Let’s ask the group.

Brian has a question for the barflies:

Do you suppose this dog is a coyote? This picture was snapped today (by a colleague), just outside our office. She (he?) has scared away the geese that flock to the water retention pond — which is a very good thing!

Based on the photographic evidence…

…I’d say, “Almost certainly.” And a pretty healthy one, from the looks of it.

(Which reminds me of the stupidest local-TV report I’ve ever seen, which will probably remain so until I watch TV again, in which a reporter did a breathless report on a coyote captured in downtown Detroit. It came from “the wild,” the reporter said, and would be released there as well. What. A. Moron.)

Posted at 4:40 pm in Same ol' same ol' |

108 responses to “Let’s ask the group.”

  1. coozledad said on November 7, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    Damn. That thing looks huge. Our next door neighbor said he’s shot several, but I’ve never seen any. And we’ve got fifty-four sheep.
    I saw some big catlike thing at the edge of our woodlot one day, but I can’t swear it wasn’t delirium tremens.

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  2. brian stouder said on November 7, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    The photogenic dog is within about 150 yards of where my car is parked…so if you see a “news of the weird” about some hapless Hoosier getting mauled by a coyote – it could be me!

    These things aren’t nocturnal hunters, are they? Tonight is my turn to host “game night” – which we do in the conference room here at the office (think of 4 or 5 middle-aged fellows hunched over a game of 1830 or Tigris & Euphrates or Serenissima, and you have the picture!), which means we will exit this place around 11:30 tonight, and go out into the cool night air…..

    On the other hand, she (or he) just got a goose yesterday, so it shouldn’t be too hungry (one notes she doesn’t look like she’s missed many meals)

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  3. coozledad said on November 7, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    They do hunt at night. I’ve heard their high-pitched yipping in the distance.
    Our lazy ass old dogs must at least bestir themselves occasionally to run them off.

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  4. Gasman said on November 7, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    It looks bulkier and bigger than our NM coyotes, but it could a very fluffy fur coat, or maybe a dog/coyote hybrid. Head, coat, and markings appear to be mostly consistent with those of a coyote. Coyotes are common and easy to see here, and many of the locals are fairly tolerant of people. Coyotes typically don’t get bigger than around 40 lbs.

    From the Audubon “Mammals” field guide:
    ” ‘Coydogs,’ hybrids of Coyotes and domestic dogs, epsecially shepherd mixtures, are larger, usually lack dark vertical line on lower foreleg, and have relatively shorter and thicker snouts.”

    Not quite enough of the foreleg showing to check for the vertical line.

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  5. Dexter said on November 7, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    That’s the fattest coyote I have ever seen…gee…that’s gotsta be a coy-dog, right? That sumbitch is fatter than PDogg my black lab…I have found a field where I unleash my Jack Russell for a half hour…I see one of these animals around here, never again.

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  6. nancy said on November 7, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    If it’s eating geese, that would be a very solid diet for a lucky Hoosier coyote. I’d think the NM variety would necessarily be scrawnier — slimmer pickin’s. Sure looks ready for winter. And don’t fear them, Brian. They’re dogs, not werewolves. (Rabies changes the equation, however.)

    Perhaps, like many living things in the well-fed Midwest, it tends toward pudge.

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  7. Kirk said on November 7, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    I’ve never seen a coyote that un-scrawny. But then I haven’t seen a lot of coyotes.

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  8. Gasman said on November 7, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    Coyotes tend to be the pussies of the wild canine world. They would much rather run than fight. A hybrid, however, would be less predictable. As for NM coyotes, our locals have a steady diet house cats let out for the night. There’s not a house cat on the planet that is faster or stronger than a coyote. Rabies, definitely a concern, especially for one acting odd.

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  9. paddyo' said on November 7, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    Certainly the face/head/ears of a coyote. And if it’s eating geese, hey, fat is fat, babe . . . has it turned cold thereabouts? A well-fed coyote can have a very nice winter coat. (There are people who also think a well-fed coyote could MAKE a very nice winter coat, but I won’t get into that one . . . )

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  10. Catherine said on November 7, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    I saw a coyote on the next street over last week. It was a bit smaller than that one looks, but also had the glossy coat of well-fed urban wildlife. Yum, goose! They are supposed to be nocturnal, but I’ve seen them trotting down the middle of my street at noon. I like seeing them and the sense that all is not paved… but I worry about my little dog, and I’ve heard that they’ve started to hunt in packs in certain places in my area.

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  11. Gasman said on November 7, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    NEWSFLASH: The flag is down, or at least right side up. Thanks to my intrepid mom in Ft. Wayne, I can be the first to post that Townsend has folded under pressure. What kind of pressure is not clear, but apparently he made a statement to the effect that he did not mean to offend any who fought or are currently fighting under the same flag.

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  12. beb said on November 7, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Some months back my co-worker and I were driving through Belle Isle to collect some samples for work. We saw a ‘dog’ that looked somewhat like this. My co-worker thought it was a coyote. It’s amazing how much wild life has adapted to urban life.

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  13. coozledad said on November 7, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    Tom Perriello just declared victory over crazy-assed Virgil Goode. Even Southside Virginia looks to be waking up.

    The only predator we have problems with so far are foxes. Dogs don’t rattle them in the least. They’re too fast.

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  14. brian stouder said on November 7, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    Hah! Leave it to the Proprietress to point out Hossier pudge!!

    Maybe ol’ Wile E likes noodles on his mashed potatoes and gravey…what of it?!

    Yesterday, when s/he got its most recent goose, the rest of the gaggle hastily fled the scene…save one, out in the middle of the water. My understanding is that geese pair up, and if one ‘has a bad day’, the surviving member of the pair-bond feels compelled to stick around.

    The coyote patiently watched and watched from the rise, and the lonely goose stayed in the middle of the pond – ’til we all left for the day.

    Today – no geese, but (as we saw) our diner is still hovering around.

    I really (really) don’t have any love for geese, but that sight sort of struck me

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  15. MichaelG said on November 7, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    When I lived in Auburn my next door neighbor shot them now and then. I was always amazed by how big and fat and sleek they were. No starvelings there. Our property was fenced and cross fenced so we never had problems with coyotes eating chickens, etc. We did lose a couple of cats to them, at least one of which should have known better. I used to enjoy listening to them sing at night. They won’t bother you, Brian.

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  16. Jolene said on November 7, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    Check out this cool drawing. See more of the artist’s work here.

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  17. Danny said on November 7, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    By the end of his second term (I’m assuming he meets his potential), I think President Obama will have white hair too.

    Funny line from Huckabee last night. He said that given the current state of the economy, this might be the first election where the winner demands a recount.

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  18. Jolene said on November 7, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    Actually, Danny, I think he’ll have white hair well before that. He’s gotten substantially grayer just since the beginning of the campaign.

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  19. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 7, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    That is one well fed coyote; enough geese or mice or other rodents would make for a buffet-waddling Midwestern canine, but i’d guess he will look a lot thinner by March — unless the bulking up is from dog food dishes set outside, which is the real variable in coyote management in suburbia.

    I’m betting a recently returned soldier came back from Iraq or Afghanistan, saw the flipped flag, and walked in to school the poor fool.

    It’s an interesting sidelight on the modern American presidency that looking at inauguration and final term photos of each president since Carter shows a reverse Dorian Grey effect. That is one hard, grueling job, physically and spiritually — another reason why even conservatives were hesitant to vote for McCain.

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  20. Deborah said on November 7, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    We have a couple of coyote dens (is that what they’re called?) on our land in Abiquiu, NM. I am totally enthralled with them as a species. I think they have been given a bad rap in mythology, perceived as tricksters and cons. I think of them as outsiders, howling in the wilderness, full of passion for life. I am reminded of outsider artists and designers who create outside the boundaries of official culture, edgy, unconventional and limit testing. Check out the excellent web-site dailycoyote.org it will make you change your opinion about these regal beasts.

