Sometime in the summer of 2020, I ran across a quote from Hillary Clinton that I cannot for the life of me find again. And yet, I know I didn’t hallucinate it. It was immediately after the August 2020 Michigan primary, when the Wayne County Board of Canvassers made a big to-do at their certification meeting, and whaddaya know, I wrote about this once before, and here’s what I said in 2021:
I wish I could find a quote from Hillary Clinton, something she said after the August 2020 primary here, when there was, again, a hoo-hah raised over unbalanced precincts. It’s true that too many were unbalanced, but again, most were by very small numbers, attributable to human error, and didn’t affect any races. Having worked the polls now for three elections, I can tell you the procedures are filled with fiddly bits and little details and detours and side roads to cover every conceivable voting situation, and when the people working the precinct are doing it once, maybe twice a year, it’s a miracle that any of them come out balanced. In August, I caught two or three errors in my own precinct that were caused by nothing more than confusion or assumptions made in error. We easily corrected them, but still. It happens.
And Hillary said something to the effect of, “You watch, this unbalanced-precincts thing was a test run. They’re going to try it again.” And what do you know, they did. I have Googled and Googled, and can’t find the source, but I clearly remember her talking about it.
As the world knows, that was precisely the argument made against certification in November 2020, when the Wayne County board deadlocked over the results from Detroit. Unbalanced!* OMG! The meeting went on for hours, with the chairwoman of the board actually offering to certify the rest of the county, i.e. the white part, but not Detroit, i.e., the black part. The meeting was held on Zoom, and dozens and dozens and dozens of voters howled their outrage over this. Toward the end of the meeting, the two GOP canvassers changed their votes, but left without actually signing the certificate and, a day later, tried to call backsies.
* The total number of votes in unbalanced precincts was fewer than 500, fewer than four in individual counting boards, and wouldn’t have affected the results of a single race. Source.
It was upsetting for everybody, and someone did indeed call/text threats to one of the canvassers, Monica Palmer. We also knew that the president, the orange one, called Palmer after the meeting, to express “genuine concern for my safety,” which is what she said then.
These days, she says she “can’t remember” what was said on the call. You know how it is: The president of the United States calls you, and the deets slip your mind.
Well, in these days of a recording device in every pocket, a recording of that very call has emerged:
Then-President Donald Trump personally pressured two Republican members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers not to sign the certification of the 2020 presidential election, according to recordings reviewed by The Detroit News and revealed publicly for the first time.
On a Nov. 17, 2020, phone call, which also involved Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, Trump told Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, the two GOP Wayne County canvassers, they’d look “terrible” if they signed the documents after they first voted in opposition and then later in the same meeting voted to approve certification of the county’s election results, according to the recordings.
“We’ve got to fight for our country,” said Trump on the recordings, made by a person who was present for the call with Palmer and Hartmann. “We can’t let these people take our country away from us.”
McDaniel, a Michigan native and the leader of the Republican Party nationally, said at another point in the call, “If you can go home tonight, do not sign it. … We will get you attorneys.”
To which Trump added: “We’ll take care of that.”
You can read the rest of the story, which is not paywalled. On the one hand, nothing about this is surprising, except to learn that 1) it wasn’t just Palmer he called, but Palmer, the other canvasser, Ronna McDaniel and a few other people who were sitting in a vehicle parked outside the TCF Center the night of the certification vote; and 2) whatever was said about her safety, there was a lot more said, too; and of course, 3) today Palmer testifies that she can’t recall what, exactly, was said on the call.
But bottom line, once again, Trump was caught on tape asking for crimes.
Three years later, Palmer has divorced her husband (a neighbor of mine) and moved back to west Michigan. The other canvasser, William Hartmann, died of Covid in 2021, a proud #pureblood. Palmer’s phrase to describe those who threatened her (and of course there were threats), “Grosse Pointe Antifa,” enjoyed a brief moment in the sun, and I regret I didn’t snag one of the T-shirts that clever merch salespeople came up with, especially the ones with the crossed lacrosse sticks. Both have been replaced on the canvassing board by even-crazier MAGA types. Ronna McDaniel has led her party to an ever-lengthening string of defeats, thanks to her fealty to Loser McLosington himself.
