Letters….we get letters:
Why is it that whenever there is something in the local media focusing on the Democratic party, the local media always gets “reaction” from Steve Shine? queries our correspondent. Steve Shine is the chairman of the Allen County GOP in our former place of residence, and he managed to pop up in pretty much every story about Bill Clinton’s campaign stop in Fort Wayne yesterday. She continues:
It’s not even in cases where they need some kind of “balance.” Two I remember are the changing of the party chair, and just last night, when Bill Clinton visited. In fact, the JG article doesn’t talk to anyone from the local Democratic party, but DID have several quotes from Shine.
There are several answers, which run the gamut from “Steve Shine is a shameless publicity hound” to “Fort Wayne editors live in mortal fear of having anyone complain to them over the phone,” but I think it boils down to why those kids jump up and down behind reporters doing live standups — because he can. My favorite was the sign he helpfully posed next to, proclaiming Fort Wayne to be “McCain Country.” A lie, that. Fort Wayne is Huckabee Country if it’s anything, although Huckabee might be a little too liberal for those good people. But the lesson is clear: Put a plateful of food in front of Fort Wayne news media, and they almost always eat it up.
Meanwhile, our own Brian Stouder attended the speech. Maybe he’d like to file a NN.C exclusive in the comments.
Friends, I’m sorry to say this, but I am one worn-out kitty today. Got a million things to do, and the morning has half slipped away already. Just a couple of things before I go:
I see the comments in the previous post have veered into a discussion of 19th-century men’s underwear, of all things. Before it goes any further, participants are commanded to read “A brief history of pants” from the Independent, which should answer all your questions.
I thought Obama’s speech yesterday — which I read later, and saw video excerpts of — was outstanding. Discuss.
Back later, if the caffeine ever kicks in. Until then, play nice.
UPDATE: Oh, for God’s sake. Just read the News-Sentinel’s Clinton coverage. The sidebar is about what the last-minute visit cost the city. There’s a reference to “a costly whirlwind of preparation” to get extra security, etc., arranged on the fly. The figure comes in paragraph five: “as much as $3,000.” I think it costs that much to gas up the SUVs in Kwame Kirkpatrick’s security detail.
Cathy D. said on March 19, 2008 at 9:31 am
I was there, too. Always interesting to see the mix of people that crawls out of the woodwork for these types of events. People were enthusiastic, but not manic. Maybe because Hillary buttons were two-fer-$5.
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Sue said on March 19, 2008 at 9:56 am
Let’s compromise, Nancy and call it late 18th century/early 19th century underwear. Jane Austen wrote most of her stuff in draft form prior to 1800, but much was published after 1800.
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alex said on March 19, 2008 at 10:04 am
Danny, to carry over our discussion from the last thread, I’m in complete agreement with you that things will calm down once the pre-civil rights generation dies off. And I think that’s what Obama is very deftly saying, in part.
Otherwise I vehemently disagree with your assessment of his speech as a tepid excuse for Wright’s behavior. I’d like to hear your excuse for voting GOP when the party embraced such vile personalities as Trent Lott, Tom DeLay and Dick Armey.
Edit: As for Fort Wayne being McCain Country, what a joke indeed. At least from what I’ve seen in our scary local blogosphere, they consider him a flaming liberal. I took note on last night’s 6 PM local news that Melissa Long, wife of Republican state senator David Long, seemed to dwell more heavily on the cost to taxpayers of Clinton’s visit than on any other aspect of it. Kevin Leininger in the News-Sentinel is beating the same drum today. Idjits.
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colleen said on March 19, 2008 at 10:27 am
OK, I thought the N-S story on costs was kind of ridiculous, but then thought perhaps my Liberal Bias was showing. Glad to see others had the same reaction.
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Sue said on March 19, 2008 at 10:29 am
Ok, Nancy, I’ve read the undies article and of course it took me in another direction. I’ve always wondered why any of Henry’s wives post-Anne Boleyn didn’t just cut their own heads off after having to do their wifely duty by the syphilitic old coot.
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del said on March 19, 2008 at 11:07 am
Liberal media? D’oh!! From my perspective as a non-journalist the media’s morphed into some kind of pandering sales business, giving the people what sells — lowest common denominator infotainment. Michelle Malkin — syndicated? Minority hottie scolding the liberals; something kinky and perverse is going on in this land of ours.
P.S. Congrats Nance on the DetNews ink.
