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	<title>Comments on: The crashers.</title>
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	<description>one writer's daily download</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: michaelj</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147990</link>
		<dc:creator>michaelj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147990</guid>
		<description>Bassett: Exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bassett: Exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: nancy</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147925</link>
		<dc:creator>nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147925</guid>
		<description>Kevin is a very nice person, the archetype for the expression "wouldn't say 'shit' if he had a mouthful of it," and I wonder if that isn't why his Phelps coverage was so namby-pamby -- he takes people at their word, to a fault. (I read it at the time, and Alex is right -- you'd get no sense of what the guy was all about after reading it.) What I've often been puzzled by at that paper is why NOBODY SAYS ANYTHING. It's like the paper just assembles itself, day after day.

But yeah, when Fred Phelps calls you fair and balanced, you've got a big problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin is a very nice person, the archetype for the expression &#8220;wouldn&#8217;t say &#8217;shit&#8217; if he had a mouthful of it,&#8221; and I wonder if that isn&#8217;t why his Phelps coverage was so namby-pamby &#8212; he takes people at their word, to a fault. (I read it at the time, and Alex is right &#8212; you&#8217;d get no sense of what the guy was all about after reading it.) What I&#8217;ve often been puzzled by at that paper is why NOBODY SAYS ANYTHING. It&#8217;s like the paper just assembles itself, day after day.</p>
<p>But yeah, when Fred Phelps calls you fair and balanced, you&#8217;ve got a big problem.</p>
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		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147907</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147907</guid>
		<description>It was three years ago that I was being courted by the News-Sentinel for a job -- until they discovered an entry in my blog in which I had taken the paper to task for writing a damn-near fawning article about Phelps &#38; Co. This was before Phelps had been declared Public Enemy Number One for antagonizing the families of fallen soldiers. Kevin Kilbane, now features editor, made Phelps out to be a benign little old preacher with some very strong biblical objections to homosexuality. End of story. 

And Adolf Hitler was a German statesman, end of story. 

The Journal-Gazette, as we've come to expect around here, didn't drop the ball. In turn, Phelps &#38; Co. picketed in front of the newspaper office where both the J-G and the N-S are published. As the N-S reported subsequently, Phelps was there to protest the J-G's lies and to praise the N-S for being so fair and balanced.

While in town, Phelps also demonstrated in front of the Presbyterian and other churches, calling them "sodomite whorehouses" and "fag enablers," but only the J-G reported these epithets verbatim while the N-S skated around these as well as godhatesfags.com. I pointed these facts out when I was called on my blog entry, only to be told that I had scooped the paper on what it hadn't yet published. 

The only thing more gratifying than landing a much better job was seeing the N-S having to eat crow just a few short months later when Phelps started agitating at military funerals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was three years ago that I was being courted by the News-Sentinel for a job &#8212; until they discovered an entry in my blog in which I had taken the paper to task for writing a damn-near fawning article about Phelps &amp; Co. This was before Phelps had been declared Public Enemy Number One for antagonizing the families of fallen soldiers. Kevin Kilbane, now features editor, made Phelps out to be a benign little old preacher with some very strong biblical objections to homosexuality. End of story. </p>
<p>And Adolf Hitler was a German statesman, end of story. </p>
<p>The Journal-Gazette, as we&#8217;ve come to expect around here, didn&#8217;t drop the ball. In turn, Phelps &amp; Co. picketed in front of the newspaper office where both the J-G and the N-S are published. As the N-S reported subsequently, Phelps was there to protest the J-G&#8217;s lies and to praise the N-S for being so fair and balanced.</p>
<p>While in town, Phelps also demonstrated in front of the Presbyterian and other churches, calling them &#8220;sodomite whorehouses&#8221; and &#8220;fag enablers,&#8221; but only the J-G reported these epithets verbatim while the N-S skated around these as well as godhatesfags.com. I pointed these facts out when I was called on my blog entry, only to be told that I had scooped the paper on what it hadn&#8217;t yet published. </p>
<p>The only thing more gratifying than landing a much better job was seeing the N-S having to eat crow just a few short months later when Phelps started agitating at military funerals.</p>
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		<title>By: basset</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147846</link>
		<dc:creator>basset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147846</guid>
		<description>Michaelj, repeat after me...

