So I’m scanning this and that yesterday, trying to get caught up on all the didjusee motes of the day, and I discovered this. It’s a post about photos taken at the National Federation of Republican Women annual board meeting in Charleston. Some photos from the event — themed “a Southern experience” — were posted to Facebook, and, well, you decide for yourself:
The African Americans, I learn through further Googling, were paid re-enactors. The man in the middle is the South Carolina state senate president Glenn McConnell, and no, I don’t know why he’s dressed in Yankee blue, as he, too, is a re-enactor, and like all good southron boys, prefers the home team’s uniform. Maybe he swings both ways.
It appears the event may well have been innocent; these could have been the “Gullah singers and storytellers” referenced in the event’s flyer. And maybe McConnell can’t resist a chance to put on the old-timey clothes and the uncomfortable shoes and let his freak flag fly. The desire for vaccinated time travel runs strong in white guys like these, and I won’t even speculate that he wishes he lived c. 1860 so he could legally own the people on his left and right. It was a simpler time all around, wasn’t it? The government mainly stayed out of a man’s business and women wore heaps of petticoats, making seduction that much more exciting. You could pour yourself a glass of sippin’ whiskey of an evening and sit on the veranda, watching the sun go down, knowing tomorrow will be about the same as today.
A while back the Embassy Theater in Fort Wayne screened “Gone With the Wind” for a summer movie, with guests encouraged to come in period attire. The Lincoln Museum felt the need to pass out a flyer informing the audience that the picture of the Old South onscreen was — gasp! — idealized and divorced from reality. I recall a passage about B.O. and bad teeth. Noted, but I thought it was party-pooping just the same. (There’s no question the African Americans in that photo have benefited from fluoridated water and toothbrushes. Good teeth and shoes are the giveaway of reenactors everywhere.) So maybe I’m out of line here, but the next time I read that old perennial from the op-ed page — When Will Black People Learn That Only Republicans Have Their Best Interests at Heart? — I’m going to show them that photo. Among many others.
I didn’t get both my stories done yesterday — one down, one to go — and so must duck out early today. Fortunately, I have bloggage:
Llewd, Coozledad’s bull, is up to his old tricks. That mischievous scamp.
I wish I had a booty like Inez Sainz. That’s all I have to say about that.
I don’t want anybody else. When I think about you I …watch Christine O’Donnell’s teenage self opposing masturbation. She asks the timeless question asked by girls everywhere: If he can please himself, why am I in the picture? Guys, you want to take that one? Maybe Llewd can start us off.
And with that, I have 1,200 words to write for someone else. Lucky me.
coozledad said on September 15, 2010 at 10:11 am
From what I’ve read, Clark Gable’s breath recalled the days of Southern grandeur with deadly accuracy. Poor Vivian.
I don’t get the reenactor thing at all. The enlisted men and junior grade officers of the Army of Northern Virginia always had dysentery. You’ve got some guys out by the Manassas shopping mall arguing whether they should be wearing contacts or designer frames when they really ought to be sawing one off in their butternut homespuns for the forlorn hope.
Re the “hands off your bits” candidate, thank God one of them has the honesty to come forward with the real plan: deny human agency at every goddamn opportunity, even down to last solace of the children of Republican parents.
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MichaelG said on September 15, 2010 at 10:24 am
I didn’t look at the Inez Sainz pictures. I just read the story.
That “If he can please himself …” question seems to me like a double edged, er, sword.
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Chris in Iowa said on September 15, 2010 at 10:28 am
Talk about a conundrum — links to a nice photo of Inez Sainz and her very nice booty AND the admonition from Christine O’Donnell. And to make things worse, she is a bit on the attractive side herself in those pious MTV videos where she tells the boys to practice sexual purity. All she would have needed in 1996 to complete the fantasy was a Catholic school-girl uniform.
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Peter said on September 15, 2010 at 10:35 am
Oh yeah Chris…maybe it’s my lustful heart, but on the tape, when the youth minister’s speaking its looking like she’s eyeing him over.
You know, isn’t Christine O’Donnell’s victory just another sign that the terrorists have won?
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Sue said on September 15, 2010 at 11:01 am
“There’s no question the African Americans in that photo have benefited from fluoridated water and toothbrushes.”
