Call me heartless and quick to jump to conclusions, but here goes: I’ll put money down that the GOP has found its own Tawana Brawley in Ashley Todd, who claims the following:
That she stopped at a Pittsburgh ATM late Tuesday night, where a dark-skinned man standing six-feet-four robbed her and then, upon seeing the McCain sticker on her car, returned to beat her in the face and then carve the letter B upon her cheek. Here’s the photographic evidence of the crime:
That’s the short version. Among the oddities connected to the case: A Twitter feed in which young Ashley noted, “Stubbornly searching for a bank of america to avoid ATM fees,” and then, “Pretty sure I’m on the wrong side of pittsburgh,” followed a bit later by, “Oh the blog I will be making soon…Its been a rough night.” (I know when I’m looking for an ATM late at night, I also pull over a time or two to send a tweet into the ether, too.) There’s the fact she refused medical assistance, and that the Pittsburgh police want her to take a polygraph. And then there’s the photo, which has its own problems. The B is backward. The “black eye” looks less like a real black eye — which, if you’ve ever gotten one, you know to be more in the purplish range than this, which looks, quite frankly, like me after I’ve had a couple glasses of wine and tried to rock that “smoky eye” thing they’re always doing on the beauty shows. I also like how her mascara seems to have survived the attack, which must have been terrifying and wrung at least a few tears from such a tender soul. Give that girl an endorsement contract.
And then there’s the carving. “Carve” seems to be the term all the stories and bloggers have agreed on, although the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review (yes, the Scaife paper) is going for “etched.” Carve implies that skin was broken. This girl was scratched, not carved. And why a B? Didn’t the mugger get the memo? Message discipline requires that we settle on a single letter to describe our savior, and that letter is O. Everyone knows this.
Also, Ashley works for the College Republicans. Click this link, cntrl-F “boen” and see where they touched down in Fort Wayne. So sorry, Ashley — I may eat my words, but I bet I won’t. Hope that couple of hours at the top of the Drudge Report was worth it.
The end of boating season is at hand. I’m off to help pull “Lush Life” from the water. Back later, if I’m not divorced.
James said on October 24, 2008 at 9:55 am
The “B” stands for “bullshit,” “bogus,” or maybe, “batshit insane.”
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michaela said on October 24, 2008 at 9:56 am
I like the last line of the news story, wherein the cops say, “We are treating this as a credible report.”
Says so much without saying a word, ya know?
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brian stouder said on October 24, 2008 at 9:57 am
Hell – she’d a been way more credible with your Zombie makeup; she just doesn’t look that bad.
Plus – doesn’t practically every atm have one of those one-frame-per-second cameras anymore? Plus – why are we supposed to believe that a robber cares one whit about the election – or cares enough to actually prolong his exposure to capture, or risking needless injury (or death), by re-attacking a person when he already has the stolen money?
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garmoore said on October 24, 2008 at 10:02 am
ATMs have cameras with them that I think run 24/7. Has anyone looked at the video from the ATM where this occurred? I’m guessing that the police have looked and found nothing, and that, combined with the “this doesn’t add up” nature of the facts, makes them want her to take the polygraph exam.
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coozledad said on October 24, 2008 at 10:31 am
Goddamn. Just turning the engine over these days is the rough equivalent of an ATM fee.
I will laugh about this all day. Thanks Nancy.
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mark said on October 24, 2008 at 10:33 am
Probably a very good call on your part. However, for the Tawana analogy to be complete we still need a Sharpton like character to champion her cause, drawing large conclusions from a non-event, and a media willing to withhold judgment and inquiry while the story builds.
Looks to me like this little girls few minutes of fame are about over.
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Connie said on October 24, 2008 at 10:41 am
Mark, all the right wing blogs have jumped all over this story. I’ve not yet figured out how this was all Obama’s fault.
My kid at the Obama rally
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John said on October 24, 2008 at 10:48 am
Not to drag up the past, but wasn’t there a backwards word or letters on Tawana’s person when she was found? I looked unsuccessfully for the photographs and my memory is vague about it. I was reading the NY Daily News and NY Post (purely for the entertainment value) back then and remember some images of her with the writing on her face or body.
Mark is right about the charlatans jumping on the bandwagon. Mason, Maddox, and Sharpton were the harpies feeding on this frenzy.
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Connie said on October 24, 2008 at 10:52 am
My last post got put in moderation because it had more than one link. So here is the second link, moved in hopes to get the other one up and out.
Opie and Richie Cunningham and Fonzie endorse Obama
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Hooiser said on October 24, 2008 at 10:59 am
And that B is backwards; like made while looking in a mirror. And look at the size of those pupils! Maybe a little high on something?
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Snarkworth said on October 24, 2008 at 11:01 am
And let us not forget the Princeton episode in which a conservative student claimed he was set upon by thugs and whacked with an Orangina bottle:
‘The embarrassing episode for the conservative leaders began last week when Francisco Nava, a junior at Princeton, appeared at a hospital with cuts and bruises covering his face. He claimed that two unidentified men repeatedly bashed his head against a brick wall, shouting to “shut the fuck up.” ‘
http:www.thenation.com/doc/20071231/blumenthal+college+republican
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Dwight said on October 24, 2008 at 11:04 am
Yep. This stinks to high heaven.
So did the story about the guy in Britain who was dead certain he got pinged with a BB gun for wearing an Obama T-shirt.
All and all, just an escalation of the new political maxim from both sides: “Fling all the poo you can and see what sticks.”
Much MUCH improved from that stupid, stodgy, old-fashioned practice of “Proselytize your values as if they were a better idea than the values of your opponent.”
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Dwight said on October 24, 2008 at 11:10 am
BTW, the B isn’t backwards. It’s upside down.
Which poses a whole ‘nother set of logic issues. The attacker was… What? Sitting above her head… presumably on her upstretched arms/hands? And a woman… a WOMAN (sorry, but it’s true) just laid there and let her face be disfigured with precision by somebody sitting on her upstretched arms?
Mmmm. No.
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Jolene said on October 24, 2008 at 11:24 am
The Post-Gazette already has a story pointing out “inconsistencies” in her story, but they were scooped by TMZ, who had it last night.
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LA Mary said on October 24, 2008 at 11:36 am
Did anyone hear the discussion on NPR this morning about race in this election? It was a group of folks of different races who has met with two NPR reporters more than once during this election. What was really interesting to me was that every one of them identified “Joe SixPack” as a white character. When they visualized this guy SP keeps talking about, they saw a white working class guy.
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Hooiser said on October 24, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Back to Ms. Todd. Latest news is ATM camera doesn’t show her any where near!
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Gasman said on October 24, 2008 at 1:09 pm
mark,
Does Matt Drudge’s hyping the “assault” on Todd count as being equivocal to Sharpton’s support for Brawley? How about Truecrimereport.com’s reporting that McCain and Palin called Ms. Todd, presumably to offer support to a fellow ideological warrior?
This is just the latest addition to the growing list of deceptive ploys that Republicans at all levels seem to be compelled to employ as they cannot sway voters on issues alone. I do not hold the McCain/Palin campaign responsible for orchestrating Ms. Todd’s ham-fisted bungling of a staged crime. However, I do hold them accountable for creating an atmosphere that has fostered and promoted ignorance, fear, and an increasingly insidious racial subtext that rewards open hostility towards Obama, liberals, and Democrats. The McCain/Palin rallies have devolved into a theater of the absurd which seem to attract the most bigoted, narrow minded xenophobes that until now have lurked in darker recesses of the Republican Party. Now, McCain/Palin have called these disaffected losers to center stage and made them the poster children of their campaign.
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brian stouder said on October 24, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Did anyone hear the discussion on NPR this morning about race in this election?
You know, I think a smart essayist – writing a retrospective about this barn-burner ’08 national election – will focus on the generational shift that it represents. Certainly, the historical nature of the role race is playing casts a shadow (so to speak) on all else….but I feel I (for one) have a lot more in common with the thoughtful, good natured 47 year old lanky guy from Illinois, than the cranky, catch-phrase spouting 72 year old from Arizona
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Jeff Borden said on October 24, 2008 at 1:13 pm
As someone who covered the night police beat for three years, I’ve never heard of a mugger who took the time to return to his victim and mark them. Hit `em, yes, if they resisted, scare the hell out of `em, yes, but the whole idea of this kind of theft is snatch and run, get the cash and get gone.
Not to say there aren’t whole bunches of scary people out there capable of all kinds of madness.
But so much about this story reeks. The woman is knocked out and has her face “carved,” but refuses treatment. Christ, she might’ve had a concussion or a fractured skull. The ATM surveillance camera where the attack allegedly occurred shows nothing. There’s a video she made floating around the Internet about a “mean janitor,” who tore down her McCain signs in some lobby, so she’s clearly someone looking to lob grievances at others.
What really bothers me about people like this creep is their casual racism. Of course, the attacker had to be black. Ooooga boooga.
We had a case in suburban Chicago where a sandwich shop employee claimed to have been abducted and assaulted by a Hispanic man. So, the coppers are passing out sketches of this guy for days. All the white folks are looking at their dark-skinned neighbors and co-workers. Fears of immigration are stoked again. And then a few days later the cops say the woman has recanted the story. No attack.
Lots of people read the first day stories on these kinds of claims, but don’t get the follow up that the tales turned out to be untrue. Witness the Drudge Report, which had a three deck headline yesterday, but now the stories about this young lady’s truthfulness are pegged in 12-point type.
I suppose someone who would manufacture a story like this has some mental and/or emotional problems, but it’s a shame the City of Pittsburgh can’t bill her for the time they’re spending going down this rabbit hole.
