The end of everything.

While the rest of you were watching the former mayor of New York, squiring his third wife, mocking the Democratic nominee for president as “cosmopolitan,” Detroiters were waiting to see if their mayor was going to jail now or later. Kwame Kilpatrick’s plea deal, being crafted in the wake of a quasi-impeachment hearing yesterday, was on, then off, then on, and then it rained and everybody went home. Today it’s most likely on; no one expects K2 to be mayor at the end of the day. Every picture of him taken recently shows him in another of his fine suits, steepling his hands against his mouth and scowling.

The sticking point is jail time. He’s facing 10 felony counts, and the prosecutor wants him to do at least a few months behind bars. The people of Detroit, meanwhile, prove eminently quotable: “The mayor shouldn’t go out like a punk.” “He’s an empty suit and the next suit he’s going to wear is a pinstripe suit.” “The man spent his whole life trying to be famous. Now the best he can do is be infamous.” (May I just say? It’s nice to see the owner of a barber shop knows the difference between fame and infamy. Gives me hope for the language.)

UPDATE: That’s all, folks.

Meanwhile, Peggy Noonan got caught telling the truth — see approximately nine million other sites for audio and transcripts, or click the following link — but Scott Rosenberg brings up the greater point: Where was all this honesty in Noonan’s column?

Now, if Peggy Noonan wrote a column every week that was as honest with her readers as she is here, with her colleagues, when she thinks the microphone is off, I would read it religiously. She’s part of a world that I don’t inhabit. But now I have a bright picture of the fact that she’s not writing what she knows and believes.

Exactly right. Exactly. And if there’s one thing that makes reading the best blogs so refreshing and reading most newspaper commentary a little like being stuck in an airless room, it’s this. Of course Noonan is a GOP operative with a high-paid sinecure on a right-wing editorial page, and she’s expected to represent for their side. She’s a columnist now, but could be a speechwriter in a Republican administration by this time next year. Nevertheless, it’s true: Too many writers simply aren’t honest with their readers, and even if you can’t put your finger on it precisely, it’s obvious when it’s happening. It’s why Mitch Albom is so grating, a guy who made millions writing a book advising others to slow down, savor, smell the roses — and uses it to catapult himself into a stratosphere of hyperactive multi-platform media personality-fying that ensures all of his work gets half his attention. People know he’s a fraud, even if they can’t quite say why.

The reason so many people writing for newspapers hedge and qualify and cavil is, they have more to lose. Jim Harrison uses a line every so often, something about consecrating every day and writing like your hair’s on fire. That’s it.

Bloggage: Moving van arrives at Detroit’s mayoral mansion, then leaves. If it’s someone’s idea of a joke, it’s a pretty good one.

Many are writing about Sarah Palin’s speech last night, but Roy’s one-liner won’t be beaten: Governor Palin’s address tonight was basically Reba McEntire doing a one-woman show on the life of Phyllis Schlafly.

Finally, anyone want to babysit Friday night? Alan and I are going to see the Dirtbombs:

(Hell, maybe she’s old enough to come along, too.)

Posted at 9:12 am in Current events, Detroit life |

124 responses to “The end of everything.”

  1. alex said on September 4, 2008 at 10:22 am

    Lipstick on a pit bull indeed. Glad to see pigs are finally getting some respect for their intelligence.

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  2. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 10:46 am

    I can babysit. I need the money. I just paid for college books for my older son.

    Roy got it exactly right. Perfect. I want to see how she does when she’s unscripted. The mayor or Ketchikan was on NPR this morning saying Ms Palin campaigned in his town on promising the bridge to nowhere, then after being elected, cancelled the project with a memo. She kept the 233 million for the state, though.

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  3. brian stouder said on September 4, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Hey, I’ll underbid Mary; the young folks and I are on our own on Friday, since Pam is running off to Shipshewana for a scrapbooking thing (or else a tryst with some bearded fellow with a name like Amos or Solomon, and nails in his pocket) –
    and we’d babysit for free, although I make no promises about how much of your Diet Coke (or whatever) will be left.

    Actually, I bet you’d draw a frown from the young’n for using the term “babysit” with regard to her. It raises a question that Pam and I have discussed, regarding what age is old enough to begin leaving the young folks on their own for some period of time.

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  4. Julie Robinson said on September 4, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    LA Mary, welcome to Fleece U!! Just wait until he tries to sell those books back. Our son is studying voice and luckily he mostly has bought actual books of music, which he can use for many years. Same thing with the tux. But this semester he took a big hit, about $450, plus his sheet music, plus $300 for the accompanist at voice lessons. And of course tuition went up too. Soon no one will be able to afford college. I’m hoping Barack can fix that one too.

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  5. Connie said on September 4, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Back in the day I spent two years as the buyer’s assistant in charge of buying and selling used books at the MSU Bookstore. Most stores still use the same policy: if the book is adopted for a class in the next semester we buy it for 50% of the retail price, and sell it for 75%. If it is not being used in the next semester we will offer whatever is the going rate from one of the wholesale buyers, in MSU’s case it was the Nebraska Book Company. So sometimes it is worth waiting a semester before selling your book.

    You may remember this picture from your own college days: remember the person who looked at your pile, quoted you a total, and then fanned a giant wad of dollar bills and handed you the right amount. I was really impressed the first couple of times I saw that, but quickly learned how easy and simple it really was.

    My daughter’s books were close to $1,000 the first semester of her freshman year. At least the big science textbooks got used again her sophomore year. This semester she has three science classes, with labs, including organic chem, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she had to spend close to $1,000 again.

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  6. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    We just finished rewatching Palin’s speech this morning. Very good marks all around. It really astonishes me that folks around here are so critical of her family and her political service.

    I mean, first we had to listen to a bunch of you carping about her deciding to have her baby boy with Downs syndrome. Some of you even repeated rumors that it was her 17-year old daughter’s baby. Then you latched onto the viscous crap that was being said about her daughter’s actual pregnancy and this became a cue for you to misguidedly criticize abstinence education. Which then Jeff had to set you straight on, though you would have none of it

    What is it with some of you people? Is a person only worthy of your respect if they embrace killing babies for whatever reason of convenience? Tragic.

    Now, the latest is to criticize Palin’s experience. You’re grasping at straws and trying to second-guess what the true story will be once the candidate is vetted by the press. Obama’s experience isn’t exactly impressive. You’re being dishonest with yourself to see it any other way.

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  7. beb said on September 4, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    The mayor cost the city $8 millino in a wrongful firing case and is being asked to repay a whole one million. That in itself is enough to stick in my craw! 120 days in jail? It ought to be a year. At least he took a five year prohibition on running for public office. That ought to be lifetime but if marion barry can go to prison for drugs, come back and get re-elected Mayor of Washington, DC, then I guess Kwane can too.

    College looms a few years away for our daughter. Maybe by then books will be a thing of the past, replaced with on-line editions or books on CDs. Print on demand could produce books for a lot less then what publishers are charging today but $5 a copy royalties don’t pay the bills. (Assuming one spends a year researching a text books and has a medium income for $50,000 per year. One would need to sell 10,000 copies to cover one’s living expenses. Text bookds don’t sell in that number.)

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  8. Mindy said on September 4, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Wow, four months in jail for the mayor. I wonder if the suits in the joint with be the classic black and white stripes.

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  9. Jolene said on September 4, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Danny, people have criticized Palin for a number of things related to her views and experience, but I don’t recall that anyone said anything negative about her decision to carry Trig to term.

    What’s interesting is that both she and her daughter are being congratulated for their decisions when, if McCain-Palin policies were implemented, there’d be no decisions to be made w/ respect to continuing a pregnancy without risking prosecution.

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  10. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Viscous crap sounds particulary nasty.

    I didn’t criticize anyone for having a down syndrome baby. I wondered why a mother would be tested for down syndrome if there was no consideration of options. I didn’t attack anyone’s family. I will say abstinence education sounds like a very bad idea, and I’d say Bristol is an example of why it is a bad idea. Teenagers have sex. Telling them not to does not work. Telling them to be responsible and to take precautions if they do have sex seems to be a lot more effective. Educating kids about options does not send them out into the street in a frenzy of promiscuity.

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  11. ellen said on September 4, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Danny — who is the “you” that you are talking about? I don’t recall Nancy or any of the regular commenters on this board saying anything derogatory about Gov. Palin’s decision to have a baby with Downs Syndrome. Maybe there were some trolls/lurkers in the later comments that I missed, but I am pretty sure that even Caliban wouldn’t go there with the hyperbole. And yeah, I will agree with you that she has some awesome speechwriters, and her pageant training really showed in the delivery. And that 7-year-old… so cute!

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  12. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Mary, I agree with you and what Jeff said. Abstinence only is a loser. But abstinence needs to be a big part of sex education for teens. Otherwise it is tacit approval of promiscuity.

    EDIT: And by abstinence, I’m also talking about the sorts of educational schemes that get the teens thinking of the true responsibility of a baby (like carrying around a doll for a week, etc.)

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  13. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    And that 7-year-old… so cute!

    I know. She reminds us of our next door neighbor’s youngest daughter. She must have her parents wrapped around her pudgy little fingers. How could anyone possibly say “no” to that child.

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  14. Gasman said on September 4, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    You really do astound me. Does it not strike you as somewhat ironic that the very scion of “Asbstinence Only” education has a 17 year daughter who got pregnant? What did we hear from the ubermoralist right? They gushed about how adult Bristol Palin was and Palin said that she was looking forward to being a grandmother. We and/or the liberal media didn’t make that one up. Does it also not strike you as ironic that Palin fiercely defends her family and criticizes the press for even bringing up the story, but Palin then flies in the sire of Bristol’s baby to use the blessed couple as stage props? If she really wanted to defend her family, she’d keep them out of the limelight. I have not seen anyone in print that criticized Bristol or her mom for not having an abortion. That is a fictional creation of the right wing.

