Yep, up late dancing around the maypole catching up on work. Open thread!
jcburns said on May 2, 2012 at 8:51 am
Gee, we haven’t taken our Aprilpole down yet.
del said on May 2, 2012 at 8:57 am
Was looking for a Jethro Tull clip with a lyric about dancing ’round the Maypole and came up short.
But there’s this from a Carmina Burana film (past the midway point) replete with phallic imagery:
The Maypole dancing doesn’t start ’til about 6:00 in…
brian stouder said on May 2, 2012 at 9:40 am
Well, last night I did the platelet thing at Red Cross*, and as it happened, I arrived ahead of the guy next to me, and got control of the TV. In fact, the Red Cross folks had it on MSNBC before I even got settled into my recliner, so life was good! And then I watched the president talk about staying in Afghanistan until 2024, and felt decidedly unwell.
The post-speech yappers did reassure me – a little – with the reminder of what happened when the Soviets left Afghanistan (at the end of the ‘80’s), and the rest of the world powers (including us) who had worked so long to help oust them simply walked away… but that was only a cold reassurance.
But then I went home, and Pam and I watched The Voice, and CeeLo (spelling?) had the best two singers, and the right one advanced, and life was good!
Really, truly – who would even want to be President of the United States? It’s like Lincoln’s old joke about the guy who gets tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail, and says something like ‘if it wasn’t for the honor of the thing, I’d rather walk!’.
**and by the way, I fell into a conversation with one of the needle-meisters there, about all the new technical upgrades in their procedures. They have lots of hand-held touch-screen devices anymore, and in our discussion of computers and internet and so on, I mentioned this place (NancyNall.com) and he said “Wow! Now THERE’S a blast from the past!”. I told him to stop by and see, and that he wouldn’t be disappointed….so, I think we (even us up here in the cheap seats) should remember to behave as if we were not raised by wild animals!
Deborah said on May 2, 2012 at 10:17 am
Hot and humid in Chicago already. Whatever made me wear a turtleneck sweater today? It’s supposed to storm, expecting not to get to walk home for lunch and change out of the sweater. Ugh.
Dave said on May 2, 2012 at 10:19 am
Brian, I suspect you’ve been moved to the box seats and on the list for the luxury boxes.
Needle-meister probably was another (former) subscriber to our hostess’s alma mater. I just renewed for another six months recently but some days, when it comes, I wonder why. As I’ve said before, I grew up reading an afternoon paper, still seems right to me, but this one frequently takes only five minutes or so to read.
We had to make a visit to the BMV yesterday for the first time in a long time, talk about upgrades. We were in and out of there in no time, I’d read of improvements but it was fast.
I’ve long wondered why anyone would want to be president and what drives someone like Mittens to run for ten years, or however long he’s been running. I still think all of them, regardless of affiliation or beliefs, have an ego like most of us here can’t imagine.
Connie said on May 2, 2012 at 10:29 am
I not only wonder why anyone would want to be president I wonder why anyone would want to do local politics, city council, state legislature, etc. And I am thankful that others are willing to do what must be a really really unpleasant job.
As for Mayday, we lived in Minnesota for a few years in the late 90s, and that is the only place I have ever lived that people actually celebrate Mayday. The handmade paper baskets filled with candy that were left on our doorstep by neighborhood kids were adorable.
Julie Robinson said on May 2, 2012 at 10:36 am
Connie, we used to do the May Day baskets when I was growing up in Illinois, but we filled them with flowers, quite a challenge most years.
I missed the President’s speech because my mom called feeling chatty. She’s almost 80, so when she wants to talk, I do. But 2024 makes me queasy as well.
Why would anyone want to go into politics today? For the most part, all we have running now is those weaselly little student council types. Our son pointed out that most future candidates have already eliminated themselves based on their facebook posts.
brian stouder said on May 2, 2012 at 10:56 am
Connie and Julie – agreed. I love-love-love going to our elected school board meetings; a great way to learn what is going on, when coupled with what one learns at the schools (PTA meetings and the like) which we also always attend.