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Gasman said on October 24, 2008 at 1:45 pm
I know this is off topic, but it ties in with some of yesterday’s (and earlier threads’) comments regarding the seemingly inexplicable WHY of Sarah Palin’s rapid rise among the conservative Republican elite. Kathleen Parker has observed a connection between Palin and middle aged mens’ crotches. It seems that Palin has done more for flaccid middle aged and elderly conservative men than Ann Coulter, Viagra, and Cialis combined:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/23/AR2008102302489.html
“McCain spokesmen have said that he was attracted to Palin’s maverickness, that she reminded him of himself.”
Naw, I just think John McCain let his ‘“little maverick” make the decision to pick Palin as his V.P. Palin makes the dirty old men of the Republican party stand up and take notice, if you know what I mean. Talk about support from party members! These men are just responding to different “pole” numbers, I guess. I’m sorry, but these are just too easy!
Among the older ruling class of Republican men, Palin’s presence or even her image prompts long forgotten and unfamiliar stirrings in their nether regions, and they like it. I said much the same thing in an earlier thread. Not much else explains their idiotic devotion to Palin and the tortured logic used to defend her. Palin makes Bill Kristol’s, et al., loins burn. That’s why she is the new darling of conservatism.
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Jeff Borden said on October 24, 2008 at 1:55 pm
THIS JUST IN. . .ASHLEY TODD IS A #$%$# LIAR
A Pittsburgh police commander told KDKA Investigator Marty Griffin that Ashley Todd confessed to making up the story & is facing charges
PITTSBURGH (KDKA) ― Police sources tell KDKA that a campaign worker has now confessed to making up a story that a mugger attacked her and cut the letter “B” in her face after seeing her McCain bumper sticker.
Ashley Todd, 20, of Texas, initially told police that she was robbed at an ATM in Bloomfield and that the suspect became enraged and started beating her after seeing her GOP sticker on her car.
Police investigating the alleged attack, however, began to notice some inconsistencies in her story and administered a polygraph test.
Authorities, however, declined to release the results of that test.
Investigators did say that they received photos from the ATM machine and “the photographs were verified as not being the victim making the transaction.”
This afternoon, a Pittsburgh police commander told KDKA Investigator Marty Griffin that Todd confessed to making up the story.
The commander added that Todd will face charges; but police have not commented on what those charges will be.
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Peris said on October 24, 2008 at 1:58 pm
The “B” is backward…or just upside-down.
Your money will be safe. There is no swelling in that eye, period. Compared to the other one, at least.
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Hooiser said on October 24, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Go, Gasman, go!
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moe99 said on October 24, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Pat yourself on the back, Nancy, for smelling out the rat in this story.
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Dwight said on October 24, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Go outside and practice falling down, Gasman. You are the very epitome of the venom spewing hatred you claim to detest.
Nice call, Derringer.
I didn’t realize she filed a police report. I thought it was all orchestrated for the media. Throw the effing book at her. Personal responsibility, personal responsibility, personal responsibility.
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Dorothy said on October 24, 2008 at 3:04 pm
From the opening moments of the TODAY show today when I saw the story, I knew it was concocted. She’s a nut case, that girl!
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Rana said on October 24, 2008 at 3:09 pm
I hope she gets psychiatric help – the self-mutilation and what looks like a cry for help/attention suggest that she needs it. What she did was wrong and it makes me angry – yet, at the same time, I cannot help but feel sorry for her as well.
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Gasman said on October 24, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Dwight,
Moi? How so? What have I said that might be deemed “venomous?” What hatred? I don’t believe that I said I hated anyone. As a matter of fact, when I do a search of this thread for “hatred,” only your post matches. I really don’t know what you are referring to.
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Dwight said on October 24, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Oh, what the heck! Let’s do this!
“Does Matt Drudge’s hyping the “assault” on Todd count as being equivocal to Sharpton’s support for Brawley?”
So any news source duped by a false police report equates to complicity? Oh no. Wait. Only Drudge. Okay. Drudge breaks precious little news. He’s a vector, albeit for what amounts to a particular bias in the selection of what gets vectored. Pointing to media coverage of stuff that makes you uncomfortable does not make one a villain.
“McCain and Palin called Ms. Todd, presumably to offer support to a fellow ideological warrior?”
And that “presumption” is all yours, Copernicus. They did it because they pretty much HAD to in order to have the anticipated response to an endless news cycle onslaught. So why did Obama call her? Jesus.
“… [tactics] Republicans at all levels seem to be compelled to employ as they cannot sway voters on issues alone.”
Really? They can’t? Source? Your duodenum? Oh. Okay. thanks. Makes you wonder why they even bother to run a candidate. They could have just checked with you first to get the right values profile.
“I do hold them accountable for creating an atmosphere that has fostered and promoted ignorance, fear, and an increasingly insidious racial subtext that rewards open hostility towards Obama, liberals, and Democrats.”
Uh huh. And that would beeeeee? What, exactly? How do they create this atmosphere? Oh yeah! Sorry. That’s right. They don’t agree with every values issue of the opposition. Well there you go with another stellar leg-lock of logic. Having attended a couple McCain/Pallin Rallies, I forgot the part where the warm up speaker said “Whoooo! Who here hates them some niggas??? Whooooo!” Odd. I was the first one through the gate, three feet from centerstage and I still missed that part.
The patent absurdity of your wishful villification is epic.
“the most bigoted, narrow minded xenophobes that until now have lurked in darker recesses of the Republican Party.”
Brilliant. And aside from the wishful villification part, how do you know these apocryphal bigots didn’t defect from the Democrat party, ala Murthaspeak?
“McCain/Palin have called these disaffected losers to center stage and made them the poster children of their campaign.”
Exactly what color is the sky in your world, Gasman? When you step out of the Daily Kos into sunlight, what single shred of anything rational do you use to construct a sentence like that? Who have McCain/Palin embraced? What pundit of any stripe have they held up as a standard for their campaign? Samuel Joseph? He’s a racist? He’s a hater? Sorry I must have missed that smear. Somebody else? Surely there’s room up your ass to reach up and extract one corporal example?
Just when you think the blind venomous hatred of Ashley Morris has shaken this mortal coil…
You sir, are a hateful bag of douche.
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whitebeard said on October 24, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Gasman, you spoke the truth and deserve some praise for exposing the sex appeal of Gov. Palin, although I wonder if the Republican Viagra set, or dear misguided forever hateful Dwight, swimming in his cesspool of ignorance, will appreciate that the campaign spent about $45,000 so far for the beauty queen pageant, er, election, (per Washington Post and New York Times) for makeup and hair styling and the month of October ain’t over yet. And that is not counting the makeup for McCain either.
OK, you can give the slacks, blouses and red leather jacket to charity and you can cut off the hair and put it in the wig bin at the Salvation Army thrift shop, but how in hell can you scrape off the makeup.
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Dwight said on October 24, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Yaknow…
For a guy who holds up the Fallacies of Logic as more relevant to modern living than The Bible, I must admit…
A little ad hominem DOES feel pretty good!
I’m beginning to see the attraction, Gasman.
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Julie Robinson said on October 24, 2008 at 3:59 pm
“This is just the latest addition to the growing list of deceptive ploys that Republicans at all levels seem to be compelled to employ as they cannot sway voters on issues alone.”
Just got the mail and included is the latest ploy from the Indiana State Republican Party. Anyone else seen this? “This is the story of William Ayers….Terrorist. Radical. Friend of Obama’s. Obama Has Close Ties to Domestic Terrorist”. It goes on and on. Ayers’ mug shot appears no fewer than 4 times along with all the same old twaddle they’ve been trotting out over and over again. They seem to believe if they tell lies long enough and loud enough someone will believe them. Some days I weep for our country.
Since this was sent to our “household” it doesn’t seem targeted at us, and I’m wondering how many others in the area got it. I will be contacting the GOP and letting them know that their tactics don’t go over well in our household.
And this on top of the JG endorsing not-my-man Mitch Daniels today!
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Dexter said on October 24, 2008 at 4:04 pm
LINK TO THURSDAY NITE SNL SKIT..Will Ferrell. Tina Fey.
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/update-thursday-bush-endorsement/783981/
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mark said on October 24, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Dwight-
I really appreciate your effort, but I think it is wasted.
Any disagreement on any thought invites the full unloading of all the invective the man can muster. Hyperbole, gross generalization and a string of pejoratives is the routine, and I think it is beyond his control to respond otherwise.
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Jeff Borden said on October 24, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I’ve no interest in refereeing a dispute between two passionate people –I’ve seen the film clip of that poor ref who gets clocked while officiating an Olympic boxing bout between an American and Cuban too many times– but I will say this.
John McCain is no more responsible for that sad woman’s fictitious attack than Barack Obama is for the guy who decorated his yard with a KKK hooded McCain chasing after Obama. Zealots on both sides leave much to be desired and do the politicians they support no good when they act badly.
That said, the packaging and selling of fear and apprehension has been the No. 1 tactic for the GOP for a long time. It reached its zenith after 9/11, but has been a basic part of the playbook since Richard Nixon embraced the “Southern strategy” to play on the anger and resentment of Southern whites after passage of the Civil Rights Act.
Many bad laws and decisions have resulted from using fear as a political accelerant. Iraq. FISA. Signing statements. Torture and rendition. Suspension of habeas corpus.
I’m not saying the Democrats are squeaky clean, either. They know how to whip up their own demons whenever anyone discusses Social Security, for example.
What our nation needs so very badly right now is an approach to our problems that is cool, calm and reasonable.
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Dwight said on October 24, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Right right.
Johnny’s got a hard on.
The only redeeming value Ms. Palin has on this planet is friction created by her mushy vortex.
There you go. Simply stellar. I’m convinced. Mmmm. Keep it comin’. This Kool-aid really IS good.
