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	<title>Comments on: Still reeling.</title>
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	<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/</link>
	<description>one writer's daily download</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: LAMary</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/comment-page-1/#comment-202634</link>
		<dc:creator>LAMary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/?p=1977#comment-202634</guid>
		<description>She's only a fictional Poole. We real Pooles are much more discreet about our sexual predation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She&#8217;s only a fictional Poole. We real Pooles are much more discreet about our sexual predation.</p>
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		<title>By: Deborah</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/comment-page-1/#comment-202517</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 02:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/?p=1977#comment-202517</guid>
		<description>ugh, ick, sexual predator Lisa Druck, Riele Hunter, Alison Poole whatever her name is... what a creep. I hope she gets strung up by the press, she deserves it. Again, not excusing Edwards, he sure seems like a naive fool. I have a problem with opinion being against the straying husband solely... I think the "other woman" bears some responsibility in the immorality. She wasn't snookered, who are we kidding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ugh, ick, sexual predator Lisa Druck, Riele Hunter, Alison Poole whatever her name is&#8230; what a creep. I hope she gets strung up by the press, she deserves it. Again, not excusing Edwards, he sure seems like a naive fool. I have a problem with opinion being against the straying husband solely&#8230; I think the &#8220;other woman&#8221; bears some responsibility in the immorality. She wasn&#8217;t snookered, who are we kidding.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff (the mild-mannered one)</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/comment-page-1/#comment-202438</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff (the mild-mannered one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/?p=1977#comment-202438</guid>
		<description>Not besmirching Roy unfairly, i trust, since he said (in fuller quotation) "It is the blissful prospect of a world beyond that makes sense of their otherwise puzzling lack of interest in the world at hand and the people who live in it. "

I felt somewhat smirchified by that one.   But hey, i like cats more than dogs, too.  A trial to my friends and a bafflement to my opponents, that's my true calling I guess.

On the short list of times when i thought of it at the moment, not on the stairs heading out -- Bob Taft, trying to be funny i'm sure, saying to me "you're such a nice guy, why are you with this group causing so much trouble?"  And i grinned back to him "Governor, i'm really not such a nice guy!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not besmirching Roy unfairly, i trust, since he said (in fuller quotation) &#8220;It is the blissful prospect of a world beyond that makes sense of their otherwise puzzling lack of interest in the world at hand and the people who live in it. &#8221;</p>
<p>I felt somewhat smirchified by that one.   But hey, i like cats more than dogs, too.  A trial to my friends and a bafflement to my opponents, that&#8217;s my true calling I guess.</p>
<p>On the short list of times when i thought of it at the moment, not on the stairs heading out &#8212; Bob Taft, trying to be funny i&#8217;m sure, saying to me &#8220;you&#8217;re such a nice guy, why are you with this group causing so much trouble?&#8221;  And i grinned back to him &#8220;Governor, i&#8217;m really not such a nice guy!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: nancy</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/comment-page-1/#comment-202433</link>
		<dc:creator>nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/?p=1977#comment-202433</guid>
		<description>C'dad and Brian were talking about TBogg, not Roy. I will fight to the death anyone who besmirches Roy unfairly, because yea he is a national treasure. TBogg runs hot and warm, but I love his doggies, which is why I linked.

Both confine their contempt to religious conservatives who have blogs, columns and/or high-profile sinecures at right-wing think tanks and say stupid things in connection with them, not the ones out doing actual work in the world. I defy anyone to read The Corner for a week or two and make the case these people are truly interested in the world outside of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C&#8217;dad and Brian were talking about TBogg, not Roy. I will fight to the death anyone who besmirches Roy unfairly, because yea he is a national treasure. TBogg runs hot and warm, but I love his doggies, which is why I linked.</p>
<p>Both confine their contempt to religious conservatives who have blogs, columns and/or high-profile sinecures at right-wing think tanks and say stupid things in connection with them, not the ones out doing actual work in the world. I defy anyone to read The Corner for a week or two and make the case these people are truly interested in the world outside of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff (the mild-mannered one)</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/comment-page-1/#comment-202431</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff (the mild-mannered one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/?p=1977#comment-202431</guid>
		<description>Coozledad --

A few months back, we had a community meeting to discuss college/village (aka town/gown) issues.  A speaker offered the concern that as an Arab-Turkish-woman of color bisexual person, it was deeply oppressive to her that the four corners of the main intersection were churches, and she had to pass under their steeples' collective shadows (no, a phallic comment was not made, but i think we were all waiting for one. too obvious, maybe.)

