Creative differences.

School started today, and I’m a busy person these days, so not much from me. On today’s to-do list: Write treatment for short zombie film; track down Hollywood producer/director last seen in Michigan. I hasten to add these two jobs are unrelated. And to think I could have been a dental hygienist.

(The other day our director called to say, “I called Dan, just to pick his brain.” Ha ha ha.)

All I’m going to leave you with today is this:

Culture wars suck. It’s pointless, enervating and takes time and energy away from important matters. And yet, like gorging on potato chips and chocolate-covered peanuts, it’s hard to stay away. So when I broke my internet diet and dropped in on Rod Dreher, I wasn’t surprised to read this:

I’m listening to three young blogger-radio reporters from a lefty Canadian radio program (lots of “aboot” in the air) talk about their day. They’re on the other side of the blue curtain here, so I don’t know what they look like. One was just on the phone coordinating with “the Socialist World people.” A woman reporter from the site just joined the two guys. She’s been out reporting, and said she talked to an Evangelical about Bristol Palin’s pregnancy.

“She was really beautiful,” the woman said. “This pregnancy thing hasn’t turned them off. If anything, it’s rallying them to embrace her.” The reporter said this as if it well and truly was shocking. She wasn’t being condescending at all; she was really shocked. She spoke with the amazement of an anthropology grad student on her first dig.

Well, of course. Being foreigners, their knowledge of the United States isn’t as deep as ours, and so they assume that when people are willing to spend decades of their lives talking about teenage sluts who don’t deserve birth control and HPV vaccines (“the slut shot” — I’d never heard that charming turn of phrase before this week; thanks, Free Republic!), they might back it up when the chips are down. Stupid foreigners. Spend a little more time in this country, and you might learn a thing or two about the breathtaking hypocrisy of these folks. If Hillary Clinton really wanted to back Barack Obama, she’d cut a very simple 30-second spot right around now, laying out five random facts about Sarah Palin, and add, “Imagine what they’d be saying if I was the one who did these things.” Fade out.

I am looking forward to seeing the newest Palin son-in-law (almost) tonight, who I understand has now dropped out of high school. This story keeps getting better.

Posted at 10:38 am in Current events, Media, Same ol' same ol' |

103 responses to “Creative differences.”

  1. coozledad said on September 3, 2008 at 11:11 am

    You sort of wonder how they’ll keep Larry Craig away from Levi “fuckin’ redneck” Johnston. Strikes me as his type: Broad, shallow, and stupid. The eternal stranger.
    Oh well. Should resonate with that throng of daddy-issues victims; especially if they let him mumble something.
    He could give the “Drill here-drill now” speech.

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  2. paddyo' said on September 3, 2008 at 11:27 am

    Love the imaginary Hillary-for-Barack ad. I’d chip in for that one. And “breathtaking hypocrisy” nails it. My biggest fear, however, is the drumbeat for “regular gal” like the crap we heard eight years ago about Dubyuh as a good ol’ boy you’d love to have a beer with. While a disturbingly large portion of the electorate is off enjoying brewskis with these Bozos, the house is burning down. I’m not sure I trust that bunch of my fellow Americans to throw off their collective amnesia this time around. Amazing, ain’t it? What ought to be a slam-dunk winner conceivably could become a buzzer-beater, and who knows which way the game goes?
    Hope I’m wrong about that, Nance . . .

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  3. Gasman said on September 3, 2008 at 11:30 am

    While most Americans are not overly fond of arrogance, mendacity, and incompetency from their elected political officials, we’ve come to expect those traits to a high degree from those in office. I maintain, however, that the reason that the Republicans lost so badly in 2006 is because people have grown exceedingly wearisome of their rank hypocrisy. I truly believe that the Republicans’ hypocritical bloviating has just gotten too insufferable for most Americans to endure any longer. And yet, with all of the official packaged b.s. regarding Gov. Palin, they just keep making the manure pile even bigger. McCain and Co. truly think that the electorate in this country are nothing but inbred morons.

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  4. mark said on September 3, 2008 at 11:33 am

    What is the pleasure derived from celebrating others problems or simply throwing obscenities at people you don’t even know? It doesn’t advance any debate or clarify any issue. I doubt that our blogmistress counts among her mentors many known mainly for their ability to drown opposing voices by dragging them into a cesspool and clubbing them with expletives.

    Really, when you [Nancy] have the ability to write of interesting things with insight and charm, what value do you get from the side trips into vulgarity and gratuitous nastiness?

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  5. alex said on September 3, 2008 at 11:36 am

    McCain and Co. truly think that the electorate in this country are nothing but inbred morons.

    And the electorate keeps proving them right.

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  6. coozledad said on September 3, 2008 at 11:38 am

    The ghost of Thomas Eagleton is a bitch, ain’t it Mark. Go listen to Limbaugh. He’ll reinforce your sense of self.
    Oh, and McCain just called: Your monogrammed eggcup is in the mail.

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  7. Gasman said on September 3, 2008 at 11:41 am

    Just found this link:

    Apparently, Gov. Palin has clearly stamped the imprimatur of Jesus Christ on the Iraq war. And we should accept that she is ready to be commander-in-chief? It’s a holy crusade for this pretty simpleton.

    Interestingly, her former pastor has also revealed that Jesus was not the “Prince of Peace” like we all had been taught. Jesus was actually in “war mode” and we should be too. Hmm. If Obama’s association with a controversial pastor is fair game, so should Palin’s with this theological genius.

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  8. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 3, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Rod, anthropology students go on their first field observation; it’s archaeology students who go on their first dig.

    Sorry, had to point that out. We don’t wear fedoras or carry bullwhips, either (a remarkable number do wear well worn leather jackets, but i’ve never asked how many pack heat).

    Beer drinking — that would be the one commonality across the archaeological spectrum.

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  9. Colleen said on September 3, 2008 at 11:58 am

    I heard someone on the radio today praise Palin because “she’s like us, I can identify with her!” Ugh. I don’t WANT my VP to be like me. I want her to be a lot smarter, a lot more educated, and a lot more open and informed.

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  10. LAMary said on September 3, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    I wish she was a little more like me. She’s nothing like me right now. She’s one of those people I nod and smile to and avoid conversations with after the first encounter. She probably thinks I need to be saved.

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  11. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 3, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    I know it doesn’t help a bit that these come by way of Jonah Goldberg, but hey — i think they’re funny:

    From —

    We don’t know who would win in a Chuck Norris – Sarah Palin cage match because they’ve never invented a cage that can hold Sarah Palin.

    Little known fact: Sarah Palin would have just had an Eagle drop the Ring into Mount Doom.