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  21. Deborah said on November 7, 2008 at 9:08 pm

    Make that http://www.dailycoyote.net

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  22. Suzi said on November 7, 2008 at 9:48 pm

    Hope there aren’t any small pets living near your office, Nancy. My brother’s cat, Binky, was eaten by a coyote in Tucson.

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  23. Dexter said on November 7, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    I read both Chicago papers and there are many stories of coyotes killing small dogs, in the city and all the suburbs…it’s just routine.

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  24. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 7, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    Don’t say killing, say “dining on modestly proportioned canines.”

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  25. Rana said on November 7, 2008 at 11:05 pm

    I’d say that’s a coyote. Probably it’s one of the Eastern ones which seem to run a bit larger than the Western variety.

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  26. LA Mary said on November 7, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    We see nice big healthy coyotes here, not far from Catherine. They eat the pet food people leave outside at night, so they get the benefits of Iams or Science Diet. They also like a housecat or miniature poodle from time to time. My dog pack is big and loud enough to discourage any sort of incursions, but I’ve seen coyotes strolling down the street in the morning, standing on a lawn across the street from my son’s high school, and scouting around the parked cars at the Greek Theatre mid afternoon.

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  27. Gasman said on November 7, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    Our coyotes are quite adept at snatching small pets. Those who leave their wee loved ones outside are sentencing them to a gruesome death. Nearly everyone in our town has coyotes on their streets or in their yards at some point. Coyotes are smart and adaptable. I would echo much of Deborah’s comments regarding coyotes. You can hear them every half hour from our backyard. Our neighbor says that there is a female that patrols our cul-de-sac each morning at about 5:30 a.m. looking for rabbits. I’ll take her word for it, as 5:30 a.m. and I are not on intimate terms. However, as of now, our rabbit population is thriving; they generally manage to evade the attempted daily culling.

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  28. MichaelG said on November 7, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    It’s interesting to hear the differences between urban and rural coyotes. Rural ones are nocturnal and secretive and the urban ones seem to be very different.

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  29. Catherine said on November 8, 2008 at 1:04 am

    And just to tie up several threads here, coyotes, NM and the late, great Tony Hillerman: My all time favorite Jim Chee/Joe Leaphorn mystery is Coyote Waits. We were listening to it on tape one night as we drove down the mountains into the desert near Big Bear, and just at the climax, a coyote ran in front of the car. I still get chills thinking about it. Coyote really does lie in wait.

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  30. Dexter said on November 8, 2008 at 2:02 am

    Bill Maher was stoned…couldn’t think of anything to say to Newark’s mayor Cory Booker…just stared blank-faced at Howie Mandel, and the off-color set-ups for Farai Chideya didn’t seg well at all….very uncomfortable.
    Joe Queenan has a lot of class and seemed bored and his funny jokes bombed as the panel didn’t seem alert enough to get it.
    Maher should let the hydroponic-grown Cali alone until after the show, and import some Kona coffee …the show’s only an hour. Last night’s show was an embarrassment.

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  31. JGW said on November 8, 2008 at 4:02 am

    Yes, it’s likely a coyote, we had them along with bears in NJ, ad they encrouached on some very suburban areas. And they really push into human territory. The cops were chasing them out of a major commuter rail corridor between two very busy stations in a place that was dense in population.

    Idiot in Decatur folded – said he was worried about his employees, one quit, 3 more were ready to. Said WANE did not get the story right – “it wasn’t JUST because Obama won,” then the Townsend guy stared his Obama wants to kill babies stuff. Was hoping to get the American legion involved but lets count this one: Democracy 1, Idiocracy 0

    My wife and I both saw a different Barack at the news conference. Listen closely to the response to the ? about the daily brief. Here’s the deal, it changes them all. Look back and see Bill post his first-brief. Barack looked older, tired (understandable) and stressed. I think reality and responsibilty steps in when they give that first brief. It gets worse shortly after they are sworn – they get the nuclear (or nuke uh ler for W) weapons primer, and the guy with the football. And for practical reasons they do this within moments of the swearing in. If I recall he gets the brief on that about 30 minutes before the biggest moment of his life, and after he walks into the White House he has another formal meeting about the transfer of codes and controls. Buzz kill!
    He only smiled about the dog, but I think he’s gonna end up pissed at the press and how they deal with “Radiance” and “Rosebud.” WHat are his and her codenames? Pretty solid bet that Michelle’s mom moves into the White House. She is a widow and spent a lot of time with the girls these past 2 years.
    Part of me sees sitcom potential. Everybody hates Barry? The MIL addition has comic potential.

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  32. nancy said on November 8, 2008 at 8:51 am

    Brian’s comment about the surviving goose spouse reminded me of this Nicholas Kristof column from last summer. It broke my heart:

    Once a month or so, we would slaughter the geese. When I was 10 years old, my job was to lock the geese in the barn and then rush and grab one. Then I would take it out and hold it by its wings on the chopping block while my Dad or someone else swung the ax.

    The 150 geese knew that something dreadful was happening and would cower in a far corner of the barn, and run away in terror as I approached. Then I would grab one and carry it away as it screeched and struggled in my arms.

    Very often, one goose would bravely step away from the panicked flock and walk tremulously toward me. It would be the mate of the one I had caught, male or female, and it would step right up to me, protesting pitifully. It would be frightened out of its wits, but still determined to stand with and comfort its lover.

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  33. coozledad said on November 8, 2008 at 9:58 am

    Nancy: We had the female of a mating pair mauled by a neighbor’s dog. He basically peeled her breast off and left her to die. Ultimately I had to euthanize her.
    The male was pathetic for months. He kept looking for her, and stayed apart from the rest of the geese. After awhile, he took up with a male gosling. As the gosling matured, they had one of those mentor-pupil relationships, with occasional sex.

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  34. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 8, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Yeah, when you hear what’s really at Area 51, and what we have to do to maintain the containment field . . . . and the REAL reason for our South Pole base . . . .

    Seriously, whatever they hear, and however they have to understand it, it must be real kick in the teeth.

    OTOH, http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/alien_extraterrestrialvisitation.htm — 😉

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  35. moe99 said on November 8, 2008 at 11:13 am

    Trooper Wooten, the former brother in law of Sarah Palin, has been removed from patrols for his own protection against Palin supporters who have threatened violence:


    Classy group.

    And Bill Ayers finally speaks up:


    I admire his restraint during the election. I think he was unfairly targeted and subject to some scurrilous abuse. Yet, I wish he had a better editor for the article.

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  36. Danny said on November 8, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    Moe, I’m not sure what an editor could have done for the article short of encouraging a total rewrite or refusing to publish it. Ayers quotes regarding his years in the WU, both written and recorded, go almost unmentioned and totally unrefuted in the article. Instead, he writes nebulously about what a crazy, mixed-up time it was and then goes on to accuse Hillary Clinton, John McCain and Sarah Palin for unfairly portraying him.

    I have no pity for him. He should have done jail time like his wife.

    And Barack Obama shouldn’t have been socially and politically mixing it up with him. Probably boils down to political expediency, but it was very poor judgment. If McCain had had similar associations with ultra-right wing militia members, you’d feel differently.

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  37. coozledad said on November 8, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Ahem: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/02/mccain-fundraiser-oversaw_n_110354.html

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  38. Danny said on November 8, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Apples and oranges (or bananas).

    Ayers was a leader in the Weather Underground and encouraged and endorsed the bombings even it he did not get his hands dirty. People died and were injured by his indirect actions and with his direct approval. He is culpable and he approves of these actions to this day.