    Should we not scrutinize Palin’s record as Gov. of Alaska and Mayor of Wasilla? Is it insignificant that when she took office in Wasilla the budget was balanced and she left it $22 million in deficit? Not exactly the model of fiscal responsibility. But you don’t want to hear that.

    Is it insignificant that she lobbied for – and received – some of the biggest earmarks that were criticized by McCain as wasteful examples of government pork? Of all the hogs in the trough, none had his/her snout any deeper than Gov. Palin. She was one of the biggest cheerleaders for the Bridge to Nowhere. McCain criticized the bridge, why do you now ignore her initial support? I guess it is more convenient to do so.

    Is it insignificant that both she and her pastor make frightening statements about war in Iraq as being a holy Christian crusade? As I recall, you were more than eager to have Obama held responsible for the words of his pastor. Why should she not be held to the same standard that you held Obama to?

    There is also the troubling notion of the ethics investigation concerning her actions as governor. Once again, these allegations were not concocted by the press or her liberal foes, they arose from her official conduct.

    But you would blithely ignore all of the above. Why?

    Does it not strike you as hypocritical that her record, which by presidential standards is meager at best, is being inflated to ridiculous proportions?

    Danny, if you find Obama’s record unimpressive, what about Palin is so impressive? She has been out of the country once in her life, and yet is touted a being capable in foreign policy. How does that work? Some R talking heads have even suggested that her record eclipses that of Joe Biden. That one needs quite a bit of explanation as well. Yes, she has commanded that mighty army that is the Alaskan National Guard, 4000 strong, but has she even issued a single order? If so, what?

    Palin is a absolute light weight whose choice is indicative of the extent that former “maverick” John McCain has become subservient to the evangelical base of the Republican Party. It also calls into question his lack of judgement in choosing someone so unfit to be commander in chief. His concern for national security doesn’t run very deep or he would have chosen somebody, anybody, who has more of a record to look to.

    If you have any information that would rebut the factual record concerning Palin’s tenure as mayor and governor, please feel free to share that with us. I suspect, however, that you will resort to your usual invective and ad hominem attacks and totally ignore Palin’s record. Face it Danny, you are a right wing cheerleader and won’t let a few good facts get in your way.

    You fairly embody the immortal words of Earl Landgrebe: “Don’t confuse me with facts. I’ve made up my mind.”

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  15. Scout said on September 4, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    From my perspective, Palin did what she was tapped to do and that is fire up the Evangelical Base. They were hoping she’d also drag a few Hillary holdouts to their side but I doubt that was accomplished with that smug, condescending, sarcastic speech that did nothing to introduce who she is and what her party stands for. She spent the entire time playing the role of one of the Heathers, mocking Obama and all that he stands for. She went after community organizers (so did Rudy) and she told a myriad of outright lies.

    Everyone expected her to be able to pull off a teleprompter speech, and she did. What is not being said is how her speechwriters completely failed to articulate any vision for this country, any relief for the real pain people are in. At least AP had the decency to publish a list of the inconsistancies.

    The unintended consequence of the Caribou Barbie VP nom (hat tip to Malloy) was to fire up the Democratic base… you know, community organizers.

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  16. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    Gasman, what do you think of OJ Simpson? You remind me of someone else who used to frequent this blog.

    Anyway, as to invective, you really are a hypocrite. Wasn’t it you talking about pissing on graves a few days ago? Right.

    Regarding Palin’s record, I think she said it best:

    I was mayor of my hometown. And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involved. I guess — I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a community organizer, except that you have actual responsibilities.

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  17. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Community organizers have responsibilities too. They just don’t get paid as much, if anything.

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  18. coozledad said on September 4, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Attack. Move the goalposts. Attack. Move the goalposts.
    Consider what would happen if a Left-wing Radio host referred to a Republican Women’s auxillary as a Pack of Republican Whores. Well, the Republican mouthpieces are really stoking the shit:
    You see, it’s alright with Danny when his limp-dicked avatars of spew go after us, but panic starts to set in when the tables turn, and some secessionist is caught dead to rights pissing on the flag.
    Alaska is not first by any metric. It’s 49th at best. And yes, her family is no different from mine, but my family could use a little jail time.
    She and her old man are a pair of Aaron Burrs, dedicated only to their personal enrichment. Everything they do says God Damn America, day in day out. Fuck them and their shabby last-minute pretense of patriotism. Fuck Republicans, and fuck their pussy-ass whining.
    Stand up and take it, for once, you blowhards.

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  19. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    OMG, you must be kidding, cooz. I mean, the conservatives on this blog are few and far between. And we do stand up and take it and largely take the high road.

    Conversely, the overwhleming majority of liberals here are constantly whining and circling the wagons. And using base invective. And speaking of taking it, some have even left here because they could not handle anything unless it was a constant cacophony of left-wing cheer leading agreement.

    Too bad…

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  20. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Who left?
    I know I fade in and out, mostly due to work load.
    Here’s something I will whine about. What was up with the speakers last night referring to replacing the liberals in Washington? Last time I checked, Bush and Cheney were still the folks McCain and Palin were looking to replace. All the pissing and moaning about big government in the last eight years yadda yadda. It’s BUSH you guys are running against.

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  21. nancy said on September 4, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    While I hope we can keep things civil with Danny/Jeff, I think C’dad nails it with his summation: “Attack. Move the goalposts. Attack. Move the goalposts.” That’s it, and that’s why I lost my temper this week, in a nutshell.

    Nothing convinces me that the GOP stands for nothing more than winning elections, cementing power and looting the federal treasury more than their reaction to Sarah Palin. I had no particular animosity toward her until last night, but when I hear Republicans try to say with a straight face that it’s “sexist” to attack her for A, B or C, the hair on my head threatens to catch fire.

    After 20-some years of culture-warring, we’re supposed to stand by, applaud that she chose to continue a special-needs pregnancy and went back to work THREE DAYS AFTER THE BIRTH and pretend that they haven’t been calling women who went back to work three months having a healthy baby bad mothers? After years of hearing Republicans say that birth-control information will cause teenagers to turn into rutting beasts, that abstinence is what works, and here she is with her pregnant 17-year-old daughter and her future son-in-law, all of 18, and we just, what? Smile and say “that’s nice?” We’re not supposed to notice that the daughter of a high-school science teacher thinks intelligent design should be taught in public schools?

    (And why do I get the idea young Levi Johnston didn’t know he was getting married until Monday morning? Just a hunch.)

    And that’s just her personal life. They spend months calling Obama a callow, inexperienced, vapid twit and then deliver the “commanded the Alaska National Guard” and “15 miles across the Bering Strait” lines, and what, exactly, is an intelligent person to do besides spit coffee all over the monitor? Will Palin be made available for media interviews? Is she ever going to answer some of the very legitimate questions that have been raised in the last week? Or are we just going to let the amen corner take it from here?

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  22. coozledad said on September 4, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Still whining. Or is it whinging?
    Too bad someone had to leave here and go flip on one of the hundreds of media outlets that carry nothing but Republican party sanctioned shit. I grieve for them.

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  23. Gasman said on September 4, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    Yet again you assiduously avoided any of the specific criticisms which I leveled at Palin. She’s fiscally irresponsible, she’s a bully, and she is a major league flip-flopper. As to pissing on graves, I stand by my list: Jesse Helms and Dick Cheney. You want to defend their virtue and honor go right ahead, I’m sure it would be amusing. Point of fact, saying that I intensely dislike someone is not the same as resorting to only invective and ad hominem. I’ve been voluminous in citing my reasons for my loathing for the two men. You resort to reflexive unthinking cheap shots that sound just like right wing radio and TV; lots of name calling but curiously devoid of any reasoning. Just once I’d like a conservative to give me a compelling reason to vote Republican besides just screaming “liberals suck.”

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  24. nancy said on September 4, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Oh, and just to add: Don’t EVEN try to tell me that if the Obamas’ daughters were older, and one of them was pregnant at 17, by a boy who described himself on his MySpace page as, say, a “fuckin’ playa,” that the usual suspects wouldn’t have to be carried off on stretchers. I mean, don’t even.

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  25. Joe Kobiela said on September 4, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    You sound like a typical democrat, you don’t get your way you yell and scream and curse, shows you have a small vocabulary.
    Danny stick to your guns, I like Palin,thought maybe the now gang might at least back her on being a working mom but I guess it is ok only if you are a Dem. Amazing how scared the left is over this lady. If she is so terrible,why would you want to get her off the ticket? afraid the silent majority might get her elected? It just really grates on the dem’s when they can’t figure out why us low class, silent, uneducated masses, won’t believe like they do.

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  26. brian stouder said on September 4, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Scared???! Scared of the lip-sticked bull dog??

    Palin ain’t no Pale Rider; the more I learn of her, the less I see.

    Just for one thing –

    Palin Slashed Funding To Help Teenage Mothers. Earlier this year, Palin used a line-item veto “to slash funding for a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a place to live.” Funding for Covenant House Alaska, which provides transitional housing for teen mothers, was cut by 20 percent — from $5 million to $3.9 million. [Washington Post, 9/3/08]

    Given that “earlier this year” her own daughter might have become a “teen in need of a place to live”, Palin sounds craven, to me

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  27. coozledad said on September 4, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Vocabulary isn’t the issue here, it’s capacity for empathy. In some birth traumas or skating injuries, or in some families that are currently running this country into the ground, the empathic response has been all but obliterated. It is as though there is a barrier separating the reptilian brain from the more highly developed frontal cortex. Perhaps science will solve this mystery regarding the lump of foul jello that passes for a Republican brain, and hopefully it will happen before the Republicans kill all the funding for science.