But I would not want to be on the school board of trustees. It would be nice to contribute to their deliberations and discussions (I’m nothing if not opinionated!), but the endless barrage of stuff that isn’t true (or even remotely connected to reality) would get very old, very quickly.
Judybusy said on May 2, 2012 at 11:15 am
We have a wonderful tradition of celebrating May Day in Minneapolis. A parade and festival happen on the first Sunday of the month.It takes place in and around Powderhorn Park, ten blocks from my house. The neighborhood is a hotbed of progressiveness and lesbian central in the city. The best part is when we all sing "You are my sunshine" while watching the boats bring the sun across the lake. The park is a natural amphitheater, with the lake at the bottom of the bowl, and all the spectators arrayed on the hill above. Hmmm, wasn't planning on going, but if I get enough gardening done on Saturday, I just might. It always feels so good to be surrounded by my people.
brian stouder said on May 2, 2012 at 11:19 am
Judybusy, that sounds marvelous; I’d go!
By the way, this sentence at the end of Nancy’s post from yesterday made me laugh out loud, because all at once it seemed to make sense to me, even though it reduces to nonsense on a re-reading:
“If my parents bought me these records when I was 15, I’d have checked the refrigerator,” the clerk said
It made me immediately think of the way my dad used to keep beer in the refrigerator*; so if you went to the fridge and found the supply depleted, you knew he might be acting a bit differently
*Considering he was then a little younger than I am now, I cannot imagine what he was thinking…
paddyo' said on May 2, 2012 at 11:53 am
No May Day per se in my world except for my ex-’s favorite expression, sung the morning of May 1: “Hooray, hooray, the first of May – outdoor whoopee begins today!”
May tradition for me, growing up Catholic, was always the month-long veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of Jesus, including the crowning of a “May queen” at our parochical school (eighth-grade girl in First Holy Communion-style lily white dress/veil, crown of flowers, etc., very Vestal virgin-ish).
I do remember that one year, I think when I was about 10, all of us in my class had to build May altars to the BVM. Mine was a JC Penney shoebox with plastic flowers and, my proud achievement, a “statue” of her, carved out of a big bar of Ivory Soap (my dad’s idea).
By the time I finished, my work of art looked just like . . . a mutilated bar of Ivory Soap.
alex said on May 2, 2012 at 11:54 am
Our son pointed out that most future candidates have already eliminated themselves based on their facebook posts
Nah, someone will come up with the new “I didn’t inhale,” everyone will have a laugh and henceforth no one will have to be ashamed of anything they’ve ever written. Unless, of course, the candidate’s politics at age 50 are the same as they were at age 20.
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on May 2, 2012 at 12:11 pm
I have no idea what to make of this.
Sue said on May 2, 2012 at 12:13 pm
From first grade I wanted to be one of the 8th-grade girls who got to put the crown of flowers on the statue of Mary during the annual May celebration at our school, that was a big, big deal. By sixth grade I knew ’twas not to be, me being not even close to an acceptable competitor in the ‘pretty with wealthy parents’ or ‘pretty with good suck-up-to-the-nuns skills’ or ‘pretty’ competitions, although at the time I only understood about the ‘pretty’ part.
So I crowned my statue of Mary at home, with a crown made of braided lilies of the valley, because of course I had a statue of Mary, duh.
And I assume your ‘BVM’ is different from Dave at 5′s ‘BVM’.
Dexter said on May 2, 2012 at 12:13 pm
Summer’s almost here…
Faster than a speeding bullet!
More powerful than a …
Little Bird said on May 2, 2012 at 12:22 pm
When I was a child, Deborah and I would make construction paper “baskets” and fill them with flowers to leave on the door handles of friends of the family. Only one person caught us.