I observed in response that of the four churches, three affirmed GLBT rights, ordained persons regardless of orientation, and two offered marriage/union ceremonies to all and sundry.  She replied that she knew all that, but their presence was still oppressive for all that.  Much head nodding ensued.

Yeah.  Last New Year's Eve, literally after dark, work crews moved in and at the cost of over a million dollars removed the three massive granite panels with the name, seal, and date of founding of the local college, replacing them with an identical version in every respect except removing one word from the inscription "A Christian College of Liberal Arts."  One guess what word was absent, and hint -- it weren't "liberal."  The seal is staying, for now, even though it is an open book.  Fortunately, the pages of the book in the official design are blank (cue irony machine for bubbles and confetti).

As for Roy -- my life is largely lived in three spheres:  homelessness assistance (transitional housing), juvenile justice, and Scouting (cue the boo hiss from the left, yeah, yeah).  We get our funding cut to Scouting every year as the Big Brothers chapter in our area has had not one but two major molestation cases.   I don't agree entirely with the national Scouting policy, but the main point is that they screen, train, and restrict adult leadership like crazy these days, and reserve the right to be silly and capricious in saying "no," including not screening only for convictions (which is all background checks and fingerprinting gets you).  Many of us are working to get Scouting to a more reasoned, nuanced policy -- much like the American Red Cross blood donor policy needs changing, but i still give every 60 days (11 gallons and counting), and don't "not give" because their policy is stupid.

My point to Roy and any and all is this -- in all three areas i work in, religious conservatives, by which i mean people usually waaaay more conservative than me, work their tails off helping people face to face, with little or no direct proselytism going on at all.  I live in the aforementioned college town where all my friends and neighbors actually spent time wondering what we should "do" about the fact that four churches (three hugely liberal) sit on our main intersection.

Yes, my town went all eight precincts for Obama last primary day, when the other 150 in the county went for Hillary.  Yeah.  Anyhow, when Roy says "their otherwise puzzling lack of interest in the world at hand and the people who live in it," he has NO idea what he's talking about.  None.  If only liberals came and got their hands dirty and their hearts broken working with the last and the least out on our potholed and corrupt streets, but they don't much.

