A little history.

The ancestral home of NN.C, before there was a .C. South side of the Lou, in a neighborhood turning Bosnian around the edges.

Posted at 3:46 pm in iPhone |

32 responses to “A little history.”

  1. James said on September 20, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    So, where the heck is that? Somewhere in Columbus?

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  2. nancy said on September 20, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    the Lou: St. Louis. At least, that’s what Nelly says.

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  3. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 20, 2008 at 4:30 pm

    Bosnians? Rakia and cevapi for dinner, opa!

    Was this ever a good day for a long hike and a few hours teaching kids how to make flint projectile points . . . hey, i just realized i do have a barterable skill, if we revert far enough.

    Gotta make something for dinner, but i’ll come down decisively in the middle on natural law — i’ve had two different Catholic bishops try to explain it to me, but i’m still thinking it’s a category more for theology than jurisprudence. As a conservative, i worry (cautiously) about fiddling with the definition of marriage out of common law, but as a pragmatist i’ll note that cultural conservatives have not managed the practice of marriage very well, leaving the door open to saying “why not adjust the definition and try a new tack?”

    And as i’ve said here before, i think the historic overlap between church and civic definitions of marriage will lead to a hesitation on re-defining “marriage,” and a re-definition of the public/civic aspect of family & unions of persons as a purely contractual one.

    Then different faith traditions can discuss natural law to their heart’s content as they each decide how they want to seal or solemnize or ratify various couples who come already “united” by civil union at the courthouse or registrar’s office.

    Ten years, tops (except Utah, maybe a couple other states).

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  4. Deborah said on September 20, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    What neighborhood is this in south St. Louis? Is it around Tower Grove Park? Soulard? Sort of looks like either of those areas but hard to tell in isolation.

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  5. nancy said on September 20, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    Don’t know what neighborhood it is, but it sure ain’t Soulard. Very un-chic and still as working-class as it was when we lived there (although a lot more African-American). It’s 3610 Neosho Street, if you know your STL well enough to tell from an address.

    Anyway, this was my parents’ apartment, the place they brought me home to from Lutheran Hospital. So I guess it’s my first home.

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  6. Dexter said on September 21, 2008 at 12:12 am

    Well, I just Google-mapped my first home, and I’ll be damned if it doesn’t look like it’s been levelled …just scraped flat. I already knew our second house had been torn down thirty years ago, but the third and fourth places are still standing.
    “In our news culture, Behar, a stand-up comic by profession, looms as the new Edward R. Murrow. “—Frank Rich in today’s Times, on Joy Behar’s tough stance on the McCains a few days ago….

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  7. John said on September 21, 2008 at 7:20 am

    Looks like the abode of an elitist!

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  8. Suzi said on September 21, 2008 at 9:07 am

    What’s more natural than being born gay/lesbian?

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  9. coozledad said on September 21, 2008 at 9:50 am

    Suzi: They just need someone to hate, or at the very least, something to define themselves against. Used to be the blacks, the Jews, etc. If you’re going to play the rubes for what little they’re worth, you’ve got to have a rallying point. A bullseye for people who have no moral center. It gives them a kind of deadly focus.

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  10. Jolene said on September 21, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Good morning, everyone: Thought you might like to read this interesting editorial by Sebastian Mallaby re the potential bailout legislation, which he criticizes harshly. The piece is more comprehensible than a lot of what I’ve been reading, and the alternatives he proposes make a lot of sense.

    Am thinking about whether to call my Congresspeople and ask them to think things through before signing on to the Paulson plan. Not that I don’t think Paulson is acting in good faith. Just think it’s worth considering what’s going to happening next.

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  11. coozledad said on September 21, 2008 at 11:47 am

    Paulson and Bush are seeking to indemnify the CEO’s of Mortgage Corporations against shareholders, buy Bush a few more weeks before the shit really hits the fan, and protect everyone who is involved in making this plan from the courts.
    Just more open theft brought to you by the people who inherited a budget surplus.
    It’s pitchfork time.