Dave said on May 2, 2012 at 12:43 pm
Ah. Mine was BMV, Paddyo’s was BVM. Not being Catholic, I don’t know what that is it took me a bit to realize Paddyo is talking about the Blessed Virgin Mary.
At my school, the fourth grade class always got to be the ones to wrap the Maypole at the Spring music concert. It was a big deal or seemed like it was at the time. So, in the spring of 1960, I got to wrap the Maypole while the Blue Danube Waltz played, a song that always takes me back to that scene.
Charlotte said on May 2, 2012 at 12:44 pm
A few years ago two of my borrowed children (including the one who just got into Beloit) were making May Baskets in elementary school –they’d been told you leave them for “old people and spinsters.” Since I was the only unmarried grownup they knew — they were going to give me one! I told them in no uncertain terms that I was neither an old person nor a spinster! Still makes me laugh every year …
Jeff Borden said on May 2, 2012 at 12:46 pm
I have been enjoying the infantile whining of right-wingers over Barack Obama’s comments regarding the one-year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden. He is politicizing a military event, they howl. He is spiking the football, they mewl. His comparisons with the actual words of Willard the Windsock –who stated in 2007 he would never pursue a terrorist enemy into an “ally” like Pakistan– are patently unfair, they moan.
All one needs to do to counter this tidal wave of tears is to trot out the little event on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln waaaaay back in 2003, an event Karl Rove undoubtedly figured would make for some great 2004 campaign visuals. Who can forget seeing our beloved W., who never served in combat, landing on the flight deck in Navy jet, wearing his official Decider-in-Chief costume flight suit. Who can forget the carrier was just 35 miles away from San Diego, where the families of the sailors anxiously awaited their return, but who got to wait just a little longer so W. could enjoy his little photo op. Who can estimate the cost of delaying the ship’s entry to the naval base, the cost of the jet to deposit W. on the deck so that he could preen before a “Mission Accomplished” sign?
And right-wingers have the nerve to criticize Obama for noting this occasion? Fuck `em. If a Republican had done it, they’d be running the footage of Osama’s death 24/7 on Faux News.
coozledad said on May 2, 2012 at 1:04 pm
All the Republicans are asking for is a little equal time. They can call it “M.(ission) A.(ccomplished)” day and decorate their yards with a few thousand miniature flag-draped coffins.
It’s especially galling to hear that fraud McCain complaining about Obama politicizing a clearly stated policy objective. McCain’s entire identity is bound up in his status as a P.O.W. as opposed to his active role in a war where he succeeded in igniting a US aircraft carrier, killing a water buffalo and performing propaganda services for Hanoi.
But at least we never have to hear him say “It’s like comparing cookies apples and oranges”
beb said on May 2, 2012 at 1:07 pm
I hadn’t heard the “spiking the football” line until last night Jon Stewart ran clips from a half-dozen different news shows where the host all used that line. Talk about regurgitating your Republican talking points!
Stay in Afghanistan until 2024? It’s a sad world when Hitler (versus anyone the Republican Party coughs up) is the lesser of two evils.
Sue said on May 2, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Prospero said on May 2, 2012 at 1:23 pm
So where’d your dad do time paddy?
What’s never remarked about the brazen mission accomplished affair is that the crew of the Lincoln was returning to port after an extended tour, and the Shrub histrionics postponed their homecoming by a day so that the light would be right for the phony landing by the supposed pilot that was AWOL for his training back in the day. They should have let McCain fly the plane. He could have racked up another crash, and put Dickless Cheney’s coup in the open.
I believe the GOPers are also forgetting how Cheney told Americans a vote for John Kerry was a vote for another terrorist attack by AQ, and how Tommy Franks was paraded like a dog and pony show at that GOP convention, even though the appearance and its blatant political purpose were patently illegal.
An awe-inspiring John Edwards slam. I will always believe this guy’s phony gentility helped Shrub beat Kerry, but I guess he may have been preoccupied.