TheoCons i've learned to work with because that's who shows up.  And it does rub off a bit.  A lesson for liberals, perhaps?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coozledad &#8211;</p>
<p>A few months back, we had a community meeting to discuss college/village (aka town/gown) issues.  A speaker offered the concern that as an Arab-Turkish-woman of color bisexual person, it was deeply oppressive to her that the four corners of the main intersection were churches, and she had to pass under their steeples&#8217; collective shadows (no, a phallic comment was not made, but i think we were all waiting for one. too obvious, maybe.)</p>
<p>I observed in response that of the four churches, three affirmed GLBT rights, ordained persons regardless of orientation, and two offered marriage/union ceremonies to all and sundry.  She replied that she knew all that, but their presence was still oppressive for all that.  Much head nodding ensued.</p>
<p>Yeah.  Last New Year&#8217;s Eve, literally after dark, work crews moved in and at the cost of over a million dollars removed the three massive granite panels with the name, seal, and date of founding of the local college, replacing them with an identical version in every respect except removing one word from the inscription &#8220;A Christian College of Liberal Arts.&#8221;  One guess what word was absent, and hint &#8212; it weren&#8217;t &#8220;liberal.&#8221;  The seal is staying, for now, even though it is an open book.  Fortunately, the pages of the book in the official design are blank (cue irony machine for bubbles and confetti).</p>
<p>As for Roy &#8212; my life is largely lived in three spheres:  homelessness assistance (transitional housing), juvenile justice, and Scouting (cue the boo hiss from the left, yeah, yeah).  We get our funding cut to Scouting every year as the Big Brothers chapter in our area has had not one but two major molestation cases.   I don&#8217;t agree entirely with the national Scouting policy, but the main point is that they screen, train, and restrict adult leadership like crazy these days, and reserve the right to be silly and capricious in saying &#8220;no,&#8221; including not screening only for convictions (which is all background checks and fingerprinting gets you).  Many of us are working to get Scouting to a more reasoned, nuanced policy &#8212; much like the American Red Cross blood donor policy needs changing, but i still give every 60 days (11 gallons and counting), and don&#8217;t &#8220;not give&#8221; because their policy is stupid.</p>
<p>My point to Roy and any and all is this &#8212; in all three areas i work in, religious conservatives, by which i mean people usually waaaay more conservative than me, work their tails off helping people face to face, with little or no direct proselytism going on at all.  I live in the aforementioned college town where all my friends and neighbors actually spent time wondering what we should &#8220;do&#8221; about the fact that four churches (three hugely liberal) sit on our main intersection.</p>
<p>Yes, my town went all eight precincts for Obama last primary day, when the other 150 in the county went for Hillary.  Yeah.  Anyhow, when Roy says &#8220;their otherwise puzzling lack of interest in the world at hand and the people who live in it,&#8221; he has NO idea what he&#8217;s talking about.  None.  If only liberals came and got their hands dirty and their hearts broken working with the last and the least out on our potholed and corrupt streets, but they don&#8217;t much.</p>
<p>TheoCons i&#8217;ve learned to work with because that&#8217;s who shows up.  And it does rub off a bit.  A lesson for liberals, perhaps?</p>
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		<title>By: coozledad</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/comment-page-1/#comment-202427</link>
		<dc:creator>coozledad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/?p=1977#comment-202427</guid>
		<description>I don't know what prejudices you're referring to Brian, but if It's the one most Democrats and a plurality of the nation share against the people who've been dicking the country over for the past eight years, then those are prejudices I think should be promoted. TBogg is a check on folks like the above quoted Tom York, who is stunned that Democrats would consider remanding Bush and Cheney to the Hague for war crimes.
 I'm prejudiced against Republicans alright: in the middle of ginning up that war with Iraq, Bush, et. al, made sure his media painted Democrats as a fifth column, working directly with Sadam Hussein and Bin Ladin to destroy your right to own a Hummer. I read Republican editorials in the South calling for us to be shipped  en masse to jail for refusing to equate Bush with the US itself. Unlike Jonah Goldberg, TBogg seems to know which party affiliation is more likely to incline one to prance around in a little black uniform and scream about defilement of the blood. I distinctly remember hearing Republicans bitching that Tom Daschle didn't "get his hands in some a' that powder", and Republican humorist and peroxide spider monkey Ann Coulter calling for us to "invade and convert" Arab countries"(Most likely with the exception of Bush's beloved Saudi Arabia).
 I would fight for a Republican's right to vote, but I'm not willing to venture that they're capable of humor, at least any variety other than removing the top from a salt shaker. There's just a defensiveness and smoldering contempt that seems to be rotting in them, and they clearly don't give a shit about voter enfranchisement.
 We were out registering voters yesterday. We were wearing our Obama T-shirts, but we were registering everybody. That's what Democrats do. We had finally found a grocery store whose manager would let us enable people to participate in the process. About half an hour in, some shapeless sack with a Colonel Sanders beard climbs out of his Escalade and walks toward us shaking his head. "I ain't votin' for that...Obama" (At least I see that the New South can claim some measure of restraint among its racist garbage). A moment later the manager walked outside and told us people were complaining, and we had to leave.
 There's your Republican, and there's why I read TBogg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what prejudices you&#8217;re referring to Brian, but if It&#8217;s the one most Democrats and a plurality of the nation share against the people who&#8217;ve been dicking the country over for the past eight years, then those are prejudices I think should be promoted. TBogg is a check on folks like the above quoted Tom York, who is stunned that Democrats would consider remanding Bush and Cheney to the Hague for war crimes.<br />
 I&#8217;m prejudiced against Republicans alright: in the middle of ginning up that war with Iraq, Bush, et. al, made sure his media painted Democrats as a fifth column, working directly with Sadam Hussein and Bin Ladin to destroy your right to own a Hummer. I read Republican editorials in the South calling for us to be shipped  en masse to jail for refusing to equate Bush with the US itself. Unlike Jonah Goldberg, TBogg seems to know which party affiliation is more likely to incline one to prance around in a little black uniform and scream about defilement of the blood. I distinctly remember hearing Republicans bitching that Tom Daschle didn&#8217;t &#8220;get his hands in some a&#8217; that powder&#8221;, and Republican humorist and peroxide spider monkey Ann Coulter calling for us to &#8220;invade and convert&#8221; Arab countries&#8221;(Most likely with the exception of Bush&#8217;s beloved Saudi Arabia).<br />
 I would fight for a Republican&#8217;s right to vote, but I&#8217;m not willing to venture that they&#8217;re capable of humor, at least any variety other than removing the top from a salt shaker. There&#8217;s just a defensiveness and smoldering contempt that seems to be rotting in them, and they clearly don&#8217;t give a shit about voter enfranchisement.<br />
 We were out registering voters yesterday. We were wearing our Obama T-shirts, but we were registering everybody. That&#8217;s what Democrats do. We had finally found a grocery store whose manager would let us enable people to participate in the process. About half an hour in, some shapeless sack with a Colonel Sanders beard climbs out of his Escalade and walks toward us shaking his head. &#8220;I ain&#8217;t votin&#8217; for that&#8230;Obama&#8221; (At least I see that the New South can claim some measure of restraint among its racist garbage). A moment later the manager walked outside and told us people were complaining, and we had to leave.<br />
 There&#8217;s your Republican, and there&#8217;s why I read TBogg.</p>
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		<title>By: brian stouder</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/comment-page-1/#comment-202362</link>
		<dc:creator>brian stouder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 02:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/?p=1977#comment-202362</guid>
		<description>btw - I clicked over to tbogg, and a bog it is. If I was going onto an internet diet, sites like Tom Boggioni's would be the first to go; although I suppose his site is probably pleasant enough if one shares his prejudices 