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  12. brian stouder said on September 21, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    I bet that hill in the front yard was fun to play on; but it would drive me crazy (yes, a short drive) if the kids were liable to tumbling into the street (or off the balcony!) at any moment!

    Say – we addressed the question “How many houses do the presidential candidates own?”, and we neglected the classic Detroit question: “How many cars do the presidential candidates own?”


    an excerpt:

    based on public vehicle-registration records, here’s the score. John and Cindy McCain: 13. Barack and Michelle Obama: one.

    Pam and I have twice as many as the Obamas!

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  13. moe99 said on September 21, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    How John McCain Lost Me

    Elizabeth Drew

    “I had already concluded that that there was a disturbingly erratic side of McCain’s nature. There’s a certain lack of seriousness in him. And he does not appear to be a reflective man, or very interested in domestic issues. One cannot imagine him ruminating late into the night about, say, how to educate and train Americans for the new global and technological challenges.

    McCain’s making a big issue of “earmarks” and citing entertaining examples of ridiculous-sounding ones, circumvents discussion of the larger issues of the allocation of funds in the federal budget: according to the Office of Management and Budget, earmarks represent less than one percent of federal spending.

    Now he’s back to declaring himself a maverick, but it’s not clear what that means. If he gains the presidency, is he going to rebel against the base he’s now depending on to get him elected? (Hence his selection of running mate Sarah Palin.) Campaigns matter. If he means “shaking up the system” (which is not the same thing), opposing earmarks doesn’t cut it.

    McCain’s recent conduct of his campaign – his willingness to lie repeatedly (including in his acceptance speech) and to play Russian roulette with the vice-presidency, in order to fulfill his long-held ambition – has reinforced my earlier, and growing, sense that John McCain is not a principled man.
    In fact, it’s not clear who he is.”


    Elizabeth Drew is not a casual McCain fan or a Democrat masquerading as a supporter — she is the author of “Citizen McCain,” a highly laudatory 2002 biography of McCain described by the National Review as “hagiographic.”

    Watch this video on McCain’s physical condition and failure to release his medical records:


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  14. bryan said on September 21, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    You’re making me homesick. I spent a lot of time in the South Grand neighborhood when I was in just out of college because a good friend lived there. It looked much the same then, too.

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  15. Deborah said on September 21, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    Yep, that’s the South Grand neighborhood. I never thought of Soulard as being hoity toity though. I guess now that the new “Busch” stadium has been all redone (designed by the architecture firm my husband and I worked for when we lived there, but that happened pretty much after we left), nearby Soulard has had a rebirth. My husband was the design principal for the Rams dome in St. Louis, but it was designed before they had a team. My husband, not a sports fan, shook hands with Walter Payton at design meetings and didn’t even know who he was. He just knew he had a mighty handshake. Payton was for some reason instrumental in the deal. Now that we live in Chicago we have heard many great stories about Sweetness, the name for Payton, because he was such a great caring guy.

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  16. jcburns said on September 21, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    Looks a lot like the West Fifth Avenue duplex-like thing I was brought home to (right next to the cool old Sohio station on 5th and Northwest.) Those who know Ms. NN.C’s history also know this was just around the corner from her swingin’ bachelorette apartment..one of them.

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  17. beb said on September 21, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    The thing about Natural Law is that it sounds like but isn’t Common, the cumulation of ideas, thoughts, practices and principles that have evolved over the past 1500 years ofBritish civilization. In fact I don’t recall hearing about Natural Law until at most ten years ago. Natural Law seems to means whatever its proponant intends, which means it’s not a thought out or consistent philosophy.