Oh, and emancipation, too.
Here’s something I shared with Cooz awhile back. http://comics.com/pearls_before_swine/2010-06-03/
Back later, I want to get in on the inevitable dirty talk.
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jeff borden said on September 15, 2010 at 11:22 am
A coupla things. . .
The reenactor likely IS wearing a Confederate uniform. Rules were pretty loose –George Armstrong Custer had his uniform custom designed– and it’s quite possible a Southern officer might wear that apparel.
Christine O’Donnell. Lord, where to start? Even the state GOPers say should is unqualified to be a dog catcher, much less a senator. She’s an uber-Catholic, the kind Mel Gibson would embrace, the kind depicted in”Angela’s Ashes.” So, naturally, she is against masturbation, or as it was known when I was a boy, “the sin of self-abuse.”
This is the season of the nuts. Sharron Angle. Paul Rand. Joe Miller. And now Little Missy Christine, out to save the world for purity and virtue.
I look forward to her conversation with, say, John Ensign or maybe David Vitter, paragons of her party who have been doing a lot more than whacking off with Rosey Palms. It will be a meeting for the ages.
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adrianne said on September 15, 2010 at 11:31 am
And let us not forget the Tea Party triumph in New York state, one Carl Paladino, who defended comparing Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver (and Orthodox Jew) to the Antichrist, thinks welfare recipients should be rounded up and put into former prisons to learn hygiene and social skills, and appears not to know that people in Puerto Rico are citizens of the United States (this came out during a rant about illegals coming to New York to have their anchor babies). Sheesh.
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beb said on September 15, 2010 at 11:43 am
Anyone who thinks masturbation is no different from intercourse has never had intercourse.
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Little Bird said on September 15, 2010 at 11:48 am
What I don’t get is why any girl would think herself pointless because her boyfriend masturbates. Doesn’t this lady’s stance sort of imply that sex is all a girl is good for in a teen (or otherwise) relationship?
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prospero said on September 15, 2010 at 11:59 am
Old Times there are not forgotten. Didn’t Dixieccrats all become Republicans? Didn’t Lee Atwatwr pursue th Southern Strategy??
These asshole racists aren’t the racists they purport to be, but it wins votes. Americans, in general, are idiots. We get what we deserve. Morons. Obama didn’t fix everything in two years, so try the Republicans that fucked everything up with trickle down.
How is it remotelly difficult to understand. Most of us spend money immediately. Rich people buy another mansion. Which stimulates nothing and creates no jobs?
It’s important that people understand that when the GOP talks about small business, they mean law firms and fucking hedge funds. Heaven forfend that hedge fund manager would pay her fair share.
Apparently, this is too nuancd for American voters. They somehow think they’re in the big tent. How stupid are Americans, and why re they allowed to participate in participatory government?
People in the US think there’s some question about a “tax increase”.
Sorry, you morons that ran two wars off the books, it’s a return to sensible tax policy Republicans actually wrote into the book.
People believe settlements outside the 1967 limits are legal, because they’re “a fact on the ground”. Doesn’t make it so.
People appear willing to believe anything but facts and assume the made-up shit is true.
How exactly is this a tax increase? Republidans wrote this law and ramed it through. At the time, they insisted on the 9 year sundown to avoid the extremeley poor review from the CBO over ten yers. Giving more money to rich folks does not help anybody. A fucking nitwit would see that. It already didn’t work.
My point is simple. If Americans can’t see through this they are clearly too fucking stupid to be allowed to vote.
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moe99 said on September 15, 2010 at 12:46 pm
C’dad, is it polled cows that have the horns or don’t have the horns? I get so confused on this point….
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coozledad said on September 15, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Moe:Polled don’t have them. My uncle used to remove the horn buds on calves, and it was a nasty operation that left the animals prone to infection and fly strike. I think that’s the biggest reason they prefer them genetically hornless. The only problem I’ve had with the horned variety is you need a degree in structural engineering to keep them fenced.
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MichaelG said on September 15, 2010 at 12:55 pm
“Catholic schoolgirl uniforms”? We are getting out into fetish land.