More, please! Tell me about bottom-up economics, because so many poor people have given me a job in my lifetime. Why didn’t I think of it before.
Yes, yes, it isn’t Reganomics anymore. It’s the FAILED POLICIES OF GEORGE BUSH AND JOHN MCCAIN that have caused the economic downturn of the last
two yearseight years; thehistorically low unemployment rate between 2000 and 2006UNPRECIDENTED 1.4% UPTICK IN UNEMPLOYMENT OF THE PAST SIX MONTHS!I SEE! I SEE! The blinding passion of your hatred for all who don’t believe as you do has HEALED ME! I finally GET IT! My entire life experience of getting ahead by working like a dog has been a hoax! I’m such a dumbass. I was supposed to stay put and WAIT FOR THE PRESIDENT WHO WILL SPREAD THE WEALTH MY WAY! The Carter years were a fluke.
Sure, you could have swayed me with logic, but you knew better. You knew I would eventually melt and be borne anew under your withering intolerance for my point of view.
And the most LEFT Republican presidential candidate to run for office in my lifetime? EFF THAT! He’s still to the right of… oh hell, somebody, so what was I thinking? How could I ever have supported anyone with values to the right of a centrist like Barack Obama.
Jesus. I must be a… Oh crap. Oh no. Yesss… Yess…. the Kool-Aid is in my veins I can no longer deny that I MUST BE A RACIST???!!!!????
Oh shit oh shit oh shit. Please, for the love of God, don’t tell my wife. She’s black and this won’t go over well.
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moe99 said on October 24, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Hey, Dwight: What do you think of Charles Fried?
24.10.2008
Reagan Appointee and (Recent) McCain Adviser Charles Fried Supports Obama
Charles Fried, a professor at Harvard Law School, has long been one of the most important conservative thinkers in the United States. Under President Reagan, he served, with great distinction, as Solicitor General of the United States. Since then, he has been prominently associated with several Republican leaders and candidates, most recently John McCain, for whom he expressed his enthusiastic support in January.
This week, Fried announced that he has voted for Obama-Biden by absentee ballot. In his letter to Trevor Potter, the General Counsel to the McCain-Palin campaign, he asked that his name be removed from the several campaign-related committees on which he serves. In that letter, he said that chief among the reasons for his decision “is the choice of Sarah Palin at a time of deep national crisis.”
Fried is exceptionally thoughtful and principled; his vote for Obama is especially noteworthy.
–Cass. R. Sunstein
UPDATE: Fried writes to TNR: I admire Senator McCain and was glad to help in his campaign, and to be listed as doing so; but when I concluded that I must vote for Obama for the reason stated in my letter, I felt it wrong to appear to be recommending to others a vote that I was not prepared to cast myself. So it was more of an erasure than a public affirmation–although obviously my vote meant that I thought that Obama was preferable to McCain-Palin. I do not consider abstention a proper option.
Posted: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:40 PM with 9 comment(s)
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Gasman said on October 24, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Dwight,
Take a chill pill dude, you are tightly wound. It would not really be worth my time to respond to all of your rants, but I’ll take a stab at a couple of them.
– My comment about Drudge was in direct response from a previous post by mark (or was it you after all?) and was not an unprompted stab at Drudge.
– As rationale for why McCain and Palin called Ashley Todd you stated, “they did it because they pretty much HAD to in order to have the anticipated response to an endless news cycle onslaught.”
What? You think that the media would have vilified McCain and Palin for NOT contacting this nut-job Todd? Right, like they are presently vilifying Obama for not contacting her. Your contention is beyond ridiculous. I’m not sure why you felt a need to even try and justify that one.
– “… [tactics] Republicans at all levels seem to be compelled to employ as they cannot sway voters on issues alone.”
How about the national polls and in most states? How about polling data that suggests that voters are overwhelmingly turned off by McCain’s negative attacks? How about polling data that suggests that Republicans find Sarah Palin more detrimental to McCain than George Bush’s record?
– As for my holding McCain and Palin responsible for the present political climate, have you been living in a cave? For starters, check out Frank Schaeffer’s column from October 10, in the Baltimore Sun:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.mccain10oct10,0,7557571.story
So I’m not the only one making this observation. I guess that you would lob the same charges at Schaeffer that you have at me.
– It may actually surprise you that I very rarely venture to the Daily Kos. It’s not that I don’t usually agree with them, I just don’t spend that much time on blogs aside from NN.com. (Go Nancy!)
You can criticize my opinions all you like, but I think that you would be hard pressed to characterize my postings as uninformed. If anything, my hyper-verbose postings are laden with citations and arguments buttressing my positions. However, you seem to think those inadequate. Maybe my posts need to be even longer.
– “You sir, are a hateful bag of douche.”
You seem to be a stickler for citation, so what evidence have you got to support that statement? Disagreement with you is not evidence of my hatefullness, unless you are a disciple of Sarah Palin. I know you don’t like me, but, hey, I guess I’ll just have to work through the pain of that fact.
– “Just when you think the blind venomous hatred of Ashley Morris has shaken this mortal coil…”
I am honored to be compared to Ashley Morris. Thank you for the compliment. Coming from you, that is high praise indeed. I came to know Ashley from his posts only from this Spring onward, not too long before his death. In that short time, I came to respect his passionate, obscenity laced tirades against folks like you. I will defend the honor of Ashley Morris.
Dwight, in the spirit of channeling Ashley Morris for a moment, “Fuck you, you fucking fuckmook fuck.” Wow, that felt good.
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LA Mary said on October 24, 2008 at 4:40 pm
I am so ready for this election to be over.
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jcburns said on October 24, 2008 at 5:12 pm
I’m amazed how this “spread the wealth” thing just pops up all the greed genes and causes people to clench their fists tighter around their money piles and say really, really nasty stuff.
No sense at all of the damage that the inequity of income does to our sense of commonality with our fellow humans.
And the pure fifties-paranoia that trots out the term “socialism”—man, oh man.
The irony is, of course, that probably few or none of the commenters here have the kind of income that would be subtracted from in the least by Obama’s plans. Most of us would have bigger piles to grasp desperately. And if we had folks in office that made sure the Treasury department did their regulatory best, our piles would be in much better shape, because we might have been able to escape much of this current economic tsunami.
Please, please broaden your lens to take in (and embrace) your fellow human.
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Jolene said on October 24, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Me too, LA Mary. But I did have fun this afternoon talking politics w/ my 84-year-old mother. This was a first, and I have no idea where it came from. But I think I may have persuaded to cast the first Democratic vote of her life, if, that is, she can remember what she said today by Election Day, which is by no means guaranteed.
For a calmer portrayal of the choice we face, check out Frontline, which is showing The Choice on your local PBS station this evening. This is a repeat. I saw it when it was shown and thought it was pretty good. Also available online.
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Connie said on October 24, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Me too, LA Mary, me too. I heard a different race segment this afternoon. Very scary. White Republicans (I’m not racist but…) fear that if Obama loses blacks will riot in the street. Democrats and others, including several African-American participants fear that white wingnuts will try to murder him.
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Jeff Borden said on October 24, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Right on, LA Mary, right on. These campaigns are starting to resemble baseball season, which starts to early and lasts too long.
I’m sick of the hyperpartisanship, which is why I was an early supporter of Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton. I feared her election would bring back too many of the old feuds and hatreds, where the O-man would start with a relatively clean slate.
It’s been said before that you can tell how a candidate’s administration will function by looking at their campaign. By that measure, No Drama Obama looks to be just what we need at this critical juncture. Comparing the campaign he has run all along to the train wreck poor John McCain has been driving is almost cruel.
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Gasman said on October 24, 2008 at 5:29 pm
To all at NN.com:
I apologize for the uncharacteristic outburst of profanity, but I found Dwight’s attack on the memory of our late friend Ashley Morris to be cowardly and beneath contempt. I was momentarily possessed by Ashley’s spirit and responded as I believe Ashley would have. Furthermore, I believe that it is a direct quote.
Dwight, I say let us not monopolize the bandwidth of NN.com with our jousting. If you want to spar some more, e-mail Nancy and have her give you my e-mail address and you can contact me directly. If I am tiring of the hot air that we have expended, I know that others on the site are too.
The political quote of the day comes from Benjamin Franklin:
“This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins.”
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Jeff Borden said on October 24, 2008 at 5:32 pm
JC,
Well said, man, well said. This is why I feel sympathy and not anger at illegal immigrants. All these folks want is a chance to make their lives and the lives of their children better. They risk life and limb and what meager savings they have to enter a country that treats them like dirt, so they can do the work none of us what to touch. As they say, There but for the grace of God go I.
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moe99 said on October 24, 2008 at 7:19 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03fcGelz8Hw
Let’s all have a glass of milk, some cookies and watch this video.
Or perhaps you’re a D&D fan?
http://somehedgehog.livejournal.com/245807.html
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joodyb said on October 24, 2008 at 9:37 pm
hedgehog is fecking brill. thanks, moe.you’re battin’ 500 this week.
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Linda said on October 24, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Back to original posting topic: Funny you should mention the Tawana Brawley case in reference to this one. I knew it was fake when there was a “b” carved in–and BACKWARD from how a person facing her would have carved it! Seriously, a book came out re: the Brawley case called “Outrage.” In it, a study was quoted that said that in many fake abduction cases, there is writing somewhere on the phony victim’s body (such as the racial slurs written on Tawana Brawley). In fact, in talk show host Morton Downey’s fake attack, there was a swastika painted on him (also backwards).
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Jen said on October 24, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Moe, that D&D parody was hilarious! I’m definitely sharing that with my other D&D dork friends.