Prospero said on May 2, 2012 at 1:35 pm
Sue, that woman is in serious need of a psychiatrist as well as an oncologist. What a nutjob. Still, the kid looks perfectly healthy to me, and clearly was never exposed to the tanning microwave.
coozledad said on May 2, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Sheesh, Sue. My first thought when I saw that picture was “Cissy Spacek is “Black” with a vengeance in her one woman performance of “The Diary of Harriet Tubman”.
Bitter Scribe said on May 2, 2012 at 1:55 pm
A Romney aide is forced out because he has an incurable case of Teh Gay.
The campaign says it tried to talk him out of quitting, but couldn’t. Yeah, right. Any guesses how long it will be until Romney lets another gay person sit within 20 feet of him?
brian stouder said on May 2, 2012 at 2:03 pm
Regarding the killing of Osama bin Laden, the right-wing meme that always, always, always evokes an immediate, snappish reply from me is “Obama’s “GO” decision was just what any president would have decided”.
Such a remark must be based either upon genuine ignorance of recent history, or else flat dishonesty.
I clearly recall reading a contemporaneous article sometime during President Bush’s second term about how the CIA office that was tasked with finding OBL had been stripped of assets, deprioritized, and essentially shut down; the effort to get OBL was a “dead letter” (so to speak).
I remember that the article made me mad, too.
In the days following President Obama’s inauguration, I recall reading another article that reported that the new president had made good on his campaign promise, and had -specifically and expressly- ramped up and re-energized the effort to get OBL.
So, President Obama wasn’t just be-bopping down the hallway at the White House, when one of his lackeys got a text message from one of the dedicated public servants left over from President Bush’s administration, and they thought “what the hell, let’s go for it”.
President Obama made hard decisions earlier, that made possible the very tricky, risky options that came his way last year.
President Obama picked up the ball that President Bush dropped, and President Obama made this happen, period.
Bitter Scribe said on May 2, 2012 at 2:10 pm
What really infuriated me about the OBL business was Romney’s snotty line that “even Jimmy Carter” would have given the order.
Attention Mitt Romney: Jimmy Carter did more for his country and/or humanity during any randomly selected week of his adult life than you have ever accomplished, or will ever accompish, in your entire company-destroying, job-suffocating, would-be-Detroit-bankrupting, flip-flopping, mealymouthed, wretched travesty of a career.
coozledad said on May 2, 2012 at 2:26 pm
bitter scribe: And that just days after Carter said Romney would likely make a decent president.
I think what the Republicans truly hate about Carter was that unlike Reagan, he was a verifiable human being, and not a cigarette hawking casting-couch doughnut.
Prospero said on May 2, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Willard Windsock: Even Jimmy Carter? Seriously you ahole? Carter did , in real life. When Cheney and Rummy had arranged to ship weapons to the ayatollahs if they’d hold on to American hostages until after Raygun’s election. When defense contractor products failed miserably, that didn’t work out, it was all Carter’s fault according to GOPers; reasonable consistency should mean these bastards should be giving Obama credit in the recent case. When it comes to the history of their actions, these guys start every conversation with “Give me rewrite.” Dangerously divorced from reality. And RMoney is not fit to carry Jimma Earl’s jockstrap.
Interesting that WaPo and Politico are obsessing over Obama’s “risky” tactic, because the “boasting” will backfire if there are “terrorist attacks” between now and next November. Sounds like a signal to all the Tim McVeighs and Eric Rudolphs to start their engines.
Maybe the shitheels have forgotten about Tom Ridge’s color coded threat assessment chart, and how it was manipulated by the Shrub/Dickless campaign in ’04. And McCain is a senile Oldtimer that needs to just STFU.
Prospero said on May 2, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Defeated in their state lege, embarrassed in their state supreme court, these people are so convinced of their own moral rectitude, they are intent on forcing it on their fellow citizens by whatever means possible.