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brian stouder said on March 19, 2008 at 11:11 am
I will e-mail Nance and include a few pictures; I snapped who-knows-how-many, most of which are of no use (photojournalists – you folks have a HARD job!); but maybe 2 or 3 convey the atmosphere.
While waiting to get into the building before the event, we had a few nuts/publicity-seeker types, politely (for the most part) promenading out on the sidewalk with their anti-Hillary signs, and many others with their pro-Hillary signs. A motorist drove past and shouted “OBAMA” – and I instantly laughed and waved – which caused one of the polite pro-Hillary promenaders to offer the rejoinder “Jeremiah Wright” (wasn’t sure if it was a question or a self-contained statement)
At the end of the evening, I thought “in for a penny, in for a pound”, and waited outside the Grand Wayne Center, where the police and others were gathering. There was a light rain falling, and One Summit Square kept disappearing and then reappearing, amidst the shadows and fog. (I snapped 4 or 5 shots, and could never capture the scene, despite that the camera has the capability…Pammy rolled her eyes when she saw my efforts! What I wanted to get, besides the enshrouded skyscraper, was the policeman standing in the street with a big old fashioned pipe in his mouth, that he had to keep re-lighting!)
Eventually, out came the president, and he jumped into his Chevy Envoy (one of 3, and they turned on the dome light so you could see him waving) and the Fort Wayne Police saddled up in their Impalas, and they proceeded westward on Washington boulevard…and they stopped at the red light!! The police (at least 4 cars?) had fallen behind the suv’s – and there they sat – as the next wave of traffic came up from the last red light! This got my attention (think of the folks who are tooling along, only to suddenly find themselves tangled up in a $3000 motorcade!! “Look Harriet! It’s the president!”)
Impressively enough – the police saw what was happening, and THEN hit their lights and fanned out – throwing a block on the through-traffic, while the SUVs (finally) rolled through the red light and disappeared.
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Harl Delos said on March 19, 2008 at 11:40 am
I thought Obama’s speech yesterday — which I read later, and saw video excerpts of — was outstanding. Discuss.
He has something to say, and he says it. That’s disarming in itself; most folks have something they’re scared to death of letting us hear, and they try to distract us from that.
We’re not going to notice the big oil slick in Prince William Sound? We’re not going to notice that the parking lot is empty at Harvester? We’re not going to notice that Lincoln headquarters now has a Philadelphia area code?
My real question: So how many people still think Barack Obama is a Muslim? And how many people think Barack is a Muslim who attends a nutcase Christian church?
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Harl Delos said on March 19, 2008 at 11:49 am
From my perspective as a non-journalist the media’s morphed into some kind of pandering sales business, giving the people what sells — lowest common denominator infotainment.
So WalMart is a media giant now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMLdb5VdzNs
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John Brown said on March 19, 2008 at 11:53 am
My wife, son and I went to the rally last night. I think the Indy Star got the numbers about right. They said there were 4000 people in attendance. According to the posted limits on the wall at the back of the room, the max was 2380. There was an overflow room used next to the room where the President spoke and it was almost full. Several people fainted. There were only 500 chairs available, so the rest was standing-room only.
Even though my wife and I don’t agree on very much when it comes to politics, we both felt it would be a great experience for our 16 year old son. And it was.
We explained to him that the sound bites that are played over and over again on the 24 hour news channels don’t represent what candidates and their surrogates do each and every day. For example, yesterday President Clinton made three one hour speeches, full of the kind of detail he is known for, at three different locations. Admittedly, he is a natural at this sort of thing.
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Kevin Knuth said on March 19, 2008 at 12:38 pm
As the now “former” Democratic Party Chair here in Allen County I can tell you ONE reason that Shine appears in the media so often-
News Sentinel columnist Kevin Leininger is one of Steve’s biggest supporters….and often defends and promotes the Republican party.
Hats off to Nancy though- she is right, Allen County is much more likely to support Huckabee than McCain.
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brian stouder said on March 19, 2008 at 12:53 pm
For example, yesterday President Clinton made three one hour speeches, full of the kind of detail he is known for, at three different locations.
Several times during his speech, he would say, at the start of a sentence “And thirdly….”, and I would think back, and sure enough, 4 or five minutes earlier he had opened a new theme and begun a new list.