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  28. jcburns said on September 4, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    There seems to be some disconnect when I (or others) bring up ‘hypocrisy.’ It’s a fancy word. My spell-check has to frequently correct me on the spelling. But what it means is dead simple:
    If you say that it’s wrong when person A (from a party other than yours) does something, then if person B (who you like) does the same thing and you say “oh, that’s fine, that’s admirable,” then it’s clear that you don’t believe in applying the same standard to everyone’s actions.

    So. Library censorship. Supporting those who desire to secede from the US. Claiming the reformer title and taking pork money. Working mothers: threat or menace? Claiming community organizers are responsibility-free. Claiming that mantle of reform while running your tiny town into deficit spending. Talk a few environmental buzzwords while advocating an energy policy that basically says “we’ve got a big ol state up here…open ‘er up, take all you want.”

    And, oh yeah, the very Republicans who make snide remarks about ‘Obama the Celebrity’ are treating their VP nominee…how?

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  29. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Silent majority? You guys have been in power for eight years, twenty out of the last twenty eight years. I remember when you weren’t. The economy was in good shape.

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  30. derwood said on September 4, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    She sounds nuts to me.

    Danny, you posted 3 sentences that summed up her record for you…all they said was that she had responsibilities and implied that community organizers do not. How do those 3 sentences explain her record? All of us have responsibilities…no matter what our job or place in this world we have responsibilities. I’m just smart enough to know that getting through my six sigma project does not make me qualified to be Vice President.


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  31. jcburns said on September 4, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    Joe, okay, I’ll ask: why won’t you believe as we do? (I’ll leave out your class slurs…you probably have more education than I do.)

    You’re right. I can’t figure it out. It grates on me.

    Is it just that you’ve been taught “anything from the left: go the opposite way, just to piss them off?”

    Do you feel good doing that?

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  32. Scout said on September 4, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Joe, freedom loving people everywhere are scared of this snarky, sarcastic and inexperienced Heather being one step from the most powerful position in the world. Not just liberals. Grow up and tell us what qualifies her instead of mendacious name calling, misrepresenting the values and intentions of people who disagree with you. Nobody here who is cheerleading for Palin has come up with anything positive to say about her policy platform, all they’ve added is defensive non issue clap trap about Palin’s family woes. Which, by the way, the McCain team is the one exploiting the hell out of that mess. Maybe they don’t want to talk about ISSUES either.

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  33. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    jc, it was her first speech. Obama has given dozens over a multiyear period and still we are mostly hearing bromides and undefined calls for hope and change that are cheered and cheered by sycopant masses. Some have even fainted at his speeches (regardless of the fact that there is very little substance).

    I’d say that the Republicans have a ways to go with their exuberance before it reaches those ridiculous heights.

    EDIT: And BTW, Scout. VP’s are the attack dogs, normally. Right? So a little snark and sarcasm are permissible, especially at the convention. Or was the D convention all for of nice-talk? Right.

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  34. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    So I should like her because she’s a working mom and Democrats are too exuberant. Anything else?
    I don’t think that was her first speech. She’s a highly experienced leader, isn’t she? She has executive experience, unlike Obama or Biden. Biden doesn’ t have any because he’s a senator, just like McCain. Who was a congressman before that…
    I heard a tape of her inaugural speech as governor. It was very different from last night’s. Lots and lots of religious references, which were completely absent last night. Also missing from every speech I heard last night was the word constitution. Lots of fighting and suffering and evil references, no constitution.

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  35. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Um, derwood. So what is Obama’s record? Voting “present” numerious times at the state assembly level and US Senate level? Writing two personal memoirs but not authoring any legislation? Running for president for what seems and interminable amount of time? And he is at the front of the Democratic ticket, may I remind you. Not VP pick.

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  36. jcburns said on September 4, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    Danny, if I send you the transcript of Obama’s acceptance speech…just black and white text in Courier 12, will you point out the undefined calls for hope and change?

    I mean it was LOADED with specifics. So much so that Jon Stewart poked fun at all the “I will do this” and “I will do that” constructions in a row–but boy, they were there. Cut taxes for these people in this way, offer tax breaks to these startups, become independent of Mideast oil by this year…really, it’s all there in black and white.

    It was also loaded with (to my ear quite sincere) attempts to reach across the aisle and do all of this in a new way.

    So, do me a favor. Read it!

    I’ve read every word of Palin’s speech in black and white, and will do the same with McCain. Not seeing what I saw in Obama’s speech…and definitely not seeing the respect that Obama AND Biden offered McCain in their speeches.

    (Edit: and now the “just authored two memoirs” thing is being tossed out there like he dictated them over a weekend. “The Audacity of Hope” is one magnificent piece of writing…enough to count as a life’s work for any number of more hack authors. Thoughtful. Intelligent. It’s at your library. It’s worth your time. How dare they trivialize that achievement.)

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  37. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    Mary, I meant her first speech at the national level.

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  38. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    Yes, John. I will. You know the address, no doubt.

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  39. brian stouder said on September 4, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Some have even fainted at his speeches (regardless of the fact that there is very little substance).

    Another red herring! I think Danny has a fish farm out there in Californy! Sean Hannity – who dutifully apes Uncle Rush’s “messiah” chant – almost never fails to mentions people fainting at Obama events.

    But – I personally attended an event in Fort Wayne which featured President Clinton last spring, and two people keeled over (one swooner was just three or four feet from me)

    See, if you go to one of these big campaign events, and if you’re a UIP (Un Important Person) like me, what happens is you stand and stand and stand and stand; and you get crowded, and people get in your space, and you shuffle a little and then stand some more (from the time I got out of the car to the time I returned was about 4 hours).

    The woman I saw swoon was probably about 70 years old.

    By way of saying, the D primary race had all the pizazz, and drew all the crowds, and some folks (at several different candidates’ events) over-exerted themselves.

    I think GOP apologists, looking at the funereal McCain events, developed pizazz envy….but maybe Ms Palin will cure that (so to speak)

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  40. Jolene said on September 4, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    Danny, Obama has given a lot of speeches in large crowds in the hot sun. I think you’ll find that that would account for any fainting that’s occurred. On the issue of bromides, if you’re not satisfied with his speeches, go to his website and look at any of the many position papers posted there. (I’ve heard that there’s a place online where you can calculate how his tax plan would affect you, but I couldn’t find it. Maybe somebody else can help?) You’ll find one on almost any subject you can imagine and, by the way, compare what’s on offer to what’s available on the McCain site. If anybody is offering bromides, it’s him.

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  41. moe99 said on September 4, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    With respect to Palin’s executive experience as mayor of Wasilla. Wasilla has a city manager who runs the city day to day. From what I understand the mayor is little more than a figurehead. Hope the MSM media figures that out. Could be yet another contradiction to add to the mass we have already.

    Apologies to Gasman on the prior thread. I just saw your post on this. Funny Danny didn’t see it and went off on her executive experience as mayor. He needs to read up a bit more on the facts on the ground…..

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  42. nancy said on September 4, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Ding ding ding! And Brian wins the thread with “pizazz envy!”

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  43. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    I had to stand out in our parking lot today for 50 minutes waiting for Ahnuld to show up (they wanted a lot of employees in the background) and I nearly swooned. It’s very hot out there. I bailed out before his speech, but that was ok. The press guy wanted as many uniformed employees as possible and I’m wearing my jacket that inspires violence in pysch patients. A few of the non patient care type managers changed into scrubs to be in the photos.

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  44. Jolene said on September 4, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Re the two memoirs issue: Only one of Obama’s books is a memoir. That one, Dreams of My Father, was written years ago just after he left law school and describes his quest for identity given his unusual background. The second, Audacity of Hope, is a policy-oriented book similar to those that many politicians write as they prepare to run for high office. One difference: Obama wrote his campaign book himself rather than working with a ghostwriter, as McCain has done in producing his several memoirs.

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  45. Joe Kobiela said on September 4, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Let’s see, Obama has a campaign manager who runs his day to day affairs, yet he claims, he runs his own campaign, managing people and money. Is that the same??

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  46. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 4, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    [runs in, out of breath]

    Subject change to post topic at top — commentary in newspapers compared to “airless room,” — too true. Which makes reading blogging inputs like a conversation on a windy clifftop — “Heeeeaaaaaaathcliffe! Heeeeaaaaaattthhhcliffe!”

    It’s a good day, utterly independent of political anything, except that i’m a Republican doing {rim shot} community organizing! With Dems and GOPers! God is an iron!*

    [runs out, waving]

    *Spider Robinson reference; look it up, it actually makes sense when you think about it.

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  47. Scout said on September 4, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    The crickets chirp as I wait for someone to tell me what Sarah’s qualifications to hold the highest office in the land are. The comeback “Oh yeah? Well OBAMA…. blah blah blah.” is not cutting it.

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  48. Jolene said on September 4, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Joe, like the CEOs other large organizations, Obama selected a senior staff, with whom he appears to communicate daily or several times a day, and, presumably, they appointed and supervise others. It’s called delegation of authority and occurs in any organization larger than a teenage lawnmowing service. In fact, appointing people to run things is pretty much what presidents do, so how well he has done it is actually pretty relevant to judging his as a potential president.

    Here are several articles that have to do w/ how his campaign operates.