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4dbirds said on September 15, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Virginia has an uber-catholic as attorney general. While we democrats were unenthused, the teabaggers voted him in. In other news, my co-worker’s neighbor was murdered over a speed bump. http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/cms/story.php?id=2175
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ROgirl said on September 15, 2010 at 1:09 pm
It occurred to me that there’s something masturbatory about Civil War reenactment. Those good ol boys must be getting sexual pleasure out of the whole ritual, particularly the playing out of the massa and slave dynamic.
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nancy said on September 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm
You need to read Elmore Leonard’s “Tishomingo Blues,” ROgirl. He has as much fun with the idea as anyone ever has.
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Mark P. said on September 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Anyone who thinks those guys aren’t racist just hasn’t talked to them long enough. They are especially racist when it comes to black people who are smarter than they are.
On the other hand, they are equal haters when it comes to poor people.
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ROgirl said on September 15, 2010 at 1:20 pm
That’s one I haven’t read. I’ll get it out of the library.
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 15, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Early South Carolina Confederates wore blue — it took a year, well into 1862, for the colors to get regularized, and it’s well known, especially among Southern re-enactors, that grey was worn much more by officers as a uniform hue. The troops tended to wear homespun butternut, dyed literally with butternuts and other hulls to a muddy brownish-grey.
But I’d bet you cash the state senate fellow is wearing a uniform of the unit that fired on Fort Sumter, or some other more-Confederate than thou regiment which proudly and perversely kept their blue coats well into the Civil War.
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Linda said on September 15, 2010 at 1:40 pm
“She asks the timeless question asked by girls everywhere: If he can please himself, why am I in the picture? Guys, you want to take that one? Maybe Llewd can start us off.”
Since Llewd doesn’t have any hands, maybe he’s not the guy to ask.
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coozledad said on September 15, 2010 at 1:53 pm
Linda: For the smaller ruminants the lack of hands presents no problems. We used to have a lot of goats, and the bucks were constantly chewing themselves off until they achieved “full facial”. They always seemed so proud of their jizzface.
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Little Bird said on September 15, 2010 at 2:17 pm
The number of random hits todays postings are going to generate staggers the mind.
Coozledad, that one almost killed me.
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moe99 said on September 15, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Oh my C’dad. TMI. LoL!
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paddyo' said on September 15, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Jizzface: Ain’t that the new social networking site for onanists?
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Bob (Not Greene) said on September 15, 2010 at 2:31 pm
It’ll be really interesting to see how the elections between Dems and the Tea Party nutcases plays out. I’m guessing voter turnout will be very low, and I wonder whether Republican voters who don’t like these Tea Party loons will vote for a Democrat or simply not show up to vote. If it’s the latter, I can see some of those Tea Party types winning seats. Then we’ll hear all about their revolution and how they’re so in touch when it could be they’re simply driving people away from the polls. Of course, I could be proven wrong if there’s a huge backlash against them from people with principles, but I find I usually can’t count on that.
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prospero said on September 15, 2010 at 2:46 pm
This is something I’ve been thinking about for a long time. Isn’t it time to maker epublicans do the Mr. Smith? Not the threat of a filibuster but the real deal. It’s one thing to “frame” something as a tax increase, make the assholes actually stand up and defend their point.
Make them come clean on what they mean by small businesses, They mean the 3%. Law firms that protect toxic corporations and hedge funds that rob normal people blind. You Deanie Babies that think the first real adult President in eight years just hasn’t done enough? Think about what he has acomplished in the face of racist opposition to everything he’s proposed.
And the judgeship bought by Blankenship. ADM buys bigger.
Look. Obama’s not produced Hope on demand. He was presented a situation that was close to impossible,and insane partisan assholes in congress that do not give a shit about the USA,
These people have allowed themselves to be characterized by Teabaggers. No, they’ve embraced the charactarisation. It is about time to make them do the walk. Republicans wrote the current tax bill, and they wrote the sunset part. They were exceptionally cynical, with the nine year bidness, because they knew it would put this shit outside OMB scrutiny.
So, make these assholes stand up and keep talking on the Senate floor. Really, the President is anti=colonialist? Well, he’s not our color and, well, we’re anti-Jeffersonisn colonialists. If Americans are so fucking dumb they buy this shit then they are way too fucking dumb to vote on anything.