    Lindner was CEO of Chaquita and was guilty of illegally sending funds to the AUC (and Chaquita in years past under other leadership, to other terrorist organizations of different political persuasions in different areas where they had business interests). But I can guarantee that it was not because Chaquita or Lindner were supporting violence. It was most definitely for protection money for their employees. And Lindner and other executives at Chaquita were not a leader in any of these organizations.

    I don’t know how much you know about doing business around the world, but there are some very dangerous places. In Central and South America and Northest Africa and other places, kidnappings and killings of workers for international companies are on the rise. One of my good friends at work got off a plane in Nigeria several years back. He saw the driver and armed guards holding up the sign with his name. Problem was, it wasn’t the real driver, but a replacement as the real driver had been kidnapped and his car stolen. When they got to a remote location they told him they were stopping for a piss break. They then surrounded him at gunpoint (AK-47’s) and took everything he had, including passport and the clothes on his back. He was stranded naked, but thankful for his life. Took him three days to get into the embassy.

    Now, if McCain was hanging out with the leaders of FARC or AUC, that would be a comparable situation. But he was not.

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  39. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 8, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    If anyone likes chickpeas/garbonzos, and missed this, i just made it (well, i used McCormick ground cumin and did not toast my own seeds, lazy boy), and ’tis good, ’tis good — http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/dining/031mrex.html

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  40. Danny said on November 8, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Sounds like you could mash the leftovers into a nice hummus.

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  41. coozledad said on November 8, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    So one step removed=hands clean. Even if those AKs pointed at your buddy were sold to the FARC by Lindner. Absolute hypocrisy.
    You don’t seem to understand the idea of destabilizing a country to loot its resources. Lindner was sowing destruction and chaos just like the criminals in Guatemala.
    Another flagrant case of IOKIYAAR.
    I suppose Mark Thatcher is just another nice white guy laying it all on the line for brown people, huh?

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  42. Danny said on November 8, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    It’s really more than one step removed, its a difference of intent. And hypocrisy? Hardly.

    Let me clarify. I do NOT approve of what Chaquita did. It was wrong and illegal and they were rightly prosecuted. The proper way of doing business in dangerous areas is by employing increased security. Its just the (huge) cost of doing business and the way most companies operate.

    And getting back to intent: Trying to protect one’s employees is noble, even if we know the bottomline is corporate profits (hey, altruism is sometimes just selfishness talking the long view). But destabilizing countries for the purpose looting resources? Right. That’s always the intent ‘cuz everyone knows it’s more business savvy to operate in war-torn regions. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened. It’s just a very poor business model and not preferred.

    Anyway, what Chaquita did (trying to protect employees) is a far cry from what Ayers did (trying to kill and mame people).

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  43. Danny said on November 8, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    Now I have a very long bike ride in front of me. Maybe catch you all on the flip side or tomorrow.

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  44. Danny said on November 8, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Coozeldad, one more thing and this is VERY important.

    I am on the record here as having criticized Republicans quite a bit. Bush and McCain for example. I have also commented that I am very happy that my douchebag of a congressman, Randy “Duke” Cunningham, got caught, convicted, sentenced and is currently in federal prison. I hope he does not get pardoned. I was also extremely proud of and happy for Nancy having found and exposed Tim Goeglein’s indiscretions.

    On the other hand, I have never seen you criticize one Democrat on the national stage (other than maybe Leiberman..snort). Ever. And that goes for many others here too. It really speaks volumes about your inability to be intellectually honest.

    So your comment about “another flagrant case of IOKIYAAR” is a total load of crap. You need to think about that.

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  45. moe99 said on November 8, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    There are bad Democrats just as there are good democrats. I am delighted that Rep. Mahoney (a Rahm Emanuel protege) will no longer be around. I have questions/problems w/ Emanuel and think that he’s too closely aligned with establishment Dem interests and may not be the best Chief of Staff Obama could have chosen. I don’t think anyone here is only ragging on Republicans. It’s just that they’ve been in power for quite a while and those were the go to guys if you want things done. Only thing is they only did it their way and that included cronyism and greed par excellence. Now that the Dems are in power, you may have your chance. But I will not defend law breakers no matter what party.

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  46. coozledad said on November 8, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Check my comments on Mike Easley and William Jefferson, and yes, that arse crawler Joe Lieberman.
    Then proceed to get over it.

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  47. moe99 said on November 8, 2008 at 5:11 pm


    I would guess you’re not a standard Christian, because they believe in forgiveness for sins. And since, Ayers was never convicted of anything, then you can’t go around convicting him as you are neither judge nor jury. As opposed to G. Gordon Liddy who is currently hosting folks on his radio show who are advocating armed insurrection. And don’t forget, G. Gordon Liddy is a BFF of McCain’s.

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  48. Gasman said on November 8, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    “You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” Matthew 7:5 (NIV)

    You employ glaring double standards with your guilt by association tactics. Should Walter Annenberg’s reputation be castigated by his association with William Ayers? Not exactly a bleeding heart liberal. His association was more concrete than Obama’s. How far should we extend this tactic? How about the administration and faculty at the University of Illinois at Chicago? How about anyone who ever took a class from Ayers? How about his mailman?

    Aside from Obama’s decidedly tangential intersection with Ayers, there is simply no evidence for any further connection. You, however, would demand that Obama prove that he was not associated with Ayers. You would demand that he disprove a negative. Shoddy logic and certainly not a standard that any court would adhere to. That’s not the standards we hold people to in this country. What country’s legal system are you modeling?

    How about Palin’s direct association with Pastor Thomas Muthee? If it had been Obama that had been anointed by a self proclaimed witch hunter, I can imagine what your reaction would be. How about Palin’s relationship with the Alaskan Indepenence Party? Far from being tangential, Palin’s contact is direct and well documented. From her attending various functions, her addressing the AIP convention this year, to her husband Todd’s membership in the party, she has been palin’ around with folks who think that it is legal to secede from the United States. How is that less significant than Obama serving on a board with Ayers? How about McCain’s funding of Khalid Rashidi to the tune of $450,000?

    These associations are all well documented and more directly linked to McCain or Palin than the tenuous Obama/Ayers connection. Why are these insignificant?

    You castigate others on the site for not criticizing Democrats to the same degree that you criticize Republicans as being evidence of our hypocrisy. That assumes an a priori symmetry in mendacity and corruption between to the two parties. I would posit that that assumption is wrong. The Republican Party is crumbling under the weight of its incompetency, indifference to the truth, and contempt for constitutional law. For two successive national elections, Republicans have been thoroughly rejected at the polls. A major cause for that failure is that the electorate is simply tired of the excesses of the Republicans.

    If you hadn’t gotten the memo, the Democrats received an impressive mandate again on Tuesday. Your views are decidedly in the minority, both on this site and nationally.

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  49. mark said on November 8, 2008 at 6:26 pm

    Nice looking coyote. But it looks to me like he has disproportionately benefitted from the last eight years of Republican governance. Probably a right wing coyote with major ties to the wilderness industrial complex and close alignment with the Cheney Remington cabal.

    It’s obvious this guy has been getting more than his share of typical coyote rations. If we take just a fair porion of what he forages, which is clearly more than he needs, we can spread it around to help those coyotes who are struggling. And even if taking some from this guy doesn’t actually create more coyote chow for the less fortunate, like if it turns out this guy won’t forage if he and his family don’t get the fruits of his labor, then we should still take some of what he’s got as a matter of fairness.

    What might help our chubby coyote gain a better understanding of fairness is a few hundred hours of wilderness service. Volunteering is good for the whole animal kingdom, so it is really something that all animals ought to be forced to do. This guy needs to learn that he didn’t earn his relatively high place on the food chain.

    A stint as a coyote organizer in a poor, rural coyote community is just the ticket. There are coyotes out there that lack the training and opportunity to feast on house pets and poorly secured garbage.