    Obama’s Brain Trust
    The candidate’s handpicked team of top advisers has raised more than $250 million, outmaneuvered the Clintons and created a formidable grass-roots political machine. So why doesn’t anyone know their names?

    The Machinery of Hope
    Inside the grass-roots field operation of Barack Obama, who is transforming the way political campaigns are run

    Obama team remains unshaken
    (Deals w/ sticking to strategy after losses)

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  49. moe99 said on September 4, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Brian, this must be the manifestation of pizazz envy. Up on the overhead at concerning the Palin speech:

    “RNC highlights include slam after slam of Obama
    Watch Now: Live on »”

    Tell me truly, does this sound presidential to you?

    And Joe, in a word: the answer is “no” to your question. The two are not even remotely comparable.

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  50. Bruce Fields said on September 4, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    “You may remember this picture from your own college days: remember the person who looked at your pile, quoted you a total….”

    That always seemed terribly sad to me. When a textbook’s important to a course, it becomes something you’ve invested a lot of time into–so when I see students selling them back for half the price (or a lot less), then it seems to me like a sign something has gone wrong.

    There are few things I like more than a great textbook….

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  51. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    I really want to hear Palin speak without someone giving her all the words, pauses, ad libs etc.
    Now I will say something snarky about her. She looks like Peggy Hill, winner of the substitute teacher of the year award.

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  52. brian stouder said on September 4, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    moe – my question for the bigtime teevee/print news people is, what’s the REAL story about the phantom introductory video for Sarah Palin?

    I heard msnbc at lunchtime report (with a straight face) that they scuttled the video because Rudy’s speech ran double length, since he kept improvising and going off-script.

    Sorry, I ain’t buying that one. What is the dollar value of a live nationwide broadcast, on all the broadcast networks and all the cable news outlets, per minute?

    How golden was the opportunity to introduce this person? How could the former mayor of New York City be allowed to just yap and yap, and lose the chance to show the video….which is NOW released to the public.

    I betcha there was something in that video that was just too indefensible (for whatever reason)

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  53. nancy said on September 4, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    Brian, for once I believe the official explanation. I had my laptop open and wasn’t paying close attention, but I thought Rudy was running way long, milking all his applause lines and was so awful I can only, once again, echo Roy, who said, he “may have been so warmly applauded in part for giving the delegates a good demonstration of how right they were not to have chosen him.”

    TV newsies wear earpieces so they can hear their director yelling, WRAP IT UP, but maybe all Rudy could hear was MORE YOU BIG STUD MOOOOORE.

    Sarah needed to be done by 11 p.m., and was scheduled to start at 10:35 p.m. I wasn’t watching the clock, but maybe she went long, too.

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  54. Jolene said on September 4, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Here you go, Mary. This is a video of her speaking at an event that is a sort of “graduation ceremony” for youth in her church. Not a formal speech. She sounds like Peggy Hill too. This is the film in which she seems to suggest that building a natural gas pipeline is God’s will.

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  55. brian stouder said on September 4, 2008 at 4:09 pm


    Well, when (if ever!) I hear “MORE YOU BIG STUD MOOOOORE“, the machinery hears “WRAP IT UP”!

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  56. moe99 said on September 4, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    Well Mittens wins an award for being out to lunch. From Think Progress:

    Romney mocks Gore for non-existent private jet.

    Last night, at the Republican National Convention, former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney (R) called for “the immediate drilling for more oil off of our shores” and followed with a personal attack on Vice President Al Gore that received thunderous applause:

    And I have one more recommendation for energy conservation — let’s keep Al Gore’s private jet on the ground!

    ThinkProgress contacted Gore spokesperson Kalee Kreider, who replied, “Gore doesn’t own a jet.”

    Oh, and the stock market is down, what is it? 300 or 350? Is that confidence or what? Especially as the theme for the RNC last night was supposed to be “prosperity.”


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  57. Catherine said on September 4, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Danny asks above: “Is a person only worthy of your respect if they embrace killing babies for whatever reason of convenience?”

    First: Please stop being so insulting. Second: A person is worthy of my respect if they avoid intolerance and hypocrisy to the best of their ability. Third: The previous conversation about abstinence education was interesting and enlightening. That’s the type of thing I like about this “place.” Not the scoring of points. (see #1)

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  58. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 4:46 pm

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  59. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 4, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    Think McCain-Feingold, think Johnny Mac and Teddy K arm in arm: please don’t forget how much the Republican establishment has disliked and distanced themselves from this man over the last twenty years, and he keeps reminding them what they claim to stand for. I think McCain-Palin will work more with Sens. Obama and Biden in their White House than Obama-Biden would with Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin, and i think McCain will kick the stuffing out of quite a few entrenched interests in Washington, R and D. I don’t see Obama doing that quite so well, and so throughly.

    As for Palin and governance, i’m still thinking i like what i see here: follow the links. This isn’t the substitute teacher at work, and it all holds up quite well versus the legislative efforts on the record of State Sen. Obama. Don’t hate him, don’t fear him, just think he’d waffle in the wind in Washington, and McCain will press the silver lever and flush some viscous material down the Congressional commode — Bush can’t even find the building at the other end of PA Ave., let alone find the restrooms.

    Gotta go set up for PTA night in the gym: God is an iron. Look it up.

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  60. jcburns said on September 4, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    “I think McCain-Palin will work more with Sens. Obama and Biden in their White House than Obama-Biden would with Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin”

    …based on? cosmic rays? a ‘feeling’? your gut?

    Obama explicitly laid out an agenda of cooperation during his acceptance speech. It’s as if the Republicans have been yelling “la la la la I can’t hear you.”

    I’ll listen carefully to McCain…or maybe read his words. or whoever wrote his speech’s words.

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  61. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 4:59 pm

    During the particularly windy Rudy speech, he started out with this, “on one hand you’ve got a war hero maverick superhero reformer ….,” and on the other hand you’ve got a…

    My 14 year old son filled in the words, “black guy.”

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  62. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    First: Please stop being so insulting. Second: A person is worthy of my respect if they avoid intolerance and hypocrisy to the best of their ability. Third: The previous conversation about abstinence education was interesting and enlightening. That’s the type of thing I like about this “place.” Not the scoring of points. (see #1)

    Catherine, perhaps you should save some of the righteous indignation for your fellow travellers here who are deriding us conservatives with expletive laden mewlings. My posts have been mild in comparison. Very mild. Man, talk about hypocrisy.

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  63. moe99 said on September 4, 2008 at 5:05 pm

    Obama’s response to the RNC today:

    You wouldn’t know that this is such a critical election by watching the convention last night. I know we had our week. And the Republicans deserve theirs. But it’s been amazing for me to watch over the last two nights. If you sit there, and you watch it. You’re hearing a lot about John McCain, and he’s got a compelling biography as a P.O.W.

    You’re hearing an awful lot about me. Most of which is not true.

    What you’re not hearing is a lot about you.

    You haven’t heard one word about how they’re going to make the health system work – so that when a union is negotiating with a company it’s not all just a discussion about higher premiums and you guys can actually start talking about higher wages and benefits.

    You haven’t heard one word about how we’re gonna create more apprenticeship programs like the ones we have here. Or give other people a chance to train in new trades.

    You haven’t heard one word about getting serious about green and alternative energy. The kind of work that is resulting in all the expansion and hiring here.

    You haven’t heard one word about how we’re going to strengthen unions so that working people get a decent stake.

    You haven’t heard one word about how we’re going to improve math and science education so that we can hire more engineers to create more products in green technology.

    You haven’t heard one word about how we’re going to deal with any aspect of the economy that is affecting you and your pocket day to day.

    Haven’t heard one word about it. Literally. Two nights. They have not said a word about it. They have not said a word about it. They’ve had a lot to say about me. But they haven’t had anything to say about you.

    And the thing that I’m insisting on in this election is that we can’t keep playing the same political games we always play.

    — Barack Obama
    York, Pennsylvania
    September 4, 2008

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  64. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    My 14 year old son filled in the words, “black guy.”

    In liberal fantasyland, that is what would be said. Just like Nancy’s imaginary “what-if” scenario wrt Obama’s daughters.

    I can’t hold that against a 14-year old, but you should know better, Mary. So now it isn’t enough to disagree on issues. Do we have to play make-believe? Some of you guys really do relish wallowing in the politics of race.

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  65. Catherine said on September 4, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Danny, I saw one entry with expletives above. Mostly, people are sharing information and opinions. You’re the one tossing around the baby-killer label. Why is it so hard for you to keep it factual and civil?

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  66. paddyo' said on September 4, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    I’m just another reader and Nancy-fan and verrrrry occasional post-er out here. But I am guessing that most other NN readers — in particular those (Gasman, Scout et al.) who called Danny out on his no-details defense of Palin — are like me in one regard: We are stillllllll waiting for him to respond with substance, not more of today’s feint-and-dodge, misdirection and subject-change. Sounds a lot like the level of rhetoric issuing from the podium in St. Paul the last couple of days: All heat, and no light.

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  67. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    I am factual. Look at yesterday’s posts regarding “knuckle dragging cousinfucks.” Go back and look at earlier posts this week when I was not around much.

    Catherine. It is difficult enough to keep on top of all of the comments to which I want to respond. Do not dilute this thread or future threads with incorrect assertions. Keep it straight and be honest. Please.

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  68. Jolene said on September 4, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    Danny, if you are really interested in communicating w/ people, you might want to resist impulses such as those that prompt you to refer to what they have written as “mewlings”. Not a great opening.

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  69. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    Well, paddyo, I have responded with some substance, but I have a lot of people to respond to and some who are making stuff up (see above). And I seem to be mostly alone here. Which is okay. I have broad shoulders, but my attention is divided.