He gives a very entertaining lecture, too; I found myself chuckling along with the crowd several times – inlcuding BEFORE the speech! His pre-event music selection was wry; one of the tunes in the loop was the Monkees’ “I’m a Believer” (Now I’m a believer; I couldn’t leave her, if I tried) and another was Every Little Thing She Does is Magic by the Police (Though I’ve tried before to tell her; Of the feelings I have for her in my heart;
Everytime that I come near her; I just lose my nerve –
As I’ve done from the start)
Quite the show, all around
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Jolene said on March 19, 2008 at 1:19 pm
I’ve wished that I’d had the opportunity to give the Clintons career advice. I’d have told Hillary to stay in the Senate and work at becoming majority leader. By most reports, she is an excellent senator–well-informed, hard-working, and able to, as they say, reach across the aisle to accomplish things. Freed of the burden to do the thing that would play well in presidential politics, she could focus on doing the right thing.
Bill was great in his role as elder statesman, pontificating knowledgeably and raising money for good causes around the world. Without his own interests at stake, he could campaign energetically and generously for other Democrats, as he did in the 2006 elections.
Now, unfortunately, their brands have become complicated. If she wins, he’ll have to be on a short leash. If she loses, she’ll still be able to return to the Senate, but it’ll take a while for her to build the sort of reputation she was well on her way to having.
Sigh. If only more people would consult me about how to live. It’d be a much better world, I’m sure.
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del said on March 19, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Brian, astute observations re: the music. I ponder political lyrics too. Remember when somebody was supposedly gonna play “American Woman” when Laura Bush walked into the GOP convention? “I don’t need your war machine . . . now get awaaaaahayy.”
Harl, the youtube story’s not about WalMart’s penis-shaped straw (uh, I think she protests a bit too much), it’s the fact that the NBC/GE affiliate, which my googling shows is part of Gray television w/ about 34 tv stations, puts it on the air.
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del said on March 19, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Jolene, I’m still kinda hurt that Hillary put her hat into the presidential ring. All those years defending her to the response that she was only posturing for a presidential bid. Uh, maybe I was naive. Oh well.
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brian stouder said on March 19, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Del – it is amazing that anyone would pick American Woman for a US political rally! There is only a very narrow range within which I even think I know anything about pop music….but I think I know that a Canadian wrote that screed, and (supposedly) he was aiming a fair amount of invective (symbolically) at the Statue of Liberty (I probably learned that from Casey Kasem…)
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John said on March 19, 2008 at 1:34 pm
re:Walmart Dicky Straws
Pause the video when the sales receipt is in focus and read what else this woman bought. Worth the price of admission.
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nancy said on March 19, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Chocolate sauce and vegetable oil? Just what are you implying, John?
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Joe K said on March 19, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Just a short observation, but isn’t Bill the ex-president?
Why do people keep calling him President?
Don’t trust him anymore now than I did back in the day.
” Not saying, Just saying”
Joe
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Harl Delos said on March 19, 2008 at 2:18 pm
If only more people would consult me about how to live. It’d be a much better world, I’m sure.
During the impeachment, my wife defended Bill. I asked her if I could run for president. She said if I did, she’d allow me all the interns that manage to trip me and beat me to the ground. So this time I’ll consult you: should I run for governor? <gd&r>
Why do people keep calling him President?
I have been advised that there’s no such thing as ex-president, ex-judge, ex-senator, ex-ambassador, by someone who formerly had served as judge and was at the time contemplating a run for senator. If you win, I asked him, do you get called Judge Senator, or Senator Judge? He told me to just be happy his name wasn’t Sergeant Shriver.
Russell Arben Fox, at In Media Res, has an interesting take on The Speech (although I’d quibble over his grammer; I learned long ago that it’s not “Reverend so-and-so”, but “Reverend Mr. so-and-so”):
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Dorothy said on March 19, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Joe, once someone is the President, he is still CALLED Mr. President for the rest of his life. I’m not sure the origin of such detail, but I know it to be a true fact.
We got to see Bill Clinton at Ohio State’s commencement last June and he was a very entertaining speaker. Self-depracating and didn’t talk too long, either. Just the right combination of features you’d want in a commencement speaker.
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Jen said on March 19, 2008 at 2:34 pm
The correct title for Bill Clinton, according to the Associated Press stylebook, would be “former President Clinton.” But in more informal terms, I think it’s also acceptable to call a former president simply “President,” which is why Abraham Lincoln is still generally called “President Lincoln” instead of “former President Lincoln,” for example.
