Checking the signal on Lake St. Clair.
brian stouder said on August 16, 2008 at 4:18 pm
At first I thought that was a tan line on the visible left foot; but then I noticed that the line continues onto the foredeck!
Say – one could sail from D-town to Sandusky, yes? (leaving aside whatever outrageous fees one might have to pay to put in, there)
caliban said on August 16, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Coasterpalooza was pretty entertaining. Why do people like ’em? Double shot of adrenaline with endorphins chaser. Or maybe it’s the human compulsion to make metaphor the massage. Everybody know’s life’s a roller coaster, ad nauseam generally. Life is a carnival, if you ask Robbie and Levon, and my personal favorite is “Life is like a beanstalk, isn’t it?” from Keith Reed and Procol Harum.
When the conversation gravitated toward coaster maintenance, I started to feel queasy, and I never feel that way hurtling upside down at high speeds. It was the proximity of heaven in facing death-defying amusement park ‘attractions’ (they make ‘beverages’ more ‘appetizing’), where you might be importuned by stereotypical aholes including a plagiarizing Detroit sportswriter.
But then, life as ride on roller coaster made a perfect penultimate scene in Steve Martin’s masterpiece Parenthood. And just ask the Ohio Players about love and roller coasters. The American economy has been up and down, but if somebody wants to make Alan Greenspan and Bernanke the kindly Capraesque maintenance guys, I’m gonna hope that most of the time a roller coaster is just a thrill ride, because they seem more like that gremlin on the wing in the Twilight Zone
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on August 16, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Will you have any commentary on the Saddleback Forum with McCain and Obama? I was at a community picnic and missed it, but i’m looking forward to a summary . . . having checked Atrios, Kos, and Sullivan, this event seemed to have pushed some buttons.
Dexter said on August 17, 2008 at 9:15 am
I had not read where the severed-foot phenomenon had spread from the Pacific Northwest to Lake St. Clair. Nice catch!
brian stouder said on August 17, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Sailblogging looks fun, but one shouldn’t do it when under the influence of M&M’s…
caliban said on August 17, 2008 at 12:45 pm
I think this is a reliable link to the transcript:
Jeff, turns out that, for some reason, we recorded it. My opinion: Obama was thoughtful, which quality will be mildly denigrated in press analysis as ‘nuanced’. McCain seemed rehearsed to the point of being canned. OF course, Obama went first, and it’s entirely likely that McCain’s handlers employed some electronic sur4veillance skullduggery and just cut and pasted from the old fart’s stump speech.
Most inane question from Ranger, I mean Reverend Rick: What level of income constitutes being rich. McCain actually put the figure at $5mil, which should strike anlysts as tone deaf at the Roseanne National Anthem level.
Interesting theological note: Preacher asked both candidates “Does evil exist, and if so, do we ignore it, do we negotiate with it, do we contain it, or do we defeat it?”
One of these answers is theologically sound, in line with Augustine and Thomas Aquinas and Reinhold Niebuhr. One seems perilously close to embodying the cardinal sin of pride. Fathers of modern Christian thinking or deposed archangel. You be the judge.
Of course, we watch with our biases and antipathies intact.
Maggie said on August 17, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I haven’t heard that the fees to put in in Sandusky are any worse than any other coast town! We were happily surprised to find that Huron had very reasonable dock fees with good amenities too!
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on August 17, 2008 at 4:37 pm
I would love to have a few words from Niebuhr on McCain (he would not be approving, but not as critical as you might think), and i did hear an echo in Obama’s wording (i had found the transcript, but thanks for the link!) that made me think Barack has read a little Reinhold.
Clarity on wealth and pride, advantage Obama; clarity on abortion, McCain. Which sums up the two parties as they stand pretty well. As a person accused of nuance quite often myself (and not in a good way), the core concern of religious conservatives is that pro-life/anti-abortion is seen as the rights question that undergirds all the others.
There’s room for a — that word again — nuanced approach, since while most religious conservatives say rights begin at conception, most would say (quietly) not all rights do. Bush (not to provoke anybody) was trying to edge into nuance over the howls of the Dobson brigade with his August 2001 speech on stem-cell policy, but events swamped that canoe.
Either party could still get into that broad, stable middle ground where most of America lives, but they have to ignore the loud hooting from their respective owls in the treetops out on the limbs’ end.
