The silent minority.

Wednesday, September 10th, 2008

Parking garage, Wayne State University.

Posted at 1:33 pm in iPhone |

80 responses to “The silent minority.”

moe99 said on September 10, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Man rubbed with spices, other beaten with sausage

A stranger broke into a home east of Fresno, rubbed spices on the body of one of two men as they slept and used an 8-inch sausage to whack the other man in the face and head before he fled, Fresno County sheriff’s deputies said Saturday.

By The Fresno Bee

FRESNO, Calif. — A stranger broke into a home east of Fresno, rubbed spices on the body of one of two men as they slept and used an 8-inch sausage to whack the other man in the face and head before he fled, Fresno County sheriff’s deputies said Saturday.

Lt. Ian Burrimond said a suspect was found in a nearby field and taken into custody. Deputies, he said, had no problem linking a suspect to the crime: “It seems the guy ran out of the house wearing only a T-shirt, boxer shorts and socks, leaving behind his wallet with his ID.”

Arrested was a 22-year-old Fresno resident.

The spices and the sausage, Burrimond said, were taken from the victims’ kitchen.

He said money that had been taken was recovered, but the sausage was discarded and eaten by a dog. “That’s right, the dog ate the weapon,” Burrimond said.

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coozledad said on September 10, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Chairman of local Young Republicans?
Nah… He would have eaten the sausage.

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Catherine said on September 10, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Is there a connection between the pagan bumpersticker and the sausage beating?

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coozledad said on September 10, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Insofar as sausage beating seems to constitute the framework of our national discourse, I’d have to say there’s at least a tenuous…er, link.

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Danny said on September 10, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Loved this from CNN. Looks like a few of the folks around here who jumped the gun on false stories about Sarah Palin could get a job in Atlanta.

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alex said on September 10, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Loved your pat reason why you oppose gay marriage, Danny. Was hoping to hear you elaborate on/defend it.

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coozledad said on September 10, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Danny: We knew that had to be photoshopped. The woman in the picture was, after all, wearing an American flag.
(HT The Poor Man)

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brian stouder said on September 10, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Well Danny, the Fox News fever swamp is a nice enough place, if you already share their lock-step villification of everyone who isn’t a right-thinking Republican.

Carl Cameron leaps to mind; an admitted liar, who was just “joking” when he posted totally fabricated “quotes” from John Kerry 4 years ago, onto the Fox News Website.

Cameron’s and Fox’s brand of Invented News reared its head again last weekend, with their newest Big Lie , regarding the garbage-bags-full-of-flags – and of course the Pallid and Palin travelling road show latched right onto it and literally trotted the stuff onto the stage.

See – I was TRYIN’ to stay off politics today, but this prevailing “destroy the village in order to save it” mentality of Fox/Hannity/Limbaugh/McCain Campaign manager Rick Davis (he’s the ferret-faced bastard who declared that the camapign won’t be about issues [if he can help it!], but instead “composite personalities”) is just wearing me out!

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brian stouder said on September 10, 2008 at 3:56 pm
So, what did they call a “cootie catcher” in YOUR school? I remember seeing them (35+ years ago!), but I don’t know that they had a name

http://www.scrapsoflife-pam.blogspot.com/

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alex said on September 10, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Don’t remember cootie catchers, just cooties. I think there was even a board game at one point called Cooties.

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Connie said on September 10, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Gosh Brian, we called them cootie catchers.

As to bumper stickers, my husband took this pic of one of my co-worker’s car and its (yes, liberal) bumper stickers. http://elmores.net/round-here/comments.php?id=1446_0_1_0_C

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moe99 said on September 10, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Danny,

The photo was old news as of last week. So far Palin’s other news (troopergate, banning books, taking unearned per diems, bridge to Nowhere among others) seen to be holding up just fine.

ps: CBS just took down a McCain web ad it admitted was misleading. Nice going McCain campaign!!!
http://tinyurl.com/69sxmx

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brian stouder said on September 10, 2008 at 4:20 pm
See, that’s interesting, Connie.

Who maintains “the knowledge”? Shelby comes home with various sayings and playground games and ‘repeat after me’ jokes….and “cootie catchers”! (Thinking back, it was the girls who ran those things back when I was in grade school; so I guess I wouldn’t have known their name then, either)

A sort of micro-anthropology project exists, right there on the playground!

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brian stouder said on September 10, 2008 at 4:24 pm
So far Palin’s other news…. seem to be holding up just fine.

so, she’s apparently going to finally, like, take a question or two from a (properly deferential) journalist in the next day or two, right?

Hmmmmm. Well, it’s only been two weeks since she was sprung upon us; and we’ve got 8 whole weeks more before we vote….and she may well allow herself to answer a few more questions from other (properly deferential) journalists…so that seems well enough…..right??

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LAMary said on September 10, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Alex, the game was Cootie and you had to add legs and antennae and things as you progressed. I never learned how to play but I did like assembling the cootie. Having a lot of older siblings gave me a big assortment of stuff with crucial missing parts or instructions that still could be used for entertainment. I also had four erector sets and four mega Lincoln logs sets. And four boys’ bikes.