So. It’s nearly Christmas, and I wish you all a merry and peaceful one. I’ll be back sometime next week.
alex said on December 22, 2023 at 9:39 am
So there’s all this hand-wringing by law professors about the possible political fallout from Trump being disqualified from the ballot in Colorado. “It will destroy what little faith is left in America’s institutions, yada yada.”
I’m glad the justices wrote into their decision that they arrived where they did by strictly adhering to the constitution without regard for the political implications.
If Trump is disqualified, it will restore the faith of those who believe in the rule of law. As for those who are irretrievably lost, maybe it will serve as a wake-up call for at least some of them.
605 chars
diane said on December 22, 2023 at 9:57 am
Exactly Alex. I do not understand this weird notion that we should abandon the rule of law because some people won’t believe in its results. That road leads straight to authoritarianism. We may be on that road but do we have to run down it even faster?
256 chars
alex said on December 22, 2023 at 12:45 pm
Here’s a long read I just finished.
I offer it not because it’s in any way heartening, but it certainly helps explain the recalcitrance of Trump voters. (And it’s a Michigan story too! Spoiler alert: I had no idea that Michigan voted for George Wallace by 66% in the Dem primary of 1972.)
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/22/macomb-county-michigan-suburbs-american-politics-00131386
402 chars
Jeff Gill said on December 22, 2023 at 1:24 pm
“But Monica Palmer, one of the two Republican members, said she was not convinced. Palmer, a schools activist in the Detroit area, said in an interview Wednesday that she had spent months pressing Detroit and Wayne County election authorities to fix problems where precincts are chronically out of balance. They had not.
Now, Palmer said, she would not accept the same excuses.
She said she had no contact with the Trump campaign and was unmoved by claims by Trump or his supporters about the Michigan vote. She said she was solely focused on what she said were Wayne County’s chronic problems with unbalanced precinct totals.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/wayne-county-election/2020/11/18/b515fa14-29c9-11eb-92b7-6ef17b3fe3b4_story.html
759 chars
FDChief said on December 22, 2023 at 1:35 pm
Trump is what he’s always been; a crooked, greedy, stupid little grifter.
His cult doesn’t care, because he offers them what they crave; power over the lives of the vermin – brown and black untermenschen, libs and bitches, queers, filthy heathens.
That’s really all you need to know about all this; they are coming for you. They’ll use any means necessary. Lies. Bullshit. Propaganda. Bullets.
So it’s pretty simple; fight them and win.
Or be their slaves.
478 chars
David C said on December 22, 2023 at 1:48 pm
I wouldn’t read too much into Wallace winning the Michigan primary in 1972. It was just a few days after he was shot so there was a big sympathy vote. Michigan had, and still has, open primaries so a lot of Republicans crossed over to vote for Wallace. Nixon was going to win the Republican primary anyway. Not that there weren’t a lot of racist Democrats in Michigan who helped. Like most everywhere at the time racism was pretty much the norm.
445 chars
LindaG said on December 22, 2023 at 6:13 pm
PBS News Hour is doing this story right now! (6:13 p.m.)
57 chars
Julie Robinson said on December 22, 2023 at 7:33 pm
Remember Florida’s version of Three’s Company, Christian and Bridget Ziegler? The police now have two videos that Christian recorded, one of the sexual assault he was arrested for, and one of Bridget and an unnamed woman.
This pair have blanketed the state with restrictive laws, book bans, and the worst kind of anti-LGBTQ hate. There is a special circle in hell for them.
377 chars
Dave said on December 22, 2023 at 7:47 pm
I wonder how far and fast the governor of FLA will run away from them and say he barely knew them.
98 chars
tajalli said on December 22, 2023 at 9:40 pm
LindaG, thanks for the tip about the PBS News Hour on youtube. I’d received an email about the daily number of 287 deaths in Gaza (70% women and children) over the past 3 months. And receiving only 10% of their needed food, so they’re also starving. Just stunning.
Next up, at least for me, was a documentary on Amazon describing the polar opposite situation and IMO it was a 2 hours well spent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVVfJVj5z8s
447 chars
FDChief said on December 23, 2023 at 9:10 am
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. One of the two people who will be the most powerful politicians in this country is spinning all the Greatest Nazi Hits but the most damning thing being said about him in the public discourse is that he smells revolting? That’s what bugs you about him, America? Seriously?