But as the Giant would say, “the owls are not what they seem.” Anyhow, thanks for your thoughtful take, C-ban.
caliban said on August 17, 2008 at 8:16 pm
I was heartened to discern direct echoes of Jimma Ed’s favorite philosopher priest in Obama’s suggestion we can all be soldiers in creation’s movement to defeat evil. This is a unifying thread of refined and annealed gold in the works of Paul Tillich and the Process theologians. Teillhard too, although he sees it more as imperfection to be made ultimately perfect.
These guys are theologians by trade and critical acclaim, but I always figured they were really philosophers with a particular point of view and intellectual foundation. I suppose that’s nuance, but I can’t comprehend any way that’s a weakness and not a prerequisite for valid investigation of human essence, soul, condition, or the institutions and social constructs those real considerations that sentience and self-awareness render inevitable.
The soldier metaphor stirs my Jesuit soul, and I think it’s instructive that Black Liberation Theology is a tactical target for the disciples of Rove, after the Reagan administration attempted to murder the Jesuit and Maryknoll white liberation theologians in the 80s. Now, the purveyors of Iran-Contra were evil, bankers for murderers and dope cartels, assassins in their own right. Until it ceased to serve his purposes in hard-core neicin circles, McCain clutched Kerry’s coattails (how’s that for inspired alliteration?). When that became a liability, it hit the rubbish pile like the corpse of a raped nun in Guatemala.
In this way, I ‘m standing on solid rock (petros) when I insist on being both pro-life and pro-choice, and a devout Catholic. (And gutdom, I take a load of grief and derision, but if to deny the coexistence of these two imperatives seems to me the height of intellectual indolence. Christ’s teachings found politically inconvenient and not tried.)
At Saddleback, McCain told the story of the closeted Christian Vietnamese Guard at Hua Lo Prison, on Christmas Day. I’ll tell you, I believe in David Bowie and Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence more than I believe in this. Maybe it happened, but I’m genetically predisposed to believe he’s lying his ass off.
In the modern world, manufactured perception trumps reality. As the great nuanced Armenian folk artist Tonio K says:
but love got twisted
and the streets got mean
now everybody’s got their secret
as the night comes down like a guillotine.
So it’s August and we count down to “ecstacy, when sympathy is all the situation wants”. In 2004, when I heard Obama’s stemwinder (a linguistically gorgeous term that should have been retired to the political Hall of Fame with Teddy’s plaque, but voters in democracies know what they want, and they’ve got glass jaws).
Somehow John Edwards’ infidelity is supposed by “pundits” (or “pundints” as the pretzledent of the Nunined Sates likes to say–can’t this ahole speak reasonable English?–, well, what’s he got to do with anything, and how ’bout Dan ‘Scumbag’ Burton. The Youthful Indsicretion thing for Republicans is like eating dirt in public. Maybe, Republicans love the Edwards story because there’s a cancer connection to Newt’s biography. But Edwards didn’t abandon his wife and present her with divorce papers while she was receiving chemo
Anyway, Jeff, McCain has no theological leg to stand on as I see things. He’s made an ass of himself by targeting Osama. 9 aND GOOD GRIEF, w SAID HE COULDN’T CARE LESS==what is wrong with the idiots?In the 21st Century, nations don’t invade Pakistan, they threaten Russia for doing exactly the same thing Bush and the New Centurions did invading Iraq.
It doesn’t take a nuanced analysis to figure this was the idea when Reagan and his henchmen decided to trash elected governments in Central America. It’s not really difficult to understand that Kerry became Target 1 for his skill and dogged pursuit of truth. Now, if really dumb American voters weren’t abject sheep, and if Americans in general didn’t cower in fear, how could the little turd that declared “Mission Accomplished” have snaked 2004. It’s entirely possible he didn’t and Diebold made it happen, but if that’s the case, Why Is America Sleeping.
Americans like the idea of war heroes being elected. McCain rained down terror, and somehow managed to get his ass shot down. If I were Pastor Rick, I’d ask John McCain if he ever dropped napalm and he be foregiven? Would you take a courts-marshall, see your career come to an end, to avoid responsibility for incinerating and maiming innocents?
Kerry’s well out of this. His heroic behavior and his service is obvious. Anybody interested in disputing this, I’ll give you ciirdinates abd U wukk kick your ass.He ran an honorable and truthful campaign. Jobbed by scum like Karl Rove, a draft dodger, and Cheney, a draft dodger extraordinaire. So what does that mean about the efficacy of voting in America? Voter’s are so fucking stupid it’s mind-numbing.
Now. For anybody still reading and believes reading on the net is reading. Kerry absolutely nailed the Raygunista bastards. His work if you choose to explore it , exposed corruption Nixon never dreamed of. It exposed INSLAw, and the murder of a family friend of mine. The ‘October Surprise’ was a gven for these traitors. They most assuredly made sure the Great Communicator was inhogurated, for cash and weapons.