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alex said on September 10, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Yeah, it’s coming back to me now, Mary. Kind of an insect Mr. Potatohead. So did the schoolyard term “cooties” come from the game or did the game take its name from the schoolyard?

My generation was the one on the cusp of “cooties” and “grody,” but oddly enough the former had the greatest staying power.

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Danny said on September 10, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Danny, [insert snide comment]…

Danny, [insert stupid and snide comment]…

Danny, [insert even stupider and snider comment]…

You guys aren’t looking so fresh right about now. You know, there is one alternative you could exercise for writer’s block. Don’t write. You might save a few of us some eye-rolling.

Oh, and how’s that immediately debunked banned book list working out for ya, Moe?

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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 10, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I had heard that nitrites in processed meat were bad for you.

That bumper sticker is charming on so many levels — ain’t that America! A newt in every pot, a faith for every purpose under Heaven.

Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland just announced we are all hosed, state budget wise, details to come. Sadly, i’m safe because i’m a part-time, non-benefit, professional position under grant auspices. People who actually have real jobs are the ones who’ll take the hit. Problem: Medicaid, pure and simple. Can’t afford to reduce qualified recipients, can’t afford to keep paying the state part of the bill, can’t afford to stop taking as much federal match as we can leverage.

I’m still waiting for any argument other than single payer that won’t gum up the current decomposing system worse — our health care is still excellent on the surface, but we’ll start seeing decreasing health quality/lifespan outcomes regionally in ten years or so based on what’s going on right now. If you ever hear anyone say “no Republican is for single-payer national health insurance” feel free to mention my name.

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coozledad said on September 10, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Did they really mean body lice? It certainly wasn’t out of the question at my first elementary school. There were a lot of sharecropper and farm kids who were teeming with the things. My head was always nearly shaven as a precaution. After integration, we were moved to a slightly less rural school, and the cooties lapsed into metaphor.

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alex said on September 10, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Fresher than your tired argument that gay marriage will compel schoolteachers to talk dirty to children, Danny.

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moe99 said on September 10, 2008 at 5:08 pm
http://tinyurl.com/5hc8bc

Jeffrey Rosen in TNR on Joe Biden’s constitutional underpinnings. Not your usual surficial journalism.

Oh, and Danny, I offered my mea culpas for the list of library already on the list. You can take off the hobnailed boots.

But the abc report makes it clear today that Palin did inquire about banning books, not once but several times, and that she tried to fire the librarian who was reinstated after the town went ballistic in its wake. The librarian told the abc reporter she resigned after two years because of the rough treatment she suffered under Palin:

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=6937

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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 10, 2008 at 5:30 pm
I hope you all will forgive me if i say this just doesn’t give me enough to throw Mama Palin off the train: “The Wasilla librarian, Mary Ellen Edmonds, left two years later, and according to friends, because it was just too hard working for Sarah Palin. In a conversation with me yesterday, the librarian said she could not recall Palin ever asking for specific book titles to be removed from the shelves, but she acknowledge her treatment by Palin had been very rough – “I just don’t care to revisit that time of my life,” she told me. ”

If that’s the heart of the librarian case against Palin, i’d move on (whoops) to other more substantive issues to cut into her appeal with voters. Oh, and by the way, “shooting wolves from airplanes is mean” isn’t gonna do it, either.

Obama had some good lines on fully funding “No Child” and how to fix the broken parts of education policy today in Virginia, but he stepped on his own dialogue — you had to drill down a ways to read the meat of the proposals, past the clutter of empty lipstick tubes.

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coozledad said on September 10, 2008 at 5:44 pm
You reckon any of that sex-for-oil trading took place in Alaska?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/washington/11royalty.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

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LAMary said on September 10, 2008 at 5:48 pm
As coozledad said, cooties were lice. I don’t remember anyone having lice when I was a kid, but my grandmother would tell me tales of checking for lice back in my parents’ childhood.
We had a particularly cruel game of “Holly’s cooties” when I was a kid. If a girl we deemed uncool or something touched us we would say get all dramatic and find someone else to touch and pass along Holly’s cooties. I still carry guilt for participating in that stuff back then. Holly was a perfectly nice person and we made her miserable, I’m sure.

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Catherine said on September 10, 2008 at 5:53 pm
The PC term for those charming devices now is “fortune teller.” And they can be used educationally. Really — not just for pagans anymore.

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Danny said on September 10, 2008 at 5:54 pm
If that’s the heart of the librarian case against Palin, i’d move on (whoops) to other more substantive issues to cut into her appeal with voters. Oh, and by the way, “shooting wolves from airplanes is mean” isn’t gonna do it, either.

True dat, Jeff. Funny how she apparently has like 80% approval rating in her home state, but so far, all we’re hearing are those who had problems with Sarah Palin. And a few people here are buying it. Tsk tsk.

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Jolene said on September 10, 2008 at 5:59 pm
“If you ever hear anyone say “no Republican is for single-payer national health insurance” feel free to mention my name.”

You are, in fact, the only Republican that I’ve heard support single-payer insurance. I hope you’ll nake your views known to the people who lead your party.