    Little known fact: If placed into Schroedinger’s experiment, both Sarah Palins remain alive.

    Sarah Palin is why compasses point north.

    (Jonah comment added): Nothing can stop this sort of thing from taking on a life on its own on the web — except Sarah Palin.

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  12. brian stouder said on September 3, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    [Detached mode: ON]

    Governor Palin has her charms – and her newness gaurantees HUGE news coverage (ie – “free media”), which is generally better than being ignored, when running for national office.

    But, everything we learn about her is a surprise, for better or for worse. It took Obama several weeks to absorb the hits about his church, and now there is a video of the governor speaking in her church, and making many ‘interesting’ remarks about God.

    By way of saying, the introduction/reaction process is compressed now, and whatever impression the governor makes over the next week is likely going to be “it”, to the end.

    On the whole “experience” criteria, I still say that the only non-incumbent who ran for the office and could claim to have any useful “experience” was Grover Cleveland.

    I would add, though, that the experience of running a national primary campaign and literally criss-crossing America from north to south and east to west – and winning that campaign (as Senator Obama has done) – at least provides a few stripes on the ‘experience’ scale (the national candidate certainly has some real sense of how big and diverse America really is); and to that extent, picking another person who has gone through a presidential run of their own (such as Biden) makes more sense, generally, than picking a national cipher, and then hoping that the pick is accepted as a freshly discovered national treasure

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  13. Scout said on September 3, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    Brian… what you said. That’s it in a nutshell. The whole nanny nanny boo boo from the right about “experience” conveniently ignores the fact that the Democrats as a mass movement chose Obama, (who then made a very thoughtful and sane choice with Biden in #2 position) while McCain pandered with his rash pick of the apparently unvetted Palin. Breath of fresh air? Code talk for ‘doesn’t know shit from shinola.’ Happy talk for “we’re goin’ down.”

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  14. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 3, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Sarah Palin once bagged a caribou by staring it down until it died.

    Sarah Palin fishes salmon by convincing them it’s in their interest to jump into the boat.

    Sarah Palin once guided Santa’s sleigh through an Alaskan blizzard with the light from her smile.

    {Jeff — oh, c’mon, laugh . . . she’s gonna lose anyhow, right?}

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  15. alex said on September 3, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    It’s a wonder they didn’t attempt to spin Palin’s bastard grandchild as an immaculate conception. (Or maybe that’s the backup plan if skater dude don’t pass the paternity test.)

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  16. LAMary said on September 3, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Sarah Palin tried to ban books in her local library and tried to fire the librarian when she wouldn’t cooperate. The list of books includes Mark Twain and Shakespeare.

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  17. Laura said on September 3, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    When my 14-year-old daughter got her first (it’s a series of three) HPV shot, she exclaimed, “Awesome! I’m going out to have sex right now!” Smartass.

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  18. Jolene said on September 3, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    I wish I found alll this funny, Jeff, but for McCain to toss out Palin, whose hiistory yields one contradiction from the claims she has made and the claims that have been made about her after another and then scream “Unfair!” when people begin to ask questions and point out these contradictions is really too much.

    John McCain is a selfish, insincere jerk. This choice shows that he doesn’t care about Sarah Palin, and he doesn’t care about the rest of us either. He hopes that there are enough “low-information voters” who will be attracted to this new face and put off by the “attacks” of the dreaded liberal media to put them over the top. It’s beyond insulting.

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  19. jcburns said on September 3, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Jeff, please don’t recycle old twitters, or I’ll be compelled to toss in some “Little Known Fact” twitters about Sarah Palin that you’ve..uh..left out.
    They’re really not even in the tri-state area of funny.

    (Taking deep breath)
    Jeez, Nance, I wish you hadn’t linked to Rod Dreher, who I dutifully read and then found myself commenting on one of his posts, where he was trying to say that Governor Palin was just exhorting folks to pray that what we’re doing in Iraq is in accordance with God’s plan…for what we should be doing in Iraq. (Is she saying that it is?)

    Anyway, I hit the comment button and typed:


    Until this becomes a full-fledged theocracy, I don’t want any of my elected officials exhorting prayer, or sending young men and women into harm’s way under any pretense that it’s in synchronization with their perceptions of an Almighty’s plan.

    This is so wrongheaded.

    So what happens when what we do as a country is not “in accord with the will of God”? Is God cool with waterboarding? Where does God draw the line?

    I’m all for having a rich community filled with religious leaders of many faiths…and their faithful. Can we please also have political leaders, and keep them separate? Can we have a citizenry…a collection of citizens, and not make religious belief be a criterion for full-fledged citizenship?

    “The Lord told me to gather money from the people to repair this sewer system.”
    “The Lord’s plan is that we refuse to give our daughters options when they become pregnant, and persecute them when they wish to pursue options that their parents don’t believe in.”
    “The Lord’s plan is that we attack followers of Islam, because they don’t believe as we do.”

    Can we please have political leaders who realize that the phrase “under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance…recently, in historical terms…for political reasons?

    Can we please realize the wisdom in separating the notion of faith from the notion of common government?

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  20. nancy said on September 3, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Well, now you know why I gave him up for, like, ever.

    BTW, I just learned — last night — that Kate’s second-grade teacher, a year we joined already in progress — prayed regularly in class, to herself. This I’m actually OK with, but then I learned that sometime in the first semester, before we got there, she led them in a prayer for some kid’s uncle, and even demonstrated proper prayerful posture: “Put your hands together, and touch your index finger to your lips…”

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  21. Peter said on September 3, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    LA Mary – if you’re referring to the NYT story this morning about Mayor Palin, I think you’re only scratching the surface.

    What scares me about her – REALLY scares me about her, is her connection to those Christian warriors – I may be wrong, but I think it’s a love affair unseen since – dare I say it – Ronnie. I haven’t seen anybody who can have so much baggage and so little brains and who just blows everyone over. I think Biden can blow her to bits in the debate and it wouldn’t matter one teensy bit.

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  22. mark said on September 3, 2008 at 1:43 pm


    I was expressing an interest in why Nancy sometimes hangs out in the places where you live, not an interest in you or the places where you live.

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  23. Catherine said on September 3, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Nancy, I love the ad. Please — become the Democrats’ Fred Davis (or “Hollywood,” as he’s known). See yesterday’s WSJ profile of the creative, uh, genius, behind a number of very provocative political ads — picture ex-cons in pink tutus.

    And, everything that you said about the culture wars. I’m really trying to refrain from joining in — I may even be praying for help to stop judging — but what is just making me crazy is that the Dobsons and their ilk, who have been so intolerant for so long, now seem to be incapable of walking their hateful talk. Judge her, already! Nothing’s ever held y’all back before!