Personally, I think ex-president has a little bit more of a negative twist to it, at least when I hear it…
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4dbirds said on March 19, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Wouldn’t Nixon be our only ex-president? As for people of the cloth, I always heard it was “The Reverend so-and-so”.
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Julie Robinson said on March 19, 2008 at 3:03 pm
You’re right about “the Rev” instead of “Rev”, 4dbirds. Maybe a grammarian can quote the rule, something about it being an honorific, perhaps? It’s the Rev so-and-so or Pastor such-and-such.
And run screaming if you ever hear that Richard Lugar is the graduation speaker. For a man of such knowledge and gravitas, he’s dull beyond belief. He must be dynamite in committee work; he certainly didn’t earn his reputation on the Senate floor.
Lugar spoke when our daughter graduated from Valpo in 2002 and he’d been deeply involved in getting nukes decommissioned in former Soviet states. Instead he spoke exclusively on the DC scandal de jour. As Sarah said, “Hello? We’ve all been taking finals and saying goodbye to our friends.”
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John said on March 19, 2008 at 3:06 pm
No implication, Nancy. Just thought the shopping list was far more fascinating than the penis straws. Goes to show the depths of my shallowness.
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Sue said on March 19, 2008 at 3:08 pm
“Reverend” vs. “The Reverend”? We just called ours Fast Eddie.
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on March 19, 2008 at 3:14 pm
“The Reverend” is an adjective, denoting a sacramental state adhering to the person in churches that claim that — so some traditions/denominations avoid the term/title altogether as they ain’t sacramental a’tall — and stylebook is : “the Reverend Mr./Dr./Ms. Name” in first usage and “Mr./Dr./Ms. Name” in subseqent.
It has devolved into a professional title separate from theological meanings, like Joe Lawyer, Esq. or Prof. Mary Scholar, so “Rev.” is often used by people who intend no worshipful overtones. But remember that many conservative Christians who know this history are sincerely put-off by the title, hence “Dr. Graham” or “Dr. Falwell,” although Billy quit complaining about being called a “reverend” years ago — his own material never uses the term.
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del said on March 19, 2008 at 3:28 pm
John, the Walmart receipt for those not as obsessive as me:
radiator, candy pops, baby wipes, Mountain Dew, Fruit Punch, chocolate syrup, vegetable oil, jr. pants, etc. Yep, Ironton WV Walmart, a snapshot of our nation. My cousin’s in town today from about 30 or so miles east of that very Walmart (Portsmouth OH). Poor area of Appalachia, which reminds me that a friend from Pittsburgh once described that city as the capitol of West Virginia . . .
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nancy said on March 19, 2008 at 3:42 pm
That has to be Ironton, Ohio, not West by-God. I had a friend, Ann, whose family moved there when we were in junior high, and I visited once. A memorable place, with a larger-than-expected black population. Everyone went to the Stay-Tan Pool, which she called the Stay-Segregated. Of course my friend, being from the big city, made all her friends in the black community. One took us to the drive-in, where we saw “Superfly.” That girl told us she’d once met Stevie Wonder, and he took her hand and said, “I bet you are a beautiful blue-eyed sister.” AND SHE HAD BLUE EYES. Proof Stevie Wonder sees beyond seeing.
What else? There were these beautiful Victorian houses along the river with high widow’s walks, so people could watch the river traffic in the evening. They’d all been hacked up into apartments by then, however.
I think Dwight Yoakum is from around there somewhere, maybe Portsmouth? Pronounced: “poresmuff.” And Ironton is “arnton.” U.S. 23 between Poresmuff and Clumbs is called the Hillbilly Highway.
That is all.
On edit: Sta-Tan lives! And without the Y.
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del said on March 19, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Superfly at the drive-in? Very cool. I had the Curtis Mayfield 45 for Fred is Dead; “We can deal with rockets and dreams . . . but reality, what does it mean ain’t nuthin’ said . . . cause Fred is Dead.” Curtis Mayfield! That is all.
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del said on March 19, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Superfly. http://youtube.com/watch?v=tjlHy52FlxA
That is all.
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nancy said on March 19, 2008 at 4:36 pm
“Freddie’s Dead,” Del. Hate to burst your bubble.
When I saw Ron O’Neal in Stratford years later, playing “Othello,” it seemed my life had closed a circle somehow, but I couldn’t quite say how.