    So don’t expect me to respond satisfactorily to your every whim. I am home sick with the flu whilst doing a deep cleaning of the house after three weeks of visitors too.

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  70. LAMary said on September 4, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Danny, I come from a family of nice white middle class staunch, like giving lots of money, going to conventions, running for office Republicans. All except me. My son was filling in the words he might have heard from his uncles and aunts and cousins. No makebelieve. It’s not as open as the racism of my father’s generation, but it’s there.

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  71. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    Danny, if you are really interested in communicating w/ people, you might want to resist impulses such as those that prompt you to refer to what they have written as “mewlings”. Not a great opening.

    It wasn’t an opening. It was buried in the middle of my umpteenth post today and well after (like several hours after) I and other conservatives had been referred to as “fucking pussy-assed whiners.”

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  72. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    Okay, Mary. I understand. Sorry if I sounded rough towards you. Not a great day.

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  73. paddyo' said on September 4, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    Fine, Danny — glad you finally explained why you STILL haven’t replied to Gasman’s very reasonable, even-mannered laying out of questions more than FIVE hours ago . . .
    Even though you HAVE seen fit to post NINE other times in that period . . .

    Hey, man, I’m just sayin’ . . .

    But if it’s the flu, I wouldn’t wish that on anybody (anybody who posts at NN, anyway), so get well soon, and get to those dust bunnies, laundry loads and crumbly carpets soon, too — so you can finally (we hope) answer Gasman’s (I’ll say it again) very reasonable recitation of questions that anyone defending Palin and whining about criticisms against her ought to be able to answer. Hey, Danny, you’re a longtimer here, you’re better than that. Step on up, boy, don’t be afraid.

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  74. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    John, I have gotten through about three-quarters of the speech you sent. I stand corrected. It was very good speech, full of details and some of them which I really agree with.

    For instance, I like his idea about tax breaks for American-job-creating companies. And I also liked what he had to say about a few other issues.

    I do believe that McCain has a good record of reaching across the aisle (which is not necessarily a strong point for me) and I think that Obama struggles to assure he will do the same from his perspective.

    But, John. You were right, but more importantly, I was wrong.

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  75. Suzi said on September 4, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Did you catch how she practically called herself an energy engineer last night?
    Palin is quite an expert on the Alaska environment, too. Who needs science?

    I’m still mad about the attack on the librarian.

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  76. Jolene said on September 4, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    FYI: Obama is appearing on Bill O’Rielly this evening, well before McCain’s speech, but during the football game on NBC.

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  77. Suzi said on September 4, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    Danny, have you had a walk on the beach lately? Good therapy for political nonsense overload. I’m gonna go make a Bloody Mary. No Kool Aid for me!
    Should be a good OhReally Show tonight!

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  78. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    Mary, Sue left over my post about the Stone Bush biopic (even though everyone else here was was having a big ol’ liberal love-fest and I only made one mildly snide comment) and that chick from Maryland left who first inferred I was a racist and then insisted I was a troll after I called her out for it.

    Gasman, it is not so much that I disagree with you that Palin may be unfit. It is more that the reaction around here has been so reflexive and premature. I say we give it a few weeks. See how she looks after the press gets some time to run stories other than about her pregnant 17-year old daughter. I may be surprised and am willing to change my mind still, but as I said a few days ago, at first blush, I really like this pick. The first female VP nominee from the GOP.

    You see, it makes me a little sick to see conservatives being constantly (and unfairly, IMO) criticized as racists, sexists and homophobes. I am none of these. So has done my heart good to see blacks, hispanics and women at cabinet level positions, as Supreme Court nominees, etc., within conservative ranks But often, it is never given any credit. The Left says that the minorities we appoint are stupid, uncle toms and everything else bad. And I think the same thing is being attempted with Palin before we really know much about her at all. And I think it is wrong.

    So, a lot about Palin will be resolved in the near future for me.

    Regarding reasons to vote conservative. I doubt I could convince you, but here is why I usually do.

    1) I want partial-birth abortion outlawed and I want everything possible done in the way of couselling, making adoptions easier and cheaper, etc. to make sure that less early-term pregnancies are terminated. I know that a lot of Democrats feel the same, but they are as beholden to the special interests that promote abortion as birth control as many Republicans are to big business. They can’t seem to break free and do the right things. Clinton refused to outlaw partial-birth abortion.

    2) Prosecuting the War on Terror: I trust McCain to do the right thing in all ways possible on this front. His bonafides are unimpeachable. End of story.

    3) Taxation: I am not much of a fiscal conservative. I don’t think that Jesus was either. I give to the poor. Directly. A lot. And I don’t live high on the hog myself. I also support a few charities that I like. But as many of you know, some charities are crooked and take the money that you intend for good and spend it on themselves.

    To me, the governement is like a big, corrupt charity. I do not trust governement for redistribution of wealth. That is where I usually line up with the smaller-governement stance. Though I know full well that both parties are guilty of absconding with our money, I do find it more odious when the guys I usually vote for do it.

    4) Finally, the lowest importance for me. Same-sex marriage troubles me and I am not alone. Obama says the following in the speech that JC sent:I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in a hospital and to live lives free of discrimination.

    I agree with that, but again, being beholden to special interests makes me think that any promise he makes to moderate the more liberal views in the Dem party will be null and void on Inarguration Day.

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  79. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 6:38 pm

    Good idea with that, Suzi. My wife and I both got the flu yesterday which just compounded the misery of the sadness of our sister and nephews having to leave on the plane yesterday. We keep telling each other we need to go to the beach today and be sick there. But then one or the other of us keeps falling asleep. Maybe we’ll do it this evening.

    Suzi, that OhReally comment cracked me up. My youngest nephew asked if we could watch the “Oh Really Factor” a couple of years ago when he was seven and we were just clicking around the TV guide at my parents house.

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  80. paddyo' said on September 4, 2008 at 6:40 pm

    Props to you, Danny, for replying to Gasman. I’ll get out of the way and let the multilogue continue . . .

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  81. MichaelG said on September 4, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    I think I know enough about Gov. Palin to entertain some serious doubts about her. She seems to have a tendency to be arrogant and autocratic and to personalize things as when she basically required senior managers in Wasilla to take a loyalty oath to her. This arose again in a big way when she used her gubernatorial powers for personal reasons to can the state’s chief law enforcement officer because he wouldn’t fire her former brother in law. She has a tendency to use her office to advance her religious agenda. This can be seen in her book banning efforts. She has made numerous statements in which she used her religious beliefs to support political and geo-political undertakings. She scooped up large sums of money from earmarks on the one hand while condemning the practice on the other. She has been less than candid in her statements about her positions with respect to the bridge to nowhere and about where the money went. She has used her pregnant daughter and prospective son in law to advance her political fortunes while condemning anybody who would comment about the practice. She claims to be on board with Sen. McCain and his “Country First” slogans while maintaining a very close and long term association with an extreme secessionist group. Can you imagine the screams if Obama had a similar association? With these and all the other things everybody else is pointing out it seems to me that this is someone whom I don’t want anywhere near the White House. I’ll be the first to admit that she scares the crap out of me. What have I omitted? What else is there that we don’t know yet? Whatever else, I don’t believe that this woman is stupid. I think one would underestimate her at one’s peril.

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  82. joodyb said on September 4, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    in response to the anchor rising post, did someone already post this one? i’m too dizzy to recall if i saw this here or elsewhere. this seems just as valid as the other in terms of blogectivity:

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  83. Suzi said on September 4, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    Danny – “Suzi, that OhReally comment cracked me up.” Tip o’ the hat to your nephew and Keith Olbermann for that. I hope you guys get a walk out at Del Mar . . . or Torrey Pines . . . or the Cove . . . Coronado . . . ahhhhh. OB at sunset!

    On partial birth abortion — shouldn’t we really use medical terms for the procedure referred to? My understanding — and I’m not a medical professional — is that pba is a made-up term from the anti-reprodcutive rights folks. My sister-in-law is a delivery nurse and has said that sometimes procedures like that are necessary, for example, for the woman’s health when there is a fetus that has no brain or is hydrocephalic. Sad, but it happens.

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  84. Suzi said on September 4, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    “I think one would underestimate her at one’s peril.” Right! Look what we have in the White House now — cut from the same cloth, I think. She might make an adequate governor in a couple of years, maybe she’ll learn something of decorum and church/state protocol. Today she seems like a wolf-pup murdering attack bitch with a taste for blood and power. But not too deep and way too ideological (Christian warior).

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  85. Gasman said on September 4, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    This is how the online Oxford Dictionary defines “hypocrisy”:

    “The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform; pretense.”

    Pretty much sounds like Palin decrying federal earmarks after accepting millions while mayor of Wasilla. Sounds like the entire Republican party decrying Obama’s lack of experience while lionizing that of Palin. Sounds like McCain denouncing the evangelical right for years and then hopelessly pandering to them to draw them into his tent. Pretty much sounds like the Rs concerning the economy, foreign relations, and the war.

    Shall I go on? I’ve got hundreds more.

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  86. alex said on September 4, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    Danny, you’re yankin’ peoples’ chains. No one goes from being that obtuse to this sensible. Shit, I could even agree with your perfectly reasonable position on abortion.

    In fact, Danny, you know what I think would go an even longer way toward minimizing demand than any of the ideas out there? Taking the shame and stigma out of race mixing.

    So Obama’s the best pro-life president there’s ever been as far as I’m concerned.

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  87. Suzi said on September 4, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    “Pretty much sounds like the Rs concerning the economy . . . ”
    Interesting that post-Palin, the market had the worst day in 2 months.