So maybe I shouldn’t be surprised that The Worst Americans (Republicans, natch) were fine with the Ziegler dude whipping up on some woman but drew the line on him being in a consensual ménage a trois. Assault? Battery? You go, bro! But don’t do it while having non-cis-het sex! No-go, bro!
What a hot mess this country’s politics are!
661 chars
Deborah said on December 23, 2023 at 1:00 pm
I have no idea if it’s true but people reporting that Trump smells bad is the kind of thing that will turn some people off who otherwise might have thought he was cool in a very superficial way. Whatever it takes is what I say. The fact that he eats crappy food, probably makes him gaseous and he’d think his shit doesn’t stink.
334 chars
susan said on December 23, 2023 at 2:20 pm
Speaking of Trump Stench, this is kinda tacky, but rings true. And is most amusing.
160 chars
FDChief said on December 23, 2023 at 2:39 pm
I always thought the big “tell” was the repeated anecdotes about Tubby’s golf cheating.
My understanding is that he really is a decent amateur golfer (which he should be, given how much he plays!) but that his rinky-dink cheating – improving his lie, dropping balls without taking a penalty – and his asshole behavior like driving his cart onto greens – is a guy who’d steal pennies off a dead man’s eyes. Not just a crooked bastard, but a small-time, petty crooked bastard.
And this petty crook has an excellent chance of becoming our god-emperor!
564 chars
Sherri said on December 23, 2023 at 4:26 pm
I’m trying to understand the arguments for why the Colorado court decision should not be upheld and Trump should be allowed on the ballot. Mind you, I’m not trying to guess or understand what SCOTUS will do; I expect they’ll cast aside all pretense of originalism and overturn. I’m talking about the Very Serious People arguments.
Argument 1 seems to be that it wasn’t really insurrection. I guess maybe if you took one of Trump’s actions in isolation, you might be able to make this argument, but looking at the whole picture, including inciting violence, this is just silly.
Argument 2 is that he hasn’t been convicted. Neither was Jefferson Davis, but there was no question that the 14the Amendment restricted him from holding office.
Argument 3 is that it would create chaos! How can we have an election where a candidate isn’t on the ballot in one state, plus Texas will move to remove Biden from the ballot. Well, this is our system. Each state determines how their elections are held, and has even more control since John Roberts decided racism was over and gutted the Voting Rights Act.
Argument 4 is that well, you wouldn’t be in favor of doing this if it were Hillary. Wrong. Plus, we have had two elections where Democrats could have reasonably questioned the legitimacy of the election, and didn’t, so this thought experiment is stupid.
Argument 4 is that the Constitution shouldn’t overrule the election process, or something like that, that people should be allowed to vote for the candidate of their choice. So we can ignore the 22nd Amendment and reelect Barack Obama?
Argument 5 has a point. That is that the 14th Amendment is ambiguous, and doesn’t expressly name the President and Vice President, while expressly naming Senators and Representatives and electors. I can see an argument either way here. Maybe it shouldn’t apply to Presidents and VPs, maybe naming electors is sufficient to make it apply.
1968 chars
robert said on December 23, 2023 at 5:47 pm
Thanks for your posts, Nancy. Enjoy the Holiday.
48 chars
Suzanne said on December 23, 2023 at 9:53 pm
Susan @ 13, I have followed Noel Casler on Twitter for several years. He’s posted often about how bad Trump was on The Apprentice and how Trump wore adult diapers because he was basically incontinent. Overall, a complete train wreck of a person. He has said that Ivanka’s job was to calm him down when he completely lost it, which was every day.
349 chars
Deborah said on December 24, 2023 at 9:44 am
Happy Christmas Eve! Tonight is when we have our celebration. That’s how we did it in my family when I was a kid and I’ve planned it that way since.
LB made homemade pasta yesterday and my husband will sauté scallops and asparagus in butter maybe a little cream to top the pasta with, that’s what we all decided on as the special Christmas Eve meal. We have a good bottle of wine.
Present opening happens after the meal. Then we usually read the books we’ve gotten and have dessert.
Tomorrow is anti/climactic, we have a big breakfast and then laze around usually reading. My husband and I will probably go back to the cabin and LB gets together with friends.
677 chars
alex said on December 24, 2023 at 11:23 am
Anti-vaxxer B-I-L just came down with his third ass-kicking case of COVID (he was complaining of having never quite recovered from the second one when I last saw him this past summer) so that’s one less Christmas party we need to bother with.