The new ABC story on book-banning may not warrant throwing Palin off the train, but I don’t find it encouraging wrt the way she deals with conflicting views.

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LAMary said on September 10, 2008 at 5:59 pm
I don’t have problems with her. I just disagree with pretty much everything she stands for. I might agree wtih her on something like pepsi vs coke, or Beatles vs Stones. Don’t know. But politically? I am solidly opposed to her positions.

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Danny said on September 10, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Mary, just so you know, I respect your opposition very much.

And the same goes for Jolene.

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LAMary said on September 10, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Danny, I take the Alaskan’s approval of their governor with a grain of salt. She did sustain the dependence of that state on federal funding. Alaskans get about 506 per capita, making them number one for “pork.” Arizona is dead last. You’d think, with all that oil wealth, they wouldn’t need as much help as say, Michigan, but it just works out that way.
Also, lots of politicians are beloved in their state, but the rest of the country can’t figure out why. Think Lester Maddox, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond, Robert Byrd, Jim Trafficante.

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Danny said on September 10, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Mmm. I going swimming, but I leave you with this (thanks to Nancy and Jeff).

“Pagans for Palin: A Newt (Gingrich) in Every Pot”

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moe99 said on September 10, 2008 at 7:23 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xbn_AXlaeY

And TPM is selling lipstick on a pig tshirts w/ McCain/Palin on them if you are interested:

mens:
http://www.zazzle.com/lipstick_on_a_pig_shirt-235338639751924903

womens:
http://www.zazzle.com/lipstick_on_a_pig_shirt-235924034487961908

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Dwight said on September 10, 2008 at 7:26 pm
The politics of patronage jobs are a sucktastic opportunity for things to go wrong, no matter how you look at it.

The best you can hope for is the “new administration” to be straight forward and say “Dudes and dudettes… Resignations, please and thank you.”

Whether you are talking about small town librarians or federally appointed attorneys, the grey area is an invitation to backlash.

And then there are those cases where instead of saying, “Dude, resignation,” some despicable folks in positions of power might be inclined to totally ruin a good public servant’s reputation in order to maintain appearances.

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brian stouder said on September 10, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Elitist Alert!! Elitist Alert!!

Look who we have coming to IPFW for their Omnibus Lecture Series

http://www.omnibuslectures.org/

John L. Esposito September 24 “The United States and the Muslim World: What the Next President Should Know”

Eugene Robinson October 21 “Politics and the Nation”

David Baldacci November 14 “From Thriller to Tradition: Balancing Between Deadly Suspense and Wistful Southern Fiction”

Hal Holbrook January 29 “Mark Twain Tonight!”

Bruce Feiler March 26 “Moses in America”

Sandra Day O’Connor April 23 “…And Justice for All”

In addition to being a welcome injection of cultural elitism, the venue is a very large, comfortable new auditorium – and the price is FREE!

I anticipate attending every one of them, and it makes me feel all uppity just thinkin’ about it!!!

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Jolene said on September 10, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Looks like a great series, Brian. Gene Robinson is one of my favorite Posties, so it’d be fun to see him up close and personal.

Just read this interesting snippet from washingtonpost.com.

Data from the latest Washington Post/ABC poll backs up this strategy. Forty-eight percent of those sampled said the candidates’ position on issues is their main concern while 37 percent said the personal qualities of the candidates are their prime focus. Of the 48 percent who are “issue” voters, they go for Obama by a 56 percent to 37 margin; the 37 percent of “personality” voters opt for McCain by a similar 56 percent to 39 percent margin.

The math is simple. For McCain to win, he must make this a personality-driven contest — presenting the choice between a war hero who has sacrificed untold amounts for his country and an untested senator about whom the American public still has questions.

Everything the McCain campaign will do between now and Nov. 4 will be designed to drive that contrast. How effective it is will likely determine the identity of the next president of the United States.

In other words, don’t count on any hard-hitting interviews w/ Sarah Palin, but do plan on more fake outrage designed to make Sen. Obama seem unacceptable.

In fact, this evening I was listening to a report on the demographic changes that make turning Virginia blue a possibility on The News Hour. After describing those shifts, the narrator said, “But the Republicans are fighting back.” Then they showed a training meeting for Republican party campaign workers. The person leading the meeting said something like, “When you hear what he stands for, what his proposals are, where he comes from . . . that’s not America. That’s not Virginia.”

Mona Charen would be proud.

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Jolene said on September 10, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Danny, thanks for the compliment. I do like a good argument!

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nancy said on September 10, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Wow, Dwight. Do you really think a librarian should be a patronage job? Police chief, maybe. But if there’s one place we should all agree we can accommodate everyone and don’t need to have politics influencing administration, I’d hope it would be the library.

But we have librarians reading this; I’m sure they can defend themselves.

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ellen said on September 10, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Brian, don’t miss John Esposito. I have seen him lecture. Not on this topic, but on other Middle Eastern-related subjects. So informative. Please report back on Sep 25.

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moe99 said on September 10, 2008 at 9:32 pm
For those babies who have everything:

http://www.heelarious.com/index.php

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brian stouder said on September 10, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Ellen – consider it “Done”!

