<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Breaking Bad.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/</link>
	<description>one writer's daily download</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Harl Delos</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169556</link>
		<dc:creator>Harl Delos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169556</guid>
		<description>There's a fairly high suicide rate for teenagers &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; locked up, Jeff. Is there any evidence that locking teenagers up increases the suicide rate, over equally-troubled kids who aren't locked up? 

&lt;i&gt;The problem is lack of imagination, not lack of mental health care, at least in Ohio juvenile detention.&lt;/i&gt;

Perhaps in the facility you work in. That's not the rule across the board. VBH, for instance, is pretty nasty, and most of their clients are sent there by juvenile courts.

I don't mean to suggest that the kids they deal with are angels. These are some pretty nasty kids, ones that probably will spend the rest of their lives in prison - but with the proper treatment, they could do well in prison. With improper treatment, they end up raging animals. 

You know what happens when a kid gets mad and holds his breath until he turns blue? He passes out, reflexes take over, and he starts breathing again. In Columbus, a 13-year-old boy who wasn't supposed to be left alone was found dead, supposedly a suicide by drowning in 8 inches of water in a bathtub. 

Apparently in Cincinnati, a resident started choking on her own vomit, an hour after eating. They ignored her for about an hour before calling for an ambulance, and she died. 

A teenaged girl in Ohio, not to be left alone, was allowed an unsupervised smoke break. She picked up glass from a broken window and cut her wrists in a suicide attempt. It was the &lt;i&gt;next day&lt;/i&gt; before they bothered to take her to the emergency room. Why were they allowing a teenager to smoke? Why was there broken glass lying around? That's outrageous. 

Here in Ephrata, a boy was restrained because he was "unruly". It was cold, and he wanted to wear his hoody. Nope, that wasn't allowed. They put him on the floor, face down, held his arms back, and two, count 'em, two workers climbed on his back. Get off me, I can't breathe, he cried. They didn't get off, and he died. The coroner said he had an enlarged heart and that's why he died - but he had an EKG just a week earlier that showed no problems at all. The DA said it was accidental death. But the local newspaper got someone to hack into the coroner's computer, the state started investigating the coroner, the DA went in and confiscated hard drives at the newspaper. The coroner lost his primary, the DA decided against running....

That was the second death in about 3 months at Ephrata, but I don't know anyone who worked there when the first one occurred. They tell me that the administration retaliated against staffers filing incident reports of staff beating, raping, or ignoring legitimate needs of residents, or ignoring residents raping each other. 

I'm sorry if this post upset some readers. It upsets me, and I don't know the kids, I just hear story after story, second-hand. Maybe if enough people get upset, though, we can do something. This isn't something that oughta happen in America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a fairly high suicide rate for teenagers <i>not</i> locked up, Jeff. Is there any evidence that locking teenagers up increases the suicide rate, over equally-troubled kids who aren&#8217;t locked up? </p>
<p><i>The problem is lack of imagination, not lack of mental health care, at least in Ohio juvenile detention.</i></p>
<p>Perhaps in the facility you work in. That&#8217;s not the rule across the board. VBH, for instance, is pretty nasty, and most of their clients are sent there by juvenile courts.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mean to suggest that the kids they deal with are angels. These are some pretty nasty kids, ones that probably will spend the rest of their lives in prison - but with the proper treatment, they could do well in prison. With improper treatment, they end up raging animals. </p>
<p>You know what happens when a kid gets mad and holds his breath until he turns blue? He passes out, reflexes take over, and he starts breathing again. In Columbus, a 13-year-old boy who wasn&#8217;t supposed to be left alone was found dead, supposedly a suicide by drowning in 8 inches of water in a bathtub. </p>
<p>Apparently in Cincinnati, a resident started choking on her own vomit, an hour after eating. They ignored her for about an hour before calling for an ambulance, and she died. </p>
<p>A teenaged girl in Ohio, not to be left alone, was allowed an unsupervised smoke break. She picked up glass from a broken window and cut her wrists in a suicide attempt. It was the <i>next day</i> before they bothered to take her to the emergency room. Why were they allowing a teenager to smoke? Why was there broken glass lying around? That&#8217;s outrageous. </p>
<p>Here in Ephrata, a boy was restrained because he was &#8220;unruly&#8221;. It was cold, and he wanted to wear his hoody. Nope, that wasn&#8217;t allowed. They put him on the floor, face down, held his arms back, and two, count &#8216;em, two workers climbed on his back. Get off me, I can&#8217;t breathe, he cried. They didn&#8217;t get off, and he died. The coroner said he had an enlarged heart and that&#8217;s why he died - but he had an EKG just a week earlier that showed no problems at all. The DA said it was accidental death. But the local newspaper got someone to hack into the coroner&#8217;s computer, the state started investigating the coroner, the DA went in and confiscated hard drives at the newspaper. The coroner lost his primary, the DA decided against running&#8230;.</p>
<p>That was the second death in about 3 months at Ephrata, but I don&#8217;t know anyone who worked there when the first one occurred. They tell me that the administration retaliated against staffers filing incident reports of staff beating, raping, or ignoring legitimate needs of residents, or ignoring residents raping each other. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry if this post upset some readers. It upsets me, and I don&#8217;t know the kids, I just hear story after story, second-hand. Maybe if enough people get upset, though, we can do something. This isn&#8217;t something that oughta happen in America.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff (the mild-mannered one)</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169550</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff (the mild-mannered one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169550</guid>
		<description>Harl, i agree with you on adult prison mental illness, but with juveniles, whole 'nother story.  The risk is with first-timers, and that's among a population that, if we help 'em survive that first time in lock-up, rarely come back to enjoy our hospitality.  The biggest hazard isn't the ones who did something vastly felonious, but the low-level kids who just did not believe they could end up in cuffs and ankle shackles and an orange jump suit for breaking windows, cursing at cops, and having drugs in their pocket.  Suicide attempts almost vanish on second and subsequent visits to incarceration.