Getting ready to help with my family’s Christmas Eve dinner later today. I trussed up a $220 tenderloin of beef yesterday and now I’m getting ready to parboil and scallop potatoes and fiddle with other fixin’s.
Wishing you all a happy merry as I try to tear myself away from my daily habit of doom scrolling and quit procrastinating.
584 chars
Julie Robinson said on December 24, 2023 at 1:38 pm
This morning I listened to the Service of Nine Lessons & Carols from Cambridge, as I do every Christmas Eve. It is very holy for me; a boy soprano starts by singing the first line of Once in Royal David’s City acapella, then all those rich British voices reading the lessons, the magnificent choirs and organ. It’s my bit of high church in a world that doesn’t even know the term.
One of the privileges of having a pastor in the family is all the food gifts that are dropped off. I’ve lost count of cookie trays and candy, and today, homemade lasagna!
Sending my love and light to you all however you celebrate.
622 chars
tajalli said on December 24, 2023 at 2:06 pm
No plans for Christmas per se, but am going out for my (formerly Audubon) chapter’s annual Hunt for the Wren bird watching walk on the 26th in the morning and then my weekly library/veggie market activities. Looking forward to bingeing on the 3rd season of Jodi Whittaker’s Doctor Who.
285 chars
Mark P said on December 24, 2023 at 3:18 pm
We had planned to take my aunt out for a pre-Christmas dinner, but my wife is spending pretty much all day in bed now, so that didn’t happen. So it’s leftover spaghetti tonight, and for Christmas dinner, some frozen enchiladas that I made a few weeks ago. Both are good, so I’m fine with that. Our Christmas will be small. There will be one gift under the tree, a bathrobe for my wife, which seems like the only gift she can really use these days.
I would love to visit my friends of 50 years in Denver for Christmas, but I went out there for some respite a few weeks ago and hired a woman to stay with my wife. She refuses to travel, so I have go by myself if I go at all. Fourteen dollars an hour doesn’t sound like a lot, but when you multiply by 24 hours in a day and 14 days in two weeks, it ends up being quite a lot.
836 chars
basset said on December 24, 2023 at 5:06 pm
Thought I could avoid the “Little Drummer Boy” on the Sirius Outlaw Country channel, but he caught up with me this morning. Didn’t know Johnny Cash had done that one.
173 chars
Little Bird said on December 24, 2023 at 5:16 pm
It’s nice not having to cook the big festive meal. But I’m sort of at loose ends, not knowing what to do with myself until we eat.
134 chars
LAMary said on December 24, 2023 at 8:49 pm
In anticipation of the ex demanding the offspring show up at his home for Christmas the relaxed alternative holiday meal and gift giving is scheduled for next weekend. If one of the sons called his dad say, ten days ago, he would not yet have decided whether or not he wanted them there on Christms day. We just assume he will and surprise! He does. I hope he realizes we all consider him a jerk.
396 chars
alex said on December 26, 2023 at 8:19 am
I have a longtime friend in Chicago and somehow I always thought that we were on the same page politically until relatively recently when he took great umbrage at my ridicule of Donald Trump, much to both my surprise and dismay.
He suggested that I read Ann Althouse. I tried. I suppose I can give her some props for pithiness, but her politics leave me stone cold. She claims to be apolitical and nonpartisan, which is how my friend described her when pitching her merits to me and which also doesn’t square with the objective reality that is her blog. One needs only to scroll down into the cesspool of comments to see what an effective right-wing agitator she truly is.
I’ve seen a lot of people become radicalized these past few years, but this is the first time I’ve seen it happen to an intellectual peer and it’s disturbing.
838 chars
Julie Robinson said on December 26, 2023 at 10:32 am
Alex, I’ve been surprised by college friends like that. The MAGA power is strong.
Time rolling up to Christmas was crazy busy with church prep. Yesterday we had the son and DIL for dinner, then we all went for a hang at the house of the other family members in town. Today, hanging here and trying to do nothing.
If you like home renovation horror stories, here’s one for you. Our local family live in an A-Frame, beautiful but always a challenge for upkeep. When they started to replace the roof, they learned the wiring was placed on top of the underlayment, nailed down without regard to whether or not the nail pierced the wire, then new shingles slapped on top. As shingles were being removed, he saw an arc and some smoke. Aieeeee!