Child Endangerment. Daycare in FLA. Redneck Mecca.
adrianne said on May 2, 2012 at 4:28 pm
As a graduate of Our Mother of Divine Providence school, May Day always meant an endless May procession around the parking lot, reciting the Rosary, culminating in a loooooong church service, which usually featured a couple of kids passing out in the un-airconditioned interior.
Bitter Scribe said on May 2, 2012 at 4:44 pm
adrianne: For long services, there’s no beating the Greek Orthodox church. Not only that, but they make you stand up for more than half the service. I never figured out why. Do other religions do that? To this day, standing still is one of my least favorite things to do.
Joe K said on May 2, 2012 at 5:00 pm
Could someone explain why this man is not in jail?http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-pensions-daley-20120502,0,975077.story
brian stouder said on May 2, 2012 at 5:09 pm
OK, this article makes me think “Hmmmmmmm, I wonder if Apple is big-footing Kindle”, but who knows?
Target would not comment on the reason for the Kindle’s elimination, saying only “we typically don’t discuss our relationships with vendor partners.”
And this (with emphasis added)
The Kindle was an apparent hit for Target: The company said last year that the just-launched Kindle Fire was Target’s bestselling tablet on Black Friday.
Target will still sell other e-readers, including the Barnes and Noble Nook, Snyder said. Target recently signed on to sell Amazon’s chief tablet rival: the Apple iPad. It plans to roll out Apple “mini-stores” in 25 of its store locations to sell iPads and iPhones. But plenty of other retailers, including Best Buy and Wal-Mart, sell both Kindles and iPads.
So indeed, others sell both brands, but the others don’t have the Apple “mini stores”. Just sayin’…
Prospero said on May 2, 2012 at 5:11 pm
Daley’s employing the RMoney income tax dodge defense. Just took advantage of the rules. Exactly what Mittens says about how is taxes stay so low, when he deigns to release information.
Joe Kobiela said on May 2, 2012 at 5:29 pm
So its ok for Daley but not for Romney?
Prospero said on May 2, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Didn’t say anything of the sort. I’m saying if you can hide behind lax laws and regulations, you don’t get sent to jail. Now I think offshoring cash to avoid paying income tax is illegal, but apparently Willard can afford lawyers and CPAs to get him by. If Dalaey can be proven to have broken the law, he should go to jail. I’m certainly not standing up for the son of the asshole that directed his PD to beat up me and my friends in Grant Park in ’68. If it’s OK for RMoney, I’d say Dailey’s shitheel behavior doesn’t rek as high to heaven as Windsock’s.
brian stouder said on May 2, 2012 at 5:47 pm
Say, a non-sequitur.
Our lovely almost-14 year old wants to go to the movies with her friends, and see The Cabin in the Woods.
Mom is objecting, and then, she came upon the IMDB parental guide, which I think is actually pretty funny!
Several things made me drop my chin, but this profanity summary got me laughing out loud:
About 55 F-words, 5 sexual references, 12 scatological terms, 4 anatomical terms, 3 mild obscenities, 2 religious profanities, 10 religious exclamations.
Name-calling (creep, dumb blonde, fool, back woods idiots, burnout, hopeless, nuts, egghead, alpha male.)
In what may be considered a racial slur, a man says, “You can’t trust the Swedes.”
“Religious profanities”? And – “alpha male” is name-calling? (And anyway, I agree that you really can’t trust the damned Swedes!)
All in all, I am now leaning somewhat against the movie – but we shall see.
Jeff Borden said on May 2, 2012 at 5:52 pm
You’ll get no defense of Richie Daley from me either, Joe, even though I love my life in Chicago. I curse his name every time I plop a quarter into the parking meters he has leased out for the next 75 years to generate a small bonanza he quickly burned off. Or pay one of the $60 tickets an army of agents write every day to keep the city coffers full for more hijinks.