The problem is lack of imagination, not lack of mental health care, at least in Ohio juvenile detention.  Actual longer-term lock-up-ees, i suspect we slide into the demographics you describe for prison, but i don't work that side of the block.

On the other hand, on this side of the block, a preponderance of my kids are angry and acting out because of untreated, self-medicated, poorly managed mental health on the part of their parents/guardians.  We screen and refer for depression when we can identify it, but they're angry that their parents aren't parenting and that they can't be kids . . . my words, of course, not theirs.  The biggest frustration of working juvenile justice is the limited degree to which we can use kids' offenses to push the responsible adults to look at treatment or counseling or rehab, even when all of us up to the judge can tell the dad's (likely) drug use is the trigger for the kid's antisocial behavior (school truancy, vandalism, fighting on the bus, shoplifting).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harl, i agree with you on adult prison mental illness, but with juveniles, whole &#8216;nother story.  The risk is with first-timers, and that&#8217;s among a population that, if we help &#8216;em survive that first time in lock-up, rarely come back to enjoy our hospitality.  The biggest hazard isn&#8217;t the ones who did something vastly felonious, but the low-level kids who just did not believe they could end up in cuffs and ankle shackles and an orange jump suit for breaking windows, cursing at cops, and having drugs in their pocket.  Suicide attempts almost vanish on second and subsequent visits to incarceration.</p>
<p>The problem is lack of imagination, not lack of mental health care, at least in Ohio juvenile detention.  Actual longer-term lock-up-ees, i suspect we slide into the demographics you describe for prison, but i don&#8217;t work that side of the block.</p>
<p>On the other hand, on this side of the block, a preponderance of my kids are angry and acting out because of untreated, self-medicated, poorly managed mental health on the part of their parents/guardians.  We screen and refer for depression when we can identify it, but they&#8217;re angry that their parents aren&#8217;t parenting and that they can&#8217;t be kids . . . my words, of course, not theirs.  The biggest frustration of working juvenile justice is the limited degree to which we can use kids&#8217; offenses to push the responsible adults to look at treatment or counseling or rehab, even when all of us up to the judge can tell the dad&#8217;s (likely) drug use is the trigger for the kid&#8217;s antisocial behavior (school truancy, vandalism, fighting on the bus, shoplifting).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kafkaz</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169538</link>
		<dc:creator>Kafkaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169538</guid>
		<description>Oh, and my mom's name was Lois.  Sheesh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and my mom&#8217;s name was Lois.  Sheesh.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kafkaz</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169537</link>
		<dc:creator>Kafkaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169537</guid>
		<description>For those interested in depression, I suggest reading &lt;i&gt;The Noonday Demon:  An Atlas of Depression&lt;/i&gt; by Andrew Solomon.  Kay Redfield Jamison is another worth reading--she writes about depression, suicide, and manic-depression, and she explores the possible connections between artistic temperaments and various mental illnesses.  Not lighthearted reading, but enlightening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those interested in depression, I suggest reading <i>The Noonday Demon:  An Atlas of Depression</i> by Andrew Solomon.  Kay Redfield Jamison is another worth reading&#8211;she writes about depression, suicide, and manic-depression, and she explores the possible connections between artistic temperaments and various mental illnesses.  Not lighthearted reading, but enlightening.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Harl Delos</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169465</link>
		<dc:creator>Harl Delos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169465</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Yep. They’re in denial, denial, denial, denial . . . then it hits them, and being juveniles, their imaginations (don’t try to tell them this) are limited, and they just can’t see anything ahead of them. So then they will do whatever they can to end the humiliation of being in lock-up, which means their youthful energy and ingenuity to try to end their own lives is to be feared.&lt;/i&gt;