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  24. coozledad said on September 3, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    The fundies despise Twain because he held their ancestral knuckledraggers to be the root of America’s ills. He also deserted their precious Rebel army at the earliest opportunity and committed the sin of cheering loudly while Grant stomped a mudhole in their ass.
    William Shakespeare tells them that life is really complex, beautiful, and sad, and the Elizabethans were a bunch of happily vulgar drunken fucks.
    They dream of a heaven with segregated hot tubs.

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  25. MarkH said on September 3, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    Cooz (and LAMary) –

    Did I miss something here, or was it not too long ago that liberals wanted Huckleberry Finn removed from school reading lists due to “racial insensitivity”? As I said earlier, book-banning troubles me greatly, no matter what the source.

    BTW, Cooz, I love your posts, but can understand what the other mark is talking about. Sometimes when I read you, I envision Dana Carvey’s old “Grumpy Old Man” character. (I mean that in a nice way; makes me laugh).

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  26. Gasman said on September 3, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    So now McCain and Paulin are trotting out the sire of Bristol Palin’s baby? I thought that they wanted to keep this a private family matter. They are more than happy to trot out the blessed couple to use as campaign props. What hypocritical bastards. I say if Palin is crass enough to use them as part of her campaign, then they are fair game. I have nothing but contempt for the women. She would use her family’s private crisis as a ploy to get votes. Has she no conscience? Apparently there is no “low” low enough for her.

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  27. LAMary said on September 3, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    >>>Did I miss something here, or was it not too long ago that liberals wanted Huckleberry Finn removed from school reading lists due to “racial insensitivity”? As I said earlier, book-banning troubles me greatly, no matter what the source.<<<

    It troubles me too, no matter the source. I didn’t say otherwise.

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  28. coozledad said on September 3, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    I’m afraid you’re entirely on the money with that criticism, and you wouldn’t be overboard if you called me a frothing bastard. But it suits me. I am old, and the last eight years have put something up my ass that I can’t quite manage to pull out. It may very well be my head.
    I have no doubt I’ll be able to make a case for pharmaceutical relief.

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  29. ellen said on September 3, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    The campaign very nearly had to take the daughter’s boyfriend into the fold now, because the enquirer, et al, were probably already camped on his doorstep and waving $$$ at him for details, pics, etc. Gotta keep everyone on message in this situation.

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  30. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 3, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Cooze — if only i could use that about myself in a sermon . . . many would laugh long and hard while nodding their heads up and down figorously! “Yep, that’s where Jeff’s head is stuck..”

    LAMary, do you have a source for the “what books she tried to ban”? That would be a deal breaker for me (don’t all froth about “but what about”), but i’m not finding it, and i really have been looking. Not sandbagging anyone here — i’d like to know. But so far everything i’ve found direct is either the mayor she beat out of office, or post-facto job holder disputes, which having worked for county officials i am constitutionally suspicious of, D or R originated.

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  31. Hattie said on September 3, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    “Put your hands together, and touch your index finger to your lips…”
    This worries me. In the interest of sanitation and controlling the spread of germs, we must teach our children to keep their hands away from their faces and mouths.

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  32. brian stouder said on September 3, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    But so far everything i’ve found direct is either the mayor she beat out of office, or post-facto job holder disputes, which having worked for county officials i am constitutionally suspicious of, D or R originated.

    Well, the New York Times says

    Shortly after becoming mayor, former city officials and Wasilla residents said, Ms. Palin approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books, though she never followed through and it was unclear which books or passages were in question. Ann Kilkenny, a Democrat who said she attended every City Council meeting in Ms. Palin’s first year in office, said Ms. Palin brought up the idea of banning some books at one meeting. “They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her,” Ms. Kilkenny said.

    The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to “resist all efforts at censorship,” Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article. In 1996, Ms. Palin suggested to the local paper, The Frontiersman, that the conversations about banning books were “rhetorical.”

    So, notice that the librarian survived the mayor, and the crux of the story, that the new mayor approached the town librarian about the possibility of banning some books because “They were somehow morally or socially objectionable to her”, is corroborated by no less than former mayor Sarah Palin herself!!!

    So Jeff, is the deal now broken?

    Or – are we going to parse the finer points about “morally or socially objectionable books”, and what a new mayor would hope to gain by “rhetorically” getting into the librarian’s face about such books*?

    *and then firing her! Governor Palin seems to be big on firing people

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  33. Jolene said on September 3, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    Time has this: Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. “She asked the library how she could go about banning books,” he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. “The librarian was aghast.” That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn’t be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving “full support” to the mayor.

    Not very specific, and it suggests that the impetus may have come from citizens. Still, she doesn’t seem to have hesitated to pursue the issue. One could, presumably, check out the “news reports from the time.”

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  34. Jolene said on September 3, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    Another meme that sounds rich coming out of the mouths of the Republican spinners is that we should be impressed because Palin took on “Big Oil” and succeeded in imposing additional taxes on them. Wasn’t raising taxes on the profits of the oil companies a bad idea when Obama proposed it?

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  35. LAMary said on September 3, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    I’m looking for the website, jtmmo, just limited here at work by my company’s blockage of many websites. I’ve emailed a friend for the URL.

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  36. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 3, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    Whoa — can i share a huge joy? (I’m not changing the subject, we can go back to librarians, it’s just that this just happened!)

    This is as non-political as it gets, except that we’ve done this with major support from the guy who is running as a Democrat for state Att’y Gen’l, and it is one of the best things i’ve ever helped form: while most of Ohio and the country is posturing and arm-waving, check out what we’re launching in 20+ counties of Ohio starting tomorrow (we did a year+ pilot in this county, and the footage here is off of the training we just ended for the 20 new Americorps who are deploying around SE Ohio) — (about 1.30 long)

    And it is basically a 100% accurate piece, and on TV news at that!

    This is a great day. I watched the video clip twice, and cried just a little (i’m a guy; it was just a little, really.)

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  37. brian stouder said on September 3, 2008 at 4:51 pm


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  38. James said on September 3, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    Yesterday I was watching all the party faithful at the GOP convention say with a straight face that Sarah Palin was qualified to lead.

    This morning I came to a realization.

    They’re all the moral equivalent of Will Ferrell; they play “stupid” with such abandon, and they have absolutely no potential for embarrassment.

    They’ll say the stupidest, most bold-faced lies, put a big stupid grin on their face, and then wrap it up in the flag, and then proffer it to us to swallow.

    (I hope my head doesn’t explode before it’s all over)

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  39. nancy said on September 3, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    Good for you, Jeff. You can get an amen from here.