LAMary, I totally agree with you. I am more than ready for this stupid election to be OVER! It’s been a nasty year or so.
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basset said on October 24, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Meanwhile… at least in England, you can get the Sarah look a lot cheaper than $150K…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1080521/Primark-Palin-Copy-look-fraction-cost.html
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Catherine said on October 24, 2008 at 11:03 pm
If only they could find me the leather jacket for $65.
Not in red, though, in my case.
On edit: That hedgehog link is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read. Would SNL please do it so I can watch in on YouTube?
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del said on October 25, 2008 at 12:01 am
Everyone’s down on the political argument between dwight and gasman, but sheesh, I don’t mind — just keep it smart and amusing (and remember that brevity is the sole of wit). Larry King asked Bill Maher if he had a problem with McCain’s temper. Maher said no; he’s more disturbed by the fact that Americans haven’t been angrier for the past several years. William Bennett’s conservative book lamented, “The Death of Outrage.” It’s okay to be angry.
I don’t mean to imply any equivalency between the arguments. Gasman’s far ahead, but dwight gets humor points for referencing “the friction created by [Palin’s] mushy vortex.” That was funny. New quantum physics?
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Dexter said on October 25, 2008 at 12:56 am
I loved the way Brian Williams intoned how McCain and Palin called the “victim” and her family, totally becoming engrossed in the fake attack and branding. At least he vetted the attack to a higher degree than he did his veep.
By what I read in The New Yorker, if McCain lives long to write his memoirs, he’ll damn and goddam Rove and all for denying him buddy Lieberman as veep.
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Gasman said on October 25, 2008 at 1:04 am
I guess McCain’s and Palin’s calls to Todd were a snap decision made with little thought or advice. I find it hard to believe that their campaign staff would think it was a good idea to wade into that mess. It seemed pretty clear from the beginning that it was rigged. Why not wait 24 hours and see how the thing played out. It’s just another instance where their campaign looks dysfunctionally goofy.
I am looking forward to dissections of this campaign from McCain, Palin, both of their supporters and detractors, and various principals from inside the organization. I predict they’ll all be blaming each other.
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Dexter said on October 25, 2008 at 2:17 am
As the Brian Williams interview commenced, Williams conversed with Palin on the tarmac of an Ohio airport. Williams asked her the simplest of questions: “Where are you coming from today?”
She was , again, the deer-in-the-headlights…she clearly did not know where she had flown in from! She said “Oh…we’ve been in DIFFERENT PARTS OF OHIO.” This after a blank stare which lasted a long time…for a short clip.
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on October 25, 2008 at 7:55 am
Hey, Gasman, let me start it (OK, it’s already begun).
Why is Charlie Black still allowed anywhere near a campaign? Say what you like, but i actually still have a grudging respect for Karl Rove. Black is not only a tool, he’s an amazingly unsuccessful tool. His record is disastrous, and my most disconcerting moment in this campaign was when i heard Black had been made a senior adviser. It ain’t about Steve Schmidt, folks, who is a functionary, mostly — it was this call that made lots of philosophical conservatives and traditional right wingers go “huh?”
Even Atwater had some standards and principles you could identify and trace, and a capacity for acknowledging his excesses even before the brain tumor endgame everyone knows about. But McCain never should have picked up this snake and warmed him in his bosom (you should already know how that old Aesop fable goes). My wife’s already reminded me i said months back when they announced Charlie as senior adviser “that is emphatically not good news for a McCain candidacy.” That’s the step that started lots of folks on the right in general and in DC who liked him in particular to start backing away (David Brooks very particularly, who told me at Denison when we were talking about Marshall Witmann that Witman would not come within miles of Charlie Black, that he represents everything McCain has always fought).
Marshall Witman and Karl Rove are like Beckel and Press and Shrum on the left — you gotta have pit bulls. But rabid dogs aren’t fighters, they’re liabilities. You have to tell the pit bulls from the possums with mange.
But i still think Sarah Palin has been the most fascinating litmus test ever to show up in national politics, left and right — the reactions are similar, but more symmetrically different. Palin is not stupid, not incompetent, and not going away . . . unless i hear later she retains Black or BKSH.
And i still think Obama is dangerously liberal in ways that deeply disturb me (Columbia, Columbia, Columbia, but no one wants to ask, to push, to see). So i guess i vote Nader and tough out the next four years, watching the Senate like a hawk and hoping (and praying) for the best.
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basset said on October 25, 2008 at 8:29 am
>>You have to tell the pit bulls from the possums with mange
that’s the quote of the day right there…
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del said on October 25, 2008 at 9:03 am
Wow Jeff. You had a casual conversation with the David Brooks? Pretty cool. As for Palin, when you describe her as fascinating I imagine you placing closed fist with extended pinkie at the corner of your lips, like Dr. Evil. Or maybe arching an eybrow like Mr. Spock. Giving her the benefit of the doubt though as to intelligence and competence, it’s her authenticity and integrity that’s been compromised. She burst onto the national stage without authenticity. It’s not that she’s a phony exactly, she’s just not real. Her act is pure schtick and a caraciture of middle America that’s transparent and insulting on some level. I hate it when any politicians does it. Maybe its just politics. And her extremely aggressive attacks, delivered with a sweet smile, reflect poorly on her. She has willingly accepted the role, though I heard a conservative pundit try to distance her from the remarks by saying that the campaign put them into her mouth and “when America meets the real Sarah Palin” yada, yada, (ugh).
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on October 25, 2008 at 9:15 am
Hey, Denison University really is an amazing place. I end up standing around chatting with Dick Lugar all the time here (he’s one of our trustees, and an alum, but Jennifer Garner is much cuter and Steve Carell much richer, but still nice).
Two years ago i had a lengthy, very friendly but cheerfully loud conversation with Howard Dean (much hand gesturing and arm waving; he comes to my ribs, but somehow kept his nose in my face the whole back and forth, levitating, i think), also UCC as is/was Obama, about why the Dems suck so much at relating to average everyday religion in middle America. He kept insisting to me that they really do care on the national level, but that too many national figures are stuck between childhood frustration with old school Catholicism (nuns with rulers, etc.) and their early adulthood encounters with Falwell and Robertson, and they just can’t pick up the fact that there’s a whole ‘nother continent there in between the jagged coastlines.
But he said they’d do better in ’08. They didn’t do lots better, but some. I take him at his word that it will continue to be a “vital outreach effort” past this election, as well. They still have to figure out how to detriangulate the Clinton bloc and Abortion as an issue that goes waaaay beyond cheap polling phrases.
Palin’s the veep candidate. Biden’s aggressive, Palin’s aggressive. That’s God’s plan [koff] for presidential endgames, from before the beginning of time. Doesn’t mean much to me either way.
As i said to David Brooks, i miss Marshall Witman. He does, too.
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jcburns said on October 25, 2008 at 9:28 am
Jeff, there really isn’t such a thing as “dangerously liberal.” Liberalism has caused nothing that I can trace back through our country’s history that I would label as even vaguely “dangerous.” You go down that path and you get “menacing compassion,” and “threatening generosity,” and “idealism that threatens the fabric of our being.” These things can be errors in terms of political calculation, but they generally don’t end up costing lives, freedoms, or the respect of others. Maybe liberalism has cost us some money…but, y’know? That really IS only money.
By the way, read your ‘columbia, columbia’ link. First of all, Nader’s political opinions are considerably to the left (and by that I don’t mean wrong, I just mean in relative terms) to those attached to Obama via innuendo in that National Review piece. The money quote, after all the fear-baiting: “We know precious little about Obama’s Columbia years…” …well, then shut the hell up, Andrew McCarthy, and stop wasting our time trying to attach political viewpoints to candidate Obama that he may have “been exposed to” (ah, the infectiousness of thought) at Columbia how many decades ago. Let me tell you sometime what infections of the mind I was exposed to in school. Oooh…scary!
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del said on October 25, 2008 at 9:57 am
Jeff, Howard Dean too? Love it. Thanks jc for the post.
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Jolene said on October 25, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Yes, jc, I’ve always thought that the reason we haven’t seen Obama’s Columbia transcript is that it lists too many courses of the sort I took. The reason the Ayers business and all the nonsense about Obama’s associations has led to nothing is because, in fact, they led to nothing. Obama is a middle-class family man, as a well-known presidential candidate said recently. He is not going to turn the world upside down.
What’s been surprising to me is hearing people say–in snippets of news shows, mainly–that they expect Obama to “look out for” blacks to the detriment of whites and Hispanics. This sentiment is, as far as I can tell, born entirely of fear and guilt, as there is no evidence whatsoever in anything Obama has ever said or done that he would do any such thing.
Honestly, when I see and hear the kinds of things he’s made himself vulnerable to, I’m in awe. Even for the power of the presidency, it’s a lot to take on.
And I wonder whether the racism and the interpretation of action in terms of race will stop after he’s in office. A day or so ago, I saw a crack on a comment board arguing (I used the word advisedly) that an interview w/ Robin Roberts, an African-American reporter on ABC, was a joke because, of course, a black person was never going to ask Obama a hard question. If people are looking for insult at that level, we may be in for a long four years, filled with a lot of snarling.
I know it’s not wise to pay attention to every random remark that happens into my consciousness, but the happenings occur frequently enough that I begin to wonder whether people are going to be able to deal with it, should Obama, indeed, win.
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moe99 said on October 25, 2008 at 12:17 pm
JC–I read the National Review piece as well and came away shaking my head. For McCarthy innuendo must be an italian suppository, he’s that full of it. There is not one shred of fact in that screed, not one piece of information that actually connects the dots. It’s got desperation writ large over it, given the date.
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on October 25, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Nader is hyperbole. I really have no idea who i will vote for; don’t rule out “Vote for the crook, it’s important” is all i’m saying.