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alex said on September 10, 2008 at 10:08 pm
I didn’t even know what lice were when I learned cooties. Impetigo and perhaps some of the other filthborn childhood afflictions like gummy bear periodontitis, but not lice.

I understand booty cooties to be fecal particulate matter emanating from one’s person sans gas forced air.

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joodyb said on September 10, 2008 at 10:55 pm
omg, moe. those are the silliest things i’ve seen in a while.

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brian stouder said on September 10, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Well bassett, I ain’t gonna do no politics tomorrow; September 11 will be a time to stand down, think back, inhale, contemplate, and look ahead.

I am braced for whatever scurrilous attack on Obama’s patriotism/religous faith/history of service comes down the pike (whether via chain e-mail or errant Fox News errand boys, or the mcCain campaign itself)….even as I hope it doesn’t come.

As we head for the weekend, the Republican party’s Vice Presidential cipher is finally ready for her media debutante ball, which will almost certainly provide fodder enough to keep us occupied for at least another week….and then there will only be 7 weeks left in this election cycle (and thank Heaven for that!)

Don’t know about y’all, but I have had several interesting (and more than a few somewhat troubling) conversations with people about the presidential race, including at work and amongst family. My usual tactic is to smile or laugh when a particularly egregious thing is said, and I have a ready stock of work-friendly and family-friendly retorts.

But in the past week I have noticed that these genial rejoinders are being set aside by my disagreeable peeps, and I’m getting more insistance from them to move past that….which I will do with family or friends, but much less so with co-workers (including my boss, the owner of the company!)

By way of saying – is this happening to y’all, too? I’m assuming all of us, here, are known to the people in our lives as politically opinionated, and therefore go-to people when there are Big Questions to discuss.

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Suzi said on September 10, 2008 at 11:39 pm
“Looks like a few of the folks around here who jumped the gun on false stories about Sarah Palin could get a job in Atlanta.”
Well, then, Bazooka Barbie outa apply herself, she’s got the same sorta skill set. You know, the bridge thing and all.
“Oh, and how’s that immediately debunked banned book list working out for ya, Moe?”
It was never about the damned list. It was about badgering the librarian to capitulate to the Christian warrior’s directives. But you already knew that just as the whole world knew what was meant by the lipstick comment.

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Suzi said on September 10, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Overheard a discussion about a lawn jockey installation whilst dining at the Redwood this evening!

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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 11, 2008 at 12:02 am
Walk away from the lawn jockey, and keep your hands where we can see them. Just walk away . . .

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moe99 said on September 11, 2008 at 12:37 am
joodyb: everytime I think I’ve seen it all, I haven’t. And to think that the inventors and marketers of high heels for babies live in Seattle. Oh, the shame!

And speaking of shame, finally Giblets from Fafblog tells us the reality of Sarah Palin:
http://fafblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah-palin-sarah-palin-sarah-palin.html

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Dexter said on September 11, 2008 at 12:41 am
“Cootie” was my fave childhood game other than chess. It’s explained, just click on the bold type.
That sex and favors game between Interior and the oil companies story infuriated me. Brian Williams, who is the best of the nightly anchors, gave it a prominent seg on Nightly News. It happened 2 and a half years ago, they now say, but we know it has always gone on , the filthy bastards.

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MaryC said on September 11, 2008 at 1:39 am
For those babies who have everything:
http://www.heelarious.com/index.php

Those are Daisy Duck heels! Tell me they’re not exactly the same as the ones that Daisy’s wearing here.

My first heels were white and I got them for my 12th birthday. I was so proud. The first time I wore them was at my aunt’s garden party. My heels gradually sank into the lawn, but that couldn’t take away the thrill.

Kind of sad to think that now that thrill is behind you when you’re only 1.

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Calliope said on September 11, 2008 at 2:21 am
Jeff said:

“I hope you all will forgive me if i say this just doesn’t give me enough to throw Mama Palin off the train: “The Wasilla librarian, Mary Ellen Edmonds, left two years later, and according to friends, because it was just too hard working for Sarah Palin. In a conversation with me yesterday, the librarian said she could not recall Palin ever asking for specific book titles to be removed from the shelves, but she acknowledge her treatment by Palin had been very rough – “I just don’t care to revisit that time of my life,” she told me. ”

Nice sidestepping of the real issue, Jeff. Palin asked the librarian 3 different times, once at a city council meeting, if she would ban books if Palin asked her to. Each time the librarian refused. Palin fired the librarian. There was a huge uproar in the town, and a committee formed to recall Palin. Palin quickly rehired the librarian. THEN Palin was hard to work for and the librarian eventually quit.

Palin doesn’t deny asking about banning books: she couldn’t possibly, there were too many witnesses. Instead she tried to excuse it initially as “an example of discussions with city employees about following her administration’s agenda.”

And the agenda was banning books! What other agenda could that question possibly fall under?

Later Palin said the questions were “rhetorical”. Yeah, right.

Yes, the banned book list was not Palin’s, as I pointed out at the time. That doesn’t change the fact that Palin wanted to ban books. You don’t repeatedly ask the librarian about banning books, and then fire the librarian when she refuses, if you don’t intend to ban some books. Thanks to Edmonds’ backbone, and to the uproar from the local townspeople when she was fired, Palin just didn’t get the chance to ban any books.

