Comments on: Saturday morning market.

By: brian stouder

brian stouder — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:16:47 +0000

you keep asserting that Medicare *IS* socialism. It isn’t, it’s a government program, and I’m not opposed to all of them.

Allow me to LEAP to agree with the political sentiment expressed here, even as I suspect that those folks with Obama-as-Commie-Joker (Heath Ledger version) signs at the teabagger confabs would never, ever, ever accept that any ‘government program’ proposed by the Obama administration is anything less than unrefined socialism.

But beware; every government program is a manifestation of “socialism” – if words have meaning; or else, there is no such thing as “socialism” at all

By: moe99

moe99 — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:09:41 +0000

That’s really disappointing. I don’t see any good side to racism. Perhaps you could enlighten me.

By: Jeff (the mild-mannered one)

Jeff (the mild-mannered one) — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:42:40 +0000

Smidge would be your word, not mine. “A bit” may not be enough to satisfy you, but there’s enough space between them for me to distinguish them. Jeff, you keep asserting that Medicare *IS* socialism. It isn’t, it’s a government program, and I’m not opposed to all of them.

And I don’t fervently denounce much of anything. Plenty of fervent denouncing and cursing of the darkness all around me, they don’t need my help.

By: moe99

moe99 — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:27:05 +0000

Jeff tmmo, go read the book The Help and see if you think racism is just a smidge below socialism. I would think that someone with your background, would be fervently denouncing racism.

By: jcburns

jcburns — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:54:51 +0000

Um, again, Medicare is Socialism. And there are a lot of programs that come from Socialist theory that have made our country great (or kept it afloat) over the 200-plus years. Racism is not something to dislike ‘a bit more’—it’s something that, in its pure form, makes people evil. Fortunately, we only witness it in highly diluted form most days these days, but make no mistake, it leads (by definition) to humans hating their fellow humans. Evil.

By: Jeff (the mild-mannered one)

Jeff (the mild-mannered one) — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:49:55 +0000

I’m talking about gauging a movement’s core from outliers. Not gonna do it. Wouldn’t be prudent. And I dislike racism a bit more than socialism, but not as much as my brother Jeff would like. The fact that we have some social programs (some of which work quite well) does not equate to the desire to see a larger share of the industrial economy directly managed by the state and governmental elites. Saying “nyah, nyah, your mother gets Medicare!” doesn’t mean that socialism is fine or that I’m a hypocrite for disliking it because my parents use a state program.

If single-payer Medicare For All would work, I’d be for it. I don’t think it will, at least not in a way that I’m less comfortable with than the current situation. Granting that the status quo is non-sustainable, I think we’ll end up seeing some form of Medicare For All/Medicare Part E and political disputes over end of life care, ending of life “care,” and abortion. Which we have already, so I’m philosophical. But Hamilton’s “report on manufactures” shows you can have a national industrial policy without state control of the means of production . . . or at least, that’s how I read it. Off to the slippery slopes of our fair county . . .

By: Jolene

Jolene — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:55:30 +0000

Are you equating racism and socialism, Jeff, or putting them on some kind of dimension of political philosophy? Because I don’t think they work that way. Socialism is a political/economic philosophy; one may or may not find it compelling, but it’s a logical system w/ some claim to plausibility and morality. I suppose one could say that racism is a political/economic philosophy too, but I’d don’t think anyone advocating its plausibility or morality would get far.

By: brian stouder

brian stouder — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:52:37 +0000

I buy neither argument as meaningful.

fair enough.

Are there more socialists among Obama’s adherents than in the Tea Party leadership? Unquestionably

I would question that one. Lots of angry teabaggers tote signs that say “Leave My Medi-Care Alone!!”; but I’d agree that angry racists on the one side are cancelled by angry socialists on the other, leaving folks like you and I to sort out the rest

By: jcburns

jcburns — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:52:04 +0000

Y’know, Jeff TMMO, actual Socialism (as a political theory) is way way more benign and, well, people-promoting than any flavor of racism. (Yes, I know, conservatives like to sputter “Socialism” in a way that equates it with Stalinism, but y’know? It’s not. It’s kinda closer to Medicare. Which I like, and would like even more people to have.)

I know you know that.

And the ‘ism’ that involves claiming our President is dependent on teleprompters while writing notes—prompts! on her hand—is called hypocrisy…uh..ism.

And don’t get me started on the US needing a commander in chief more than a law professor. So much for ‘nation of laws’, eh? New slogan: ‘nation of commanders.’

Read Garry Wills about how the ‘Commander in Chief’ title has been distorted over the years into something quite imperial.

By: John

John — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:49:43 +0000

Anyone else creeped out by the bleached whale peeking out from Pete Townshend’s shirt?