Comments on: iLike. http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ilike one writer's daily download Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:15:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: brettvk http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/#comment-321252 brettvk Sun, 31 Jan 2010 09:43:56 +0000 http://nancynall.com/?p=5282#comment-321252 Mosef -- I will give you the honesty you claim to crave. I don't concur with the assertion that a blastocyst, embryo or fetus is a human being, but even if that were true, the rights of the female adult human over her own body supersedes any right to life that the fetal human has. Yes, even if she carelessly or stupidly gets pregnant, even if, according to you or anyone else, she can afford to go through the pregnancy and raise the child afterwards. A person's right over their own body is absolute; you cannot compel another human being to sacrifice so much as a pint of blood to support another human's life. I have no obligation to donate any part of my body for any length of time, even if my refusal costs another person their life. Neither the state nor other people can with justice command a female human to donate her body as life support to another human for nine months against her will. No, fetal children are not a special form of humans that have more rights than adult humans. Mosef — I will give you the honesty you claim to crave. I don’t concur with the assertion that a blastocyst, embryo or fetus is a human being, but even if that were true, the rights of the female adult human over her own body supersedes any right to life that the fetal human has. Yes, even if she carelessly or stupidly gets pregnant, even if, according to you or anyone else, she can afford to go through the pregnancy and raise the child afterwards. A person’s right over their own body is absolute; you cannot compel another human being to sacrifice so much as a pint of blood to support another human’s life. I have no obligation to donate any part of my body for any length of time, even if my refusal costs another person their life. Neither the state nor other people can with justice command a female human to donate her body as life support to another human for nine months against her will. No, fetal children are not a special form of humans that have more rights than adult humans.

]]> By: 4dbirds http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/#comment-321158 4dbirds Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:55:36 +0000 http://nancynall.com/?p=5282#comment-321158 I had an abortion and thank goodness it was legal and safe. Afterward since I wasn't pregnant and didn't have a dependant, I was eligible to join the army and from that service, I gained an education and valuable work experience that has made me a productive member of society ever since. Also, by having a clean, safe abortion my fertility was intact and I was able to have my children when I wanted them. I have never regretted that decision, I don't have any remorse, guilt or shame and I am not scarred mentally or physically from it. I had an abortion and thank goodness it was legal and safe. Afterward since I wasn’t pregnant and didn’t have a dependant, I was eligible to join the army and from that service, I gained an education and valuable work experience that has made me a productive member of society ever since. Also, by having a clean, safe abortion my fertility was intact and I was able to have my children when I wanted them. I have never regretted that decision, I don’t have any remorse, guilt or shame and I am not scarred mentally or physically from it.

]]> By: coozledad http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/#comment-321150 coozledad Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:43:19 +0000 http://nancynall.com/?p=5282#comment-321150 "The death penalty doesn't even begin to match the evil that is abortion" This is their argument in a nutshell. It's fine to kill sentient beings. They're messy and they take up valuable parking space at the mall. You can even whoop and cheer as your elected secretive farter turns a significant portion of the population of Iraq (and quite a few US military personnel)into a hill of smoking meat, or applies electrodes to a few genitals, or pretend-drowns a few Arabs. And embryo Jesus will approve. Embryo Jesus is also fond of pro-lifers who spray them witch-churches with automatic weapons, or kill folks at family planning clinics. Don't cross embryo Jesus. He's a killa. But once that baby is born, it's a worthless drag on taxpayin' Americans and it's that damn baby's fault for taking out an adjustable rate mortgage and siphoning off our hard earned wealth with food stamps or government mandated healthcare. “The death penalty doesn’t even begin to match the evil that is abortion” This is their argument in a nutshell. It’s fine to kill sentient beings. They’re messy and they take up valuable parking space at the mall. You can even whoop and cheer as your elected secretive farter turns a significant portion of the population of Iraq (and quite a few US military personnel)into a hill of smoking meat, or applies electrodes to a few genitals, or pretend-drowns a few Arabs. And embryo Jesus will approve. Embryo Jesus is also fond of pro-lifers who spray them witch-churches with automatic weapons, or kill folks at family planning clinics. Don’t cross embryo Jesus. He’s a killa.
But once that baby is born, it’s a worthless drag on taxpayin’ Americans and it’s that damn baby’s fault for taking out an adjustable rate mortgage and siphoning off our hard earned wealth with food stamps or government mandated healthcare.

]]> By: Sue http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/#comment-321149 Sue Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:39:20 +0000 http://nancynall.com/?p=5282#comment-321149 You know who could have knocked us all flat on this? Ashley Morris, he whose sister turned out to be his mother; he who came from a less-than-stellar family and became a college professor. Wonder what f-bomb-laden comment he would make on this? You know who could have knocked us all flat on this? Ashley Morris, he whose sister turned out to be his mother; he who came from a less-than-stellar family and became a college professor. Wonder what f-bomb-laden comment he would make on this?