http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom_Boggioni/649173376</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>btw - I clicked over to tbogg, and a bog it is. If I was going onto an internet diet, sites like Tom Boggioni&#8217;s would be the first to go; although I suppose his site is probably pleasant enough if one shares his prejudices </p>
<p><a href="http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom_Boggioni/649173376" rel="nofollow">http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom_Boggioni/649173376</a></p>
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		<title>By: brian stouder</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/comment-page-1/#comment-202361</link>
		<dc:creator>brian stouder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 00:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/?p=1977#comment-202361</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This is not excusing John Edwards one bit, but it does answer the “what kind of woman” question.&lt;/i&gt;

Good heavens! "what kind of woman"? 

Jay McInerney writes a novel that, according to Wikipedia is "narrated in the first-person from the point of view of Alison Poole, &lt;i&gt;an ostensibly jaded, cocaine-addled, sexually voracious 20-year old.&lt;/i&gt;" - and then lets it be known in interviews that he based the character on his ex-girlfriend (Rielle Hunter).....and we are to accept this, as fact?

"What kind of man" is Jay McInerney? (one assumes he's the sort of bastard that believes in keeping score, and evening that score at every opportunity).

I think the key here is that his character is  "&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;20 year old&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;" and not a 42 year old....plus the Edwards campaign certainly had access to Google/Wikipedia when they paid this woman more than $100,000 - surely they knew who this person is now - moreso than an imaginative ex-boyfriend from two decades ago.

Anyway - &lt;b&gt;moe&lt;/b&gt; - the most recent thing I read that touched on the legal aftermath of the Lincoln assassination was an enthralling  (but dark) book called American Brutus by Michael Kauffman, which concludes with an interesting look at the military tribunal that tried, convicted, and condemned to death the four co-conspirators they captured, including Mary Suratt, who ran the boarding house where Booth and his colleagues often met. The footnotes were quite as captivating as the text...one of the US Army generals on the tribunal was Lew Wallace (of Crawfordsville, Indiana!) - the guy who would write Ben Hur - and he spent his time lobbying Judge Holt for appointment to &lt;i&gt;another&lt;/i&gt; military tribunal, the one they eventually tried Henry Wirz (the commandant of the hellish Andersonville POW camp). Wallace succeeded in that effort, and ultimately served on that tribunal and condemned Wirz to the gallows, too.   

As a slight digression on this discussion of legal matters and due process - there is a &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;WONDERFUL&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; book about Mary Lincoln, by Jean Baker (who is marvelous!), which opened my eyes to the legitimacy of "Women's Studies".  Amongst many other fascinating things, I learned how it came to be that Mary Lincoln was declared legally insane. In a nutshell (so to speak), Mary returned to her home in Chicago from shopping - it was maybe 11 in the morning - and the sheriff was waiting for her, along with an attorney with a writ, and she was taken downtown. There, an already-empaneled jury - all men - was awaiting her arrival, along with a defense attorney already selected for her by her son Robert - who had of course &lt;i&gt;set the whole thing in motion&lt;/i&gt;!

She was tried, and the jury retired, and then returned their finding that she WAS insane, and that she be immediately sent to a sanitarium.....