    And moe: “scurillous abuse” aimed at Ayres? Like what?

    Blowing up other people’s property ( and other people) does carry the risk that you might be criticized for the actions.

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  50. coozledad said on November 8, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Mark: It’s a funny habit of authoritarian cultists to adopt the nineteenth century theme of genetic superiority along with apologetics for the social framework that’s given us the drooling Bush family.
    But let me remind you about community organizing, and what it can do. It cut your fraudulent war hero off at his knees. At a single belated swipe, it reaffirmed the military verdict of 1865. Dumb racist fucks at the back of the line, please.
    If you’ve got to keep hating, well, fucking hate. Don’t bust your ass trying to disguise it in these lame post-Wallace constructions.

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  51. Gasman said on November 8, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Ayers’ involvement in the Weather Underground was certainly extremist. However, he had his day in court and cannot be held responsible for the ineptitude of John Mitchell and Mark Felts. Charges against him were dropped at the government’s request.

    Are you implying that he should be hounded indefinitely because you disagree with the decision to drop charges? If the government saw fit to end its pursuit of Ayers, why is it appropriate to brand with a scarlet letter all those who have associated with Ayers since then? You would hold Obama to a higher standard – guilt by association – than the government held Ayers to. Where is the justice in that logic?

    Point of fact: there is no record of anyone being harmed by any of Ayers’ bombings and he was not charged with harming anyone. I don’t advocate his tactics, but if you are going to hurl accusations, you might want to get your facts straight.

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  52. coozledad said on November 8, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    And I’ll be goddamned if I’m done with you under the table Christian identity supporters who wish that Sarah Palin could somehow donate you a personal post campaign pity fuck. The Idaho umbrella organizations that kept her pornstache husband out of white-trash bankruptcy were the same ones that funded your boy. Your boy. I suppose you don’t know who I mean. McVeigh. McVeigh. McVeigh.
    Goodnight and fuck you.

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  53. moe99 said on November 8, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    mark and Danny:
    Ayers showed remarkable restraint during the campaign in not responding to the vicious daily attacks that went on against him and subjected him to phone and other threats of bodily abuse and murder. I think that’s pretty damn remarkable. If you were targetted with the same, intense, irrational hatred, I would think you would respond just as you do here; loudly and profanely. Ayers did nothing of the sort, nor is his listed response hostile, it is more rueful in nature.

    That chapter in his and our collective lives is over and done with. Quit trying to relive it. And quit trying to say your view of that portion of our history is the only way to see it. It is not and you are exposed for your narrow mindedness when you attempt to do so.

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  54. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 8, 2008 at 8:56 pm


    Actually, i made hummus out of the leftovers after all. Plus used the last of the fresh pesto from the fridge with chicken breasts. (Pesto i froze doesn’t count as “fresh”, but will be much appreciated in January.)

    I’m unclear just how proud of the Obama family and the national dialogue i have to be in order to not be a dumb racist fuck. But scanning http://www.zefrank.com/from52to48withlove makes me hopeful in a way this thread ain’t doin’ for me.

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  55. moe99 said on November 8, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    Obama roasts Rahm Emanuel back in 2005:


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  56. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 8, 2008 at 10:07 pm

    Moe, Rahm is a centrist pick — there are more than a few R’s who get that! If he keeps Gates and taps Summers for Treasury, i’m vastly encouraged. Meanwhile, for my sins, Obama is pushing a major AmeriCorps increase, and i’m sitting on one of biggest AmeriCorps programs in our state.

    God is an iron. (See Spider Robinson for details.)

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  57. Jolene said on November 8, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    Here are links to some interesting maps of the election results. They show what creative people can do with data and give a much subtler and more interesting view of the results than the standard red/blue map.

    Cartograms by U of Michigan physics professor, Mark Newman.

    Cartograms that go back to 1964.

    An interactive map from the NYTimes that shows how results differed from 2004.

    Results by county, including in 3-D from the WaPo.

    A bit after the fact, but still fun to see the details, especially the cartograms and the change over time images.

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  58. coozledad said on November 8, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    God is an ironing board.
    God is a white sport coat and a pink carnation.
    God is a concept by which we measure our pain.
    “I don’t believe in Democracy” he said. “It’s man-made.You’re talking about a government that taxes its people to death. It oppresses many millions of people in the world. It wouldn’t be such a shame to have them overturned.”
    Richard Watson: a young , libertarian, Islamist prick.
    Who does this little bitch sound like to you?

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  59. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 8, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    Or a white sport coat and a pink crustacean! (I wish i had a pencil thin mustache . . .)

    Come Monday, it’ll be alright.

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  60. Gasman said on November 8, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    What is the justification for the seemingly bizarre wave of irrational fear and hatred following Obama’s victory? A second instance in Fort Wayne of an upside down flag in protest. In protest to what? A free and fair legitimate election? It would have made more sense in 2000, but in response to what outrage? Simply the will of the American people? Increased gun sales, for what reason?

    Obama has done nothing, indeed has not had the opportunity to do anything to inspire the rage and venom that the narrowest of minds have exhibited. It reminds me of the response of the Southerners who chose to secede from the Union because the nation had the audacity to elect Abraham Lincoln. Many states chose that precipitous course before Lincoln was sworn in as president, so it could not possibly have been in response to anything he had actually done. So it goes for the today’s protesters. They are outraged because our constitution is intact? Because the majority of voters decided that we should chart a different course?

    That is not an expression of patriotism, it is cowardice, fear, and ignorance in action. Take offense if you will, but charges of socialism, Marxism, palin’ around with terrorists, and questioning Obama’s patriotism are nothing more than thinly veiled racism from cowards who know that openly racist statements will be smacked down. There is not a shred of evidence to support any of these irrational charges, and not one, not one of them has been leveled at Joe Biden. The biggest difference? Race.

    If you have legitimate policy differences with President Elect Barack Obama, by all means, make them known. I do, and will be glad to share them with you. Do not, however, continue to sling turds over the transom; these scurrilous, baseless, rumor based bullshit attacks that have zero basis in demonstrable fact.

    If you cannot buttress your allegations and arguments with clear factual citations, it is most likely because you know that you cannot. I am quite certain that there will be a continuous flow of such rhetorical sewage from the predictable sources, but do not think that venom and amplitude are substitutes for reason, logic, and truth.

    These continuations of the now repudiated smear tactics of the Republican slime machine are pathetic examples of the vacuity of your discredited positions and failed candidates.

    The American people have fairly and justly spoken. Be adults and accept that and give our newly elected president a chance to perform before you bitch and moan.

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  61. Catherine said on November 8, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    Jeff, thank you for the link. I’ve spammed everyone with it, especially my DH. My favorite was the one with the verse from John. And, go Americorps!

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  62. Jolene said on November 8, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    In another follow-up to the events of Tuesday night, the Post’s Pulitzer Prize-winning fashion critic, Robin Givhan, has commented on the dress Michelle Obama wore at the Grant Park celebration, as well as, somewhat obliquely, on the idea of having the family wear thematically matched clothes. The article is interesting because Givhan is usually piercing, but she’s fairly gentle in this piece. Apparently, there’s been lots of criticism of Michelle’s dress in the blogosphere. Even Gene Weingarten has weighed in.

    What did you all think—about the dress and/or the comments on the dress?

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  63. Catherine said on November 8, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    I went to an event this afternoon and had to listen to a bunch of 50-something female Obama supporters bag on the dress. For heaven’s sake, HE WON, the woman is stunning, the children are adorable and show every indication of turning out as well as Chelsea Clinton, let’s give it a REST!

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  64. Dexter said on November 9, 2008 at 12:42 am

    Catherine…I was totally moved by the end of this campaign and the way it ended, including the Obama family, I mean…yabbott….