Deal is, Kweey caught thir anti-American asses. Cod awmighty, they hated him and there was no slime that couldb’t be considered.
Here’s the deal. Kenneth Blackwell fucked with the manikis or people believed Kerry wasn’t in fact a hero. What exactly is wrong with the idea that Kerry was a hero? His cimpatriots say he waded into danger. Are those guys left-wing liars? Assholes. He was a hero, he saved guy’s lives. How ’bout W’s VietNam experience.
There’s no way of comparing in real time. Know why? W was always out of the mix. I wouldn’t say he’s a coward. I never had any idea of going anywhere. The idea was heinous, the war was just wrong. The little shit thought it was right but somebody else ought to take it to the enemy. Same as his dad, when he bailed out on his best friend, same as W when it seemed to threaten the O’Clubs stock.
caliban said on August 17, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Waht the hey.
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on August 17, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Uh-oh — there are actually two of us on this blog who have read process theology? We’d have to take that one off-line, before Whitehead and Hartshorne and Meland and Griffin and Suchoki swamp the dialogue.
Can i say that while i don’t agree myself, i can absolutely respect someone trying to maintain pro-choice and pro-life simultaneously (my raja guru Soren K., the Great Dane, would understand), and i think much of America is looking for a candidate like that . . . if pro-life is allowed to hold the benefit of the doubt, rather than the other way around.
Which is my quibble with Obama — if you really aren’t sure (as in, it could be either way), then isn’t the smart money on erring on the side of life? That’s where Joe and Jane Average are at. They want government not to tell people what to do, but they are profoundly uncomfortable with termination as the default mode. Allow abortion, but don’t assume abortion as a primary solution to the challenges of pregnancy. Provide contraception, but don’t make birth control the core message (abstinence, not abstinence-only).
And all the pro-lifers i see at work, let alone know personally, in this little hunk of Ohio, spend lots of time and money and their own involvement directly helping poor moms or supporting adoption. The myth of conservatives who don’t care after the baby is born is at least as false as the Kerry who didn’t show courage in Vietnam — whatever exceptions you can pick on don’t obviate the general truth of things. Kerry was a brave sailor, theocons help women in trouble and scorn clinic protestors, and McCain was known by myriad many in prison as a bold and courageous man.
caliban said on August 17, 2008 at 10:19 pm
So what’s the deal Nancy? Genteel d’ont get it. It does not behoobe you to stand apart when one patyy reaches out and the other talks like wormtongue. I know where I stand. It’s with telling the truth. Do you think the bastards told the truth about Kerry;s war record? ? And know what I say, W is so despicable a coward, let the little shit compare his Viet record with Kerry’s. Ptoblem is voters are so damed stupid.
So is there some way the Agora can come through and name the democratic choice? Not in eight billion years.
But there are people that make us embrace the future. Michael Phelps in that one you thought he lost. In swimming, fetting touched out happens all the time. The second made a bad decission. He goy youched out. These things happen. If you’d ever been a swimmer, you’d know. Glide vs, chop, not even close.
I thought I understood this.
‘t get it.
caliban said on August 17, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Don’t know what to say@kat i bleyve. All of creation is God becoming God.
MichaelG said on August 17, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Caliban, I happen to agree with much of what you say. What I can discern anyway. There are raised dots on the “F” and “J” keys to guide your fingers. I must, however, take exception to your criticism of McCain’s war record. Yeah, he dropped bombs. Yeah, the bombs may have killed whomever they may have killed. He may not have been the greatest flier the world has ever seen but then anybody who flies off a carrier is a better than average pilot. Being downed by a missile doesn’t mean he was a lousy pilot. Many excellent fliers have suffered the same fate. He carried the weapons loads he was assigned and he flew the missions he was assigned as did thousands of other pilots. By the nature of things there is a certain detachment between the pilot of an attack aircraft and the results of his efforts. This has been true since the introduction of indirect fire weapons in the Roman era and was true with the primitive bombers of WWI and is true today with the current generation of attack aircraft. There are plenty of points on which to attack McCain and his idiocies. This is not one of them. Please drop it.
I was in the same war at the same time. I served in a five man recon team and later in a line company. I had many occasions to call in air strikes from both fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft. Sometimes I was able to specify the ordinance we desired for the situation we faced, sometimes we took what was available. Unlike Sen. McCain and probably most of the NN.C regulars I know intimately the smell and the heat and the gruesome results of a napalm strike. The Smell. God. Certainly I was as guilty as Sen. McCain in putting napalm on the ground. I’ll admit to being sensitive on this subject. Hate me if you wish.