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  88. moe99 said on September 4, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    an African American perspective.

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  89. caliban said on September 4, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    Palin’s speech was written by Matthew Scully, whose job was to provide a veneer of openness and moderation to ideologues. As with McCain, God knows what he believes. Of course, the implicit convolutions and contradictions inherent in the message are as convoluted as a patch of wisteria, which Southerners know is the only thing so primally self-preserving a force of nature it can devour kudzu alive.

    Invasions of privacy by the media are emanations of dlite attacks, but conservatives are free to attack the idea of any Constitutional right to privacy as nonexistent. I’d like to believe that if Chelsea Clinton turned up pregnant in ’96, Republicans would have said that was a family matter, but an idiot could see that was a fat chance. And the Clinton’s are smart enough to understand that educating kids about contraception is an intelligent choice, both life-affirming and protective of family.

    It would also be consistent with the Democratic platform that lines up with the American Council of Catholic Bishops’ idea about making abortion as rare as possible. The Republicans excised that idea from their platform.

    She will apparently continue to claim she opposed the bridge to nowhere. In this instance, she’s not a hypocrite. She’s a liar. (Too harsh? Prefabricator? Executive experince at fudging?) She woofed it at the trough, and when the Bridge became an object of ridicule, she took the money and ran to other programs she claimed were more important for her state. No doubt, they were. They couldn’t be less important.

    Is it to much to ask that Americans have the hindsight to understand that Congressional didn’t think even Bushco could lie with such abandon? Why is it that there are still Americans so dumb or recalcitrant they won’t admit that the case for the invasion was compelling and that it was a soggy tissue of lies at the same time? If the President tells you something, is it your sworn duty to question his honesty? His judgement, yeah. Alegedly incontrovertible evidence in an emergent situation?

    There was a difference at the time that people seem to have forgotten.
    the Democrat’s that voted with W believed he was telling the truth about some sort of imminent threat. Republicans were voting a Party line. In the first place, there’s the original invasion of Iraq by W’s dad. Kuwait was slant drilling and stealing oil. There’s the historical consideration that Kuwait was just made up. Somebody in the previous Bush administration sent an emissary to Saddam and said that’s your oil, they’re stealing it, and we don’t care what you do about it. Slassic Cartwright moveto induce an excuse.
    where is April Glaspie these days?

    The invasion is not a topic of conversation for Republican conventioneers. Sarah Solipsist thought it was all about oil, but now she doesn’t It was. Like the abject spectacle of the USA sucking up to a bunch of Stans to run pipelines. Like Palin and Alaskastan.

    Lexisnexis doesn’t show a hit for Afghanistan and terr. My bad, terrorism. Let’s try Could somebody from the National press ask the Great Moose Hunter if she’s ever even this the slightest the slightest consideration. When Republicans bring up the proximity of Russia and Alaska, sorry, that’s to dumb to consider, if you don’t mean a Ceilei, with the resident Russian sub skiipper., and Mark Knoppler providing perfect music.

    My ex and I have experience with employees and fiscal responsibility. W don’t think that qualifies us for anything. It doesn’t have a whole lot to do with raising a perfect daughter. Sarah Palin questioning Barack’s agility to lead is really something , ludicrous.

    It’s not impossible American voters are dumb enough to buy this.

    W was a draft dodger. Clinton wasn’t. Kerry pulled comrades out of the Mekong under fire. There is proof these things happened. Getting shot down doesn’t make you a hero when what you were doing in the first place was a war crime.

    John McCain backed Kerry’s investigations. Including everything to do with the Reagan Gang. Including Ollie North, Cheney, Rummy, etc. McCain bailed for political purposes. Kerry thought McCain was his ally. McCain slunk off.

    Then there was the investigation of bcci. McCain started out hot on that one too. Kerry nailed these miscrants too. McCain bailed again.

    What says more about the maverick bullshit and McCain’s character is how the little bastard hid behind his across the line colleague. He let Kerry take the lead in everything and McCai cclaimed to be a maverick. Then he stabbed Kerry in the back. All anybidy with a brain needs to know about John McCain is that most of what he claims in the senate, John Kerry accomplishe, And when Jerome Corsi and Swift-boat came around, McCain bailed like Poppy Bush.

    He’res a question or two

    Did you think it was fine when Raygunistas raped and murdered Maryknoll mums because they were freedom fighters. Kerry exposed these asholes.

    None of this may be important.
    but if you don’t think you’re civil liverties have been trashed in the interest of people we sure as shit don’t want to run our government. Kerry’s story. We were floating along and all hell blew up. W’s: We were running low on Maker’s Mark.

    Kerry was heroic in battle. That’s what everybody there says happened. John McCain claimed he had Kerry’s back. He proved to be the most bask-stabbing peece of shit ever hit the face of America.

    McCain isgned on to Kerry prosecutor mode and he just fucking abandoned him. McCain knows Kerry was a war hero if that’s possible. More than being a sky pilot. He ought to say so. He ought to admit to what W did was runningfromservice like a chickenshit chickenhawk.

    When did Sarah Pali n express an idea that wasn’t horseshit She geliebes her family is should be entitled to privacy. She doesnt beliebe anybody els ise is entitled to privacy.
    She believes it’s the absolut right for everybody to hound another kid id the same situation about their choice? No, she things she knows better.

    Bridge to Nowhere , she lied her ass about that. Way I see Republicans will lie their ass about anything. Biggest lie, this revolting bitch claimed she opposed the bridge to nowhere. No she didn’t. She can take this to nowhere but if she does shes a fucking liar. Kerry wa sesented with somebody ckaiming to be the president. Was he supposed to find out he was a baldfaced liar?

    Bush II and Bush I they simply lied. Blaming their perfidy on Democrats is unjust.

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  90. caliban said on September 4, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    t I remember of the Grande. Arthur Browne fire. I never saw any of the great Detroit Bands at the Grande. Creme, but Procol at the teen center playibbd SAalty Dawd, scr, mc5, basically fuck evereybody else, not even close.

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  91. moe99 said on September 4, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    Thought of the mild mannered one when I read this on the Making Light site, except Patrick Nielsen-Hayden is pretty po’d about it:

    “September 04, 2008
    Slime, and several answers to slime

    Posted by Patrick at 04:32 PM * 35 comments

    “I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a community organizer, except that you have actual responsibilities.”
    —Republican vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin, acceptance speech, September 3, 2008

    A. Serwer on Tapped:

    [C]ommunity organizers aren’t just those rabble-rousers who help keep people from getting evicted or protest police brutality—they’re basically the ordinary people across the political spectrum who to try hold government accountable to its citizens. Mocking that really shows how much contempt the party has for ordinary people. Republicans look down their noses at alleged “elites” while directing their anger at community organizers, who actually live and work among the people politicians only pay attention to when they’re looking for votes. But it’s not surprising that a party that has spent the last eight years running government into the ground would be irritated by an active citizenry demanding that government actually do its job, rather than simply letting incompetent pols go about their business. If there’s any takeaway from this theme, it’s that the right would rather Americans shut up and fall in line.

    If I had spent my mayoralty subjecting people to loyalty tests and trying to ban books, a community organizer might make me nervous, too. If I had been mayor of a town that was left with 20 million dollars in debt after my tenure, I wouldn’t be on TV talking about how well I had handled my responsibilities and how awful community organizers are. Because, after all, community organizers have the responsibility of helping regular people cope with the messes irresponsible politicians leave behind.

    Christopher Hayes at the Nation:

    [M]y dad is a community organizer, so lemme spell this out: the difference between a community organizer and a politician is that a community organizer can’t tell anyone what to do. They have to listen. So they can’t order books banned from a library to indulge their own religious sensibilities. They can’t fire someone because they didn’t follow orders to fire an estranged family member. They can’t ram through a $15 million dollar sports complex that leaves their local town groaning underneath the debt. Unlike politicians, they don’t have any power other than the power of people who want to see something changed.

    Al Giordano at The Field:

    Palin couldn’t help herself last night. She had to say, in a few fateful words, “I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a ‘community organizer,’ except that you have actual responsibilities.”
    Translation: I got elected and therefore I am better than all of you!

    Joe Klein at Time magazine’s “Swampland” blog:

    This morning, I received a press release from a group called Catholic Democrats about the work—the mission, the witness—that Obama performed after he got out of college. Here’s the first paragraph:
    Catholic Democrats is expressing surprise and shock that Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin’s acceptance speech tonight mocked her opponent’s work in the 1980s for the Catholic Campaign for Human Development. She belittled Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama’s experience as a community organizer in Catholic parishes on the South Side of Chicago, work he undertook instead of pursuing a lucrative career on Wall Street. In her acceptance speech, Ms. Palin said, “I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a community organizer, except that you have actual responsibilities.” Community organizing is at the heart of Catholic Social Teaching to end poverty and promote social justice.

    So here is what Giuliani and Palin didn’t know: Obama was working for a group of churches that were concerned about their parishioners, many of whom had been laid off when the steel mills closed on the south side of Chicago. They hired Obama to help those stunned people recover and get the services they needed—job training, help with housing and so forth—from the local government. It was, dare I say it, the Lord’s work—the sort of mission Jesus preached. (As opposed to the war in Iraq, which Palin described as a “task from God.”)

    This is what Palin and Giuliani were mocking. They were making fun of a young man’s decision “to serve a cause greater than himself,” in the words of John McCain. They were, therefore, mocking one of their candidate’s favorite messages. Obama served the poor for three years, then went to law school. To describe this service—the first thing he did out of college, the sort of service every college-educated American should perform, in some form or other—as anything other than noble is cheap and tawdry and cynical in the extreme.