It’s a disgraceful episode, and highly indicative of her character, or lack thereof. Jeff, you and Danny may be just fine with a little book banning, but I’m not.

As for the books she may have wanted to ban, I found this bit from the ABC report Moe linked to very interesting:

“ROSS: Around the time Palin became mayor, the church and other conservative Christians began to focus on certain books available in local stores and in the town library, including one called “Go Ask Alice,” and another one written by a local pastor, Howard Bess, called “Pastor, I am Gay.” –end excerpt from ABC report.

“Go Ask Alice” is a classic cautionary tale about drug addiction. It’s been around since I was in high school. Given Alaska’s meth and oxycontin addiction problems, the townspeople should be happy it’s in the library.

Moe, I’m sorry I didn’t speak up more about this when I pointed out the list was false, but I had to leave to take care of personal stuff.

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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 11, 2008 at 7:15 am
She didn’t ban any books. “Books she may have wanted to ban” is the kind of formulation that makes me start to ignore the whole discussion, along with “basically says that.”

If you work in public life — civic, schools — people ask about this. Often. If the question is “what is the procedure for determining what books are bought, which get taken out of circulation, which go behind the desk,” the librarians and their civic employers had better have answers — and whether Palin was “tough on” her or not (what does that actually mean? we’re not told, she “doesn’t want to revisit that period” though she’s fine with implying Palin did something wrong without backing it up), the fact is the book “Pastor, I am Gay” never left the shelves.

Some years back, i walked from the 25 cent cart by the library door to the counter. I had “Mystery Train” by Greil Marcus in my hand. They were happy to sell it to me, and pointed out the “Withdrawn from circulation” stamp. I explained that i was disturbed that there was no longer going to be this book available for checkout here anymore, and how did they decide it was not part of “the collection” anymore anyhow?

It was a long twenty minutes, and an increasing icy sense of “who does he think he is from the two, then three, then four staff who gathered around as i just asked “i simply would like to know how this book got pulled,” given that i knew for language (f-word, repeatedly), it wouldn’t be in the high school library, and teenagers ought to be able to find this book and learn some real history of America that might grab them where they lived.

Their repeated “librarians repeatedly review each selection for relevance and significance” didn’t satisfy me, and no one wanted to explain anything about “Mystery Train” per se. Finally the head librarian came down from her office, picked up the discarded volume, twisted the spine into view, looked up at me, and said “no one had ever checked that book out in two years, which is our standard view to deaccessioning.” I asked if that would apply to “Boswell’s Life of Johnson” and she said “that is a judgment call by the library staff.”

I thanked her for the explanation, paid my quarter, and took the forlorn unread “Mystery Train” home with me, using it as a second copy that i force on , i mean loan to friends.

And i think it is fair to ask librarians what their policies are for what books go out on shelves and which do not, and i’ve noticed myself they don’t like answering those questions either way. Hence, the story so far leaves me leaving the benefit of the doubt with Mayor Palin.

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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 11, 2008 at 7:20 am
But if you think i’m purely in the tank for any Republican for any reason, i get my best shots off on President Bush today in our county paper; the counterbalance is that the other two politicans named in the story are a prominent R and a prominent D in the state (some editor took the designators off, darn it; that was part of my point).

http://www.newarkadvocate.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080911/OPINION02/809110342/0/OPINION03

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Suzi said on September 11, 2008 at 7:55 am
Jeff, your story surprises me, I’m a librarian, earned my MLS just a few years ago. So what library was this where the librarians were so cagey about their collection? Library school tends to weed out the censors and free speech opponents and pubic librarians tend to be very proud of their uncensored collections — they’re the first to defend the public’s right to read. Harry Potter was huge when I was in school and my classmates at Allen Co Public were constantly fending off the hysterical churchy control freaks who wanted it withdrawn from the collection.

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crinoidgirl said on September 11, 2008 at 8:30 am
Gina Gershon does Sarah Palin:

(language slightly NSFW)

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/61410aa4ff

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Connie said on September 11, 2008 at 8:32 am
I deal regularly with people who want books out of the library. This summer it was all books about gays and homosexuality. Those complaining could not really give a reason, just kept saying but they are for and about (shudder) homosexuals. I think they were shocked by the dozens of people from the glbt community that showed up to oppose them at a board meeting.

My favorite occurs regularly: I can’t believe you let my child take this out of the library, it is completely inappropriate for our child and our family. My response: “good for you Mom, I wish every parent would check out what their kid brings home from the library to see if it is appropriate for their family values.”

And Jeff, your story surprises me as well. OTOH we are not a warehouse for books no one reads. We can get the Life of Johnson for you from somewhere else if we don’t have it. Your local public library is a very different animal from a university library, and they just aren’t going to keep stuff forever.