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  18. Dexter said on September 21, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    Deborah: Ol’ # 34 , Sweetness, is spinnin’ in his grave, the way Da Bears lost today to Tampa Bay and their old quarterback, Brian Griese. Payton was stricken and quickly taken nine years ago…from Wiki: “After struggling with the rare liver disease, primary sclerosing cholangitis, for several months, Payton died on November 1, 1999.”
    I am not a Bears fan, but they were on TV where I lived as kid, and I watched Gayle Sayers score six touchdowns in a game in 1966; I watched it on an old Motorola black and white TV but the memories are in color.
    My beloved (choke choke cough) Detroit Lions are getting killed again, today by the lowly San Francisco 49ers.
    As my late dad would say, “…those guys couldn’t lick a postage stamp!”
    In baseball, Yankee Stadium shuts down forever tonight, but it’s a lukewarm farewell, as they destroyed the real, old Yankee Stadium in 1973 and rebuilt it in 1974 & 1975 .
    Still, for a generation , the new-old Yankee Stadium holds a lot of memories, and now it gets the wrecking ball after the last out tonight. I saw exactly one game there, in 1985.
    Of the new Yankee Stadium, it is said that it shall be the best stadium in the land. I cannot begin to imagine what tickets will be costing.

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  19. Jolene said on September 21, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    Dexter, Bill Moyers, of all people, was talking about the cost of tickets at the new stadium in his show on Friday evening. I think he said the lowest price tickets would be $45. Also said that they had reduced the number of low-price seats by 5000. As you might guess, this came at the end of a discussion of the week’s events in the market and was part of a general objection to plutocracy.

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  20. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 21, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    Full disclosure — one of my two current contracts is with our county MR/DD board (mental retardation and developmental disability), so i have a dog, or pig, in this particular toss-up, if not my own child . . . No one, and I mean no one could have seen the following kind of reaction to the national presence of Sarah Palin on the political scene. Sure, she was tapped to mobilize “the base” in some ways, but not even the evil all-seeing eye of Karl Rove could have seen this kind of stuff coming —



    I guess this kind of thinking has been out there all along, and I’d just missed it, but it is chilling, and bracing, to see how unambiguous the amoral, hedonic, eugenic position is willing to be in public. Is this the majority view? We’ll see, I guess. The tragedy is that I strongly doubt Obama is of this ilk, but he’s going to be painted with this brush as it apparently is part of his party’s core constituency. I don’t like Republican profit mongering greedheads, truly i don’t, but i’d rather try to reason with them towards some kind of compassion than try to figure out how to dialogue with these two and their kin.

    I know some of y’all think the pro-life crowd is just a bunch of pliable dullards led around by the nose every four years by national pols who could care less about local crisis pregnancy centers, and the latter point may be true, but read these two candid posts and see why that “base” continues to think they have a reason to care about national candidates.

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  21. alex said on September 21, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    Well, Jeff, she certainly does go too tastelessly far with that “worship of retardation” stuff. She should have just made the perfectly valid point that Republican politicians treat everyone like they’re retarded, and some cotton to it.

    Natural law = the argument of last resort when “because God says so” won’t do.

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  22. moe99 said on September 21, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    Strawman argument, Jeff. I would expect better from you.

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  23. brian stouder said on September 21, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    I guess this kind of thinking has been out there all along, and I’d just missed it, but it is chilling, and bracing, to see how unambiguous the amoral, hedonic, eugenic position is willing to be in public.

    horse feathers, Jeff.

    Holding bloggers like that up as exemplars of just why Sarah Palin is so indispensible to America’s moral future (or, as examples of serious defects in the morality of the people who don’t like Goveror Palin) makes about as much sense as pointing to sites like these as examples of just why Barack Obama is so indispensible to our moral future



    Clicking into there, we come up with this bit of social wisdom, regarding how an enlightened society would deal with “the least of these”:

    Mabye if they would get off their asses, get a job, and stop living on welfare, they wouldn’t be poor.