SWIFT boat.

SHORT bus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michaelj, repeat after me&#8230;</p>
<p>SWIFT boat.</p>
<p>SHORT bus.</p>
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		<title>By: michaelj</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147837</link>
		<dc:creator>michaelj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 05:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147837</guid>
		<description>All I ever meant to say in the first place is that these Fred Phelps people are trashing funerals, figuratively walking on gravestones.  Down south, that amounts to fightin' words.

I do admit I figure what they do is the next thing to condoning or paying for swiftboating, and I think if they find a voting booth they're voting for W or Huckabee.  Once you disrespect gravesites there's no going back.

Saddam: seriously long purgatory where he has to be towell-clad with Ron Raygun. Gerry Ford? Holy shit, he pardoned the spawnof Satan to be President. Well no hedidn't actually The current sad excuse putsNixon to shame. Nixon never thought of signing orders.

Actually, these chickenhawk assholes never gave a shit for the Constitution, American Government, or a single US citizen. If nobody's watching, they probably intend taking over. They do have it all in place.

Or they're actually even too stupid for that. But they did pull the short boat thing. And Americans were that guttdom stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I ever meant to say in the first place is that these Fred Phelps people are trashing funerals, figuratively walking on gravestones.  Down south, that amounts to fightin&#8217; words.</p>
<p>I do admit I figure what they do is the next thing to condoning or paying for swiftboating, and I think if they find a voting booth they&#8217;re voting for W or Huckabee.  Once you disrespect gravesites there&#8217;s no going back.</p>
<p>Saddam: seriously long purgatory where he has to be towell-clad with Ron Raygun. Gerry Ford? Holy shit, he pardoned the spawnof Satan to be President. Well no hedidn&#8217;t actually The current sad excuse putsNixon to shame. Nixon never thought of signing orders.</p>
<p>Actually, these chickenhawk assholes never gave a shit for the Constitution, American Government, or a single US citizen. If nobody&#8217;s watching, they probably intend taking over. They do have it all in place.</p>
<p>Or they&#8217;re actually even too stupid for that. But they did pull the short boat thing. And Americans were that guttdom stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147824</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 04:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147824</guid>
		<description>Apparently, clicking over to the Fred Phelps wiki-entry, he has thirteen kids, of whom four have some semblance of rationality and perspective.  But i thought this was interesting:

Saddam Hussein

In 2003, before the fall of Saddam Hussein during the Iraq War, Phelps wrote Hussein a letter praising his regime for being, in his opinion, "the only Muslim state that allows the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to be freely and openly preached on the streets."[49] Furthermore, he stated that he would like to send a delegation to Baghdad to "preach the Gospel" for one week. Hussein granted permission, and a group of WBC congregants traveled to Iraq to protest against the U.S. The WBC members stood on the streets of Baghdad holding signs condemning Bill and Hillary Clinton and anal sex.[50] After Saddam was hanged, Phelps released a video commentary that stated that both Saddam Hussein and Gerald Ford (who had died the same week) were now in Hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently, clicking over to the Fred Phelps wiki-entry, he has thirteen kids, of whom four have some semblance of rationality and perspective.  But i thought this was interesting:</p>
<p>Saddam Hussein</p>
<p>In 2003, before the fall of Saddam Hussein during the Iraq War, Phelps wrote Hussein a letter praising his regime for being, in his opinion, &#8220;the only Muslim state that allows the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to be freely and openly preached on the streets.&#8221;[49] Furthermore, he stated that he would like to send a delegation to Baghdad to &#8220;preach the Gospel&#8221; for one week. Hussein granted permission, and a group of WBC congregants traveled to Iraq to protest against the U.S. The WBC members stood on the streets of Baghdad holding signs condemning Bill and Hillary Clinton and anal sex.[50] After Saddam was hanged, Phelps released a video commentary that stated that both Saddam Hussein and Gerald Ford (who had died the same week) were now in Hell.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147812</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 03:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147812</guid>
		<description>Speaking from the evangelical Christian corner of the comment box, i know a number of people who have tried to find out who Fred and his folk are, from conservative Baptists who wanted to figure out how to get his label revoked (short answer: you can't, even if he isn't) to liberal Protestant ecumenical bodies who wanted to keep him out of their areas.  And a few feature reporters who thought a Phelps expose would be a good career move, but who later found tracking the billable hours at KBR to be easier and more comprehendable.