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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 11, 2008 at 8:35 am
Sure, and i was sadly ok with the answer once i got it (two years untouched — but does that mean only checked out? what about reshelving? guess that’s the “librarian review” part, i hope, if it often is found on a table at 9 pm). This was Newark, Ohio Public Library, under a chief now gone, and she was fine — it was the tone of “what do you mean you want to know why we make decisions?” The more they wanted me to “trust them” the more i wanted to hear a specific answer, which Chief Wilma gave me, and i went away with the book in my hand.

I still think every library in the land should have a copy of “Mystery Train,” but YMMV!

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MichaelG said on September 11, 2008 at 8:55 am
Jeff, are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really not understand the point? Please go back and reread Calliope’s comment. It is very clear. It’s OK if you move your lips while you do so. We won’t tell anyone.

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alex said on September 11, 2008 at 10:53 am
Jeff, your anecdote notwithstanding, I still find it surprising that you could blithely dismiss any concerns regarding such questionable conduct on Palin’s part.

A mayor trying to micro-manage a librarian, even hypothetically asking what the response would be to a request to ban books, is unsettling to say the least.

Suzi, I enjoyed my dinner at the Redwood last night, you eavesdropper, you!

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Danny said on September 11, 2008 at 11:04 am
…It’s OK if you move your lips while you do so. We won’t tell anyone.

Michael, having had the opportunity to read Jeff’s post over the years I feel like we have all had an adequate chance to get to know him and his high level of intelligence and general good temperment.

We cannot say the same of you. And when you post stuff like that, you usually end up apologizing anyway. Why not short-circuit the process and just not post at all? Newcomers will not know you have a tendency to act like an idiot. We won’t tell anyone.

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Danny said on September 11, 2008 at 11:14 am
Alex, maybe look at it this way:

A bunch of “fact checking” journalists and Democratic operatives descend on Alaska and we have a week of exaggerations and just plain old made up stuff. So far, the most damning thing is that Palin apparently pissed off a librarian in some vague way that the librarian cannot be bothered to revisit and describe. No books were banned and the question could have very well been a question of protocol or something which she was asking because she was getting pressure from community members at large.

The level of concern being expressed here is not commensurate with the situation.

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alex said on September 11, 2008 at 11:51 am
Danny–

Yes, we have gotten to know Jeff over the years for his intelligence and good nature. And we’ve gotten to know you for your head games. I’ve never had a real discussion with you about anything because you’re always playing bait and switch, always changing the subject and schmoozing others with sweet nothings in order to come across as the goody-goody boy after you’ve thrown a firebomb at someone else.

Actually, those of us who are regulars here have gotten to know MichaelG over the years as another deeply intelligent and good-natured person. And I’m sure there are many who feel the same toward me, in contradiction to your assertion the other day that there are dozens here who regularly disagree with me. If so I’ve never seen it. There’s you. And there’s “mark” who I think very well may be you too.

So cut the “we” crap in your harsh attacks on others who post here.

Edit: And as regards the library issue, you’re just regurgitating right-wing spin. Why don’t you put a cork in it? Newcomers won’t have to know you have a tendency to be a malicious boor. We won’t tell.

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moe99 said on September 11, 2008 at 11:55 am
Danny,
It’s more than the libararian and you know it. Today comes the story that Palin is pushing earmarks of $3.2 million to fund research into seal DNA
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/so_what_does_alaskas_millions.php

In the Wall Street Journal we learn that Palin’s one time ethics advisor told her and her husband to apologize for troopergate:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122109403841221751.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

Edited to add:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_09/014661.php

Palin got caught quoting Westbrook Pegler yesterday.

Former AZ Senator Dennis Deconcini talks about McCain’s judgment problem:
http://www.washingtonindependent.com/5491/former-ariz-senator-mccain-has-a-judgment-problem

And the Washington Post editorial page, lately a doormat for the Republicans, even takes some time to chastise McCain for his loss of honor in conducting his campaign this week:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/10/AR2008091003116_pf.html

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Danny said on September 11, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Okay, Alex, you really deserve this and you’ve been asking for it a long time, so here goes.

I can’t believe you have the audacity to put forth the bullshit argument that I do not post substantively toward you or others here.

1) When I posted at some length why I was against same-sex marriage, you derided it as a “pat” answer.

2) When I responded at great length as to why I generally vote conservative, you accused me of “yanking” everyone’s chain and of being a troll.

3) When I told you a few months ago that I was starting to like Obama and might consider voting for him, ot again you trotted that very fresh assertion of being a troll. In fact, that word troll seems to be one of your favorite, lazy-assed indictments.

4) When you said the other day that you were upset because hetero’s here can talk in explicitly sexual terms (I do not), but you cannot, that was just stupid. You are one of the posters here who talks in the most in sexually explicit terms. Hell, I remember a few years ago when you posted in charming homo-lite terms how you really liked penis. And no one said anything to you. So yeah, give me a break if we can’t see how persecuted you are.

5) When I had an extended absence at the end of last summer (not even lurking, jc could check the logs) and people here expressed that they were missing me and my voice, you responded with derision and vitriol. Yeah, out of curiosity I checked when I came back.

6) Now when I respond to an extremely stupid personal attack by Michael aimed towards Jeff, you blow off the obvious and decide you simply must challenge me?

What is it with you? Why every time I post to someone else do you decide it is your cue to rebutt me and attack me? Your raison d’etre. I’ll tell you why.