JC, there’s too much going on that is utterly being stonewalled by Axlerod et alia for me to say “oh, he just attended a few leftist themed classes at Columbia.” I do think Ayers invited Obama to Chicago, set him up from the start, and wrote much of “Dreams From My Father,” (read “Fugitive Days” and “Dreams” back to back, then read “The Audacity of Hope,” and you tell me) and i think the ties to Rezko and Khalidi and Auchi mean that we’ll be in Clinton ’98-’99 territory almost at the outset of Obama’s first term. I’m not happy about that, i’m not wanting it, but i don’t see how it can be avoided, since it has all been so suppressed. This is a problem, and saying Palin’s a hypocrite and a dunce because she bought designer eyewear in Juneau doesn’t make it all go away.
On the other hand, i get called socialist everytime i talk about single payer health care for America as an engine for economic vitality and a support for global innovation by the US in foreign markets, even when i talk r – e – a – l – l – y s – l – o – w – l – y to fellow Repubs, and Dems just go “Cool, so you’re down with the whole national health care, reproductive rights, federal guidelines for everything deal?”
McCain hired a slimeball, and i’m ticked, because he’s an ineffective, malign slimeball. But i still think Obama is pretty much the political creation of a group which we keep being told doesn’t exist, that he sprang ex-nihilo from the fertile basin of Calumet Harbor on Chicago’s South Side, of which Ayers is only the most visible tugboat captain who just gave Barack’s boat a push or two years and years ago.
There is also much good that can come from an Obama election. I’ve regularly said that. I wish i had a better sense of what damage he might do, but events alone may keep that hemmed in. Taxes are going up on everyone who makes a paycheck over the next twenty years, there is no one who can promise otherwise (due to feckless deferred maintenance on everything, national, state, local, you name it). The question is what we’ll spend it on, and who we’ll let spend it, and how we’ll do the oversight. Maybe Obama’s team will handle that well; i truly, truly hope so. And i don’t rule out that he could, but Congressional Dems are already talking about how to spend 25% of the Defense budget.
That’ll look smart in a few years, yah, youbetcha.
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moe99 said on October 25, 2008 at 12:43 pm
That 25% of the Defense budget would come from expensive new weapons systems. I’m not sure that’s not a bad idea. But perhaps we should just continue to build ever bigger and better ways to kill people, especially since no one else seems to be doing it.
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Jolene said on October 25, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Jeff, I’ve always thought you had reasonable things to say–wrong sometimes, but reasonable–until I read the first paragraph of your last post. There just is no evidence to support your claims about how Obama ended up in Chicago, whereas we do have real accounts of what actually happened–how he was offered a job by Gerald Kellman of the Developing Communities Project.
The idea of writing his first book was prompted by a literary agent, who had read about him in the NYT when he was elected president of HLR. He was offered an office at the University of Chicago based on his work at the Law Review.
It’s downright indecent to call another person’s accomplishments into question based on some completely unsubstantiated idea about what could have happened.
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Jolene said on October 25, 2008 at 1:09 pm
As for Palin, she just does not have it intellectually. Yesterday, in her speech in Pittsburgh, she was making fun of the idea of using fruitflies to conduct biological research. What a shocking waste of the taxpayers’ money. The biologists of the world are, no doubt, looking forward to hearing her ideas about how to conduct their work.
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moe99 said on October 25, 2008 at 1:15 pm
that fruitfly research Palin was mocking? Led to the discovery of a possible gene marker for autism. Now that’s some well thought out sarcasm, would you not say?
And I’m with Kevin Drum on this:
And you know the part I’m really looking forward to? Sarah Palin’s role in all this. I expect her to rip McCain absolutely to shreds. On background, of course, but it will be no less vicious for that. Her future, such as it is, lies with the wingnut rump of the party, and she knows what her audience wants: John McCain’s blood. And lots of it. They never liked him in the first place, and I expect them to be howling for his head on a platter starting at about 8:01 pm EST on November 4th.
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jcburns said on October 25, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Jeff, you think “Ayers invited Obama to Chicago, set him up from the start, and wrote much of ‘Dreams From My Father'”?
You really think that? You believe that? I’m with Jolene et al who believe you often have very reasonable (intelligent!) things to say here but then I kinda have to put that in the um..er…less than reasonable category.
You also say (and I shake my head after all of this) “I really have no idea who i will vote for.” I still have hope you’ll vote for Obama, and then feel good about it (or at least as good as anyone can feel voting for a president.)
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on October 25, 2008 at 2:14 pm
As i just suggested, i was asked to read the two books back to back a few months ago. I did so. Remember, at that time, Obama supposedly had not yet met Ayers, never knew him until later. I read the two books, and was startled. Try it, and YMMV. If it simply turns out later that Obama was hiding the fact that they had been friends and associates for the obvious political reasons, and nothing more than a reformed radical working within the liberal wing of the Dem party, he will probably release the information within the next year, and it will just be a VRWC talking point on Sean Hate-’em-twee hosted programs.
But if we see FOCA signing on day one, a strong push for federalized marriage standards to include all couples regardless of gender, a massive cut to defense spending (Moe, Predator drone technology has saved, is saving, many innocent lives, let alone our soldiers — your pork is my lifeline, and we still need a couple new carriers that should have been started ten years ago), and a very new approach to countries like Venezuela and Bolivia and Malaysia, while pursing a fairly narrow energy policy that is more punitive to oil and coal interests (who richly deserve, on a personal level, all the cr4p sandwiches we can serve them, but . . .) than assertive of American energy independence by all means necessary, atomic fission/fusion included . . .
You can blame people like me for the culture war if you want, but that’s going to be like opening up a whole new Eastern Front, and you recall how Operation Barbarossa went.
JC, i don’t reject your hope at all, i just can’t find it in the data i have to hand. Beyond the data is the leap of faith. Thanks for thinking i might jump that way!
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brian stouder said on October 25, 2008 at 2:31 pm
JC, i don’t reject your hope at all, i just can’t find it in the data i have to hand.Beyond the data is the leap of faith.
Excuse me – but, horse feathers.
Who said?..:
JC, there’s too much going on that is utterly being stonewalled by Axlerod et alia for me to say “oh, he just attended a few leftist themed classes at Columbia.”
But – one cannot “prove” a negative, and therefore your own faith in the wholly fabricated ghosts (so to speak) in Obama’s closet is (at best) a ‘leap of faith’ ‘beyond the data’.
From dictionary.com:
Faith: 2. belief that is not based on proof
Hope:(verb) to look forward to with desire and reasonable confidence.
This is not intended as an unkind shot at our mild-mannered Jeff; rather – it struck me as almost precisely exemplifying how the Republican Party left me.
Given the choice, I’d sooner vote my hopes, then allow my fears to dictate my vote.
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moe99 said on October 25, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Jeff, I find it ironic that given your profession, you can’t see that cutting from new weapons spending (not current weapons, like the Predator drone which is already in use, but pie in the sky sorts of things that no other country is spending) As a friend of mine wrote: we need a well equipped armed forces, but well equipped does not mean flying billion dollar a plane bombers or half billion dollar a plane fighter jets to fight third world jihadists. For the cost of one or two of those planes, we could have equipped everyone in Iraq with appropriately armed vehicles and would have plenty of leftover change. Military spending is fungible; there is plenty that is necessary and plenty that isn’t. One of the few good ideas Rumsfeld had before he became obsessed with empire was reducing the hugely expensive weapons programs under development designed solely to ensure that when the crunch came, we would prevail at the Fulda Gap.
Oh, and bulding on your comment, Brian, which came out as I was writing mine, it seems that you, Jeff, are making a flying leap of faith when you assume that connections were made between Ayers and Obama at Columbia. So far all we’ve read is conjecture of the rankest sort. Give us proof, or give up the argument.
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del said on October 25, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I agree with Jolene, moe99 and jc on this. My first thought on reading Jeff tmmo’s post was “apophenia.” We see what we want to see. Jeff tmmo, what do you think the person’s views are who asked you to read the Ayers and Obama books back-to-back? And why on earth would you do it? What relationships were you hoping to see or not see? As for redirecting defense dollars to domestic matters, I’m all for it, despite the fact that terrorism is a fact in the 21st century and we’ll suffer like everyone . . .
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alex said on October 25, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Jeff TMMO, I just read two McCain mailers back to back. I see a conspiracy here. The Dems must be putting this stuff out to make the Republicans look this ridiculous.
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caliban said on October 25, 2008 at 5:10 pm
I‘m trying HTML here so excuse me if it doesn‘t work. Sarah Palin says she‘s hardcore pro-life. I’m happy that she sees the moral and scientific bankruptcy of the death penalty and wars of choice on innocent bystanders.
As a Catholic , this is important to me. I believe, like the Democratic Party and the American Council of Bishops (aside from the two-hand count of bad papal choices that choose self-aggrandizement in suggesting John Kerry shouldn‘t go to Communion; is he beyond Extreme Unction if he mortally wounds himself skiing in Colorado?), that abortion is an indicator of serious societal bad Karma, and if people could be convinced to take part in fostering social jusssstice and equity, and concern for the common weal demanded by Jesus of Christians,, the practice would become rare. As George Clinton said, ‘If you dance to the music, you got to pay it to the piper. ‘
These are bedrock philosophical tenets of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. I’m not sure about other religions, great and small. The acceptance that seems to be inherent in Buddhism is difficult for me to get my brain around. The idea that Sister left a pet in charge when she left the room and your checkmarks determine where you stand after summer vacation is disconcerting. How bad were the thoughtless things I‘ve done? Do I keep doing things, like Bill Murray, until I get it right?. I don’t mean to be disrespectful, and reincarnation sounds both Teillhardian and something like William Jennings Bryant.