Needless to say the power to that section of the house is turned off, but the fix has been a meandering path through contractors, electricians, engineers, and the city code office. They’re now in month five, and as soon as financing is arranged the repairs will start.
I will say, this outdoes all our contractor stories!
1072 chars
nancy said on December 26, 2023 at 12:42 pm
Ann Althouse — haven’t heard that name in a good long while. One of the OG post-9/11 ones, still working her game of just-asking-questions and I-simply-don’t-see-the-evidence-and-need-I-remind-you-I’m-a-law-professor. She claims to be apolitical but always comes down on the conservative side. I scrolled down a few days and saw she was pasting clips from Joe Rogan, for crying out loud.
I did note she hasn’t changed her mugshot in 20-some years.
452 chars
Sherri said on December 26, 2023 at 6:39 pm
There’s a certain type of conservative who always sees themselves as apolitical and nonpartisan and independent and moderate, they just always come down on the conservative side because the liberals are so mean to them. Althouse, who came to prominence when Glenn “Instapundit” Reynolds, highlighted her, is like that.
These type of conservatives are likely to capture a certain type of white male, in my experience, who wants to read across a spectrum of opinion and think of themselves as being fair to all sides. If you don’t think too hard about their arguments and treat them solely as thought experiments, they don’t seem too unreasonable. It’s only when you think through the implications for people not well served by the status quo that the ugliness shows through.
788 chars
Deborah said on December 26, 2023 at 7:24 pm
Glenn “Instapundit” Reynolds, oh yes, he’s someone my rightwing sister is/was enamored with, mainly because he mentioned her once, when she was writing an opinion column in a dinky town newspaper in Minnesota. She was thrilled, I read the column and was appalled as it was horribly rightwing and mean.
I hadn’t thought of him in years, or Ann Althouse either, excuse me, I need to go back in my bubble now
412 chars
Jeff Borden said on December 26, 2023 at 9:28 pm
Damn. I didn’t get what I wanted for christmas. . .a massive, fatal coronary of a certain Floriduh man.
103 chars
tajalli said on December 26, 2023 at 11:55 pm
Had a wonderful boxing day hunting for the wren. No wrens but oodles of other birds: red capped kinglet, huntington’s verio, downy woodpecker, acorn woodpecker, chestnut backed chickadee, dark eyed junco, red tailed hawk (by call only), turkey vulture (of course), mallards, goldfinch, flicker. Also a mystery pile of scat with a high vegetable content and a bobcat sighting.
The fellow leading the trip has been a naturalist, entomologist and professor at UC Berkeley since 1972 so knows all sorts of interesting information about the local ecology and social interactions of birds, animals and is a natural raconteur. Delightful morning.
647 chars
beb said on December 27, 2023 at 5:12 am
I think I won the “Little Drummer Boy” challenge. I have scrupulously avoid all Christmas songs this year. I even got disgusted because the classical music channel on our cable provider (Comcast) had put The Nutcracker Suite into rapid rotation. Also programmed some Christmas oratorials, which I dislike because I dislike oratorial singing.
Meanwhile this has been a wettest Christmas ever. Day after day of fog and drizzle. Since I’m at an age when shoveling snow is counter-indicated this is just as well.
Next on the agenda is avoiding getting killed by the falling bullet of a typical Detroit New Years’ eve. Our daughter is having an extended visit with her boyfriend in Milwaukie just to avoid New Years in the D.
727 chars
JodiP said on December 27, 2023 at 7:30 am
Tajalli, your boxing day sounds wonderful!
I am not commenting on the site as much because my work laptop has deemed nnc.com unsafe and reading and writing on my phone isn’t as fun.
Julie’s family’s wiring horrors are somewhat echoed by a family friend’s in MA. She is 83, on an OK fixed income. She lives in the home she grew up in and recently got a call from her insurance company that they would like to do a full home inspection. She’s very worried because her entire house is still knob and tube! We think the worst case is that she might have to get the house re-wired. I began looking up programs while we were on the phone with her. We’ll definitely help her figure it all out but it’s so stressful for her.
Our holiday was low key so quite enjoyable.
One of our nieces had baby #3 yesterday, so lots of joy in the text thread with my siblings and our spouses!