It’s because you dislike me and my intelligence and the facility with which I dipsatch with disingenous arguments which sometimes include yours. I mean, you should go back and read some of the stupid crap you have posted over the years. Either you are smoking too much dope or you are just stupid, naturally and have no choice in that matter either.

My opinion is that you are mean, but very lazy. Mean because you were subjected to bullying growing up and you are going to damn well make sure all pay for it who even disagree with you in the slightest. Lazy because you are very good personal friends with Nancy and you know she has your back and you can say anything you damn well please. And especially because you are gay.

And gawd, how you work the gay angle. You prance around here like you are the patron-saint of stupid, glib comments. If you were any more gayly glib and disinterested you’d vanish into an existential miasma of absurdity. And all of this affectation of the mean, stupid queen role is really very tiresome. (NOTE TO ALL: I am NOT slandering Alex’s or anyone’s sexual orientation. I am calling him on his tiresome act, though).

I see through it. I hope others will too. Most of all, I hope you will see it, be a man, and stop it.

I don’t dislike you. Just how you act towards me.

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beb said on September 11, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Sadly, Jeff, you really do come across as in the tank for Gov. Palin. She asked three times about removing books from the library. Once might be merely a procedural question. Twice might be bad memory requiring a repeat of the question. But three times followed by trying to fire the librarian makes it clear that Palin’s goal was to ban books. And thiis hang wringing about how she didn’t *actually* ban any books misses the point. It’s like the King in Beckett who asked why someone couldn’t do something about his Beckett problem and when the man ends up men complains that he never meant for him to be murdered.

In any case Palin has other, more serous problems. What was going to be a bipartisan investigation into allegations that Palin fired someone because they wouldn’t fire her ex- brother- in- law suddenly looks like a major cover-up. Seven staff members have decided to refuse to testify. There’s been an effrt to dismiss the current investgator, presumably to be replaced by one more pliant to Palin. And reporters have uncovered that during the divorce proceedings between Palin’s sister and state trooper Wooten that Judge admonished Palin to stop denigating the man. This was in 2005, if I recall correctly, before she was governor. Normally judges don’t say things like that. It had to be outrageous behavior for him to put something like that on the public record. She needs to come clean about this. If she can explain all this she needs to do that now. She needs to show that she isn’t, as this trooper-gate thing suggests, a mean, hateful, vindictive SOB.

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alex said on September 11, 2008 at 1:08 pm
You still haven’t responded to my very legitimate question as regards gay marriage, Danny.

You haven’t explained how gay marriage would compel a sexualized discussion of marriage in front of schoolchildren, when sex is not and has never been a part of the discussion of straight couples under the same circumstances. Isn’t it simple enough to say that people are together because of love? You claim that this is your only objection to gay marriage, never mind that it’s a discredited old argument.

I suspect your animus runs much deeper, and the above screed certainly bears it out.

It would be pointless to address your multiple mischaracterizations of our past interactions blow by blow, so I won’t bother.

However, I intend to refrain from making personal attacks on others who post here and I’d like you to commit to doing the same.

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coozledad said on September 11, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Danny: A tire iron’s still a tire iron, whether you wrap it in duct tape or not. I envy your confidence in your higher motives. You say you’re not a racist- how did you manage that one growing up in the US? I wish I could say that with confidence: I always thought it was like alcoholism-a thing you had to tear yourself away from on a daily basis, especially when you’re raised in the grip of its tawdry little catechisms. Being a recovering racist myself, I hear a little of that telltale provincial vanity. But I’m often wrong about these things.
And if you have to highlight someone’s otherness, or feel offended by their sexuality, it’s advisable to avoid slurs that moot your assertions of indifference. Take it from an old hater.

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moe99 said on September 11, 2008 at 1:20 pm
I’m not gonna mess up the perfectly lovely travel discussion we are having in the other thread, but I do think this is a new one on Palin:

While Palin was mayor, her town charged rape victims for rape kits.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-10-rape-exams_N.htm

Nice.

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Danny said on September 11, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I suspect your animus runs much deeper, and the above certainly bears it out.

Alex, you should stop being suspicious. I have a lot of compassion and empathy towards people, regardless of sexual orientation. A good highschool aquaintance of mine committed suicide last year trying to come to terms with his sexuality. It really affected me. One of our best friends at church is dealing with the same issue. And I am not trying to “pray the gay away.” I’m searching my soul and trying to be a friend while trying to also align it with my faith. Very difficult for me.

As regards the schoolchildren, I think the sexual complexities and possible pairings of our multi-faceted society are best left for middle-school and later. I do not want to leave it to chance that discussions of a sexual nature will not take place if we start throwing same-sex marriage into the mix at elementary school. I truly belive ther is a good chance that it would lead to that.

As for personal attacks, I’m very tired of that happening too. My tone is not always the best, but it is extremely disingenuous of a few of you to have trouble with me when it is obvious there are more egregious things being spewed here by certian liberals. And that, unchecked and unmentioned by you, provokes me somewhat. Frankly, I am disappointed.