So there’s Sarah. If she could be spirited away on a snow machine and replaced with a Renaissance woman like Tina Fey, you know, the one without the lantern jaw pre-op look, I’d go for that, maybe. Still, how is it that everybody’s concerned about Palin’s ability when McCain is a very bad pilot that that thinks he’s entitled?
I would like to have been in the room when the anti=matter Mary Tyler Moore announced herself ‘pro-life’. I would have asked her what she thought about the shitheel draft-dodger W mocking , mocking Karla Faye Tucker. How did GOP voter suppression thugs and imaginary voters in Florida, and Ken Blackwell , and W’s suitably mindless Ohio Campaign Chair square queering Cuyahoga County with their Lord and Personal Savior?
Whatever it takes. It’s pretty easy to claim you’re a Christian. Despite having been brought up in a family that goes to church at an outpost of what Falwell and his pals call a demonic cult, I went to Jesuit School, I believe no man is an island, I believe we’re all responsible for what happens to all of us. I think that’s hard-core pro-life.
The evidence against Troy Davis is running out with the tide, same as his time on earth. If cops hadn’t muscled and misled alleged witnesses, there’d be no evidence. And now, the rush to judgement is fading down a moonlight mile. But the United States of America is still going to kill him. Maybe he did it, but it seems the only witness against him was the perpetrator.
The death penalty is monstrously expensive, and it’s just monstrous. If you go along with this, you’re the same sort of asshole that buys Scalia embedding W, Ohio being blat out robbed in 2004, and Hammurhabi being a Christian forefather.
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brian stouder said on October 25, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Leaving aside who will ultimately get the helm of the ship of state….here’s hoping that the Proprietress is still happily married, and the Nall Navy (or the Derringer Dreadnaught) is successfully dry-docked
(The end of boating season is at hand. I’m off to help pull “Lush Life” from the water. Back later, if I’m not divorced.)
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caliban said on October 25, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Sorry for running on. There is just something about claiming Christianity that fries my ass. The socialism business. Jesus didn’t believe in Ada Smith’s benevolent hand. People that claim to be Christians would invariably tell you that Catholics are some sort of bizarre cult. Excuse me, we were there first. As I understand it, you’re not a Christian unless you choose the Lord Your God as your personal savior. I kinda boughtr it from the getgo.
So. Do You believe in God? Personal question. Do you believe some scumbag corporate Republican can guarantee Ohio when he’s sitting on all the eminently fuckable voting machines? Gore won. Kerry won.
W is McCain light. W said McCain had a lovechild that was dusky. W’s dad bailed out of a plane. He was scared. W fled to Alabama. John Kerry was a man. There is a lot to be said for bashing Creepupublicans for the revoting shit they pulled on Kerry when his opponent was a chickenshit ahole.
Latr refuge. Republicans including Cheney are Nixon=era draft-dodgers. If American voters had an ounce of decency, W with no clue vs. Kerry? Dive me a break.
AThis starts with the booboisee. People are so fucking dumb they think they’re Republicans? Morons.
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moe99 said on October 25, 2008 at 5:45 pm
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2008/oct/20/00014/
This is the American Conservative magazine questioning McCain’s fitness. Not some left wing publication. Just the first two paragraphs:
He has been called McNasty and Senator Hothead, but John McCain has called his fellow senators far worse. Newsweek reported that he “erupted out of the blue” at Budget Committee Chairman Pete Domenici, saying, “only an a–hole would put together a budget like this.” He called Sen. Chuck Grassley a “f—ing jerk” and capped a profane tirade during last year’s amnesty debate by screaming “f— you” at Sen. John Cornyn. Then there was the scuffle on the Senate floor with Strom Thurmond when the South Carolina senator was a less-than-spry 93.
No one is immune from his outbursts. A pair of Arizona physicians, Robin Silver and Bob Witzeman, went to meet McCain to discuss their concerns about a telescope project he wanted to fund. “He jumped up and down, screaming obscenities at us for at least 10 minutes,” Silver told CounterPunch’s Jeffrey St. Clair. “He shook his fists as if he was going to slug us.”
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caliban said on October 25, 2008 at 6:05 pm
That young girl is a brain-washed idiot. I lived in Boston when Chuck Stewart had the BPD stop and search every black man period,
Her black eye? Not swollen. 6’4″.
Horseshit. Why didn’t they just track down some Celtics player? Racist assholes. If any of you knew about Boston, you’d be asking about Levi Hart. In Boston, if a murderer says it must have been a black guy, we invade Roxbury and make every ‘Nuck’ take dpwn his pats.
The kid is a whackjob. She needs help.
I’d like some consideration. How the fuck is Matt Drudge anything but a butthole?
I’ve had it with Obamaniacs, Here’s the deal. This whole idea about taxes. Soes anybody thing inheriting wealth trickles down? Cutting tazes on beanie babies means rich people get richer.
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Gasman said on October 25, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Jeff(tmmo),
I wish I knew why McCain hired Black or any of the other myriad neo-con hacks. I find his recent conversion troubling. He loathed the campaign that Bush/Rove ran against him in 2000, but has essentially hired the same crew and co-opted the same sleazy tactics. All other beefs with him aside, that about face would be a deal breaker in my book.
I’m puzzled by your line “And i still think Obama is dangerously liberal in ways that deeply disturb me.”
What precisely is disturbing about being liberal? If my memory serves me correctly, it seems that two liberal Democratic presidents had to come in and clean up after two laissez faire Republican presidents screwed up our economy. The two worst economic disasters in our history due to conservative economic policies and who bailed them out? Liberal Democrats. Oh, the horror!
I believe that we also have a socially liberal Savior in common. What’s disturbing about Christ’s liberality?
Really, the nonsense fear-mongering that the Rs are spreading regarding how we’ll all go to hell if Obama is elected is laughably moronic. There is just no historical (or hysterical) empirical evidence to buttress their claims. No great disasters attended us during the Clinton or Roosevelt years and they effectively cleaned up all of the Republican wreckage that was left of our economy.
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Gasman said on October 25, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Interestingly, one of my recent predictions is coming true: McCain and Palin are turning on each other (and it happened right here in NM):
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html
My favorite quote:
“She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone,” said this McCain adviser. “She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else.
“Also, she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember: Divas trust only unto themselves, as they see themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom.”
Palin has ambition alright, but she lacks the political capital, skill, and intellect to engineer herself for control of the Republican Party. Besides, her only constituency is the fundagelicals, and their time in the sun is past. They did not decide the 2006 elections and they won’t decide the 2008 elections either. There power is not sufficient to seize control of the party.
My political quote of the day was chosen especially for Palin:
“Those who corrupt the public mind are just as evil as those who steal from the public purse.” – Adlai Stevenson
Palin has both stolen from the public purse and corrupted the public mind. What does that make her?
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caliban said on October 25, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Here’s the deal. These assholes think they’ve been rubbing dthe country and they thought Kommissar Karl was somehow in chage. If you dthink doing dthat fade with Max Cleland and Sackless wasn;t despicable enough to beat these ASSHOLES TO A PULP.
Look at the way these aholes behaved. They think voters are morons. They think there’s no way voters have the brains to understand that the last two elections were pure bullshit.
Know What? Mccain can whine about John Lewis. Fucking joking?
These aholes have have done evertthing to act like they aren’t a bunch of racists bastards.
When you get right down to it, in 2000, these assholes stole Volusia County. In 2004, they stole Cuyahoga County. The Republican Party cheated their ass off. They lose.Despicable pieces of shit.
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on October 25, 2008 at 7:38 pm
A Washington Post poll reported a 10-point lead for the Democratic presidential candidate in 13 key “swing” states 16 days before the election. That candidate was John Kerry. That election year was 2004.
When Election Day 2004 arrived, “exit poll” trends reported to the public before the real polls closed also indicated that Sen. Kerry would win the White House. When the real votes were counted, he lost by more than 3 million votes to President Bush, though it took a relatively slim, 118,775-vote triumph in Ohio for the incumbent to win the Electoral College and keep his job.
So despite Sen. Kerry’s apparent inside track to victory, he was not elected president. And despite the significant edge Barack Obama has held over John McCain in most recent polls, particularly in “swing” states, he hasn’t won the presidency yet.
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/oct/25/voters_not_polls_will_decide59169/
[Oh, the Apophenia phenomenon has definitely occured to me, Del. It could be. But the surrounding data isn’t about proving a negative, it’s about intentionally blocked stretches of time of which we know nothing. That doesn’t help me argue apophenia to myself very much. Moe, you are welcome to keep telling me i should be a pacifist; i’m spending most of this weekend with Anabaptists, so i’m possibly the only warmonger among 330 fellow Christians this weekend. Still ain’t one, though, but i respect the ‘eck out of ’em.]
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Suzi said on October 25, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Republican hearts all aflutter in the Fort tonight – Caribou Barbie just took the stand at the Coliseum. 13,000 or so slobbering fans including our adored Mark Souder and Mike Pence – gag — see a Pence/Palin ticket in 2012?
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Suzi said on October 25, 2008 at 8:00 pm
“in Pittsburgh, she was making fun of the idea of using fruitflies to conduct biological research”
I wonder if she’ll make the fruitfly comment tonight . She probably doesn’t watch Rachel Maddow who observed last night that autism brain chemistry is better understood because of fruitfly research.
Oh, she’s wearing a tweed skirt and a cute little couture looking black jacket and, of course, the alien beehive “do”.