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  40. joodyb said on September 3, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    that’s great, jeff. good for you guys. i might add that we’ve heard nada about foreclosures and the economy thus far. but from the looks of the crowd in st. paul, they are not affected by either.

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  41. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 3, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    Hey, i never knew Saul Alinsky, but Obama and i read the same books (and we probably worked around a few of the same people who were trained by him, Chambers and Elshtain and Vachss to name a few — “Rules for Radicals” is bipartisan wicked good). The one slam on Barack i won’t keep my mouth shut hearing is “he was just a community organizer.” That’s right up there with commanding the Alaska National Guard in qualifications, and then some!

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  42. Gasman said on September 3, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Now McCain has weighed in that Gov. Palin is ready to be President because as the chief executive of Alaska she has commanded that mighty 4,000 man Alaska National Guard – for a whole 21 months. R talking heads have been shopping that one around since she was named. Has she even issued a single order? Calling them up for national duty is the president’s job, not hers. How again are her qualifications superior to Obama’s or Biden’s? She’s been out of the country once in her life: to Kuwait to visit Alaskan soldiers while she’s been Governor. Military experience and foreign policy acumen to boot! She certainly brings an air of gravitas to the ticket.

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  43. Catherine said on September 3, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    Jeff, congratulations!

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  44. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 3, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Gasman, not to change your mind, but to explain why “the buzz today” really doesn’t represent why Gov. Palin’s name has been on most of the Top Ten R-lists of veep possibles for months, read this:
    She really isn’t just about rallying the base; she has quite a track record in bucking entrenched interests (check out the Housing Trust Fund initiative and link to see why i’m impressed).

    It is more tedious reading than stuff about teen pregnancy, fake pregnancy, and peddling rumors ex-brothers-in-law are pushing, i’ll grant you that.

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  45. brian stouder said on September 3, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    peddling rumors ex-brothers-in-law are pushing, i’ll grant you that.

    Still, we have the upstart mayor her-own-self confirming that she got into the librarian’s face to have a “rhetorical conversation” about banning books.

    I recall much consternation when Obama’s former pastor (note: not the candidate himself) had a “rhetorical” talk with his congregation about God damned America….and, rhetorically speaking, I’d agree that any nation of men is ‘damned’ in time and eternity.

    Afterall, it’s the individual people within any nation who can be saved by the grace of Christ, and not their nations or their social clubs or any other organization.

    It could well be argued that insisting that “God blesses” a secular thing like a nation is shorthand for putting a false god before the real One….or put another way, rule by Divine-Right leaders (like the kings of Euro monarchies of past ages) –

    and that insisting that “God damn” America is a healthy way to remind people not to put the fate of their eternal souls on ‘cruise contol’, in the profoundly misguided belief that America is blessed, and therefore all is well.

    And anyway, one doesn’t have to look very far into American history (or current events) to see all sorts of damnable realities….and yet THE DAY DOES NOT GO BY THAT HANNITY (et al) DOESN’T REPEAT THE DAMNABLE LIE THAT OBAMA’S PASTOR (and by extension, Barack Obama himself) IS UNAMERICAN!!

    By way of answering back this canard about people “pushing” and “peddling” rumors, Jeff.

    As an Obama supporter, I’m resigned to answering back “peddled” and “pushed” rumors; join the club! (and get used to it; your VP nominee/cipher has been in the arena for, what? – 5 days?


    Cry me a river, baby!

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  46. MichaelG said on September 3, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    Nice work, Jeff.

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  47. moe99 said on September 3, 2008 at 7:18 pm
    guess there are cracks developing in the Republican facade

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  48. moe99 said on September 3, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    This may be a duplicate post:

    Cracks seem to be developing in the Republican facade.

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  49. alex said on September 3, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    Good for you, Jeff!

    Your presence here keeps me mindful of the fact that people of good will see eye to eye about a lot more than they disagree on. I believe you’ve said in the past that abortion is the main issue that keeps you supporting the Rs. As you know, gay rights is the main issue that keeps me supporting the Dems. Never mind that neither party is doing jack about either issue except trying to entice us at election time with more vague promises.

    I’m ready for the change of tone that I think Obama represents. He doesn’t engage in the same kind of petty divisiveness we’ve become so accustomed to seeing these past eight years in both Congress and the White House. I’m not alone in my disdain for the system. I think he has the force of personality that it would take to restore some semblance of civility to Washington.

    Good call not to exploit the love child. Let her do it. Poor old bastardy could probably use a good Republican love fest, one like it will never see again. This is the kind of good sense I expect to see in office.

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  50. Danny said on September 3, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    Question: How many Obama supporters does it take to screw in a light bulb?

    Answer: THAT’S NOT FUNNY!!!

    jcburns, that’s for you.

    mark, welcome aboard. There’s an easy explanation for what’s going on. Fear. Nancy, cooz, gasman and the others are scared that their candidate is going to lose and they are very emotionally invested. And they will say almost anything to make themselves feel better. I’m still cracking up at how quickly they circled the wagons and declared that they had “warmed up” to Joe-the-Gasbag Biden. I mean, really?

    Anyway, it’s better to be called stupid and to not be so than to act stupid and possibly be so.

    And, Brian. Wright is a racist. It is foolish to defend that.

    As you all can tell, I’m not in a good mood. Don’t make me gang up on you all.

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  51. alex said on September 3, 2008 at 7:50 pm


    Wright’s no worse than a helluva lot more white demagogues out there in the pulpit. You just think ugly is forgivable in a man who looks like you.

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  52. LAMary said on September 3, 2008 at 8:00 pm

    Danny, face it. Palin is flat out not an appropriate candidate for VP. I’m scared the GOP will win and we will end up with someone utterly incapable of being president. No sour grapes, no defending Wright. No making stuff up. She’s not qualified. She tries to ban books, get her brother in law fired, and has been on the receiving end of all that pork McCain has been yapping about.
    I read resumes every day. I would put hers in the file we keep just to prove we give equal consideration to everyone, but hire people who are actually capable of handling the job.

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  53. Gasman said on September 3, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    That nonsense about Palin is just bullshit. When she took office as mayor, Wasilla had a balanced budget. When she left they were $22 million in debt. Government expenditures increased 33%, tax revenues up some 38%. She tries to fire a librarian – she has admitted to that one, she fires the police chief because he “intimidated” her. If we are to believe the present hype, she is incapable of intimidation. I also want to see how the ethics investigation is going to shake out regarding her firing of the state police chief. Sounds like they have her dead to rights trying to pressure him to fire her brother in law.