So that the "due process" that the widow of the martyred President of the United States received; the woman who sat right next to him, holding his hand when a bullet was blasted into his brain....the "due process" including being arrested, tried, convicted, sentenced, and hauled away -  began before lunch, and was ended before sundown!!     

I never, ever let pass casual remarks about how Mary Lincoln was "crazy"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This is not excusing John Edwards one bit, but it does answer the “what kind of woman” question.</i></p>
<p>Good heavens! &#8220;what kind of woman&#8221;? </p>
<p>Jay McInerney writes a novel that, according to Wikipedia is &#8220;narrated in the first-person from the point of view of Alison Poole, <i>an ostensibly jaded, cocaine-addled, sexually voracious 20-year old.</i>&#8221; - and then lets it be known in interviews that he based the character on his ex-girlfriend (Rielle Hunter)&#8230;..and we are to accept this, as fact?</p>
<p>&#8220;What kind of man&#8221; is Jay McInerney? (one assumes he&#8217;s the sort of bastard that believes in keeping score, and evening that score at every opportunity).</p>
<p>I think the key here is that his character is  &#8220;<i><b>20 year old</b></i>&#8221; and not a 42 year old&#8230;.plus the Edwards campaign certainly had access to Google/Wikipedia when they paid this woman more than $100,000 - surely they knew who this person is now - moreso than an imaginative ex-boyfriend from two decades ago.</p>
<p>Anyway - <b>moe</b> - the most recent thing I read that touched on the legal aftermath of the Lincoln assassination was an enthralling  (but dark) book called American Brutus by Michael Kauffman, which concludes with an interesting look at the military tribunal that tried, convicted, and condemned to death the four co-conspirators they captured, including Mary Suratt, who ran the boarding house where Booth and his colleagues often met. The footnotes were quite as captivating as the text&#8230;one of the US Army generals on the tribunal was Lew Wallace (of Crawfordsville, Indiana!) - the guy who would write Ben Hur - and he spent his time lobbying Judge Holt for appointment to <i>another</i> military tribunal, the one they eventually tried Henry Wirz (the commandant of the hellish Andersonville POW camp). Wallace succeeded in that effort, and ultimately served on that tribunal and condemned Wirz to the gallows, too.   </p>
<p>As a slight digression on this discussion of legal matters and due process - there is a <i><b>WONDERFUL</b></i> book about Mary Lincoln, by Jean Baker (who is marvelous!), which opened my eyes to the legitimacy of &#8220;Women&#8217;s Studies&#8221;.  Amongst many other fascinating things, I learned how it came to be that Mary Lincoln was declared legally insane. In a nutshell (so to speak), Mary returned to her home in Chicago from shopping - it was maybe 11 in the morning - and the sheriff was waiting for her, along with an attorney with a writ, and she was taken downtown. There, an already-empaneled jury - all men - was awaiting her arrival, along with a defense attorney already selected for her by her son Robert - who had of course <i>set the whole thing in motion</i>!</p>
<p>She was tried, and the jury retired, and then returned their finding that she WAS insane, and that she be immediately sent to a sanitarium&#8230;..</p>
<p>So that the &#8220;due process&#8221; that the widow of the martyred President of the United States received; the woman who sat right next to him, holding his hand when a bullet was blasted into his brain&#8230;.the &#8220;due process&#8221; including being arrested, tried, convicted, sentenced, and hauled away -  began before lunch, and was ended before sundown!!     </p>
<p>I never, ever let pass casual remarks about how Mary Lincoln was &#8220;crazy&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: LA Mary</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/comment-page-1/#comment-202360</link>
		<dc:creator>LA Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 00:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/?p=1977#comment-202360</guid>
		<description>Correction..it wasn't in Less Than Zero. It was in The Story of My Life and her character's name was Allison Poole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction..it wasn&#8217;t in Less Than Zero. It was in The Story of My Life and her character&#8217;s name was Allison Poole.</p>
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		<title>By: LA Mary</title>
		<link>http://nancynall.com/2008/08/08/still-reeling/comment-page-1/#comment-202359</link>
		<dc:creator>LA Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 23:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nancynall.com/?p=1977#comment-202359</guid>
		<description>The woman in question was formerly known as Lisa Druck and was portrayed in Less Than Zero as a sexual predator. This is not excusing John Edwards one bit, but it does answer the "what kind of woman" question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The woman in question was formerly known as Lisa Druck and was portrayed in Less Than Zero as a sexual predator. This is not excusing John Edwards one bit, but it does answer the &#8220;what kind of woman&#8221; question.</p>
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