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caliban said on October 25, 2008 at 8:10 pm
My family is from Georgia. They lived through the Sackless Chambliss obscenity. Saxby ran ads where he morped the face of Max Cleland with the face of osama. Saxbu didn’t serve. Max did. You know, John Kerry did, with honor. This is what the GOP does. They really amount to scum and liars. Saxby denigrates a Viet Vet when he had other things to attend to. W denigrates Kerry. When Kerry was a combat hero and W was making sure the OClub had Wild Turkey.
Greenspan is just shocked that the hand isn’t benevolent. Holy shit. This seemed sort of obvious to me when I first heatd about Adam Smith. Benevolent hand? Let’s just put a sales tax on necessities and call idt a fair tax. If you’re rich, a national salestax might be an inconvenience. If you live from paycheck to paycheck, you are croaked. This is loony. Fair Tax taxes the poor. 23% on milk is not the same as 23% on buying a really big boat.
Here’s the deal. People that inherit wealth don’dt create jobs or wealth. Nothing ever trickled down except piss. The idea that inherited wealth produces jobs when its untaxed is a lie beyond comprehension.
We’re Americans. We’re supposed to think that we care about every American. That’s actually Christian. Americans are actuually so stupid they don’trealize that the invaison and occupation of Iraq are being funded off the books by the biggest earmark ever invented.
Saxby is the Republican Party, and he believes in trickle down. Repulicans apparently believe that insurance company bean counters will provide some sort of reasonable health care. Anybody that believes this is an idiot or a yhrall to whack job liars like people in thr pocket of theFrist Family.
If the country had signed on with Hillarys’s plan, back inthe nineties, We’d be in a much better state.
Whar I’m saying. If you care about your fellow citizens, if you care about human beings, you couldn’t possibly believe McCain isn’t a piece of crap. He’s a liar. Everythg comes out of his mouth.
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Jolene said on October 25, 2008 at 8:18 pm
“So despite Sen. Kerry’s apparent inside track to victory, he was not elected president. And despite the significant edge Barack Obama has held over John McCain in most recent polls, particularly in “swing” states, he hasn’t won the presidency yet.”
This statement is true, Jeff, but you and The Charleston Post and Courier are misrepresenting the data, as it existed on 10/16/04 or, at best, leaving out significant chunks of it.
In fact, looking across multiple polls, we can readily see that Bush held a small lead throughout October 04, a result entirely consistent w/ his margin of victory. In addition to the graphic display at the previous link, you can see the same results displayed in a table. The highlighted section at the top shows the Real Clear Politics average during the week preceding the 2004 election.
There are currently at least four web sites that aggregate poll results in various ways. All seem to be credible, and all are explicit about their assumptions and methods. (And all, by the way, are predicting substantial electoral college victories for Senator Obama.) Much better to rely on these aggregate analyses than a single poll that shows a result you happen to like.
Here they are.
Pollster
FiveThirtyEight
Real Clear Politics
Princeton Election Consortium
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Gasman said on October 25, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Jeff(tmmo),
What you neglected to mention about the election in 2004 was all of the allegations of vote caging, voter intimidation, and outright disenfranchisement by the Republicans. This was criminal and they have never answered for it. They are trying to stage similar coups this year. Fortunately, enough Dems. have grown spines to challenge them in court.
I am also disappointed with your falling back on unsubstantiated rumors, gossip, and outright lies, all of which are the stock and trade of the basest elements of the Republican right wing. You’ve lobbed in several of those canards. Those are the products of intellectual sloth, and I would have thought you above those kind of tactics. Oppose Obama on the issues if you must, but do you really believe some of the nonsense you’ve repeated? Leave the gutter sniping to those whom it suits better.
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moe99 said on October 25, 2008 at 9:20 pm
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry.html
Try this poll of Kerry v. Bush on for size, Jeff. It’s rather closer to the truth.
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brian stouder said on October 25, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Well, hell. The odds are, we won’t be alive when another presidential election like this one comes along, let alone when Fort Wayne is on the “must visit” list of a major party candidate on ten days before the election. So – we headed for the airport at about 6 pm….and saw the McCain-Palin marked Embraier land, and the candidate and her family disembark. Grant and I were at the fence, and waved and clapped politely
‘Course, we didn’t bring our camera, so we got only one phone-photo of the vanguard of her motorcade rolling out
http://www.scrapsoflife-pam.blogspot.com/
Pam had the best line – “I’ll probably never get to see Tina Fey in person, so now I’ve seen the next best thing!”
(this picture, at WOWO radio’s website, was pretty much exactly our view
http://www.wowo.com/Portals/0/images/News/Palin%204.jpg
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Jolene said on October 25, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Check out what Focus on the Family is saying about what the world will be like in 2012 if Obama is elected. Those folks are seriously into fear.
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MichaelG said on October 25, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Seen the latest? The bullshit bidding process on Palin’s Pet Pipeline?
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caliban said on October 26, 2008 at 12:05 am
“So despite Sen. Kerry’s apparent inside track to victory”
Despite a moral certitude that his opponent was a petty, mindless twit. Ohio was still there for stealing. Despite the fact that W was a malleable piece of stupidity, nothing could stand in the way of stealing Ohio.
Brian, don’t go gentle. There’s a Constitution, and signing statements are bullshit. Who do Cheney and this pissant draft dodger think they’re for aanti-Americans, she could investigate herselg and Dickless Cheney. What the hell is wrong with this anti-American scum?
McCain has embraced the foul tactics he reviled when they were used against him. We;ve suffered through a campaign based on outrageous slander against Kerry, whose apparent sin was serving and saving lives, and not getting loaded at the O Club.
Perhaps, America has moved past the stupidity. If Americans still believe what trickles down isn’t piss, they could vote like sheep for another pilot that didn’t know how to fly the plane. MxXain couldn’t ‘slip the surly bonds of earth’. He’s not a tougf guy, he made a career out of hiding behind Kerry’s courage. You could look it up on the Google
Barack’s not Bobby. Nobody is, but he’s not a nitwit run by amoral and venal bastards, so things would have to be looking up.
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on October 26, 2008 at 12:05 am
Dobson ain’t my pope, and i understand their fiscals are in le tank along with Lehman Bros. Schadenfreude for the house, bartender.
Count on Doctor Dobson to make a stupid point when a simple one would do — Cardinal Egan is no Einstein, but when you know your limits (“a man’s got to know his limits” y’know), you can accomplish something useful, such as with this simple article: http://www.cny.org/archive/eg/eg102308.htm
Of course, in the context of Dobson’s fundraising fantasy, that article will be dismissed as equally “divisive and hostile”, which it is not. It asks a question that rarely gets answered, except by mavericks like . . . Camille Paglia.
Go figure. (Palin-Paglia 2012 Fusion Ticket?)
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Gasman said on October 26, 2008 at 12:07 am
MichaelG,
When my Canadian in laws were visiting a couple of weeks ago, they laughed when they heard Palin boasting about her pipline. They seem to think that it is highly unlikely it will ever happen. It seems that at least one, possibly more, Canadian tribes have total veto power over the entire deal and they are apparently not wanting it to happen. My bet is that it never does.
While Palin was in Fort Wayne today, both McCain and Obama had rallies here in Albuquerque. McCain’s drew 3,000 while Obama’s drew 35,000 + 10,000-15,000 outside that couldn’t get in. Obama drew 45,000-50,000; nearly 17 times McCain’s crowd.
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Jolene said on October 26, 2008 at 12:15 am
Jeff TMMO: I left some info re 2004 polling for you above. Because it’s a long message w/ multiple links, it required intervention from our hostess and thus didn’t get posted until several hours after I wrote it.
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moe99 said on October 26, 2008 at 12:22 am
Jolene–Real Clear Politics rocks!! Funny we got to the same site.
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caliban said on October 26, 2008 at 12:35 am
When you get punched, your eye swells. Go to the polls Glasshoppa, but if this isn’t race-baiting, I’m Barney Fife. Everybody knew from the get-fo the girl was lying. The obscene jumping on the story is the story. The McCain campaign and its minions, and their immediate willingness to go all Chuck Stewart is the only story. The ‘B’ was gone during her frofmarch. Old news? Nooooope. Injecting the racist card never gets old. Nothing Joe said had any connection with reality. This assault was a fabrication with a racial twist. Lee Atwater is rolling in his grave.
If they steal it or they simply act like you never voted, it must have been meant to be. Like you lived in Ohio, or Volusia County. If you’re black, stay back. If you’re brown stick around, Ed Rollins has a chicken bone to pick with you. It’s spectacular that Republicans are up in arms about registration fraud when they excel at vote fraud and voter suppression.
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whitebeard said on October 26, 2008 at 12:38 am
I saw W on Sunday on a rainy afternoon, the scariest truth indeed, but a decent movie. I came home and read something about Daimler closing factories for a month and the insurance industry and hedge funds wanting part of the $700 billion bailout pie. I read of the millionaires’ plaything, Cerberus Capital Management, pursuing General Motors by offering the crumbling shell of Chrysler for the rest of GMAC, the GM credit arm, so that GM can shutter its rival’s factories. The Bush Legacy will continue for some time after Jan 20th, no matter who wins; it will take years to cleanse the bleeding global economy, to purge the almighty greed, to heal the gaping financial wounds from the Bush administration. Hang in there, friends, hang in there. I am, as you know, a Canadian who cannot vote but I urge you to march to the polling stations or cast your ballot early so that McCain does not get his chance to do more damage.
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moe99 said on October 26, 2008 at 1:06 am
love James Wolcott.
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2008/10/this-halloween-be-on-the.html
The last paragraph sums it up nicely:
And to think they called us “sore losers” in 2000! They haven’t even lost yet and they’re already blaming the victor, acting all butch and making with the big talk about stocking up on gold and ammo as they hole up in the shag-carpeted panic room and let their whiskers grow. They can’t face the fact that conservatism has epically failed; this is their way of pouting and refusing to come out and play, leaving everybody else to deal with the ruin left behind.