Or maybe I just saw the same actor is two widely divergent roles. There’s always that strong possibility.
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Dexter said on March 19, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Discuss.
I was expecting a CYA speech from Obama March 18, but instead I got a great speech.
Not only did Obama hit a home run, touching all the bases, he hit a grand slam, lumping the controversy of Wright with the bitterness of an old Marine pre-baby boomer preacher, suffering still with social injustices of decades past.
Obama interwove both topics , his “they’re part of me…” and his comments on race in society,seamlessly. I was impressed…totally.
Will that speech, as Chris Matthews predicted, enter history books and/or become required reading for high school pre-graduates? Who knows? It was an artful speech, indeed.
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Kirk said on March 19, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Dwight Yoakam was born in Pikeville, Ky., but raised in Columbus, where he went to and graduated from Northland High.
Earl Thomas Conley, another country singer but not nearly so well-known, is from Portsmouth.
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Dexter said on March 19, 2008 at 5:04 pm
As one who laments how the SuperCenter Wal*Mart ran our fave grocery and hardware store out of town, I say any dagger that sticks in Wal*Mart’s side is worthy of the throwing.
I applaud the mother for pointing out the penis-shaped straws, which must have been someone’s idea of a sick joke.
The kicker is that Wal*Mart acted responsibly in pulling the penises off the shelves. It doesn’t matter if the straws were formed in China or the U.S.A., perverts abound and surround us.
So in the end, no black eye for Wal*Mart at all.
We need stronger darts to throw at them.
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Danny said on March 19, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Man, New York can NOT get a break.
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on March 19, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Re: Hillbilly Highway from Clumbs to West-b’god . . .
A lawyer entering Hades was going through check-in when he saw, to his surprise, an “Exit” sign. When Satan walked by, the lawyer asked “Excuse me, but i wasn’t expecting to see an Exit sign down here.”
Satan sighed. “No,” he replied, “originally there wasn’t supposed to be one. But all the West Virginians insisted on going home over the weekends, and there really wasn’t any stopping them.”
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Julie Robinson said on March 19, 2008 at 6:33 pm
To Jeff the mild-mannered: a Christian with a sense of humor! My new favorite website, after NNC of course, is http://www.larknews.com. Time called it the Evangelical Onion. Headlines like this: Holy Spirit Neglects to Show Up at Revival and Tshirts like Homeschooled and Wild make it just the place to go after another meeting of the whatever committee.
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on March 19, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Julie — i have it on good authority (well, ok, just a personal revelation) that there are no, repeat, no committee meetings in heaven.
Hell, on the other hand, is basically a very, very long committee meeting, that goes on forever. No motion for adjournment is recognized by the chair, but you may make a point of parliamentary procedure at any time.
Fortunately, only people who really want to attend such a meeting go, but sadly there’s always a quorum.
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joodyb said on March 19, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Julie: Here’s another one you may enjoy (if you haven’t already):
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/
it may have been cited here before long ago.
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Dexter said on March 19, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Danny:
…best laugh was courtesy of Pat Buchanan , who called the situation “governors gone wild”. And hey…I saw an exterior shot of that Manhattan Days Inn…VER-R-R-R-Y nice. Nuthin’ too good for the Lieutenant Governor’s dates!
Columnist Cindy Adams delivered a good one…she said she was at an event where she spoke with Paterson. A tray with hors d’oeuvres was being swiftly carried by a waiter and Paterson “nailed one with remarkable ease…”
Adams said she asked him how he could do that if he was blind, and Paterson said he had no trouble zeroing in on food and beautiful women.
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John said on March 19, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Del, you missed the double heaping of Pop Tarts.
I had “SuperFly” here from Netflix in January. Loved it, mainly for the soundtrack and the wardrobe though.
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del said on March 19, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Pop tarts. One day they will be illegal.
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Suzi said on March 19, 2008 at 10:16 pm
“We’re not going to notice that the parking lot is empty at Harvester?”
Last night, just west of the back end of the Grand Wayne Center where Bill Clinton spoke was a big white tent, anybody notice it? Navistar had a small celebration there for the launch of its new class 8 tractor, the LoneStar, which was designed at the FW tech center where there are still about 1,000 workers — mostly engineers. Harl, just thought you might like to know the ole Harvester still has an important presence in the Fort, though not the force it once was here.