    Perhaps La Pasionaria of the Northern Slope didn’t know this when she read the words they gave her. But Giuliani—a profoundly lapsed Catholic, who must have met more than a few religious folk toiling in the inner cities—should have known. (“I don’t even know what that is,” he sneered.”) What a shameful performance.

    Christy Hardin Smith on Firedoglake:
    Cleaning up a local riverbed or a walking trail with your kid’s scout troop? Republicans think you’re a loser.
    Working with a job training or literacy program to help folks move from welfare to work? Republicans think your efforts deserve ridicule. Promoting a spay and neuter program at your local animal shelter? Republicans are laughing at you. Volunteer at your church pantry to help the least of these? Republicans are mocking you.

    Christy nails it. If you spend any time whatsoever doing stuff to help other people out, these freaks gathered in the Xcel Energy Center despise you.
    No more mercy. These people need to be more than defeated. They need to be driven from our public life. “

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  92. Calliope said on September 4, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    Moe, did you see great comment quoted on that thread? It’s from the Democratic email of the day:

    “Mrs. Palin needs to be reminded that Jesus Christ was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor.”

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  93. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    Alex, I think you must be yanking my chain. Why don’t you try responding to a couple of dozen people who are in extreme disagreement with you but taking different tones and try keeping your own tone even.

    My early responses were very measured and mild compared to some comments that pass for wisdom around here. My later response took longer because someone was basically asking my philosophy on what I think it is more correct politically. Nothing incongruous in the least.

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  94. nancy said on September 4, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    I was going to shut comments for a cool-off period, but you all seem to have found some equilibrium, so the floor remains open. Here’s what I have to say, and I’ll lay off the political posts for a while:

    I hear a lot of crowing on the right wing about “fear” today, that Sarah Palin represents Democrats’ worst nightmare, blah blah blah. Maybe that’s true. I’d identify what I’m feeling now as a mix of anger, dread and fatigue, and fear is certainly a part of the first two. But here it is, in the plainest way I can say it:

    I am not buying what these people are selling.

    I never was much of a customer, but I was always willing to listen, and it worries me now that I no longer am, but there it is. It’s never been clearer to me what the stakes are for this election, and they boil down to four more years of more of the same. More torture, more civil-liberties abuses, more war. (Have you heard? We are all Georgians now.) More Regents University law-school grads vetting attorneys general for loyalty to the Cause. More impunity for Wall Street crooks and thieves to play Las Vegas with mortgage funds. More incompetent boobs promoted in government offices, followed by, “See? Government can’t work.” More culture war, in which we parse who is or isn’t a real American, a good mother, a God-fearing leader, a fetus’ friend or enemy. Disagree, and you’re an elitist. More code words. More purity balls. More hilarious jokes about B. Hussein Obama and his wife, the one who hates whitey and dares to wear sleeveless dresses.

    In the past, I’ve had my differences with these folks, but I never wished them ill. I’m starting to do so. This bothers me.

    I’m real tired of this. I’m just sick to death with it.

    WSJ just put a story up on their main page. Hed: McCain to Vow End of ‘Rancor’ Well, that’ll be a neat trick, after last night.

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  95. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    Gawd, we’re listening to Cindy McCain now and she is really kinda blowing it. My wife is killing me. From her sickbed perch on the couch she keeps making snoring sounds and then inserting comments to cut the speech short like: “And now, without further ado. John McCain!”

    But no, Cindy will not stop. She keeps going and going and going.

    Whoops finally.

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  96. basset said on September 4, 2008 at 9:56 pm

    culture war, exactly.

    deliberately changing the topic… Nance, how’d you like that last Gibson novel? me, I was a huge fan of his early stuff but I just didn’t get this one.

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  97. Linda said on September 4, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    Danny, the reason that this nomination made so many people mad was because it was crass pandering. I did political canvassing two days after, and people rolled their eyes, especially women. There are lots of women with more experience than she has (Kay Bailey Hutchison, anyone?) that could have been picked. The rollout was ludicrous, too. Somebody has foreign policy experience because their state is next to Russia? I salute anybody who can say that with a straight face. I, too, wish there was more focus on her political positions, too. I can’t wait to hear what the average woman–who she is supposed to win over–would say when they found out that if her daughter were raped, she would want her to bear her rapist’s child. Believe me, that would peel off a lot of votes right there. The attempts at book banning, and demand of mass resignations upon mayoral election, is disturbing, too. We have enough theocratic and power-hungry people in office. And as the “maverick” and “outsider” opposed to federal earmarks? She got over $27 million in earmarks for a town of about 6,000. Trust me when I tell you that this doesn’t happen for mavericks, but only the well-connected. She is as genuine as a three dollar bill.

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  98. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Two funny comments I read/heard today.

    1) Scout calling Sarah Palin, Caribou Barbie (with attribution).

    2) Someone on the radio said that probably the only way that the pregnancy of Bristol Palin could’ve been kept secret is if it had been John Edwards’ baby. Then the press would have sat on it for months.

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  99. alex said on September 4, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    Troll. Chicken lawyer.

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  100. alex said on September 4, 2008 at 10:46 pm

    “We’ve gotta stop sending $700 billion a year to countries that don’t like us very much…”

    Did he mean Iraq?

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  101. alex said on September 4, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    Well, at least he made a call to end partisan rancor. It received lukewarm applause.

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  102. beb said on September 4, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    Also related to changing the subject…

    The release of Google’s browser, Chrome, brings up the question of just how much does Google know about us netizans. With Chrome they will surely be tracking all the sites we visit, all our search queries, index our e-mails.. Etc. Will Google know more about us than the Department of Vaterland Securities.

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  103. alex said on September 4, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    That liberal media.

    They keep panning to a sign that says “Mavrick” and a woman with a grotesque collagen job in a bad color.

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  104. Danny said on September 4, 2008 at 11:47 pm

    Troll. Chicken lawyer

    Huhn? What does that mean?

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  105. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 5, 2008 at 12:02 am

    Firefox. I vote for Firefox — who’s with me!

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  106. MichaelG said on September 5, 2008 at 12:11 am

    More to the point what does ” the only way that the pregnancy of Bristol Palin could’ve been kept secret is if it had been John Edwards’ baby. Then the press would have sat on it for months” mean?

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  107. Gasman said on September 5, 2008 at 12:35 am

    Thank you for your 6:35 post. That is music to my ears – or should it be eyes? You clearly articulated your positions and I respect them. I don’t necessarily agree with them, but there is probably some middle ground on at least one point. I won’t launch into any diatribes (for once) regarding my liberal views on your opinions, but I come by them honestly and also from a Christian perspective. If your compatriots on your side of the aisle would simply do as you did, they’d be more likely to get folks on my side of the aisle to listen. I honestly try to address issues and not resort to invectives. If I have transgressed and appeared to be uncivil, please accept my apology.

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  108. caliban said on September 5, 2008 at 12:54 am

    How does getting your ass shot down He clawed his way out of his Keating ignominy and he did it over Kerry’s back make you a war hero? Waht make’s McCains story more conpelling and more credigle than Kerry’s And diddn’t mcCain jap on Kerry, whose investigative excellence expose Republicans as creeps that would do anything and debigrate any war heros actions if they thought it might mean some genefit with a moronic electoratee? What a hero. Why the hell doesn’t he just shut up? He betrayed Kerry, when Kerry exposed corruption. He’s not a hero.

    He clawed his way to respectability, he did it on Kerry’s back, and he stabbed Kerry in the back by not repudiating the Swift Boat liars when he knew they were lying thehit asses off. Kerry exposed Republicans as frauds and murderers, so they hated him and sank to previous levels of abject character assassination.

    Even so, they still had to cheat at the ballot box, and if you don’t think Ohio was roffed in 2004, well you’re an idiot.

    Now things are all good? Cheney is so rich he could fuck up American politics for years to come if somebody doesn’t put his profiteering ass in jail. Far as profiteering, there’s that Alaska pipeline. and that was a bigger earmark than the Bridge that Sarah thought was hunky dory until it was ridiculed and she doled out the cash. These people are the biggest liars in history.

    I’m a Catholic and I can honestly say we would have spent the money to better effect for more poor people. Actually, in the last and the first part of the new Centuries, Catholics got killed by American conservatives and their Central American sssurrogates trying to get social justice for oppressed people. In the aftermath of Raygunism, the Jebbies and the Maryknoll nuns seemed to be Commonists that needed raping and slaughtering, and mass graves.

    This is the sort of foriegn policy Neocon goverment supports, so respect for lige and parading Terry Schiavvo is’n’t surprising.

    These bastards are shameless and you can’t underestimate the stupidity of Anericans. Saudis blew up the WTC, you idiots. This was made up shit. Oeople in America believe Saddam was connected with th attack. This is insne.

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  109. Danny said on September 5, 2008 at 12:55 am

    Thanks, Gas.

    Michael, the punchline to that joke that I heard on the radio was because a story came out last week that the press had kept under wraps the story of John Edwards’ affair (and possible child) with that woman for about six months. The Enquirer, paragon of truth that it is (not), had been reporting the story for over a year, but no one else was reporting anything.

    And I still have no idea what Alex’s post meant. Anyone?

    Jeff. Firefox users unite! Yes we can!

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  110. moe99 said on September 5, 2008 at 1:01 am

    Watched the first episode of Torchwood after fixing dinner for me and my daughter, who came to visit. Much better use of my time than observing the RNC

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  111. Danny said on September 5, 2008 at 1:03 am

    We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold…

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  112. nancy said on September 5, 2008 at 1:09 am

    Liked the William Gibson, Basset, but can’t quite say why. I loved his early stuff but we broke up somewhere around “The Difference Engine.” “Spook Country” was supposed to be a continuation of the previous book, but I didn’t miss the lack of background.