Jeff, your holier than thou, smug, self satisfied “I’m the intellectual, fatherly voice of reason and sobriety on NN.C and my life is dedicated to doing good unlike the rest of you” act is wearing thin. Something has changed your posts in the last several months. I liked the Jeff of last year a whole lot better than the current paternal right wing apologist you seem to have become.
“Clarity on abortion, McCain”. I heard both statements and Obama was just as clear as McCain on the subject and more thoughtful to boot. I know you don’t agree with Obama but you can’t with honesty say that he was unclear about what he thought. But then your statement exemplifies right wing rhetorical techniques, doesn’t it? Obama attempted, successfully I think, to articulate the difficulty of the decision a woman is confronted with when facing an unplanned and perhaps unwanted pregnancy. Pro choice is emphatically not pro abortion. Obama in no way advocated abortion as a substitute to thoughtful planning and careful acting. The problems and the difficulties of making a decision to carry or abort are unique to each woman and couple and situation. They’re not something to make light of or to brush aside. Women who have abortions are not thoughtless, godless heathens. It’s an awful, horrible decision but it’s her decision.
Smart money “erring on the side of life”? If you think the “myth of conservatives who don’t care after the baby is born is … false” you haven’t been looking at the reality of the harsh life of the young single mom. Time and again the Republicans in legislature after legislature have defeated efforts to provide money, food and medical care for low/no income single moms. Yours is a strange position for someone who purports to be a caring provider of goodness, help and counsel to the unfortunate.
Shit. I got sucked into the controversial again. I’ve been trying to stay out of it, but . . . oh well.
One more thing: Michael Phelps may have eight gold medals but I can tell you that he owes at least two cases of the very best to Jason Lezak.
moe99 said on August 18, 2008 at 3:10 am
I went to law school w/ a guy who flew helicopters in VN. He said they had some sort of radar that would ping when the anti aircraft would lock on them and they had x no. of seconds to get out of the way. He said it was interesting to be stoned up there, but it was really amazing to be flying when one was dropping acid. He said that lots of those who flew used either dope or acid or worse.
caliban said on August 18, 2008 at 3:20 am
Yoh, Jeff, and against all odds, I remain Catholic and Teillhardian in a sort of windhover sort of way. We did’nt think much about Edna St,
Millay. Until recntly, when this idea about holding chaos to 14 linwa caaaaame to our attention. I know it sounds ridiculous, but we are plural .
Let me say this as a former swimmer, Michael Phelps owes one relay to Lezak. The other, he swam a 50.15 fly , and Jason lost .05 on that lead. Acting like Phelps was somehow Spitzian demeans our sport. Nobody cheats nobody on water except in diving.
The .01? Every swimmer knows you take it to the wall. This happens frequently, and getting touched out is not uncommon. You come in lazy, you lose, and talk big in the aftermath. . What Phelps did is how you win. What anybody else did is how you lose, and recriminations are ludicrous. Try those races when Phelps was rested, you jerks. Ass handed to you, monsieur.
Jason Lezak won the one. Phelps won the other. Fifty almost flat? Ask an actual swimmer. That’s in another world, and in that relay, Phelp’s won the gold for his teammates.
caliban said on August 18, 2008 at 3:45 am
I’m rereading the Rings, Jeff. I aaalways thought Keith Reid had this perfectly:
You’d better listen anybody, ‘cos I’m gonna make it clear
that my life is unimportant; what I’ve done I did through fear
There’s a river running through me: on its tide I tried to hide
nonetheless I could not shake it, and in the end it swept aside
all my feeble unimportance. I can’t say it, never mind
Can’t you hear me mother calling you? I’m cold, I’m deaf, I’m blind
And if only ‘cos you’re lucky, we both know that’s no find
I did think I’d be an actor. What I am I’ll leave behind
You’d better listen anybody, ‘cos it’s me and you –that’s it
and in case you find your maker perhaps you’ll plead for us a bit
All my sick is in my stomach, all my sweat is clearly fear
and if you could see inside me I don’t think you’d have me here
Tell the helmsman veer to starboard, bring this ship around to port
and if the sea was not so salty I could sink instead of walk
And in case of passing strangers who are standing where I fell
tell the truth: you never knew me, and in truth it’s just as well
Could be Jesus. Mission in transition, Mission accomplished, that’s Boromir’s call, and pride comes before a fall. Interesting that McCain iwll hunt evil down, swear I’ve heard that before, dur W lost interest.