    Then there’s the theologically brain-dead notion of us fighting a Christian jihad in Iraq. That’s scarier than Pat Robertson’s delusions of himself on the plains of Armageddon. If she honestly believes that, then she should NEVER have been considered. Just what we need right now; a war with the entire Muslim world. She doesn’t have to just answer for the rantings of her crazy pastor, she has to answer for her own.

    She also needs to explain her connection, and that of her husband, with the AIP and their advocacy of secession. At the very least, she has been very cozy with them. Another absolute disqualifier in my opinion.

    The article you site mentions a mere handful of initiatives that on the surface sound OK. Quite frankly, I distrust ANYONE at this point that is trying to prop her up. We have been bombarded with the most hyperbolic bullshit in the last week trying to make us believe that her “executive” experience makes her the most qualified candidate around. She is incompetent, she is vindictive, she is a religious bigot, she is arrogant, and she seems to care a whole lot less about her family than her ambition. Even if the story is true, it does not offset all the negatives that I have heard about Sarah Palin.

    She co-mingles ignorance and arrogance in fairly equal proportions. It seems that the country cannot stand another village idiot president. I honestly could not think of a worse choice for VP. So much for McCain’s “America First.”

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  54. coozledad said on September 3, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    Fear doesn’t have anything to do with it. It’s completely the opposite. When I walk into a low income housing project with an Obama T-shirt on everybody talks to me. A surprising number of them were Hillary supporters, and their reasons for supporting Obama now are pretty nuanced, considering how bad things have gotten. It’s the kind of political dialogue you were led to believe would be part of ordinary life in America, but the opportunity escaped us with the strategy of divisive pandering that gave life support to wrong thinking.
    Congressman Brad Miller is right: your folks have set up a system that demonizes people who are struggling to get by, and when they try to get up, they get saddled with mortgage instruments intended solely to benefit offshore investors.
    None of us are afraid- we’re quite hopeful, in fact, but we also recognize that we’re going to have to keep a similar level of activity following the election, to actually address problems locally. It’s the only option, because your party broke the government. It will be several years before it regains the power and prestige it had in the Clinton Administration.

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  55. Danny said on September 3, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    You just think ugly is forgivable in a man who looks like you.

    Alex, don’t even try to identify me as a racist or a racist sympathizer.

    I am one of the few people here that will gore an ox even if that ox is Republican. You know it and everyone else who has been here a while knows it.

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  56. Gasman said on September 3, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    Please feel free to cite chapter and verse on your gripes with liberalism, the Democrats, and Obama. I’ll do the same with Republicans, McCain & Palin, and conservatism. I am prepared to offer up facts, dates & times, places, and even video clips. I’ve heard nothing but ad hominem attacks from you and all of the talking heads on your side of the aisle. What rights were diminished during Clinton’s term? None. Your constitutional rights were protected and respected by a liberal president. Same question about Bush II? Significant diminution of everyone’s liberty and extreme cheapening of what had been our core values. How did the country fare during Clinton’s term economically compared to Reagan, Bush I, Bush II? The economy was, by any metric you care to cite, better under a liberal president than any of the three named R presidents. According to the evidence, liberals are more fiscally prudent.

    You have no demonstrable facts to back up your claims to the superiority of conservative Republican rule, so you avoid issues and shovel out the typical R histrionic lies. If you had any positive evidence that you could offer up, I suspect you would. The fact that you have not and will not essentially makes my case.

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  57. Jolene said on September 3, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    It’s the contrast between the evocative stories and the facts that is so frustrating, Danny, and the difficulty of drawing attention to the facts after the stories have been released into the ether.

    To wit, the story: the pork-busting governor who doesn’t approve of earmarks and said, “Thanks, but no thanks” to the Bridge to Nowhere.

    The facts: She hired a lobbyist to bring home the bacon, including several projects that made their way onto McCain’s list of objectionable outlays, and she was for the bridge before she was against it. And even when she was against it, she kept the money!

    This is not about ideology. It’s simply about the truth. And I would be willing to bet that the corrections brought forth by the press are nowhere near as widely “known” as the statements she made in her speech last Friday. Very frustrating, indeed.

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  58. alex said on September 3, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    You’ll gore Larry Craig, Danny. Why not embrace him like bastardy, bitch?

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  59. Gasman said on September 3, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    Why are Republican lies and incompetency OK? You seem to go ballistic over the slightest perceived fault of any liberal, but seem to be totally unwilling to acknowledge an eight year string of lies, illegalities, and total incompetency. You either have swallowed the party line b.s. and deny history or you are complicit in the fraud.

    You can damn well bet if any Democrat had perpetrated what has happened during the last eight years I would be just as mad. I am not a necessarily a committed Democrat for life, they are just the last best hope at this time. I am a committed liberal and patriot. I am well versed in the constitution and I would defend it to the end. With you it seems to be a game. With me it is devotion to the the stuff of which our country was made. My liberalism springs from my loyalty to the constitution.

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  60. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 3, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    Alex — “neither party is doing jack about either issue”

    Zing. Noted. Which is why i’m not much of a “party” guy, while i think “independent” doesn’t mean as much as some read into it as a place to stand. I’ll claim GOP identity ruefully, and defend what i can. Teddy R is still my hero (think both NPS and Forest Service, a twofer enough for any pol), and McCain-Palin might shock more R’s (party-wise) than horrify D’s. If they win, which they might not. (Shrugs.) I voted for the Dem for governor here in Ahia, since it seemed the conservative thing to do — the R was a radical, and not in a good way.

    Hope i get to buy you a beer someday, though; i suspect we agree on 82% more than we disagree on. (That 18% can keep a conversation lively, though, can’t it?)

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  61. Suzi said on September 3, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    Gasman, well said at 8:12.
    Does anyone have the list of books Palin tried to ban?
    I’m trying to decide if I have the energy to watch her speech tonight. Might need some ice cream . . .

    She’s sort of Dubya in a bun only less likable. Maybe Rove in a bun. Cheny . . . ? Way too much Kool Aid being consumed.

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  62. alex said on September 3, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    Jeff, that 18% is the case Rudy Giuliani made for himself. To no avail. But I’ll be glad to meet you there any day.

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  63. Deborah said on September 3, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    The hypocracy of saying that children should be kept out of it and then trotting out the teenager who knocked up your daughter, as a photo op is “breathtaking” to say the least. Does anyone else remember the hideous “joke” that John McCain made about Chelsea Clinton being fathered by Janet Reno. And these people say you need to keep the children out of it… (head exploding).

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  64. alex said on September 3, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    Drill, baby, drill. Shill, baby, shill.

    Wonder how many were paid to be in the audience in Denver vs. St. Paul.