As is so often the case, Wikipedia is as good as it gets, per my knowledge of efforts to unravel the paper trail from Topeka by parties noted above.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

The bottom line is that there's Fred, his wife, the nine kids he still speaks to (no one is quite certain how many they had, but more than nine), their families, and other in-laws to the tally of 70 to 90 Westboro "members," or perhaps "stockholders" in the touring company is a better term.  There's one couple and one or two others who are on board the Phelps train, but otherwise they're all family.

Like the Gennaro family, but in their own way, scarier.  I regret to confirm that Alex's point is spot on: they've been loathesome slime for years at funerals of people they liked to mock, including theater people's funerals because, well, you know . . . but until they went after military funerals, there was next to no police/security response from civic bodies.

Once they saw the TV cameras following the flag-draped coffins, the light bulb went on and the new act was rolled out, and suddenly we needed federal legislation.  Hmmmmm.

I hope it is fair for someone like me to point out that Fred Phelps represents almost nothing recognizably Baptist (i'm not one, but still), let alone Christian.  I'm not for Huckabee, but he doesn't deserve comparison to this human excretion.

Add in the fact that he "doesn't believe in" letting members marry outside of the church, which is almost entirely made up of his grandchildren and greatnieces/nephews, and you have something Sinclair Lewis couldn't have dreamed up on a bender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking from the evangelical Christian corner of the comment box, i know a number of people who have tried to find out who Fred and his folk are, from conservative Baptists who wanted to figure out how to get his label revoked (short answer: you can&#8217;t, even if he isn&#8217;t) to liberal Protestant ecumenical bodies who wanted to keep him out of their areas.  And a few feature reporters who thought a Phelps expose would be a good career move, but who later found tracking the billable hours at KBR to be easier and more comprehendable.</p>
<p>As is so often the case, Wikipedia is as good as it gets, per my knowledge of efforts to unravel the paper trail from Topeka by parties noted above.  </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church</a></p>
<p>The bottom line is that there&#8217;s Fred, his wife, the nine kids he still speaks to (no one is quite certain how many they had, but more than nine), their families, and other in-laws to the tally of 70 to 90 Westboro &#8220;members,&#8221; or perhaps &#8220;stockholders&#8221; in the touring company is a better term.  There&#8217;s one couple and one or two others who are on board the Phelps train, but otherwise they&#8217;re all family.</p>
<p>Like the Gennaro family, but in their own way, scarier.  I regret to confirm that Alex&#8217;s point is spot on: they&#8217;ve been loathesome slime for years at funerals of people they liked to mock, including theater people&#8217;s funerals because, well, you know . . . but until they went after military funerals, there was next to no police/security response from civic bodies.</p>
<p>Once they saw the TV cameras following the flag-draped coffins, the light bulb went on and the new act was rolled out, and suddenly we needed federal legislation.  Hmmmmm.</p>
<p>I hope it is fair for someone like me to point out that Fred Phelps represents almost nothing recognizably Baptist (i&#8217;m not one, but still), let alone Christian.  I&#8217;m not for Huckabee, but he doesn&#8217;t deserve comparison to this human excretion.</p>
<p>Add in the fact that he &#8220;doesn&#8217;t believe in&#8221; letting members marry outside of the church, which is almost entirely made up of his grandchildren and greatnieces/nephews, and you have something Sinclair Lewis couldn&#8217;t have dreamed up on a bender.</p>
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		<title>By: brian stouder</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147811</link>
		<dc:creator>brian stouder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 03:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147811</guid>
		<description>Michaelj, I may not subscribe to your point of view on most other things, but I am absolutely and 100% with you regarding Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and the color of truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michaelj, I may not subscribe to your point of view on most other things, but I am absolutely and 100% with you regarding Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and the color of truth.</p>
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		<title>By: michaelj</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147784</link>
		<dc:creator>michaelj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 01:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147784</guid>
		<description>It's not rotogravure, it's digital. They could have inserted more photos of little blonde kids petting lions. The press run these days takes about an hour and a half.