Folks disappointed in Obama, try more than less than two years. Otherwise, you vote for Senator Mountaintopping. That would be Mitch,and his trained monkey, and they never heard of the watershed, and they don’t care.
So you Nancy Nall aficianados? You think there’s no difference? If you votde for a Republican, you’re voting for outright bullshit. That appears to be what they do best. No difference? Youwould have to be an idiot.
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Rana said on September 15, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Bob – I agree. I think it’s at least as likely that people with principles (on both sides) will be too disgusted with the whole thing to even show up.
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Jeff Borden said on September 15, 2010 at 2:53 pm
I think it was the guy who writes Balloon Juice, or maybe tbogg, who posited the theory that we no longer need to worry about external enemies. Our nation is getting so stupid we’ll eventually start licking the electrical outlets. The candidates emerging from the ranks of the teabaggers are just really, really dumb, yet there are enough people smitten by them to get them into the general election.
The Delaware race will be a blast to watch. You have a wingnut who is obsessed with sex and was a former “abstinence counselor,” who has lied about her educational background and who has forgotten to pay taxes on her house for a number of years. Better yet, she filed a $6.5 million lawsuit against a wingnut think tank where she worked when she was passed over for a promotion. I guess the teabaggers will forget their general enmity towards lawyers and lawsuits based on sexual discrimination in the case of Little Miss Whackoff.
Plus, we’ve had an extremely amusing sideshow casting Turdblossom himself, Karl Rove, as an establishment elite because he actually told the truth –a rare instance– that this lunatic cannot be elected. How funny to see Sean Hannity, Mama Malaprop and some of the other fringers blasting away at Bush’s Brain.
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Hattie said on September 15, 2010 at 3:04 pm
I guess masturbation is an exclusively male selfish act, spilling the seed and so on.
Glad I don’t have to worry about that. Gotta go now.
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Sue said on September 15, 2010 at 3:18 pm
I would like to see Miss Delaware get a prolonged and nasty case of pinkeye, just to see Jon Stewart take it and run with it.
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Sue said on September 15, 2010 at 3:20 pm
TPM Headline: ‘Rove, O’Donnell and Palin Get Into Heated Three-Way’
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Bob (Not Greene) said on September 15, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Well, at least Bill Clinton is calling a spade a spade. Dems need to do this more forcefully, though, and really hammer the fuckers. They’re way too nice about it.
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Jenflex said on September 15, 2010 at 3:45 pm
At least Llewd stays within his own species; better than “Bill,” the bull batting clean-up with the AI herd next door to the hayfield my hubby was working this summer. Poor frustrated guy tried to seduce my Honda CR-V when I stopped by to drop off dinner. Thank God I didn’t have to explain THAT one to State Farm!
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Dexter said on September 15, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Even guys who aren’t mostly ass-men are “what-the-HELLing?” over Ms. Inez Sainz
these past couple days.
Dagen McDowell (Imus in the Morning) had a great line today. Ms. Sainz was being interviewed on TV and Dagen said something like ‘we all know what cleavage is but this woman is showing SIDE cleavage…’—and it was true—anyone could see the entire side of her right breast as she had carefully exposed herself by carefull un-doing just the proper buttons.
I believe Inez Sainz simply ain’t got a damn thing wrong with her.
http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10278000/10278207.jpg
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Dexter said on September 15, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Peter@ #4: Hell yes. She has her glazzies squarely on his crank.
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Deborah said on September 15, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Jizz faced goats? Breasts like puppy ears? Can’t wait till tomorrow to read the next description I won’t be able to wipe out of mind all day.
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moe99 said on September 15, 2010 at 4:36 pm
C’dad are you anywhere near Climax, North Carolina? There’s a goat dairy whose cheeses sound quite appealing:
http://www.goatladydairy.com/Products.htm
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Sue said on September 15, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Rush Limbaugh has this to say about helping Ms. O’Donnell win:
“If 51 seats was really the objective — if getting the majority is really that important, then let’s go balls to the wall for Christine O’Donnell!”
That sounds naughty.
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Tom M said on September 15, 2010 at 5:27 pm
watch Christine O’Donnell’s teenage self opposing masturbation.