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  65. Jolene said on September 3, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    Did y’all catch Peggy Noonan speaking w/ Chuck Todd, an MNSBC political analyst, and Mike Murphy, a Republican strategist (and former McCain advisor) when she thought the mic was off?

    I wasn’t going to bother posting it, but I just saw that she’d posted an ass-covering, and totally unconvincing, explanation. Pretty funny.

    Giuliani speaking at the moment. He is one seriously mean guy. Am so glad he lost.

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  66. Jolene said on September 3, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    Speaking of being in the audience, alex, have been reading reporters who’ve noted the empty spaces in the hall. In Denver, they say, people had to find seats before the festivities started or settle for SRO. Not so surprising last night, maybe, but just saw that there are empty seats tonight too.

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  67. alex said on September 3, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    Jolene, the vibe’s not there either. And this isn’t just wishful thinking. It’s creepy. GOP conventions are creepy anyway, I realize, but going through the motions in spite of no record to run on is quite an act. Cirque du Soleil couldn’t do the physical equivalent of the contortions Republicans do rhetorically.

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  68. alex said on September 3, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    And the moment we’ve been waiting for…

    The star of the show…

    I’m having flashbacks of a former secretary who was bipolar with an abusive husband. Could’ve pulled off tonight’s speech with the same aplomb.

    EDIT: And world views.

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  69. Gasman said on September 3, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    Peggy Noonan’s “explanation” of her unintended broadcast was precious! Of all people, she should know that a nearby mic is ALWAYS on. Anybody who listens to the exchange knows what was being said. Her attempt to spin it is pathetically laughable. The vigor with which the Rs are trying to sell Palin is inversely proportional to how a large segment of them actually feel about her. I’m waiting for a few prominent Rs to put country before party and bolt the fold. Anybody who is truly concerned about national security cannot be sanguine about the prospect of Sarah Palin as commander in chief.

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  70. Colleen said on September 4, 2008 at 12:00 am

    Alex, my sister and I were commenting on the lack of energy in the hall. And I noticed the empty seats.

    Guiliani. Ugh. Mean. Just no class. And I didn’t like Palin’s snark either. It’s not necessary. Never mind that she made statements that were untrue and presented them as facts….

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  71. Suzi said on September 4, 2008 at 12:05 am

    Another politician who doesn’t know how to pronounce pundit or Iraq correctly. She sure does like to tsk tsk tsk though. Her pouty faces evoked memories of The Church Lady, isn’t that special?

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  72. Jolene said on September 4, 2008 at 12:17 am

    From another blog: Bush had the smirk; Palin has a sneer.

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  73. nancy said on September 4, 2008 at 12:17 am

    I wouldn’t be too dismissive. It was a good speech, well-delivered, and “the base” is eating it up like red meat. That said, I think they’re treading dangerously close to a line with their jabs at Obama. Every time they call him a fag elitist, or whatever, they open themselves up to a riposte — this guy came from nothing and made something of himself. Unlike, say, George Bush, whose name is barely spoken this week. And all that sniping about community organization. They really hate poor people, don’t they?

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  74. Tehanu said on September 4, 2008 at 12:21 am

    Another thing about the Rethuglican convention… I don’t recall seeing any heavily armed SWAT teams in the streets in Denver.

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  75. brian stouder said on September 4, 2008 at 12:27 am


    OK – I’m a small person, but I don’t like the GOP’s pale imitation of a national vice presidential candidate.

    Memo to SP:

    1. “Community Organizer” is the sort of local action that the Republican party I used to be a member of valued and respected.

    2. “Fighting for you” in American politics doesn’t have to literally refer to blood and guts and pyrotechnics and torture and incinerated babies and so on, and so forth. We elect presidents and not warrior kings.

    3. Barack Obama doesn’t part water or descend from clouds, nor has he ever pretended to.

    4. Also, and by the way, John McCain is NOT our national martyr, who was crucified for us and whose precious blood was shed for us, confering upon him everlasting political perfection.

    5. Yes, you were a mayor of a city of 7,000, and a governor of a state which contains 650,000 people, or 8 million FEWER people (and only 20,000 Amerians of African descent, or more than 1,000,000 FEWER Americans of African descent) than in the metro Chicago area where Obama was a community organizer.

    Consider, too, that in the same brief time that you’ve been the governor of your small state in the great white north, busily pursuing earmarks and money for bridges to nowhere (before disingenuously claiming that you were against these same things), Senator Obama conducted a successful coast-to-coast national campaign, and gave hundreds of speeches and listened to tens of thousands of voters and citizens all across the nation.

    I would suggest to you, ma’am, that Senator Obama knows more about America and Americans, from small rural towns to mid-sized cities to sprawling cityscapes, than you can possibly know; and even if you spend the next 8 weeks runing as fast and hard as you can, you cannot even learn what Obama has forgotten, let alone what he knows about our broad land, and diverse population, and varied ways of thinking.

    Honestly, I have the distinct impression that you don’t even have an idea of how much you don’t know – which is the first step….the first step toward making you fit to even shine Senator Obama’s shoes.

    Oh hell – I’m done.

    I think I’m going to take a day or two off from even paying attention to this stuff.

    (But Noonan’s “mis-step” was a little heartening. Surely the Democrats aren’t the only ones who see the absurdity of this spectacle)

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  76. Jolene said on September 4, 2008 at 12:38 am

    Re seeing the absurdity, Mike Murphy, the operative I mentioned above, said on Meet the Press last Sunday that the “officer class” of the Republican party–people like Dick Lugar and Kay Bailey Hutchinson–were disturbed about the pick. They know that, after winning, comes governing, which requires a wide variety of kinds of expertise.

    Nancy is right, though, about not being dismissive. Just looking around the blogosphere a bit, there are lots of people who are positively orgasmic. But see this insightful comment from Jim Fallows, who doubts that the speech will bring anyone new to the Republican fold.

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  77. moe99 said on September 4, 2008 at 3:14 am

    The press, regardless of whether McCain is treating them badly, likes a contest, and so if they write about Palin in the right way, a contest they will have. Putting selling newspapers above what’s right for the country smacks of the Republicans doing the same thing. I’ve always been interested in candidates who put larger societal goals ahead of promoting themselves because that seemed to more give their campaigns and their terms of office a sense of being something a bit above the daily grind. It’s late and I’m botching this but it analogizes for me to my life.

    I’m not a very religious person despite being raised Catholic by a mom who said the rosary daily and made us say it with her when the five of us kids got too rambunctious in the car on long trips. I’m currently an ordained elder in the Presbyterian Church and just came off chairing a successful pastor search. Although I don’t believe heart and soul in the all the tenets of organized Christianity, what I do believe strongly is that if you hold a perspective that is outside yourself –not completely self centered, but focused on others around you and yes some ineffable transcendant existence beyond my comprehension, it helps maintain an equilibrium that I would not have otherwise. Kind of like when I am in a sailboat, it helps the stomach if I focus out a long ways when I’m up on deck.