Whenever a conservative voice has gotten out of line here, I have called them on it. I did so with Terry Walter a few months back when he said some unkind stuff (to Nancy, I think) and I’ve done it before that. Why don’t you liberals police your own and be honest?

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alex said on September 11, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Why don’t you liberals police your own and be honest?

The “you liberals” thing is the wrong approach, Danny. It’s an immediate turn-off. And it’s exactly why I’ve long had the impression that you’re here to pick fights.

Thank you for responding to my earlier question a little more thoughtfully.

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Danny said on September 11, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Alex, “you liberals” is not half as much of a turn-off as being called a “racist” or “homophobe” or a “knuckle-dragging cousinfuck” or a “mouth-breather” or being told that the “gloves are off” and “fuck” all the conservatives.

How can you ignore all of that and berate me? Seriously. How? I’d really like an answer.

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moe99 said on September 11, 2008 at 2:00 pm
http://tinyurl.com/5vn8s2

a recent McCain interview by a reporter in Maine.

and the sale of the luxury jet on ebay? Eh, not so much:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/10/palins-ebay-story-what-ac_n_125361.html

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alex said on September 11, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Context, Danny, is everything.

I would never pop in on a right-leaning blog and presume to lecture “you conservatives” about anything, and I certainly wouldn’t borrow from tired boilerplate propaganda in doing so.

I tend to avoid them because I find they’re full of inflammatory language and offensive smears directed toward the values and ideas that I cherish.

So why do you go looking for trouble?

EDIT: I’m much more inclined to discuss politics with people of opposing viewpoints who aren’t antagonistic. This is why I’ve never come to blows with Jeff. I believe he genuinely understands my frustrations with the Republicans’ political tactics, and in turn I have a better understanding of where he’s coming from.

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Danny said on September 11, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Alex, for one thing, Nancy and others here have ascribed to moderate views. Even you have expressed that you consider yourself moderate. So though things have been overwhelmingly biased in the liberal direction recently, that has not always been the case.

Secondly, when I have left well enough alone, people lamented that my voice was gone. I think Nancy said that it was all “echoey.” Basically a big liberal agreement-fest. So I feel there is ample evidence to say that I am appreciated here and not viewed as someone who is “just looking for trouble.”

Lastly, many here have said that this blog was characterized by reasonable people expressing reasonable opinions and having some fun. Not by rabid politics slanted to one side or the other and endless spewing of vitriol. That has changed recently, due largely to the closeness of the election and to a number of newcomers who have decidedly liberal views seem not to repsect the views of others.

So I should just get lost because there are a few here who do not respect my values and ideas? So much so that they chose to engage in the worst kind of name-calling? And then it is reasonable for you to berate me? Is that your answer?

Nancy…anyone?

EDIT: ANTAGONISTIC? Alex, I repeat is being called a “racist” or “homophobe” or a “knuckle-dragging cousinfuck” or a “mouth-breather” or being told that the “gloves are off” and “fuck” all the conservatives NOT antagonistic? This isn’t boilerplate. This is being said here. Plus, every time you turn around, you are calling ME a troll and saying that I just mess with people’s heads. Wow.

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alex said on September 11, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Danny, instead of imploring “you liberals” to be honest, take your own advice.

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nancy said on September 11, 2008 at 3:46 pm
OK, you guys. Stop. You’re talking past one another, and I don’t want to lose either one, so let’s just call a truce on this thread, eh?

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Suzi said on September 11, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Hi Alex! I thought that might be you, what synchronicity! And a lovely mushroom roll, too! Cheers!
We were remembering and drinking a toast to our lovely neighbor Dick Gibson, who was laid to rest to today. Retired architect and lovley man!
Had a pint of Bass at O’s, too, for good measure and saw our Mayor visiting his constituents.

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moe99 said on September 11, 2008 at 5:43 pm
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5778018&page=1

the first part of Palin’s abc interview and she says we might have to go to war with Russia! Bombs away!!!

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alex said on September 11, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Suzi, we of course were bitching about the current state of the union, as I’m sure you got more than an earful of. Now that the confederacy has so many dunces planted in the northern tier (Alaska, for God’s sake), and so many Yankees have gone to the sun belt, politics sure are a friggin’ mess, eh?

But whatever happens in November, we can always count on good food and drink on the cheap—and lively conversation—in our favorite taverns. And expert librarianship in one of the most stellar facilities in the nation, one so valued by the public that even the anti-taxation dittoheads couldn’t get a remonstrance to stop its expansion.

There’s always been a progressive backbone to this town, and I’m proud to be descended from that old guard. Noblesse oblige isn’t dead. It’s just under ideological attack at times by the ideological descendants of the people who burned Lincoln’s effigy in front of the courthouse all those years ago.

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brian stouder said on September 11, 2008 at 9:24 pm
ideological descendants of the people who burned Lincoln’s effigy in front of the courthouse all those years ago.

and they were Democrats, who voted for their military hero/presidential nominee (Little Mac); Allen County was solid for him against Lincoln!

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Suzi said on September 14, 2008 at 5:38 pm
There’s always been a progressive backbone to this town, and I’m proud to be descended from that old guard.

ME TOO!!!!

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