]]> By: Jeff Borden http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/#comment-321148 Jeff Borden Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:30:49 +0000 http://nancynall.com/?p=5282#comment-321148 There's always something of a "through the lookingglass" element to so much of our debates on abortion. Take the sanctimonious sack of shit Andre Brauer, who is seeking to replace another sanctimonious sack of shit, Mark Sanford, as governor of our most laughable state (sorry, Texas), South Carolina. Mr. Brauer, of course, is vehemently pro-life, which is fine, but a few days ago he equated government assistance to the poor with feeding stray animals. This in a state where the unemployment rate is near 12% and almost 60% of kids receive subsidized school lunches. How can you square being pro-life with such a cold-hearted calculation that says, in essence, go away and starve? There’s always something of a “through the lookingglass” element to so much of our debates on abortion.

Take the sanctimonious sack of shit Andre Brauer, who is seeking to replace another sanctimonious sack of shit, Mark Sanford, as governor of our most laughable state (sorry, Texas), South Carolina. Mr. Brauer, of course, is vehemently pro-life, which is fine, but a few days ago he equated government assistance to the poor with feeding stray animals. This in a state where the unemployment rate is near 12% and almost 60% of kids receive subsidized school lunches.

How can you square being pro-life with such a cold-hearted calculation that says, in essence, go away and starve?

]]> By: Sue http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/#comment-321147 Sue Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:04:25 +0000 http://nancynall.com/?p=5282#comment-321147 Mosef, anyone who is in favor of making this 'genocide' illegal must be in favor of very strong social programs to cover the expected aftermath. Those 45 million lives must be valued as strongly after they are born as when they are in the womb. If the State has the right to dictate that a child must be born, it must also do what is necessary to make sure that child has adequate health care, nutrition and shelter until such time as that child's parent(s) can cover it, even if that time doesn't come. And if the argument against that is the whole "personal responsibility" thing, then free prophylactic birth control and lots of education in school and out on how and why to use it should be at the top of the to-do list. I am more interested in this apparent disconnect than the death penalty comparison. Mosef, anyone who is in favor of making this ‘genocide’ illegal must be in favor of very strong social programs to cover the expected aftermath. Those 45 million lives must be valued as strongly after they are born as when they are in the womb. If the State has the right to dictate that a child must be born, it must also do what is necessary to make sure that child has adequate health care, nutrition and shelter until such time as that child’s parent(s) can cover it, even if that time doesn’t come. And if the argument against that is the whole “personal responsibility” thing, then free prophylactic birth control and lots of education in school and out on how and why to use it should be at the top of the to-do list.
I am more interested in this apparent disconnect than the death penalty comparison.

]]> By: Jeff (the mild-mannered one) http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/#comment-321146 Jeff (the mild-mannered one) Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:22:08 +0000 http://nancynall.com/?p=5282#comment-321146 Every anti-abortion person I know is anti-death penalty, including myself. And as for no middle ground -- the extremes in both pro-life & pro-choice camps, like Sunni & Shi'a extremists, make it difficult for moderates to be heard clearly over the banging of pots and clashing of cymbals, but that doesn't mean we're not out here. Check polls, where large numbers want less abortion, and do not support a constitutional "Human Life" amendment. You can call us inconsistent if you like, but . . . Every anti-abortion person I know is anti-death penalty, including myself. And as for no middle ground — the extremes in both pro-life & pro-choice camps, like Sunni & Shi’a extremists, make it difficult for moderates to be heard clearly over the banging of pots and clashing of cymbals, but that doesn’t mean we’re not out here. Check polls, where large numbers want less abortion, and do not support a constitutional “Human Life” amendment. You can call us inconsistent if you like, but . . .

]]> By: alex http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/#comment-321145 alex Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:07:01 +0000 http://nancynall.com/?p=5282#comment-321145 Well, Mosef, my evidence about abortion stigma and teen pregnancy may be anecdotal but I'm sure that there is empirical support as well. There certainly has been empirical support for the idea that abstinence-only education — another bugaboo of the pro-life movement — has been achieving the unintended consequence of fostering rather than preventing teen pregnancy. I know firsthand of women who had children they didn't want because of the stigma. I also know people who wanted their daughters to undergo abortions but because the girls had already announced their pregnancies to the world it was too late — they did not want to face the opprobrium of their communities or see their daughters subjected to it. I'm not talking out of my ass, as you say. I'm speaking from the heart. Your side has essentially won on the issue of abortion on demand. Be happy, dammit. Well, Mosef, my evidence about abortion stigma and teen pregnancy may be anecdotal but I’m sure that there is empirical support as well. There certainly has been empirical support for the idea that abstinence-only education — another bugaboo of the pro-life movement — has been achieving the unintended consequence of fostering rather than preventing teen pregnancy.