    And I like politicians that seem to have goals that stretch beyond the immediate self promotion and/or immolation of opponents. And I don’t think Palin or McCain have that. They are small minded and only interested in being elected, not in improving society at large, but only at the margins, their side of the margins. And I think that kind of focus bodes ill for our country long term.

    Mind you, I’ve seen first hand the effects that politics can wreak on human egos. My former spouse ran for the state legislature 10 years ago and I thought he was doing it for all the right reasons, and I and my family supported him wholeheartedly and financially. When he won, we were ecstatic and I took our three kids out of school so they could see their dad be sworn into office in January. The next day he told me he wanted a divorce. It’s like he started believing his press releases. These days, I cannot recognize the ex as the person I married back in 1980 when he was a hot shot congressional staffer and I was a Special Assistant to the General Counsel of a very large governmental agency in D.C. He’s become this slick guy with an expensive haircut in contact lenses, wearing a black cashmere mock turtleneck and Italian loafers. And he’s a Democrat! Obviously it takes a person of strong integrity to withstand the flattery faction that surrounds you once you are a winner. Should he ever lose a race, perhaps he can rediscover some humility.

    I think and hope and pray that Obama can withstand the tectonic forces that are at play around him. I don’t think that the same can be said of either McCain or Palin.

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  78. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 4, 2008 at 7:14 am

    Moe, i’m praying alongside of you for Obama and anyone else who gets into politics. It does create a reality distortion field up on those platforms, and you have to have a clear sense of self and a solid grip of your priorities to just stand still, let alone move up. Me, i think pretty much all four in the pres race have shown that they have some form of grounding like you describe, beyond self and with some kind of sense/hope of transcendent reality, which is why i’m not horribly anxious about the outcome either way. I strongly dislike Biden, but i think his family choices show the heart of the man in his best light, and God bless him too.

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  79. Suzi said on September 4, 2008 at 7:23 am

    What was the deal with the woman getting hustled out of the audience by the guys in black during Palin’s speech? And this morning NPR reported something about premeptive raids on groups of protesters in St. Paul. I don’t recall that sort of thing occuring in Denver.

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  80. Suzi said on September 4, 2008 at 7:32 am

    It was a good speech, it was written by Rove’s ole boys, she delivered it well with just the right sort of smug hubrus the Rs love to lap up. She’s good, that still doesn’t make her presidential.

    When she was mayor of Wasilla she didn’t make light of the community organizers who defended Wasilla’s city librarian and demanded a recall of Palin from the mayor’s ofice.

    She must be feeling quite confident and full of herself today.

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  81. beb said on September 4, 2008 at 8:00 am

    I woke up this morning and read on a blog that the National Enquirer is planning to report that Sarah Palin had an affair with her husband’s business partner. While the Enquirer is not exactly our “Paper of Record” you got to wonder if there is any scandal Palin has not been linked to?

    Meanwhile Detroit holds its breath wonderng if, about an hour from now, our mayor will accept some kind of plea bargain and end our long nightmare of scandal. I see from the Freep that the mayor’s problems has even come to the presidental candidates attention. Obama opines that its time for Kwane to go.

    If fear and paranoia is your thing here’s something to thing about. Yellowstone natinal park sits atop a vast volanic caldera that explodes catastrophically every 100,000 years or so. Last mega-eruption: about 100,000 years ago. If were lucky instead of four more years of Bush, we’ll be buried under eight or twelve feet of volcanic ash!

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  82. Cosmo Panzini said on September 4, 2008 at 8:09 am

    MORE COOZLEDAD, please.

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  83. nancy said on September 4, 2008 at 8:13 am

    As ordered: Two short grafs, with a new insult — “slack-jawed cousinfucks.”

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  84. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 4, 2008 at 8:15 am

    It was a Code Pink protester hustled out in mid-speech, you could almost hear her (and Palin didn’t even hesitate, just glanced over, saw they had her in hand, went on), looked like the same sign i thought Phyllis Schalfly tore up two days ago.

    You didn’t have urine jugs in Denver because the protesters were all up in Minnesota already, making the giant puppets for the protest marches — you have to let that paper machie (sp?) dry for a couple days before you can wave ’em around!

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  85. Julie Robinson said on September 4, 2008 at 8:39 am

    Since I value my sleep and blood pressure I taped the speech to watch today, but I’ve heard so much crap this morning I may need to skip it. The difference between hockey moms and pit bulls is lipstick? This, supposedly an ad lib, tells me just about everything I need to know about Palin. She will go for the blood and stop at nothing.

    I used to have real respect for McCain, but as he continues to pander to “the base” it’s eroded. And though I hate mud slinging politics, Palin shows that the McCain campaign will use it relentlessly, so the Obama campaign must also go there. We can’t afford to polite ourselves into more of the last eight years.

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  86. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 4, 2008 at 8:56 am

    Chris Matthews just said on “Morning Joe” that, chortling through his coffee, “There’s no such thing as a Republican community organizer . . . on the planet! [huge guffawing] They don’t exist! [snorting, sipping] None of them even know what one does!” [vast general chortling]

    See why i keep piping up?

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  87. brian stouder said on September 4, 2008 at 9:01 am

    moe- Amen!

    Julie – yes. This ‘Palin Digest’ is a good start

    some highlights from the lip-sticked pitbull’s record:

    Palin Slashed Funding To Help Teenage Mothers. Earlier this year, Palin used a line-item veto “to slash funding for a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a place to live.” Funding for Covenant House Alaska, which provides transitional housing for teen mothers, was cut by 20 percent — from $5 million to $3.9 million. [Washington Post, 9/3/08]

    Palin Characterized Ron Paul As ‘Cool.’ During an interview with MTV in February, Palin called Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), who ran against McCain in the primaries, “cool.” “He’s a good guy,” she added. “He’s so independent. He’s independent of the party machine. I’m like, ‘Right on, so am I.’ ” [MTV News, 8/29/2008]

    Palin Instituted A Windfall Profits Tax On Oil Companies. In 2007, Palin raised taxes on oil company profits by $1.5 billion a year, enabling Alaska to double its oil revenue. However, in 2008 she said, “Windfall profits taxes alone prevent additional investment in domestic production.” [Bloomberg, 3/8; Seattle Times, 8/10; Governor’s Office Press Release]

    and so on.

    Joe Biden will have some fun

    edit: None of them even know what one does!” [vast general chortling] See why i keep piping up?