I don't think so, Jeff. Kids are in confinement, and under strict supervision all the time. They don't call it humiliation; they call it school. 

Some adult prisoners are psychopaths, and some are people who made bad decisions, but a majority of all adults in prison are mentally or emotionally ill. If you drink or use recreational drugs once in a while, it's to have fun, but these folks are often self-medicating for clinical depression or other mental disorders. (People hear "depression" and they think sadness, but clinical depression involves sleep disorders, digestive disorders, aches and pains, lack of concentration, memory problems, anhedonia (inability to enjoy anything), and inability to think, much more than sadness.)  And the same is true of kids. 

It's not that being locked up makes someone want to commit suicide. They commit suicide for the same reason they ended in the lockup - because they have problems between the ears. 

Those who have family members or friends commit suicide often torture themselves, wondering if he committed suicide because of something they said or did, or if they could have said something or done something to have prevented that death. They shouldn't feel guilty. Suicide is a pain-killer - and if someone is in enough pain to kill himself, anything you could possibly say or do is going to be pretty inconsequential in comparison.

Of those who are hospitalized for depression, 60% will end up being hospitalized a second time. Of those hospitalized twice, 80% will end up being hospitalized a third time. And a third of all who are hospitalized at least once for depression end up succeeding in killing themselves. (While 83% of all statistics are made up on the spot, those particular statistics came from DSM-III.)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Yep. They’re in denial, denial, denial, denial . . . then it hits them, and being juveniles, their imaginations (don’t try to tell them this) are limited, and they just can’t see anything ahead of them. So then they will do whatever they can to end the humiliation of being in lock-up, which means their youthful energy and ingenuity to try to end their own lives is to be feared.</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think so, Jeff. Kids are in confinement, and under strict supervision all the time. They don&#8217;t call it humiliation; they call it school. </p>
<p>Some adult prisoners are psychopaths, and some are people who made bad decisions, but a majority of all adults in prison are mentally or emotionally ill. If you drink or use recreational drugs once in a while, it&#8217;s to have fun, but these folks are often self-medicating for clinical depression or other mental disorders. (People hear &#8220;depression&#8221; and they think sadness, but clinical depression involves sleep disorders, digestive disorders, aches and pains, lack of concentration, memory problems, anhedonia (inability to enjoy anything), and inability to think, much more than sadness.)  And the same is true of kids. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that being locked up makes someone want to commit suicide. They commit suicide for the same reason they ended in the lockup - because they have problems between the ears. </p>
<p>Those who have family members or friends commit suicide often torture themselves, wondering if he committed suicide because of something they said or did, or if they could have said something or done something to have prevented that death. They shouldn&#8217;t feel guilty. Suicide is a pain-killer - and if someone is in enough pain to kill himself, anything you could possibly say or do is going to be pretty inconsequential in comparison.</p>
<p>Of those who are hospitalized for depression, 60% will end up being hospitalized a second time. Of those hospitalized twice, 80% will end up being hospitalized a third time. And a third of all who are hospitalized at least once for depression end up succeeding in killing themselves. (While 83% of all statistics are made up on the spot, those particular statistics came from DSM-III.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: del</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169464</link>
		<dc:creator>del</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169464</guid>
		<description>On reflection concerning the youthful detainees:  Mom always quoted Emily Dickinson as writing -- the hearts of the young are brittle as glass.  
A notion put to the test by a friend who became a widower with several kids in mid life.  Getting back into the dating scene in mid-life has the potential to open wounds that typically happen only to the young.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On reflection concerning the youthful detainees:  Mom always quoted Emily Dickinson as writing &#8212; the hearts of the young are brittle as glass.<br />
A notion put to the test by a friend who became a widower with several kids in mid life.  Getting back into the dating scene in mid-life has the potential to open wounds that typically happen only to the young.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: del</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169463</link>
		<dc:creator>del</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169463</guid>
		<description>That's interesting.  Adult imagination.  Not thought of it that way before.  Have been thinking about the wisdom that comes with aging; reconciling it with the U2 lyric (that seems to ring true to me):  "The more you see, the less you know, the less you find out as you go.  I knew much more then, than I do now."  City of Blinding Lights is the song.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s interesting.  Adult imagination.  Not thought of it that way before.  Have been thinking about the wisdom that comes with aging; reconciling it with the U2 lyric (that seems to ring true to me):  &#8220;The more you see, the less you know, the less you find out as you go.  I knew much more then, than I do now.&#8221;  City of Blinding Lights is the song.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff (the mild-mannered one)</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169462</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff (the mild-mannered one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169462</guid>
		<description>Yep.  They're in denial, denial, denial, denial . . . then it hits them, and being juveniles, their imaginations (don't try to tell them this) are limited, and they just can't see anything ahead of them.  So then they will do whatever they can to end the humiliation of being in lock-up, which means their youthful energy and ingenuity to try to end their own lives is to be feared.  Just when we think we've figured out every way they can off themselves and wall those possibilities all off, they find one we've never thought of.