    …that DRESS !!!!

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  65. Dexter said on November 9, 2008 at 12:55 am

    Gasman…If you can stand it, all you have to do is listen to bigots like Mike McConnell and Willy Cunningham on WLW , AM 700, Cincinnati, to get a feel for the garbage that will assault our eardrums all through Obama’s presidency. Cunningham was the one who keep braying Barack HUSSEIN … so much that even McCain told him to shut TFU.
    If you have satellite radio, listen to Anthony Cumia of Opie and Anthony some morning…he is totally crazy paranoid that Obama will sieze his guns and African Americans will “take to the streets.”
    I never thought Obama and the hopefully-unified Democratic Party would get a break from the right wingers on the radio, but we have Air America , specifically America Left , with hosts like Randi Rhodes to sort of balance it out.
    There has never been a bullshit-destroyer like Randi Rhodes.
    She is on America Left in the late afternoons after Ed Schultz.
    She has the facts, for sure.

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  66. mark said on November 9, 2008 at 5:24 am


    I can honestly say that until reading your post and the links therein I had not given any thought at all to M. Obama’s dress. What is it that causes women (not necessarily you) to spend so much time worrying about what other women wear?

    I can’t recall ever having a conversation with a man about what a third man wore. I have some concerns about the new administration, but how the first family dresses isn’t one of them. Obama is already on record as being against the pants falling down look- and I appreciate his stance. M. Obama sems to be a pretty capable lady and I’m sure she can handle dressing herself and the children.

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  67. mark said on November 9, 2008 at 5:33 am


    kudos on being the first to accuse me of being profane. I’m tempted to point out that I don’t much use profanity, but it would be narrow-minded of me to bring out my understanding of my historical use of profanity without being open to your understanding of that history.

    But isn’t it inappropriate for you to accuse me of being profane without my ever having been convicted of being profane?

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  68. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 9, 2008 at 8:41 am

    Opie and Anthony are voices for modern American conservatism? The guys who paid a couple to have sex in St. Patrick’s Cathedral during mass to see if they’d be struck by lightning, that Opie and Anthony (they got struck by the FCC, actually, and the couple has other things to worry about that celestial electricity, it turned out)? I’m sure their show is off this week since they’d be guest speakers on the National Review post-election cruise.

    Which reminds me — RIP John Leonard, who really did work for NR and WFB in his younger days, and was a monthly anticipation in the back of Harper’s for his book review/essay. He was always interesting on CBS Sunday Morning, which was why i bought my first VHS to tape every week so i could FF to Leonard after church, and then zip back to the top of the show to pick my way through what i had time for.

    But John Leonard always came first.

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  69. moe99 said on November 9, 2008 at 9:44 am

    wrt the dress, I was watching the victory speech with my 90 year old neighbor and we both noticed it, but she was the first to say something. I think that it probably looked fine in person, but tv exaggerates or emphasizes points that one would not notice in real life–people look fatter, etc. As it was, Maggie said briefly that it wasn’t the most attractive dress she could have chosen, I agreed and that was that. It seems to me, that Michelle Obama makes all her own choices wrt clothes. Which, after l’affaire Palin, is truly refreshing.

    ps: if you wanna see some sore losers, Roy at alicublog has a bunch.


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  70. Rana said on November 9, 2008 at 10:10 am

    What is it that causes women (not necessarily you) to spend so much time worrying about what other women wear?

    I think it’s learned habit. Since there isn’t really a woman’s equivalent of the plain navy suit, you have to make up each outfit as you go, knowing that if you wear the same thing a few days in a row, people will think of you as slovenly and unprofessional, or poor and inconsequential.

    So you get used to eying your own appearance with a critical eye (not to mention there are bazillions of shows out there about how important it is for women to dress correctly – What Not to Wear, for example – and all of the fashion magazines which look like they’re offering clothing but which really are offering you the chance to critique other women’s appearance), and from there, to turn it on other women. Indeed, criticizing other women’s clothing choices is part of the appeal of such things, and we are taught such habits from childhood on.

    In short, women are obsessed by their own clothing and the clothing of others because society trains them to be so, and punishes those who don’t at least pretend to care.

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  71. Gasman said on November 9, 2008 at 10:20 am

    As to the l’affaire Palin vs. Michele Obama’s dress, note that nobody is complaining because Michele Obama did not spend less than $5,000 for her outfits. The complaints about MO’s dress are aesthetic.

    The revelation that Palin spent closer to $200,000 for the sartorial splendor of the Palin clan is obscene. At that figure, what she spent on clothes, jewelry, luggage, and designer goods far exceeds the average income of even upper middle class Americans and is probably in excess of the value of the average home in foreclosure. But she is just an average hockey mom.

    I was stunned to hear that allegedly Todd Palin spent $40,000 on his new wardrobe. How in the hell can you spend $40,000 on clothes that you have to haul around? Remember, he achieved this feat while on a massive road trip. You can get the finest of suits for $2K or less. How many did he buy? Maybe the whole clan got different Rolexes for each day of the week.

    Wasilla hillbillies indeed.

    Oh, as to JTP, it turns out that Joe has been on public assistance TWICE! How’s that for being indignant about redistributing the wealth. He says that he was a deserving candidate, however, because he’s paid into the system. It must have slipped Joe’s mind that he still owes the State of Ohio back taxes. Joe the Hypocrite.

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  72. Jolene said on November 9, 2008 at 10:54 am

    Rana makes an important point. The reason we don’t comment on men’s clothes to the extent we do on women’s clothes is the narrow range of possibilities. The professionally dressed male wears a dark suit, a white or light-colored shirt, and a silk tie. The variations are in cut and quality of fabric. That’s about it.

    For women, the range of choices is huge, and the possibility for error—in fit to the body or to the occasion—is likewise enormous. It’s nice, I guess, that Michelle Obama makes her own fashion choices, but I actually think she could use a little advice. Much of the time, she looks smashing, but she doesn’t seem to understand how to emphasize her considerable assets and de-emphasize her less appealing features. In this photoessay, you can see that there’s quite a lot of variation in how sharp she looks—or, at least, so it seems to me.

    I don’t mean to be mean or catty in bringing up this topic. I did have an immediate negative reaction when I saw the dress she was wearing on Tuesday night, but, mainly, I thought it was interesting that so many people were weighing in on the topic. If you search “michelle obama dress grant park”, you’ll see that people all over the world have commented on the dress.

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  73. Danny said on November 9, 2008 at 11:11 am

    Yeah, Jolene, my wife also had an immediate negative reaction on the dress.

    That chapter in his and our collective lives is over and done with. Quit trying to relive it. And quit trying to say your view of that portion of our history is the only way to see it. It is not and you are exposed for your narrow mindedness when you attempt to do so.

    Moe, you brought up Ayers, not me. It’s hard to reconcile your sudden calls for forgiveness and open-mindedness with his relatively recent statements that he doesn’t regret what he did and wishes he had bombed more and caused more harm. Doesn’t sound to me like he wants you to forgive him. Odd. Oh, well. I’m happy to drop it. Just don’t bring it up anymore if you don’t want to talk about it,’k? And if you want to talk about living in the past, check out gasbag’s posts regarding Joe the Plumber and Palin’s wardrobe.

    I’m unclear just how proud of the Obama family and the national dialogue i have to be in order to not be a dumb racist fuck.

    Jeff, I too am unclear on this account. How many times must I write that I am impressed by Obama and think that he has the potential to be a great president before I am considered to have a reasonable opinion. One mildly disapproving comment on my disappointment with associations of political expediency seems to unhinge a lot of folks around here. Weird it is.

    I’m glad I called the hummus!