I know firsthand of women who had children they didn’t want because of the stigma. I also know people who wanted their daughters to undergo abortions but because the girls had already announced their pregnancies to the world it was too late — they did not want to face the opprobrium of their communities or see their daughters subjected to it. I’m not talking out of my ass, as you say. I’m speaking from the heart. Your side has essentially won on the issue of abortion on demand. Be happy, dammit.

]]> By: beb http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/#comment-321142 beb Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:43:20 +0000 http://nancynall.com/?p=5282#comment-321142 Mosef wrte; "Abor­tion is geno­cide — 45 mil­lion human beings killed in the United States from 1973 to 2005." Earth to Mosef, the population of the USA today is higher than it was in 1973. How can abortion be genocide when the population keeps growing? When genocide struck Thailand or Rwanda whole communities disappeared. Nothing like that is happening in the US. You are, like so many abortion apologists - out of your fricking mind. Mosef wrte; “Abor­tion is geno­cide — 45 mil­lion human beings killed in the United States from 1973 to 2005.”

Earth to Mosef, the population of the USA today is higher than it was in 1973. How can abortion be genocide when the population keeps growing? When genocide struck Thailand or Rwanda whole communities disappeared. Nothing like that is happening in the US. You are, like so many abortion apologists – out of your fricking mind.

]]> By: Mosef http://nancynall.com/2010/01/28/ilike/#comment-321137 Mosef Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:33:14 +0000 http://nancynall.com/?p=5282#comment-321137 I support neither the death penalty nor abortion, but it is easy to see why one could support the death penalty but not abortion. First, there is the matter of scale. Abortion is genocide - 45 million human beings killed in the United States from 1973 to 2005. For the same time period, there were less than 1,100 public executions. Yes, all life is precious, etc, but obviously, abortion is in a totally different death league. Second, and while it is no tremendous insight, abortion is always and forever the taking of an innocent life. Yes, innocent people have been executed, but such cases represent a very small fraction. Is the death penalty wrong? Yes, in my opinion, but it doesn't even begin to match the evil that is abortion. It isn't hypocrisy that leads to the divided opinion - just an clear-eyed assessment that all wrongs are not equal and deserving of the same outrage and remediation. Please don't go all postal on me dear readers - I have heard it all before. What makes me crazy about the abortion war is the failure to speak the truth about what is really happening. I can't respect people who do not have the courage to state their position honestly. The science and technology of today mades it very, very clear that it is a human being that is killed as a result of the abortion. Now one could argue that there is a continuium of human life and that not all stages of human life are equally deserving of the state's protection of life and liberty. That early forms of life are inferior to fully autonomous persons and are thus not entitled to protection under the law. Make your case, but advance it on the premise that one human being has the right to terminate another human life. State that fact and then argue why. Last, whoever said that the explosion in teenage pregnancy is due to abortion stigma is simply talking out of their behind, with absolutely no emperical research to support that finding. (This would be impossible to find since the two are not causally related.) I support neither the death penalty nor abortion, but it is easy to see why one could support the death penalty but not abortion. First, there is the matter of scale. Abortion is genocide – 45 million human beings killed in the United States from 1973 to 2005. For the same time period, there were less than 1,100 public executions. Yes, all life is precious, etc, but obviously, abortion is in a totally different death league. Second, and while it is no tremendous insight, abortion is always and forever the taking of an innocent life. Yes, innocent people have been executed, but such cases represent a very small fraction. Is the death penalty wrong? Yes, in my opinion, but it doesn’t even begin to match the evil that is abortion. It isn’t hypocrisy that leads to the divided opinion – just an clear-eyed assessment that all wrongs are not equal and deserving of the same outrage and remediation. Please don’t go all postal on me dear readers – I have heard it all before.

What makes me crazy about the abortion war is the failure to speak the truth about what is really happening. I can’t respect people who do not have the courage to state their position honestly. The science and technology of today mades it very, very clear that it is a human being that is killed as a result of the abortion. Now one could argue that there is a continuium of human life and that not all stages of human life are equally deserving of the state’s protection of life and liberty. That early forms of life are inferior to fully autonomous persons and are thus not entitled to protection under the law. Make your case, but advance it on the premise that one human being has the right to terminate another human life. State that fact and then argue why.

Last, whoever said that the explosion in teenage pregnancy is due to abortion stigma is simply talking out of their behind, with absolutely no emperical research to support that finding. (This would be impossible to find since the two are not causally related.)

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