Vigiliance, and compassion.  That's all we've got most days.  And an adult imagination, and the ability to share it productively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep.  They&#8217;re in denial, denial, denial, denial . . . then it hits them, and being juveniles, their imaginations (don&#8217;t try to tell them this) are limited, and they just can&#8217;t see anything ahead of them.  So then they will do whatever they can to end the humiliation of being in lock-up, which means their youthful energy and ingenuity to try to end their own lives is to be feared.  Just when we think we&#8217;ve figured out every way they can off themselves and wall those possibilities all off, they find one we&#8217;ve never thought of.</p>
<p>Vigiliance, and compassion.  That&#8217;s all we&#8217;ve got most days.  And an adult imagination, and the ability to share it productively.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: del</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169460</link>
		<dc:creator>del</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169460</guid>
		<description>My friend works at the Macomb County youth home and has had it happen on his shift.  Sad, it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My friend works at the Macomb County youth home and has had it happen on his shift.  Sad, it is.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deborah</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169459</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/2008/03/26/breaking-bad/#comment-169459</guid>
		<description>Regarding the "Juvvy" posts: I'm a graphic designer and one time while working for a large corporate architecture firm that did a lot of work on prisons, I had the occasion to do graphic design for a Juvenile detention facility. The first meeting I attended for the project I was fascinated by how much time they took up discussing the windows in the doors for views into the "cells" (no one called them that). They went on and on about the views in and my first reaction was, of course they want to be able to see in to make sure the kids are not up to trouble. Little did I know, the biggest problem they have is suicide, and they have to be able to see in to save lives. Total paradigm shift for me, that one was. I will never think about juvenile "offenders" the same, ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the &#8220;Juvvy&#8221; posts: I&#8217;m a graphic designer and one time while working for a large corporate architecture firm that did a lot of work on prisons, I had the occasion to do graphic design for a Juvenile detention facility. The first meeting I attended for the project I was fascinated by how much time they took up discussing the windows in the doors for views into the &#8220;cells&#8221; (no one called them that). They went on and on about the views in and my first reaction was, of course they want to be able to see in to make sure the kids are not up to trouble. Little did I know, the biggest problem they have is suicide, and they have to be able to see in to save lives. Total paradigm shift for me, that one was. I will never think about juvenile &#8220;offenders&#8221; the same, ever.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