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  74. moe99 said on November 9, 2008 at 11:50 am


    Ayers never said he wished he’d bombed more. All he said is that he wished he’d done more to end the VN war. It’s you and your like minded compatriots who have exaggerated that. I double dog dare you to produced an attributed and sourced quote that says that he wished he’d bombed more.

    I posted a link to his letter, because although I thought it was badly written, I admired his restraint during the campaign. You jumped all over it and I was responding to your ill considered comments.

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  75. Gasman said on November 9, 2008 at 11:55 am

    “And if you want to talk about living in the past….”

    I guess all of your sniping about Ayers, for months, was not living in the past, even after that nonsense had been thoroughly discredited.

    As for JTP, I’d be glad to consign Joe to the dustbin of history. The reason I brought him up was the revelation this week – not from him, of course – that he has been a recipient of public assistance. You don’t see the irony in that?

    As for l’affaire Palin, she and the McCain campaign – surprise, surprise – did not disclose the obscene extent of her shopping spree. That nugget was also revealed just within the week. Hardly ancient history. You also don’t seem to see anything wrong with her spending so much on such frivolity. The issue to me is somewhat less the amount spent than the fact that she, McCain, and the RNC have been deceptive as to the actual tally for her shopping spree. If it was all innocent, as claimed, why the need for obfuscation?

    As to the Ayers incident, each time you mention Ayers and Obama in the same breath, you blithely ignore all of the troubling associations with McCain and Palin that I chronicled earlier in the thread. Why? Once again, you dismissively ignore pointed examples of this hypocritical omission.

    Honestly, debating with you is extremely unchallenging; you sidestep each and every point and go right for dripping condescension and tantrums. You seem to have strong feelings, but seem to be unwilling or unable to give them voice in anything but the most confrontational and strident manner. I’d really would like to see a well reasoned post from you to better understand your ideas and positions. Right now, all I get is that you are angry and that you have little respect for myself and many others on this site.

    I’ve genuinely tried to engage you in some sort of dialogue, but you seem to be strongly adverse to any such debate. I’ve got sharp elbows, even in print. I get that. However, I do respect opposing views if they are presented respectfully, well reasoned, and devoid of ad hominems. I would really look forward to such an exchange from you.

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  76. coozledad said on November 9, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    Here’s a little “Republican restraint” for you. Our local paper refused to put Obama’s picture on the front page the day after the election. Republican newspaper heir Brinn Wilkins said it was not the duty of his paper to report national news. It is curiously, the duty of his paper to print the views of nationally syndicated right wing sacks o’ guts.
    And more Republican civility: A Republican member of the board of elections approached me and another Obama volunteer as we were handing out sample ballots. We had to, after we discovered election staffers were telling voters they did not have to vote separately for president if they voted straight party. They disenfranchised quite a few voters this way. This official tried to tell us we were in violation of the law if the sample ballots didn’t indicate they were paid for by the Obama campaign. Well, they weren’t. We printed them on our home printers with our paper and our cartridges. He then asked who we were working for. The woman I was working with pulled out an 8×10 glossy of her daughter, wounded in Iraq after her convoy struck a series of IED’s. The kid’s face was ripped pretty badly by shrapnel.
    “This is who I’m working for.” She said. “And when my baby was in a hospital in Germany they wouldn’t even give her an absentee ballot to vote in the 2004 election.”
    Republican election-fixer turned away in shame. Or more likely, selfish adolescent embarrassment.

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  77. Dexter said on November 9, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    Gordon Brown as well as The Economist staff member who was on C-SPAN today both called our President-elect “BAIR-uck”.
    That reminded me of their pronunciation of garage .(GAIR-udge)
    I think I like BAIR-uck better than buh-RAHK.
    It was said today that Gordon Brown wants to be the Barack Obama of GB…a hard thing to pull off as he came from the ruling party to start with.
    Jeff…I was a huge fan of John Leonard also. If Leonard gave a TV show or movie a good rap…I would check it out. He “turned me on” to such diverse shows as “Cop Rock” (very camp…and a complete bomb!) and NYPD Blue…but especially Six Feet Under. That show premiered the Sunday after my dad died in March of 2001. For the cable-less, it was a show about the life of a family who ran a Los Angeles funeral home. The way the show dealt with death really helped me deal with my own parents’ deaths, and the HBO community posting boards led to several friendships. Oh well, I am just saying that without John Leonard’s rave review of the pilot, I would not have watched it. And while we’re on the subject of SMNews, CBS, it is time for Charles Osgood to hang it up. Have you noticed how the show gets worse every week? Now it is nearly unwatchable. Charles Kuralt was a treasufe, but he has been gone many years. (Lupus).
    They should have buried his show with him. NEVER has anyone “mailed it in” like Charles Osgood does every week.

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  78. jcburns said on November 9, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    One more report from the red state of Georgia to go with some of that Fort Wayne-area jerkitude: Pooler Pediatrics Doctor Resigns After Writing “War Declared” Memo…”Since slackers have declared war on me by electing evil incarnate as president…” Yeeeeeeeesh.

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  79. MichaelG said on November 9, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Several months ago I made a remark about one of Senator Clinton’s pant suits. Nancy called me on it and added some explanation of the difficulties of dressing for women in the public eye. It doesn’t pain me to admit she was correct. I also noted that I didn’t have any particular objection to the Rs buying some threads for Gov. Palin. I still don’t. The objection is to the abuse of the benefit and excesses that followed. I also figured that campaign funds probably furnished some clothes for the Obamas. So what? It’s a legitimate expense. I saw Ms. Obama’s dress the other night and didn’t particularly care for it but I figured that that was a reflection of my taste and besides, it was just a dress. Next time she’ll wear something else. The slide show link that Jolene posted shows, I believe, that Ms. Obama generally dresses very well. I think we all have greater concerns for the future than what Ms. Obama decides to wear on a given occasion. She’ll manage just fine.

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  80. joodyb said on November 9, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    a great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
    – william james

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  81. Jolene said on November 9, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Dexter, some of the people who knew Obama’s father during the time he studied in Hawaii have referred to him as BAIR-ick, so there’s precedent for Brown’s pronunciation.

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  82. Gasman said on November 9, 2008 at 4:41 pm

    An excellent illustration of the fact that education does not necessarily eradicate ignorance. Dr. Karen Kim’s bizarre letter goes on after you drop the quote:

    “…and guaranteeing that our business will never again expand, I will respond by declaring my own war on slackers.”

    What is this “guarantee” that her “ business will never again expand?”

    Precisely what has President Elect Obama done or said that would lead to this kind of rabidly delusional outburst?

    Her next twelve sentences make it clear that her real beef is with her perception of some of her employees’ performance, not really Obama’s election. However, she concludes her thoughtful tome thusly:

    “Maybe you can sit at home and wait for Obama’s annual pay out. Maybe you should have worked a little harder at work, maybe a little harder in school too.”

    That is a well reasoned response to the workings of our constitutional democracy how? This type of irrationality is becoming almost commonplace among the right. Not too good for recruiting anyone in the middle to your side, folks.

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  83. Suzi said on November 9, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    Dr. Kim resigned after apologizing for her grumpy note, she has 7 kids, too. Wonder how big a racist she is.

    More about our next First Lady’s red dress below – I liked the drama of the red dress in the stage lighting, but it would not look right on most women I’m guessing –

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  84. caliban said on November 9, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Thar’s a very handsome German Shepherd. Wonderful dogs but kind of strange, and the dog in that picture has 40 lbs. on any coyote. There was a shepherd in our Pulte subdivision, Lamplighter Lane in Bloomfield hills when Swuirrel Road was dirt with a waste oil makeover. Something between 18 and 21 mile tan the other way. We went to Saint Hugo’s with vicious Sisters of Saint Joseph, and Groves and UDHigh and Brother Rice for High School. Every dad in our neighborhood was a J. Walter madman, or a doctor, or a Chevy or Ford thrall.