    C’mon, Jeff; I won’t say that people who choose to support the dishonest old undead man actually want to throw all the poor people onto the mercies and limited resources of private charities and ‘community organizers’ such as you, if you will stop trying to impute the darkest sort of void upon the souls of those of us who choose to support the lanky guy from Illinois. (otherwise, you might want to rethink your “mild mannered” modifier; more like “malevolent”, really)

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  24. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 21, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    Malevolent? really?

    Mind you, i only added “mild-mannered” during the Goeglein affair when a couple other Jeffs jumped aboard, rather agitated on behalf of the poor dear plagiarizer. I’m more than willing to drop it, but not because folks want to attribute to me a desire to hold onto the pluriform civil powers of ordained tools of the state, or a passionate intent to make women bear the fetuses of my choice.

    I’m just pointing out why the “base” is the base. Sorry to interrupt the coronation of the One True Bearer of Truth with a few news bulletins from the Land o’ On-‘Tother-Hand. Nothing i posted implies Obama supporters are all of this ilk, but these are the statements that make Palin supporters all the more committed, just as Brian’s notes (which i appreciate as informative & illustrative) support why some middle of the roaders are leaning Obama-wards. Fair enough — no need to attribute malevolence to either side, but those are the end zone markers that limn the field of play.

    Alex, i largely agree with your take on “natural law.” Thanks for your graciousness under pressure (see Hemingway for full ref’n).

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  25. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on September 21, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    Moe, i’d love to be convinced that those are strawmen. Truly. Light them up for me and i’ll join you in toasting marshmallows over them, but they seem to have a bit more heft to them than chaff and tare.

    [Is anyone else watching “Feasting on Waves”? I should refocus on my lobster cooking technique, using number 10 tin cans and mega doses of garlic.]

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  26. moe99 said on September 21, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    Jeff, there’s no convincing those who are happy in their current state, as you are. Don’t ply us with false desires.

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  27. Catherine said on September 21, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    Tell you what, Jeff, I won’t call you a “pliable dullard,” if you won’t call my position in support of a woman’s RIGHT to choose (as distinct from support for abortion) “amoral, hedonic and eugenic.”

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  28. Jolene said on September 22, 2008 at 12:03 am

    Jeff, you say: Light them up for me and i’ll join you in toasting marshmallows over them, but they seem to have a bit more heft to them than chaff and tare.

    What makes you think they have any heft at all? And what makes you think these blogs have any connection to Obama, even in the limited sense that the writers support his candidacy? There’s no mention of him in either of the posts you link to.

    As to the question of heft, if I understand Technorati correctly, there are almost 53,000 blogs that are more popular than Noodlefood. For the other one, there are almost 60,000 more popular blogs. These are hardly indicators of global reach.

    As to their ideological stance, these blogs advocate objectivism, i.e., the radically individualist philosophy of Ayn Rand. The idea that these folks would be linked to a “big-government liberal” like Obama (as opposed to the big-government conservative we have now) doesn’t fly.

    So, yes, these are repugnant posts, but, if you stick around long enough, it seems that you can find more or less anything on the Internet. But it’s not a good idea to draw unjustified inferences about the relationship of those ideas to people who’ve had nothing to do with the posting and have said nothing similar in any public context.

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  29. moe99 said on September 22, 2008 at 12:53 am

    Jolene and Catherine,

    I am honored to be in your presence. Thank you.

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  30. Dexter said on September 22, 2008 at 1:19 am

    YEA !!! from the Times: “Bryan Cranston won best actor in a drama series for his portrayal of Walt White on “Breaking Bad,” another first-year drama on AMC, which broadcast only seven episodes in its first year.”

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  31. John said on September 22, 2008 at 7:56 am


    Someone needs to start doing better if she ever expects to retire from the Google-cents trickling in here.

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  32. Jolene said on September 22, 2008 at 9:22 am

    But, John, if the ranking were higher, we wouldn’t be able to tell ourselves that we’re members of an exclusive club.

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