884 chars
Jakash said on December 27, 2023 at 12:24 pm
We were blindsided early by an out-of-context “Drummer’s Boy.” Maybe it was on WFMT, Chicago’s great classical station; I don’t really remember.
Tajalli, perhaps you know this song; this version is from a favorite Chieftans album we like to listen to on Christmas Eve. “The Wren in the Furze”
“The wren, oh the wren; he’s the king of all birds,
On St. Stephen’s Day he got caught in the furze,”
But my favorite line is: “If there’s a drink in the house, would it make itself known…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-IXsN0ZldQ
546 chars
Julie Robinson said on December 27, 2023 at 3:30 pm
A classical music station, much less one that plays oratorios, is a distant dream for me. It seems obvious I’m out of step with most of my peers. But I don’t mind one bit and seek the music from other sources.
Reading the business pages of today’s newspaper was one story after another about irresponsible managers harming people and the environment. The Japanese are eager to have nuclear as a major energy source and are hoping memories will fade 13 years after the meltdown at Fukushima. So they fined the company $165,000. In total.
Next was Toyota shutting down all four factories of their Daihatsu subsidiary over falsifying safety tests, 18 lives lost in an Indonesian nickel plant, Pillsbury deserting a flour mill, gift cards that lose their value if not used in time, etc.
And of course darling Apple, who plead they will suffer irreparable harm if not allowed to continue using stolen technology. The MBAs have won.
935 chars
LAMary said on December 27, 2023 at 4:44 pm
Tajalli, there is no grace period. It annoyed the DMV person on the phone that I even asked. Sheesh. Wish me luck tomorrow. I took the test online (the DMV person said I could even though I’m old) and this should be a slam dunk. I have until January 6 to renew my license.
272 chars
Jeff Gill said on December 27, 2023 at 5:56 pm
The insurance company “would like to do a full house inspection.” I chuckle grimly: as if one has a chance to say “no, I’m fine without one, thank you!”
After my father’s death in 2000, as my sister & I were clearing the home place, the plumbing went backwards, and it seemed that the downstairs toilet had maple roots all through it. By the time we were done cleaning out tile we were to the street (I had some lovely negotiations with the city water folks about scheduling shut offs and such) and out $15,500.
Here in the week after my father-in-law’s funeral, the cascade was smaller but a $44 faucet cartridge replacement ultimately became $2,250 in full faucet and shutoff replacements with the main house shutoff valve out of code, leaking, and needing replacement. The nice ending is I just got back from Lowe’s which gave me full credit back on the Delta cartridge even though I’d opened the package and used it once in learning that wasn’t my problem.
I say ending — waiting for the bills to start arriving for the Dec. 5 squad run, his two days in ER, five in the hospital, and not quite (but no doubt billed) five days at the nursing home. Or I should say on that last I’m curious to see what we get back of the check I wrote for his first 30 days required to admit him to his last bed. ($12,120 for Level IV care if you’re interested.) Funeral home & cemetery already paid. Nota bene: we replicated his wife’s services to the handles on the casket, but from 2015 to the close of 2023 the price went from $8,500 to $13,500. That’s an almost 60% increase in five years. The cemetery charges were up 70+%.
1632 chars
Deborah said on December 27, 2023 at 5:59 pm
This year both LB and I actually won the Drummer Boy challenge. So late on Christmas day I played it as a surprise, on You Tube, the Pentatonics version to be extra creepy, so we could gloat that we’d managed to make the whole season this year without hearing it out in the retail world.
We’re still being lazy as hell, reading mostly and only occasionally venturing out in public. It’s cold in Northern NM but not excessively so.
434 chars
Julie Robinson said on December 27, 2023 at 6:54 pm
And our fine insurance company sent a notice of non-renewal to us today. We have to submit all kinds of proof about our solar install; note this happened over five years ago. I have read they’ve decided solar is a convenient way to drop customers. Another day in paradise!
272 chars
LAMary said on December 27, 2023 at 8:46 pm
Don’t know which fine insurance company you have, Julie but most of the big ones dumped my neighborhood a few years ago. Travelers is hanging in.
145 chars
Julie Robinson said on December 27, 2023 at 9:49 pm
Very few write policies in Florida anymore, and we’re constantly having our broker look for better options. I’m fatalistic about it now. We pay through the nose no matter what.
176 chars