    For some reason, there was natural enmity between my collie Sandy and this dog Duke. Fortunately, Sandy was huge for a collie, probably 80 lbs. and perfect tri-color. They staged horrific battles, but they’d stop fighting if a kid was endangered. After awhile, they got along. They protected kids liable to run into the street after fly balls, when drunken and drugged mindless driving was endemic to such a neighborhood. I mean dogs taking down kids in the ubiquitous drainage ditches in the face of implacable, speeding Detroit rolling iron (as Stephen King puts it).

    If there are coyotes, I say they’re gorgeous animals, superb bloodlines, and remarkably adapted, and who put them in the suburbs in the first place? If the problem is preying on household pets, the cockapoo and the bichon frise seem bred to be victims, and I’ve had quite a few cats no canine would ever put a glove on.

    When a redwood mansion burns down, how is it possible people don’t understand it was built where it should not have been? If there are fires that shouldn’t have happened, mindless humans were the incendiary agents. Why are there possums on the half-shell all over I-95? If armadillos walk to Georgia, this has more to do with unregenerate nouveau bullshit than anything in the natural world.

    Bears and wolves, sharks. They belong in the natural world. Sometimes things happen. People choose to kill other species. This is not reallly defensible unless they mean it for sustenance. Shooting eagles and wolves from helicopters, that’s not remotely excusable. Niggling and lame economic revenge, you assholes.

    JoodyB. I’m a fan of William James. In my family, I’m probably the William as opposed to a couple of brothers that sound more like Henry. Well, there’s transcendentalism and there’s realism. For style and plot, Henry rules. Daisy Miller is more or less perfect. William seems to have gotten a grasp on Dante and William Blake. But it seems like the Blake renderings. Brilliant as they are. You can insist on reality all you want. Creation is God becoming God. If you don’t deny God, it’s a fact.

    I know people think that’s ridiculous. I believe
    god created God becoming
    God. If you believe God doesn’t exist, you think that’s idiotic. It makes a great deal of sense to me. The guy that thought of this wasn’t some whackjob. He was Pierre Theillard de Chardin. He was brilliant. He was the most brilliant scientist of the last century.

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  85. Suzi said on November 9, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    Jeff, have you been tuning in to Coast to Coast in the wee hours of the night?

    “Yeah, when you hear what’s really at Area 51, and what we have to do to maintain the containment field . . . . and the REAL reason for our South Pole base . . . .”

    Might be some coyotes out there watching the black helicopters circle over Pahrump.

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  86. caliban said on November 9, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    That’s not a coyote. Coyote ought to be running free.

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  87. Catherine said on November 9, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    Back to the topic of urban wildlife for a moment: Police recently killed a mountain lion in my neighborhood. You can see the picture here: http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_10922636
    The photo reminds me of a Dutch still life somehow. It made me so sad that such a strong, fierce, beautiful animal was shot down. But then so did the story of the family who lost their dog to this mountain lion. I don’t really know what the answer to this is… keep your dogs inside? Stop leaving dog food outside? Stop building up to the very edge of the national forest?

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  88. nancy said on November 9, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    I vote for No. 3, Catherine.

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  89. Linda said on November 9, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Re: Dr. Kim. There seems to be a thread running through conservative/Republican America that takes the election of Obama as a personal affront, and a burden upon talented, hardworking people, who they assume to be made up entirely of conservative Republicans. Dr. Helen (Instapundit’s wife) intimated the same thing in her blog, in which she suggested that ticked-off conservatives should “Galt” the rest of the country by withholding their wonderful, useful work. (The term “Galt” taken from John Galt, the hero of “Atlas Shrugged,” the Ayn Rand novel where talented people withhold their wonderfulness from society as a punishment for not being appreciated/adequately rewarded).

    This assumes that poor people are nonproductive or nonworkers. I submit that someone living near the poverty level while stocking underwear at Walmarts is at least as productive as Mr. and Mrs. Instapundit. If not more.

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  90. nancy said on November 9, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    I think, if the Instapundits deprived the world of their law-professing, psychotherapy and documentary-filmmaking, the world would scarce notice. Although the very fact they think they’re that special says an awful lot about them both, eh?

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  91. Dexter said on November 9, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    My TV really didn’t show the design of Mrs. O’s dress…my TV made it look bad. However, seen in clarity, it isn’t bad at all.
    My final contribution to this topic: clear photographic evidence:


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  92. caliban said on November 9, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    Urban wildlife? These animals belong where they end up. You have Hines Ward in the NFL game. He’s the best player in the NFL. You nail anybody that comes near you. How you play football. Whine about that, you’re a weenie. Two best quarterbacks, no doubt. Serious football. Pats don’t play this. Real deal.

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  93. caliban said on November 9, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    Urban wildlife? These animals belong where they end up. You have Hines Ward in the NFL game. He’s the best player in the NFL. You nail anybody that comes near you. How you play football. Whine about that, you’re a weenie. Two best quarterbacks, no doubt. Serious football. Pats don’t play this. Real deal.

    Hines Ward is the best football player on the face of the earth. These dickheads can claim he shouldn’t nail morons that don’t pay attention.

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  94. Rana said on November 9, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    the cockapoo and the bichon frise seem bred to be victims

    My theory about small dogs’ feisty nature and lack of sense when it comes to animals larger than themselves is that they still think of themselves as wolves – that is, top-level predators – instead of the small, potential-prey carnivores that they are.

    Compare the behavior of a typical small dog with a cat when confronted with a large dog, for example – they either want to play with it or attack it. Most cats, being not that far removed from their wildcat ancestors, know that although they can take out a rabbit, it doesn’t mean that they can’t be eaten in turn by a coyote or wolf or cougar – and so cats tend to flee or go into defense mode.

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  95. caliban said on November 9, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    Rana, yo’ure nuts. Little dogs are just too stupid. They’re inexcusable little pieces of shit and they get eaten. They aren’t real dogs. They’re put in an exceptionally bad situation by assholes that don’t care about dogs. What is wrong with assholes that do this sort of thing to midget dogs?

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  96. brian stouder said on November 9, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    I gotta say – caliban, you got me laughing so much on that last post (“They’re inexcusable little pieces of shit and they get eaten“) that Pam (in the next room) asked what the hell was so funny!

    Anyway – Dexter – thanks for the photo stream of the First Family-elect; marvelous stuff.

    The pics of President-elect and Mrs Obama watching the returns on TV just reinforce one immutable fact: Michelle is HOT!

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  97. Gasman said on November 9, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    Los Alamos, NM is built on a series of parallel mesas. Think of your hand with the fingers spread apart. The canyons between the mesas are chock full of all sorts of wildlife; coyotes, mule deer, bears, cougars, wildcats, coons, ringtails, rattle snakes, and more. The elk usually come down out of the mountains. We are constantly told not to leave out pets, dog or cat food, or bird seed at this time of year. Bears are fattening up before hibernation and like nothing better than finishing off your birdseed.

    Mountain lions are fairly rare, though our local wildlife experts say there are two locals lurking about.

    I’ve only seen one bear in the 6 years we’ve been here, but an acquaintance had a bear tear down her apricot tree, after eating every apricot, thank you very much. The bear then broke in through her kitchen window and polished off a chocolate cake cooling on the counter. She heard the commotion, went down stairs, screamed, peed her pants, ran upstairs and locked herself, her grandkids, and her cat in her bedroom. By the time the cops arrived, the bear had seen himself out.

    However, most wildlife/human intersections are not that dramatic. I am amazed how few elk, mule deer, pronghorns, and coyotes get hit by cars here. They seem to have developed an awareness of cars to a greater degree than their Midwestern and Eastern cousins.