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caliban said on October 26, 2008 at 1:42 am
Rush said that Obama was actually going to Hawawii gecause of his unAmerican origins. How long Catiline, Except Catiline could actually speak the language and he wasn’t the least of Willard;s rats. Rush was actually a pub-flogging liberal in a previous incarnation, presumably as a cockroach.
How is it that morons that claim to be independent thinkers allow themselves to be led by nose rings by an obese oxy-poppin’ moron? And they aren’t disenfranchised? Hawaii was a state two years before Obama was born, pindick.
I always thought Thomas Jefferson was right about government and newspapers, but, have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? With the exception of rags owned by Rupert Murdoch, who did his damndest to destroy the Dodgers, newspapers attempt honesty every day. Tubes pump unmitigated bullshit. I’d like to soak the infamous fedora in lighter fluid and set fire to it with Matt Drudge wearing it.
It’s bad enough that these internet and radio assholes trash journalism, but do they have to be such sans-gonads chikenshit little weenies when they do it?
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Gasman said on October 26, 2008 at 1:44 am
The NYT Magazine has a lengthy article about the McCain and his campaign:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/magazine/26mccain-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
While they clearly did not fully vet Palin, Rick Davis, Steve Schmidt, and Mark Salter did know of Bristol’s pregnancy, the trooper scandal, and her lack of familiarity with critical campaign issues. Yet, they still thought she was the best pick.
They seemed to repeatedly refer to her “confidence” and “self-assurance.” In brief encounters, it is hard to distinguish between those traits and hubris and arrogance. Which two are the more likely tags for Palin?
Schmidt’s schizophrenic changing of strategy has proven to be untenable. McCain’s mavericky shoot from the hip style hasn’t helped either. Shooting from the hip looks cool in the movies, but it plays hell with your accuracy. The article makes the entire campaign look like a bunch of amateurs who are essentially not responding to the changing realities of this election, instead choosing to run the 2000 and 2004 campaigns again.
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moe99 said on October 26, 2008 at 11:23 am
Gasman, That article conveys also how those involved in the campaign are so intellectually bankrupt–their major motivator is not any kind of overriding policy belief. It’s that they want the power. Period. Anyone who doesn’t see that by now, well…….
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basset said on October 26, 2008 at 12:18 pm
I was in one of those powdered-butt gentleman-angler flyfishing gear and expensive shotgun stores in Nashville yesterday… hey, they had a “clearance sale” sign out front, thought maybe I could pick up some Filson cheap or something… and the owner said she’s selling more handguns than ever, even to people who, in her words, didn’t know how to use them but were going to get one anyway.
that was just before, though, she started unloading on me about how Obama was going to require registration of all gun owners and impose a 500-percent excise tax.
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coozledad said on October 26, 2008 at 2:55 pm
basset: It’s my hope that these people are planning to avoid the impending Hitlerian Marxist Jewish Islamist Atheist Negro menace by splattering their own brains on the wall of the master bathroom.
The last thing anyone wants to see is a Brooks Brothers riot where the lardasses are playing with pistols.
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Gasman said on October 26, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Aside from the endorsement of Barack Obama, there were several other interesting articles on the Anchorage Daily News website (http://www.adn.com/opinion).
Andrew Halcro, a former Republican legislator who ran for governor in 2006 as an Independent has some ideas regarding Palin. His column, “A costly personal, vindictive Palin vendetta? You betcha” contains many interesting insights, not from the East Coast Media Elite, but from an Alaskan Republican (or at least former) who is familiar with Palin’s antics:
http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/560649.html
However, my favorite is “Someone give Sarah her brain back” by Elise Patkotak, a writer who lives in Anchorage. An excerpt:
“Then our governor files a complaint against herself with the Personnel Board, whose three members she personally appoints. Then she moves to dismiss it. Finally, when it seemed as though it could get no more absurd, the legislative report comes out concluding Palin broke the state ethics law and she calls that an exoneration.
“The only thing missing from this circus is a bunch of clowns exiting a small car in the center ring.
“Alaska is in danger of becoming one big national joke, the Dan Quayle of states. Someone should tell our governor that we deserve better than that. Someone should give our governor her brain back.”
http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/556250.html
Could these be disaffected liberals out to torpedo Palin? In Halcro’s case, probably not. You might say his is a case of sour grapes for losing the race for Governor to Palin, but his observations rather neatly buttress the complaints that many from the lower 48 had already duly noted.
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moe99 said on October 26, 2008 at 8:43 pm
“Quote of the Day»
Bill Kristol: “Neville Chamberlain also had a fine temperament and a good intellect.”
By the same token, I suppose, Adolf Hitler was a hothead who took on the special interests.”
via Matthew Yglesias
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Gasman said on October 26, 2008 at 10:33 pm
moe99,
Bill Kristol is certainly precious. I wonder how much he gets paid for being spectacularly wrong nearly all of the time? Precisely what did he mean by the above? Does he mean that, ergo, to avoid a reincarnation of Chamberlain that we should avoid leaders with “fine temperament and a good intellect?”
I almost to forgot to add my quote of the day, thanks for reminding me.
This one is dedicated to the McCain/Palin campaign as chronicled in the NYT Magazine article I mentioned above. It is short and to the point.
“Fools multiply folly.” – Benjamin Franklin
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Gasman said on October 27, 2008 at 1:17 am
McCain’s latest justification of Palin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA-q65xNQA8
It sounds less convincing every time he repeats it. However, now added to her list of qualifications is that her husband is a “third shift oil field worker.” Wow, I guess she really should be president.
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moe99 said on October 27, 2008 at 1:29 am
Gasman, I hope you don’t mind, but I have copied your post on the Alaska Daily News and sent it to practically everyone I know. I know, I know. I am the latest plagiarist on this blog…(vbeg)…whatever that guy’s name was. How soon we forget.
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Gasman said on October 27, 2008 at 1:30 am
moe99,
Copy away. My Mom sent it to me earlier. We can both thank her.
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on October 27, 2008 at 9:12 am
Jolene — i just got back from Kansas, and just saw the links; thank you, and they were already on my Firefox toolbar. Good sites, all, and useful. I was just intrigued by the article and the question it did raise, but clearly questioning the overwhelming victory the Dems will rack up on Nov. 4 is seen by some as either racism or instability. I expect a significant Democratic increase on Nov. 4, but i find lots of questions around polling and weighting methods that even the aggregators (sp?) aren’t answering. And in the places where i wander, i keep hearing that pollsters are getting the phone slammed on them. Folks inaccurately, but understandably, think that there’s no difference between the national media and national polling (it’s how they’re annonced, the “Media Outlet/Polling Org. Poll results say . . .”), and they’re taking their frustrations with the narrative out on polling calls.
Call me crazy, call me bigoted, but i really don’t think the poll results being announced are accurate for predicting Nov. 4. Y’all get to “nyah nyah” me and i still have to buy a round with a wry smile on my face if it’s a 14 point Obama blow-out, which we’ll know by midnight.
I’m trying to keep my calendar clear for Nov. 5, because geek that i am, i expect the Lovely Wife and me to be up well after the witching hour . . . even if i expect Obama to win.
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brian stouder said on October 27, 2008 at 9:22 am
For the record – I think the high point of the bell curve on these national polls points to maybe a 3-5 point Obama win, and not a 14 point tsunami.
I will take any win at all, but indeed if Obama wins nationally by, say, 6 points – that could easily translate into an Electoral College blowout (Nate Silver currently has it at a 6 point race with a 358-187 EC margin for Obama)
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Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on October 27, 2008 at 9:57 am
I’d guess 4 point, and 334-211 EC, but that seems about right. You could have a 2 point win by Obama and still have a relative EC blowout, but Ohio and Virginia and even PA are where i think the pollsters are going wrong with confidence. Anyhow, folks who read regularly here are probably the sort to remind — plan no 8 am meetings on Nov. 5!
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mark said on October 27, 2008 at 10:45 am
I’m probably optimistic, but if the newly discovered 2001 audio of Obama discussing the Warren Court and redistributive economics gets much play, it could make the difference in states like OH, IN and PA.
It’s hard to spin Obama’s words, since he goes into such detail and at such length. And his supporters can’t argue it’s just a “get even” redistribution following Bush’s reign, since the comments are made following eight years of Bill Clinton.
Obama really believes it is a desirable goal for government to make us equal by divvying up things according to government, rather than market, preferences.
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moe99 said on October 27, 2008 at 11:07 am
mark–I looked at the Fox news article, and read what Obama said to the radio station in 2001 and from my experience as a law student and a lawyer for 32 years, what Obama was saying was that the civil rights movement depended to heavily on the courts to make the changes in society that they wanted and the courts could not be the be all and end all for this–that the civil rights folks would have to work to change the laws to fit their agenda. It was not strictly redistribute the wealth (which the McCain campaign now seems to feel is their boogeyman ticket to victory) it was far more general than that.
But you know what, mark? The reason i believe this will not become a hot ticket item in the waning days of the campaign is that it is too comples and esoteric for the average voter to really grasp and get excited about. Now a mistress or some graft, that could be well used in a hurry.
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mark said on October 27, 2008 at 11:16 am
Well, moe, you are right. Obama’s comments (at least from the audio I have heard) do address more than the point I raised.
And perhaps it is too little, too late and too complex or nuanced. Time will shortly tell.
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Dave said on November 1, 2008 at 9:14 pm
All we need in a blood=soaked flag and a spectacle of rituous indignation, Maxine Watters flying through the hotel, and anarchists crashing the sea turtle costumed activists….
The Republicans don’t do street theater very well. But then again, Chrysler used to make good transmissions.
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