    Jeff, I take it you agree with Matthews’ about the GOP’s outright derision of the (to them) literally ridiculous idea of “community organizing”, right?

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  88. nancy said on September 4, 2008 at 9:03 am

    Yes, you do keep piping up, Jeff, and I wondered last night what you thought of Herself’s disrespect for your job.

    BTW, my city has a population three times the size of Wasilla’s, and our mayor is part-time.

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  89. Calliope said on September 4, 2008 at 12:02 pm


    So the McCain campaign puts out 2 (or was it 3?) major speeches last night mocking your job. The entire Republican National Convention had multiple laughs at your expense.

    And your beef is with Matthews?


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  90. Calliope said on September 4, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Btw, here’s the Obama campaign’s response to the community organizer cracks:

    “Both Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin specifically mocked Barack’s experience as a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago more than two decades ago, where he worked with people who had lost jobs and been left behind when the local steel plants closed.

    Let’s clarify something for them right now.

    Community organizing is how ordinary people respond to out-of-touch politicians and their failed policies.

    And it’s no surprise that, after eight years of George Bush, millions of people have found that by coming together in their local communities they can change the course of history. That promise is what our campaign has been about from the beginning.

    Throughout our history, ordinary people have made good on America’s promise by organizing for change from the bottom up. Community organizing is the foundation of the civil rights movement, the women’s suffrage movement, labor rights, and the 40-hour workweek. And it’s happening today in church basements and community centers and living rooms across America.

    Meanwhile, we still haven’t gotten a single idea during the entire Republican convention about the economy and how to lift a middle class so harmed by the Bush-McCain policies.”

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  91. Gasman said on September 4, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Despite the rather miniscule size Wasilla, Palin still needed a city manager to help her run the place. What kind of executive acumen could she possess if she can’t run a podunk town? I’ve enjoyed reading several Repub. PR types trying to impress us with the fact that while Wasilla has only about 7,000 people, it’s a mighty important and vastly complicated 7,000, not like any other town its size anywhere on the planet, oh no. Much more important than that. Now they’re trying to spin basic math.

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  92. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    Or another way of looking at it is that “community organizing” can be something that someone gets involved with for political expediency (wrt the great Chicago political machine). Or, you know like say if someone was to go to a specific church which instead of preaching the Gospel preached hatred and racism that excited victim-hood mentality passions so as to enhance one’s street cred.

    Or at least that’s what I heard…

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  93. brian stouder said on September 4, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    Or, you know like say if someone was to go to a specific church which instead of preaching the Gospel preached hatred and racism that excited victim-hood mentality passions so as to enhance one’s street cred.

    Or, you know, like, if someone went to a great white north church and preached to the congregation herOWNself, and declared that the war in Iraq was a “task from God”….you know, sorta like our own red-white-and blue jihad, right? She wanted to excite passions and hatreds, so as to increase her pew-cred with the other prejudiced folks in the great white north, right?

    Or at least, that’s what it looks like, unless she really believes it, in which case she ought to be kept away from the National Command Authority

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  94. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    No, Brian, not jihad. Crusade. But seriously, inciting hatreds? Really. Prove it.

    There is NO DOUBT what Rev Wright was up to. No other way to characterize it. It was very clear. But to say that Palin was engaging in same sort of hyperbole for the same reasons is very questionable.

    Maybe you need to take a break for a few days.

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  95. Calliope said on September 4, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    Just two weeks ago Sarah Palin sat in her home church in Wasilla for the following sermon:

    “Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God’s “judgment of unbelief” of Jews who haven’t embraced Christianity.

    “Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It’s very real. When [Brickner’s son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can’t miss it.”

    Sarah Palin, anti-semite! Danny sez so! After all, you sit in a church and listen to someone preach, you must agree with everything they say. Them’s Danny’s rules.

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  96. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    I’ll believe it when I see it and see it in context, Calliope.

    It was very illuminating watching Wright preach. And in context. Was it not?

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  97. Calliope said on September 4, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    Danny says:

    “’ll believe it when I see it and see it in context, Calliope.”

    Oh, so you do agree that if Sarah Palin sat in church for that sermon that she’s an anti-semite? Gonna stick to your guns on that?

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  98. John said on September 4, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    (found after the commentary)

    The Jerusalem Dilemma
    David Brickner
    Wasilla Bible Church
    August 17, 2008

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  99. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    A word of possible explanation. Some of you may not know the term, “Replacement Theology,” but a large swath of Christiandom adheres to it, including the Catholic church. The basic doctrinal distinctive is that the Church has taken the place of Israel even to the point of being the inheritor of all of the promises that God made to Israel and of Israel being in judgment like former Gentile nations.

    Not sure what Palin’s church stands for, but if it is replacement theology, this doctrine is known to lead to some speech that might be seen as anti-semitic. And the Catholic church has been guilty of this too, as many of you know. And very explicitly so.

    The church I attend eschews this unfortunate doctrine and believes that Israel is still very much in God’s providence and under His protection.

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  100. MichaelG said on September 4, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    Wait a minute, Danny. You started out on how Obama’s community organizing was nothing and suddenly, somehow, it became Wright’s preaching. They are two different subjects. Which one are we on?

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  101. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    I was on both, but as different commenters split off onto one topic or another, I reply specifically. And the community organizing went to the next thread.

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  102. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 4, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    [delayed response, sort of]

    Well, Matthews said i don’t exist: Palin just said i’m not using executive leadership skills. Arguable, but most don’t want to be executives, which is why they do it — it is a different skill set. Throw virtual rocks, but i didn’t hear it as so awfully disrespectful, just part of saying she’s run organziations, and he hasn’t — Obama should come back with info on the Gamaliel Organziation’s growth and how many peoples he managed, which was probably significant.

    But they’d rather say she’s being mean to poor people, since only Democratic Party policies actually help them. Which i disagree with, so i just chuckle.

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  103. paddyo' said on September 4, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    To Suzi’s 7:23 a.m. post today:

    Don’t know about St. Paul cops, but Denver’s bullies-in-blue did pull one memorable pre-emptive raid on a house/crashpad where a few anarchists were making protest signs and one of them was out in the driveway, trying to fix a broke-down bus.

    Apparently a twitchy neighbor saw the storage tank for the alt-powered bus’s veggie oil fuel and assumed it was them evil turrrrrrrr-urrrrr-ists gittin’ ready to attack with a homemade bomb or something, and called the cops. So the police showed up, chased down the guy who was trying to repair the bus, then burst in on the sign-painters, who were using bricks to hold down either end of their artwork.

    Yes, you guessed it: More arrests, and the bricks confiscated as “potential weapons” . . .

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