Always. Trust. Shorter. No way am I getting out of the boat to see that.
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LAMary said on September 15, 2010 at 5:44 pm
“…C’dad are you anywhere near Climax, North Carolina? There’s a goat dairy whose cheeses sound quite appealing:…”
Moe, what did you google to find a goat farm in Climax?
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coozledad said on September 15, 2010 at 5:55 pm
Moe, Mary: We went to “The Wine Authorities” store in Durham today, and while we were there we picked up a container of marinated chevre from Goat Lady dairy, and an herbed chevre from Hillsboro dairy.
When we were milking the sheep we made a decent halloumi, but a lot of the ewes contracted a mastitis that’s endemic to this area (even the cow developed it).
Right now, I’m leaving the dairying to others.
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LAMary said on September 15, 2010 at 6:27 pm
We made herb omelets from the Barefoot Contessa cookbook. You put finely chopped tarragon, chives, chervil in the eggs and a strip of roasted red pepper and some plain chevre down the middle of the eggs, fold the sides over. Very nice. Only three out of four of the household members like goat cheese and that works well for me and the boys.
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Deborah said on September 15, 2010 at 6:47 pm
I’m with your member of the household who doesn’t like goat cheese LAMary. Not really sure what it is about it I don’t like, too strong, too gamey. I just don’t like it. Everyone else around me does, and they say it’s better for those watching their cholesterol levels so I buy it for my husband’s sake.
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Deborah said on September 15, 2010 at 6:49 pm
Bob not G and Rana, I hope you guys are wrong about the voter turnout but my gut tells me, probably not. Damn.
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ROgirl said on September 15, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Le chevre, c’est magnifique.
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Jean S said on September 15, 2010 at 7:00 pm
That photo? I’m with Pat Conroy, who once said “I’m a white, Liberal Southern Democrat. We can hold our convention in kayaks.”
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MarkH said on September 15, 2010 at 7:02 pm
OT, and I’m sure most of you are aware, but thought I’d post this about the death of Edwin Newman:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39193135/ns/today-entertainment/
One more reminder of the departure of civility from TV news. I found it odd that the msnbc site would run the story from AP and not have one of their own do it.
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moe99 said on September 15, 2010 at 7:35 pm
LA Mary: Just serendipity. Making Light has a wonderful post on cheese.
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brian stouder said on September 15, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Well, the jizz-face story taught me from whence the term “old goat” came (so to speak)
But for a real circle jerk of a story, read this one, from Nance’s old paper.
(Actually, just skim it; all you really need is the flavor of the legal tangle, before you get to what can only be described as The Punchline, which is literally the last sentence of the story):
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100915/NEWS/9150355
edit: I saw that Okrent fellow on Book TV, and am inclined to get that prohibition book. Let us know if it is any good
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Deborah said on September 15, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Sorry to be so yesterday, in more ways than one, but I’m reading the latest New Yorker about Tavi of the blog Style Rookie. Very interesting story about the now 14 year old who is quite the little fashionista. She lives in Oak Park, a close in suburb of Chicago. Where have I been the last 3 years? How come I didn’t know about this? OK, I vaguely remember some chatter about her, maybe even at nnc? She really seems to have talent.
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prospero said on September 15, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Christine O’Donnell? Rand Paul? How do you not vote a Democratic slate? These people are not remotely sane. I suppose you shouldn’t be elected unless you went to several schools before you actually got a degree. The Cheney effect. And y’all insist there’s no difference between the parties?
When Naderites and navel-gazing John Anderson voters put whackos and nutcases in charge, we all get screwed. Just steal Ohio and Florida and appoint Michelle Bachman president. Holy shit. It would make things easier.
Americans are way too stupid to vote. And voters in Delaware sure proved it by voting for somebody certifiable. And that’s the GOP. Measnwhile, Mitch wants to increase the deficit by $4trillion. How stupid are voters?
And those small businesses Republicans keep talking about? They mean white shoe law firms and hedge funds. That’s an absolute fact, Jack.
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prospero said on September 15, 2010 at 9:20 pm
Sharron Angle? She is nuts, and she’s the face of the modern GOP. And Americans are fucking morons? Here’s the deal. If you vote for a Republican for anything, you are voting for the self-identified O’Reilly white older Christian heterosexuals. Do you realy want to cast that vote?