See the new rig here: http://internationaltrucks.com/lonestar/?_oskwdid=2437229
A little blurb in the JG, too:
http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080319/BIZ/803190347
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Harl Delos said on March 19, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Suzi, as I was writing that, I was thinking about the Scout plant, which had an empty parking lot while they were still making semi tractors in New Haven. Or is that Fort Wayne? I know they fought it out in the courts for decades, but I don’t know if they’ve decided yet whether it’s New Haven or Fort Wayne. And I know that Lincoln National Life is still located in FW. The cheshire cat’s smile remains, but eventually, even it will disappear.
An interesting statement today from The Reverend Governor Huckabee, defending Wright:
There probably aren’t many neocons cutting Wright any slack, but I suspect many conservatives agree with Huck. After all, the “good neighbor policy” was framed by Herbert Hoover.
But then, I learned when I was about 8, that when you see a mud-dauber’s nest in the chicken house, you probably ought not knock it down with a baseball bat. That’s not a lesson you need to learn twice; it sticks with you.
And I suppose folks that grow up in the city didn’t have chicken houses to play in when they were kids, but they ought to be told: it’s not just wasps that get POed when you screw around with their homes.
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on March 20, 2008 at 5:41 am
Well, this conservative agrees with Huck on this one (past results do not guarantee future performance, however). But i still think “neocon”=”conservatives i don’t like” and that they just don’t really exist as a class.
Cheney-ite would be more definable and verifiable, if that’s what you mean. But Huck is correct on preaching — most preachin’ folk would not enjoy being asked to affirm verbatim transcripts of all their sermons in a body, because you find yourself rhetorically talking yourself into some odd twists and corners, and it generally isn’t done to suddenly stop and say “Hey, forget everything i’ve said the last five minutes, and let’s start over, shall we?”
I did just that once, though, and people congratulated me on it afterwards. Pastors occasionally get that kind of slack — candidates for national office, not at all. Too bad, too.
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Danny said on March 20, 2008 at 10:39 am
But Huck is correct on preaching — most preachin’ folk would not enjoy being asked to affirm verbatim transcripts of all their sermons in a body, because you find yourself rhetorically talking yourself into some odd twists and corners, and it generally isn’t done to suddenly stop and say “Hey, forget everything i’ve said the last five minutes, and let’s start over, shall we?”
Jeff I couldn’t disagree with you more on your (mis)characterization of Jeremiah Wright’s “sermons” (aka loony racists rants) as rhetorically odd twists. White people invented AIDS to kill black people. God should help us kill the white oppressors. The US of KKK.
Give me a break.
And judging by many of the comments over the last few days, maybe most of you have never attended a decent church. But they are out there. Churches where the pastor teaches through the Bible, where there aren’t sensationalist rants, where there aren’t hate-filled monologues that have nothing to do with the Faith but only represent a pastor’s personal views.
When I disagree with my pastor, it is over a minor doctrinal issue that is only in-house to Christiandom, not because he is calling for the blood of some group of people.
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Harl Delos said on March 20, 2008 at 12:11 pm
And judging by many of the comments over the last few days, maybe most of you have never attended a decent church. But they are out there. Churches where the pastor teaches through the Bible, where there aren’t sensationalist rants, where there aren’t hate-filled monologues that have nothing to do with the Faith but only represent a pastor’s personal views.
Senator McCain is pretty quiet about it, this time around, but he previously attacked fundamentalist christian pastors, the ones that proclaim that they believe every word of the Bible as “agents of intolerance”.
You decry hate-filled monologues that “only represent a pastor’s personal views”. What about hate-filled monologues that are based in a selective reading of the bible? Are they OK?
Does your pastor teach you that shaving is immoral? (Leviticus 19:27)
Lenny Bruce claimed that any pastor with two suits is a hustler, as long as there are people with none. The bible pretty much agrees with him (Job 27:16). How big is your pastor’s wardrobe?
Does your pastor point out that slavery is OK, as long your slaves are from another country? (Leviticus 25:44)
Does your pastor promote polygamy? (Exodus 21:10)
Does your pastor teach that Jesus is the son of Joseph (Matthew 1:17) or that Jesus was born of a virgin? (Matthew 1:25)
Does he warn you about wearing jeans that are made of a cotton/rayon blend? (Leviticus 19:19)
Or does he pick and choose what parts of the Bible he chooses to believe?
When I disagree with my pastor, it is over a minor doctrinal issue that is only in-house to Christiandom, not because he is calling for the blood of some group of people.