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  113. Dexter said on September 5, 2008 at 1:34 am

    So late to the party…my computer crashed after a power outage and I had to go back to factory settings and all that malarkey…I watched all these speeches ; Palin was despicable with her sassy put-downs of Biden & Obama, and the cheers she got when she made her call for more torture were horrible, but we surely do know where the hearts of the repuggs lie.
    Cindy McCain had nothing of worth to comment on but she looked like a cross between Marilyn Monroe and Jennifer Granholm instead of a witch like she usually resembles.
    McCain was trying to avoid mentioning Bush but he did give Bush41 props. Hey McCain? Wasteful spending? How about ten billion dollars a month down a rathole you support?

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  114. caliban said on September 5, 2008 at 5:11 am

    She’s affiliated with the Assembly of God. She’s affiliated with nutcases connected to secessionist bastards thad think Tim McVeigh is a martyr. She spoke at their convention in this year. She ought to be on a no fly list because of her associations. Why isn’t she?

    No shit, she looks a whole lot more like Tonya Harding than some terris. I sppose.But who actually looks like a terriss and how does that protect anybody.

    I took a flight that waited forever, recently. It couldn’t be me. I’ve got blond hair and very blue eyes. My favorite thing about my own appearance is that my eyes are a near purple blue that is a lot like Lix Taylor’s. Shouldn’t I have been a suspect?

    When these scurrilous assholes mounted their assalt on the Cibstutution, they called it degending the Honeland. I’be alwys thought they favored Stalinism, buy its pretty amazing they didn’t go straight for Vaterland. Aren’t you scared? Wow. The huns are t the door. Actually, they’re in Pakistan but the midget that declared mission accomplished with that sock stuffed in hisflightsuit said “I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care.” So why is the country acting like bunch of pussies and cowering when these assholes manipulate the Terr rating. Lipstick Pitbull is holding down the Russian front on the Berring Strait, so what is there to worry about”

    Morons voting? Well, there’s that. Does it dawn on anybody the Republican speechwriters added a single line to a speech they already wrote for Mitt? Or that this bimbette trailer trash
    believes creationism should be taught in schools, along with tellin teenagers just say no to sex. Anybody ever been a teenager? Even Murricans are not that fucking stupid. What were the books this idiotthought should be remkoved from the Public Libraries?

    If John McCain is a war hero and a mavericck, how;d he let Kerry take the heat on BCCI, Iran Contra. for which Republicans hated him so much personally they brought back ghosts of Nixon past to make up lies. Where was McCain then? He knew swigtboat was pure bullshit. He knew for a fact W went awol. Where was Mr. Straight Talk?

    McCain latched on toKerry to pull his sorry ass out of the moral morrass of Keating Five when he was in it up to his neck, for cash. The facr that this political phony just stood by and let Cheney and Rummy get away with every heinous act Kerry proved against then, and let Regan skate, maverick? Bo along to get along until you can put your trophy wife;s cashinto play, and bail on Kerry like HW bailing out of that bomber. Abd don’t stand by your pal that saved your asswhen the slime machine goes to work.

    Aside from anything else, how the hell did anybody buy that Jerome Corsi bullshit about what Kerry did in Viet Nam, and, with no doubt, in Laos.Assholes went to the Republican Convention with purple bandaids.

    Were any of them ever there? No. A theory. These assholes so wanted to love the little pretzeldent, they had to believe Kerry was fraudulent. For purposes of their own belieg in their pindick manhood, they had to believe this big guy didn’ perform acts of heroism. Clearly, he did. He doesn’t seem proud and doesn’t like to talk about it.

    What W did: He went to Texas. He parited. Tjey were going to kick his ass out of Texas, so he webt to Alabama, where he never showed up. He collected a check and partied some more. Kerry ran a Swift River Boat. We was engaged in numeous firefights. In one of the firefights he pulled a mate to safety after charging the enemy to provide cover. This account is from the guy Kerry saved. Republicans say Kerry somehow staged this to win a Purple eart so he could use it in 2004 to try to get elected President. Republicans weren’t there. Guy Kerry saved was. Americans believed Republicans that this was all staged. W served, Kerry didn’t

    What is wrong with American voters? This is mind-boggling. Kerry could have been out of this but chode to go. W weaseled his way into guarding the Mexican border and the liqupr supply at the OClub. Kerry could have done his time. So could W, I guess. Kerry took lives nd sved lives. W cranked and whined.

    Kerry decided the war was bullshit. W decided this whole thing s burden and he could pary harder if they’d float his ass to Birmingham. Where he just blew off the guard, because the coke would prevent him from getting in a plane.

    Kerry had the brains to know the war was Nixon bullshit, and he tossed the medals. He also decided he’d ry to make sure nobody else died for nothing. W Kept going to bats and getting coked up because he knew if somebody else was etting killed, at least it wasn’t h

    Twent years later, or so.

    Am election. And people sort of decide but the gix is most certainly in in Cuyahoga County. B;ackwell’s got tjhs nailed for serious bucks

    So idiots think W is the war hero and some scumbags makr it out like the real hero made it up.

    And people are fucking idiodts

    It’s temptied to say “What fools these mortals be”.

    But given four years of hindsight, and to this day I think the shitheels stole the election, and I’m sure Diebold is criminal in the actuality.

    But fuck. How does the so-called and self-proclaimed greatest nation in the world end up with Tonya Harding running for Vice President abainst Joe Biden. We are supposed to forget McCain is a whacko jerk devoid of principles. he wouldn’t shitcan at a momemts notice if it served his bizarre hunger. You see this asshhole’s face? Fee Fi Fo Fum. Assholes an ogre.

    What I really think about McCain. I live in South Carolina. Back in 2000, I got push poll calls from the bushes about McCain’s illegitemate black kid. Kinda disturbing but Rove? Not human. But how in the world do you vote all of the time that is wrong on every issue, and suck up to him wheen he’s gone all Willie Horton on you?

    All’s forgiven? Maybe if you’ve got some overweening, obscene ambition to command the miliatry like your dad never did, McCain makes sense. This ahole wants to blow up the world ober Souyt Ossettia. He’s nuts, amd a paroxysm makes a bimbette that believes Creatiunismand abstinence should be taught in school as facts.

    These are not rational people.

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  115. Connie said on September 5, 2008 at 6:59 am

    Gibson says he no longer writes science fiction, that technology has changed the world so much since he began writing, that now he considers his work just plain fiction. Paraphrased from memory.

    No citation, don’t remember where I read it, bad librarian, bad!

    And did not get through his latest. Gave it up at the midway point.

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  116. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 5, 2008 at 7:19 am

    Left Gibson for Tim Powers, but i couldn’t get through his last one except by main force and mechanical page turning. Great set-ups, memorable openings, but rushed, churning endings.

    Richard Russo is the one living writer who has never disappointed me (well, maybe a chapter here or there, more like a page or two), and the world must make a movie out of “Straight Man.” Ideally starring Alan Alda.

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  117. Laura said on September 5, 2008 at 8:47 am

    I’ve been trying to keep up here, and I have two questions. First, where do you all find time to write these epic posts? It’s hard enough for me read them all (and occasionally write a few ill-formed sentences), let alone write thesis-sized retorts. Second, why all the vitriol (and I’m talking to both sides of the nnc debate)? I understand those who show passion for their side, but I don’t get the cheap shots at all. I’m a big lefty and proud of it. But I don’t hate McCain. I find it sad that he’s made so many compromises w/the GOP and has found a VP who is not qualified. But name calling diminishes the argument. Let’s keep it cerebral, folks.

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  118. Laura said on September 5, 2008 at 8:49 am

    By the way, my longest post ever (applause, please).

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  119. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 5, 2008 at 8:57 am

    What, Russo’s not cerebral? 😉

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  120. brian stouder said on September 5, 2008 at 9:26 am

    Laura – Bravo!


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  121. Dorothy said on September 5, 2008 at 9:28 am

    Laura beat me to it. She captured much of what I was thinking. It’s been bugging me since last night, reading so many of these comments that left me disturbed and just sort of sad. On the way to work this morning I kept thinking of the times we were all worried about Danny and LAMary out on the West Coast with all the wildfires. I know we can agree to disagree, but sometimes the comments got out of line. Here’s hoping we can all keep level heads between now and November 4th. And of course, there after, whatever the election results.

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  122. WhiteBeard said on September 5, 2008 at 10:00 am

    I agree with Laura on a need for civility. My Canadian vote does not count for much so I am trying to stay out of the political arena although the secessionist talk interests me. I can remember back when there was talk of the Upper Penninsula seceding from the United States until the then-bridge to nowhere (also known as the Mackinac Bridge) was built.

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  123. Scout said on September 5, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    Jeff… I love Russo. Look! We agree on something! 🙂 A kumbaya moment.

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  124. basset said on September 5, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    “Difference Engine” was about where I started losing interest in Gibson, too, and Bruce Sterling along with him. That whole Victorian trip that science fiction got into for awhile just doesn’t interest me.

    Worst example I’ve seen, though, of an author going from totally fascinating to why-am-I-even-trying-to-read-this is Neal Stephenson. “Snow Crash” was bloody brilliant, “Necronomicon” or whatever he called it I couldn’t get hold of at all. I got as far as the mathematical formulas, closed the cover, and didn’t go back… trying to deal with math has caused me enough pain and frustration in real life that I just refuse to be around it in recreational reading.

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