They could have inserted some acknowledgment the woman is assassinated. The more this story gets jerked around, the more it sounds like Michael Palin insisting the parrot is dead and John Cleese telling him it isn't. But when you're talking about sitting on nukes, maybe it's not so funny. (Which was probably Terry Gilliam's point in the first place.)

Aside from anything else, everybody involved swore there was nothing racial about the pursuit like a rabid dog of Barry Bonds (including reproters never prosecuted that leaked sequestered Grand Jury testimony) , but Roger Clemens, the Roid-Rage poster-child gets his day in court with 60 Minutes. Steroids can make you able to pitch when you're hurt. Steroids never added an inch to a homerun. These are medical facts. So for the Michelin man white pitcher rthe jury's out and for the black guy that looks just like Magic at the same age, he cheateId. I guess it was Barry that threw the splintered bat at Mike Piazza after almost killing him with a 97mph fastball about a week earlier.

It's your country. It doesn't exactly suck, but it sure as shit is not what anybody expected. if they actually read the Constitution.

I'll explain,, if you like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not rotogravure, it&#8217;s digital. They could have inserted more photos of little blonde kids petting lions. The press run these days takes about an hour and a half.</p>
<p>They could have inserted some acknowledgment the woman is assassinated. The more this story gets jerked around, the more it sounds like Michael Palin insisting the parrot is dead and John Cleese telling him it isn&#8217;t. But when you&#8217;re talking about sitting on nukes, maybe it&#8217;s not so funny. (Which was probably Terry Gilliam&#8217;s point in the first place.)</p>
<p>Aside from anything else, everybody involved swore there was nothing racial about the pursuit like a rabid dog of Barry Bonds (including reproters never prosecuted that leaked sequestered Grand Jury testimony) , but Roger Clemens, the Roid-Rage poster-child gets his day in court with 60 Minutes. Steroids can make you able to pitch when you&#8217;re hurt. Steroids never added an inch to a homerun. These are medical facts. So for the Michelin man white pitcher rthe jury&#8217;s out and for the black guy that looks just like Magic at the same age, he cheateId. I guess it was Barry that threw the splintered bat at Mike Piazza after almost killing him with a 97mph fastball about a week earlier.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s your country. It doesn&#8217;t exactly suck, but it sure as shit is not what anybody expected. if they actually read the Constitution.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll explain,, if you like.</p>
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		<title>By: michaelj</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147775</link>
		<dc:creator>michaelj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/01/05/the-crashers/#comment-147775</guid>
		<description>Nancy, you're being gracious. This was positively inexcusable. I know what it would have cost, and when this turns into some hand-wringing about seemliness I will vomit. She wasn't light or breaking news. She was the face of a world neocons don't want to face up to.

I understand the economics. So do they. They had to have a backup. They sure as hell didn't print this before she died. NFW. Whatever history says, Musharraf killed her and he did it for whatever AQKhan passes his way. That's what I think. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure I'm not.

Shipping this when the only guy in the world, who's a  catspaw for AQ Khan, that wanted her murdered, that's Bushian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nancy, you&#8217;re being gracious. This was positively inexcusable. I know what it would have cost, and when this turns into some hand-wringing about seemliness I will vomit. She wasn&#8217;t light or breaking news. She was the face of a world neocons don&#8217;t want to face up to.</p>
<p>I understand the economics. So do they. They had to have a backup. They sure as hell didn&#8217;t print this before she died. NFW. Whatever history says, Musharraf killed her and he did it for whatever AQKhan passes his way. That&#8217;s what I think. Maybe I&#8217;m wrong. I&#8217;m pretty sure I&#8217;m not.</p>
<p>Shipping this when the only guy in the world, who&#8217;s a  catspaw for AQ Khan, that wanted her murdered, that&#8217;s Bushian.</p>
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