So your pastor preaches that we must not fight wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? (Romans 12:19)
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Danny said on March 20, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Harl, you’re the one who thinks it’s okay for a man to kill his ex-wife like OJ did so he can get custody of his children.
As such, you are excused from all discussions that touch even ever so lightly on Biblical interpretation, right versus wrong, morality, faith, logic, common sense and any other topic of general importance.
If we get back around to discussing music, television shows or favorite colors, you are welcome to participate.
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Harl Delos said on March 20, 2008 at 2:31 pm
As such, you are excused from all discussions that touch even ever so lightly on Biblical interpretation, right versus wrong, morality, faith, logic, common sense and any other topic of general importance.
When someone claims that he attends a decent church, and nobody else seems to, doesn’t it seem reasonable to ask what his definition of “decent” is?
So far, we know you think a father should not protect his young children from a woman who thinks it’s OK to have sex in front of them. Did you come to your idea of parental responsibility from your pastor teaching you that sending your daughters out to have sex with an unruly mob, as in the book of Lot, was a good idea?
I believe most of the people in this group have experienced decent churches, and that most who attend church regularly are currently going to a church whose pastor does “comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable” by discussing the role of faith in everyday life.
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Linda said on March 21, 2008 at 6:59 am
Harl, are there any court records, like custody fights, where he swears in court that this is what his ex did? I wouldn’t take o.j.’s word for anything, especially since he gave statements while questioned by the police that he never MET Goldman, much less killed him. If she was such a terrible wife, why didn’t he get a legal dream team to take them away before her death in a custody battle, like he assembled a dream team to save his own butt? He is a liar and a wife beater, and he is beating her again in her grave. Shame on you for giving him a chance to do that.
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Harl Delos said on March 21, 2008 at 8:45 am
Linda, there was a tape played at the murder trial, where she called 9-1-1 because he’s banging on the door and she’s trying to get him into trouble. In the background, you can hear his voice, pleading with her to stop having sex in front of the kids. It wasn’t his lawyers that introduced the tape; it was the prosecution that introduced it, trying to establish motive.
If fathers could get a fair hearing in family court, yeah, it’d be reasonable to do what you suggest, but they can’t. Things have improved, but mothers still get custody in 80% of the cases where custody is contested, and if you don’t have pretty damning evidence that the mother is unfit, the father’s lawyer will strongly resist wasting any effort even trying to get custody.
And if it’s a black father and a white mother, it’s even more lopsided.
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Linda said on March 21, 2008 at 9:33 am
Harl, the male victim card won’t cut it here. A guy with lots of financial resources can get custody of his kids. KFed just got custody of his, and Charlie Sheen did too. O.J.set out the money to get off a murder charge that even you believe he committed, so if he wanted to get custody of his kids *without* killing the ex, he could have done it. And the black/white thing? Lots of racists believe a white woman who would be with a black man is the worst kind of skank, and would have love for neither one of them. Throw in the fact that he was (once) a beloved sports figure, and he would have had plenty of ammo in family court. The only cause O.J. ever threw his resources behind was himself. He is a victim of his own stuff. His ex and her friend were his victims.
BTW, does that make it o.k. for women who believe their ex was an abusive father to flout custody decisions and kidnap their kids? Because if homicide is okey dokey, then kidnapping is just a walk in the park.
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deb said on March 26, 2008 at 7:39 am
with the silly attention still being under constant scrutney regarding rev wright, i was pleased to see somebody took the time to review and provide more about the sermon faux news introduced to the public. it just doesnt sound so radical and full of hatred or bigotry when its actually the whole picture instead of faux michael moore-esque method of taking a few words here and there with the intent to inflame white america. i look forward to research of his other speeches/sermons. no doubt they will show just how fox slices and dices things to fit what they want to present as to opposed to being FAIR AND BALANCED as they hope to convince folks!!
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/21/the-full-story-behind-rev-jeremiah-wrights-911-sermon/
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deb said on March 26, 2008 at 7:09 pm
sorry for burstin in–i was hurrying because i needed to rush off to work…i have been a fw resident for several years now. learned about nancys blog when i happened across her response to kevin leininger (the tim g copy-paste story) in the news sentinal this morning, ..felt a kindrid spirit was out there and had to check this out! have enjoyed reading some of whats written here! little old mostly liberal atheist lady..cheers!
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