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  98. Jolene said on November 9, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    Yes, great photos, Dexter. Thanks for the link. One more detail re the First Family’s election night clothes: Although reaction to Michelle’s dress was mixed, there was so much demand for Malia’s dress that the manufacturer is making more. The reissue will be on the racks in time for Christmas. Just the thing for Chloe, Kate, and any other little princesses out there.

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  99. Julie Robinson said on November 9, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    $110 is a bit steep for a little girl’s dress, but I’m all for the return of dressing them like princesses instead of the current trend of dressing them like prostitutes. Malia’s dress would have met the approval of our Sarah a few years back, who declared that all such dresses must be “twirly”.

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  100. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 9, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    Suzi — if i’m driving to a hospital at 2 am, my choices are CCM or Coast to Coast, and i listen to enough CCM during the day alternating with NPR, so George or Art or whomever hosts these days gets my ears for the thirty minutes in, thirty minutes out.

    Happens less often the last few years than before as a parish pastor, but often enough that i can keep up with breaking news re: Dec. 2012. (N.B. — if you like Coast to Coast type stuff, you know you won’t be buying green bananas in Nov./early Dec. of 2012.)

    I’m still wrapping my head around Opie and Anthony as conservative spokespersons; maybe they were playing the Charles Gray role in the Sarah Palin lookalike movie.

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  101. Suzi said on November 9, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    Jeff, I have in-laws in Nevada — Art Bell’s home, Pahrump, so had to razz you about the Area 51 comment. I’m fascinated by the callers to Coast to Coast — all the bigfoot and saucer sightings, and yeah, the 2012 stuff. So sounds like good listening for staying awake whilst cruising the late night highways.

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  102. Suzi said on November 9, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    Did she or didn’t she?

    “Silk boxer shorts, spray tanners, 13 suitcases and custom designed underpinnings . . .”


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  103. Dexter said on November 10, 2008 at 1:46 am

    Jeff…O & A are on terrestrial/satellite combo 6-9 and satellite only , 9-noon.
    I am not a devotee because many of their wild stunts and topics are just too grossly disgusting.
    They make a lot of money and were staunch McCain supporters because of perceived tax brackets and especially guns, as I previously posted.
    They also were vehemently against a person of color taking The White House.
    Anthony was called a racist by the producer of the show that follows, The Ron and Fez Show, XM 202-Sirius 197. The producer is an African American named Earl Douglas. Anthony went into a fit , denying he is a racist.
    You can label O and A any way you want,what they are are rich men with a wild show featuring many sex jokes and anecdotes , very ribald jokes, and racist outlooks on Black people.

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  104. caliban said on November 10, 2008 at 8:12 am

    HW left Clinton with Somalia, on purpose and spitefully, and uncaring of human reality, death and destruction. Born to the manor, privileged, rich by inheritance from dealing with the Third Reich, who were these interlopers to replace Quaker Oats as First Lady?

    Here‘s what W has delivered surreptitiously, possibly with no clue, to mess up his predecessor. This is purely a case of taking advantage of a bad situation to make things worse for American taxpayers and better for bankers.

    This is pretty clearly Paulson giving banks license to steal money from taxpayers. Paulson and the banks surely benefit. How does anybody else? Nominally, our entire financial future rests in Wachovia, and nobody at corporate has had the decency to contact us about Wells Fargo taking over and what that might mean to our investments. We’re supposed to be happy our checking and credit card accounts still work, I guess.

    “It’s just like after September 11. Back then no one wanted to be seen as not patriotic, and now no one wants to be seen as not doing all they can to save the financial system,” said Lee A. Sheppard, a tax attorney who is a contributing editor at the trade publication Tax Analysts. “We’re left now with congressional Democrats that have spines like overcooked spaghetti. So who is going to stop the Treasury secretary from doing whatever he wants?”

    Uh, the President that employs him, you ahole? Mr. Signing Statement. Yeah, right. Sounds like a Banana Republic to me.

    On another subject, why are DJs a topic of conversation when there’s Songza? DJs used to be clever, like Charles Laquidara, or friends that introduced you to music you might like. Now it’s Lex and Terry and Twins I’d like to have sex with. This is Dumbing Down. This is Hillbilly Heroin Rush Culture. This is Jim Rome pretending to be a black athlete when he was punked by a seriously good football player he called Chris Chandelier. Republicanism. Family Values promoted by perverse, incourteous speech and behavior. There are three DJs worth listening to: Miami Steve, Bob Dylan and Dee Snyder.

    I guess if I have a point about ratdogs, it’s that why did people do that to dogs? Knowing about genetics and perverting other species seems like an unrepentable and unforgivable sin. If a cockapoo is a reality, I like it inherently. Hardly ever met a dog I didn’t. I don’t want it eaten by a coyote. But a coyote’s got to eat. And they were here first.Far as cats are concerned, I think cats inflict unspeakable oain on th noses and ears of canines, leading to retreat, and salvation. Any cat worth its salt. One way or another, humans ought to be smart enough to figure they take risks when they invade on nature.

    Chimps have opposable thumbs. Humans claim superiority by possessing reasoning abilities. Yet, we still allow our votes to be stolen. And rats reason. Smartest Monkeys? Maybe. Maybe not.

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  105. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 10, 2008 at 8:58 am

    O&A were McCain supporters? OK, every train has a caboose, i guess. I’ve never heard them, only heard about them, and they seem to range from appalling to absurd, with occasional buffoonery, which would allow them the gamut of A to B. But i have friends who can’t stand Garrison Keillor’s voice, let alone the stories, who say he’s unbearably twee and how can you listen to that stuff? De gustibus, non disputandum.

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  106. brian stouder said on November 10, 2008 at 9:32 am

    I have zero problem with yappers on satellite radio who are rude, racist, childish, mean, disagreeable, ignorant, misinformed, unfair, small-minded, prurient, vulgar, dishonest, misogynistic, etcetera, etcetera.

    I reserve all my righteous indignation for the yappers who presume to have a RIGHT to make their personal fortunes on the free public airwaves trafficking all that same dreck; people who proclaim the absolutely indispensible nature of their own freedom from government regulation (equal time), even as their industry only exists in a coherent form (strictly regulated frequency allocation and signal strength) thanks to the Federal Communications Commission – ie – “guhvmint intrusion”.

    These hateful ideological crack dealers that currently work their corners on the public airwaves should join the panty-sniffers, shock jocks, and other infantilized exhibitionists of ignorance on xm (where they can still make their bloody fortunes)

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  107. jcburns said on November 10, 2008 at 9:42 am

    Here, I’ll save you a Wikipedia search: Charles Laquidera was on WBCN Boston in the 1970s, and then about a thousand radio stations after that. His news guy was Danny Schechter, “the news dissector.”
    No static at all, FM.

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  108. caliban said on November 10, 2008 at 9:57 am

    There are major league Grade A assholes in America. Robert Novak is one of them for sure. But Novak promoting Newt for President? Serial philanderer? Served divorce papers on his cancer-ridden wife in the hospital? Contract on America? Holy shit. They really need to take away that guy’s driver’s license. Hell, Bob, why not Phil Gramm?

    The FCC in the last eight years has been a mindlessly politicized tentacle of Bushco. Like the Justice Department. Fact is, Fox has operated as a house organ in the grand tradition of Pravda. Anybody that denies that is disingenuous at best, and, at worst and in fact, a liar.Vagaries of “the law” notwithstanding, Swiftboat was slander. Actual malice and outright lies. And where did those ads run on TV but over and over on Fox?

    There is an FCC Charter. The people own the airwaves and broadcasters rent them. If you think George Carlin is a blight and biased politicization from some numbmuts Aussie ahole isn’t, or a delusional Korean preacher, or Scaiffe, I’d say you’re a moron and you don’t pass the polling test.

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