Progressives bailing on Obama a year and a half in is such amazing omphalopsis. Are you joking? It took eight years to get here. If you demand complete results at thi point, you validate the Party of hell no.
Consider the alternatives. Republicans in charge of reining in Wall Street? Well we tried that and it was serious FUBAR.
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coozledad said on September 15, 2010 at 9:22 pm
Deborah: Lemon juice or herbs sort of sidetrack that flavor, but the essence of a lot of goat cheeses is goat spunk. I don’t know why cow and sheep’s milk get a pass. Tastewise they’re mostly the product of their constituent sugars and fats.
I thought at one point I could detect a lanolin taste in sheep’s milk and cheese, but it’s very slight. I still think a fromage d’affinois(de brebis) with black pepper is about the best cheese there is (along with Cambozola blue). But that’s pure prejudice.
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Linda said on September 15, 2010 at 9:31 pm
It’s not that lots of Obama voters from 2 years ago will vote Republican, but a lot will sit home because they are not excited. But political participation is a long, hard slog. People have a consumerist mentality about public participation. Talk show host Tom Leykis once complained that people think that working on public issues “is like ordering a pizza. Let’s call Tom!” People voted once for Obama, and want life to be immediately different. But you have to participate on a consistant level, even when you’re not “excited,” and even when change takes a long time, and is not exactly what you wanted it to be like. People feel entitled to stamp their feet when the model they get is not exactly what they want. But the alternative could be worse.
But I think maybe we lost our nerve, too. People want stuff to be better, without being different. Sometimes, it has to be different and scary to get better.
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Jolene said on September 15, 2010 at 9:41 pm
Interesting to hear that Clinton is campaigning for Taryl Clark, Michelle Bachmann’s opponent. She needs all the help she can get. Last I heard, Bachmann was running the most expensive campaign in the country, and she was 16 points ahead. Doesn’t sound like she’s going to be leaving the spotlight soon.
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prospero said on September 15, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Does Newt, the well-known and serial philanderer and draft-dodger really want to bring up sobriety when the guy he helped steal the presidency for was a well-known drunk? Seriously.
Seriously, how many of you believe W ever showed up at the guard? You know he did not, but that didn’t keep him from attacking the war record of his opponent. There is no possibility of being a more disgusting POS.
How in hell do Republicans get away with the chickenhawk shit? Raygun famously said he was at a death camp. No, he wasn’t. Either that was Oldtimers way back then or he was just a flat-out liar.
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prospero said on September 15, 2010 at 9:55 pm
Jolene.
There is nobody in a position of power that is more full-goose loony than Michelle Bachman. Buying her seat is probably a lot like Blankenship buying the Kentucky Supreme Court. The question would be, what motivates these aholes? They’re evil? There doesn’t really seem to be another explanation, other than greed. They are sure as shit racists, and she is sure as shit either looney or non compos.
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moe99 said on September 15, 2010 at 11:14 pm
Michelle Bachmann’s District has always been right wing Republican. My mother and her family hail from there. Charles Lindbergh’s father was the US Representative and he’s not got a very good reputation (which might explain ol’ Charles’numerous affairs and illegitimate children disclosed after his death–like father, like son)
father:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_August_Lindbergh
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Peter said on September 16, 2010 at 8:48 am
Goat jizz? Climax NC? Don’t you know that a kitten dies every time you say bad things about Christine O’Donnell?
And Prospero, “navel gazing John Anderson Voters”? You can kiss my navel gazing John Anderson voters ass, buddy.
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Julie Robinson said on September 16, 2010 at 9:02 am
I was permanently turned off any goat product when our son had to switch to goat’s milk for a while as a baby. Goat’s milk spit-up and poo have an odor that is beyond “earthy” and “organic”.
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velvet goldmine said on September 16, 2010 at 11:42 am
I’m guessing the people in the photo are Gullah, since the man has a washboard instrument strapped around his neck. I spent my summmers on Sullivans Island, and going to see the Gullah basketmakers in Charleston was the big Saturday treat. (They, like every other vender, sold at the former slave market, but still.)
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