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on August 18, 2008 at 8:03 am
Michael, guilty as charged. I get frustrated with how often i hear that conservatives don’t actually care about children or pregnant women (not as often here as elsewhere) and probably overcompensate. I don’t want to be bragging on my own merits, just to refute the running theme that Bush and McCain supporters aren’t “in the game.” On this blog, i’ve made that point, and i know y’all aren’t arguing it.
C-ban and i will go back to swapping Hopkins allusions, and i promise to make more archaeology comments in the future. But living in a vehemently Obama-centric town has bought me a tense summer, and i’m sorry it showed up here.
I would love to see some of those specific “R’s cut money to low income single moms” though . . . hey, i’m still a skanky GOPer, and slowing growth of spending isn’t cutting spending. Medicaid is a budgetary disaster, and that’s on the state level, where the steel belteds hit the potholes.
MichaelG said on August 18, 2008 at 9:06 am
Caliban, I’ll defer to your greater knowledge of swimming.
Jeff, sorry I got carried away.
I live in the state with the worst budget problems in the country. Because of an almost unique requirement for a two thirds majority passing a budget every year is a drama. The budget was due on July 1. We still don’t have one. The genius’ under the dome are still wrangling. The movie should be entitled “When Idiots Collide”. The Governor (yes, him) has signed an executive order reducing State employees’ wages to the federal minimum. That means that at the end of the month I’ll get paid $1152.80. Gross. The Republicans are always talking about cutting spending. Two problems here. One is that everybody wants the same level of service but that level can’t be sustained without something goes up. DMV for example. How can the DMV be expected to provide a level of service to our current population similar to what they provided in 1998 with the same number of employees they had in 1998? Something has to give. The second thing is that somewhere around 90% of State funds are committed to one program or another before the budget is signed. That leaves only 10% or so discretionary. Any cuts have to come out of that small pot. Guess whose ox gets gored — severely. Right. Those without legions of lobbyists. So every year the victims are the young, the elderly, the disabled and the destitute. Happens every time. It’s going to be a tough couple of weeks for a lot of people who work for the State. What’s the plural of “genius”?
nancy said on August 18, 2008 at 10:01 am
Michael, do you have a PayPal account? I’ll lead a campaign to get you through the month: “You can help a California state worker impoverished by the legislature…or you can turn the page.”
MichaelG said on August 18, 2008 at 10:49 am
Thanks, I’ll be fine. I have a corner reserved in old town where I’ll be selling pencils to tourists on weekends.
Catherine said on August 18, 2008 at 12:22 pm
The plural is “genii.” Too bad there are none to be found in the legislative halls of Sacto.
MichaelG, I’ll bring some banana bread, we can have a pencil/bake sale.
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on August 18, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Michael, you weren’t carried away a’tall. Candor is coin of the realm here, which is what keeps us reg’lrs all coming back.
LAMary said on August 18, 2008 at 2:05 pm
I’ve got to deal with the DMV on Friday and I understand that even with an appointment we may be looking at a two or three hour visit thanks to our lack of a state budget.
brian stouder said on August 18, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Well you know – we have hospitals here in Indiana, Mary; and prisons, too – Michael. Given what you could get for your houses in California, you could probably buy a McMansion in Allen County, Indiana, and still have money left over….plus no more wild fires, mudslides, earthquakes, or government shutdowns.
But you would have snow to shovel and windows to scrape sometimes (forget about public mass-transit), and a doltish Republican congressman to deal with!
LAMary said on August 18, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Selling the house here would be problematic, Brian. My neighborhood is not full of foreclosures, but the houses that have for sale signs seem to be sitting there for a pretty long time.
Snow does not bother me, and I have two teenaged sons for snow shoveling duty. You don’t have any cool famous people there, though, and I never was that big a fan of James Whitcomb Riley.
brian stouder • caliban • Jeff (the mild-mannered one) • Dexter • brian stouder • caliban • Maggie • Jeff (the mild-mannered one) • caliban • caliban • Jeff (the mild-mannered one) • caliban • caliban • MichaelG • moe99 • caliban • caliban • Jeff (the mild-mannered one) • MichaelG • nancy • MichaelG • Catherine • Jeff (the mild-mannered one) • LAMary • brian stouder • LAMary • and YOU.
nancynall.com is created and produced on Macs and other Mac-like devices. All content ©2020 Nancy Nall Derringer, All rights reserved.