He’s doing what all our elected officials in Illinois do. . .pad the shit out of their pensions or double-dip on multiple pensions. It’s a horrible, corrupt racket, but at the moment, it’s legal. As Prospero notes, Willard the Windsock does it legally, too, though on a far grander scale than Daley could imagine. The $400K the ex-mayor is getting is a little less than the amount made during public speaking engagements by Romney last year. . .income the Windsock described as “not very much” to reporters.
The real reason Daley ought to be in trouble relates to police torture back in the 80s, when he was a state’s attorney, but that’s for another day.
Jeff Borden said on May 2, 2012 at 5:58 pm
I am 61 and do not have kids, but I would probably be a bit circumspect about “The Cabin in the Woods,” which I saw and loved last weekend. It depends on the level of maturity your 14-year-old exhibits. There is a great deal of cursing, drinking and pot smoking –one of the main characters is toking throughout the film– and, of course, some sex to leaven the violence. That said, I found it to be a fun horror film rather than the ghastly, depressing torture porn of the “Saw” or “Hostel” movies. This is a film that weaves all the horror film cliches and tropes and marries them with conspiracy theories, H.P. Lovecraft and his Cthulu mythos, government bureaucracy, etc. In short, it’s brainier than it looks at first, but it also has a deep, deep streak of nihilism within.
It is one of the most slam-bang entertaining films I’ve seen in a long while, but again, I’m a horror film fan.
I wish I could share more, but any further discussion would ruin it for any other geeks like me who enjoy a well-crafted fright flick.
Jakash said on May 2, 2012 at 6:29 pm
I loved the way the “spoilers” were hidden under the red warning wrap at that imdb link you provided. I gotta say that’s a pretty thorough accounting of the film’s elements.
I haven’t seen it, but Jeff B’s review will certainly increase the chances that we might, at some point. We rarely see horror films, but when we do, “fun” ones are what we’re looking for, as opposed to the run-of-the-mill gore.
alex said on May 2, 2012 at 6:37 pm
Can you explain why Dubya and Dick Cheney haven’t been sentenced to death as war criminals? (I mean besides the fact that they haven’t left U.S. soil in several years and don’t plan to do so. Ever. They’re damn lucky to have a “Kenyan socialist Muslim” president who isn’t handing their asses over to the rulers of the world’s more civilized nations.)
If your kid’s fourteen, she has heard about 55-plus f-words per day since she was six; infinitely more sexual references daily since age 8; at least as many scatological and anatomical terms and mild obscenities per day her entire life; religious profanities and exclamations out the wazoo; and name-calling and racial slurs that would make the above sound like high praise lavished on a teacher’s pet.
I’m sure if she sees the film she’ll regard it all as the background noise that it is.
I saw Saturday Night Fever at sixteen with a group that included people as young as twelve and no ticket taker batted an eye. In that movie a woman fucks an entire high school football team in the back seat of a car and people snort coke and smoke pot and cuss like there’s no tomorrow. And you see how well I’ve turned out.
Joe K said on May 2, 2012 at 7:03 pm
Because their not war criminals
Pro’s Daley should be in jail for illegally closing Meigs field. That was a federal offense.
MichaelG said on May 2, 2012 at 7:20 pm
I agree about the Daley pension games. They’re probably legal but they shouldn’t be. I agree about Romney’s money games. Probably legal but shouldn’t be. And I certainly agree with you about Meigs field, Joe. However, I can’t see how you can hang Daley around Prospero’s neck. He’s made his distaste for Daley pretty clear.
Prospero said on May 2, 2012 at 7:40 pm
I’ve heard of Meigs Field, vaguley, but I don’t know what Dailey had to do with it that was controversial. I have been told that the runways at the airfield were paved over infamous mob burial grounds from the 20s and 30s and I’m certain Raygun violated federal law when he fired all the air traffic controllers.
And GOPers don’t really abhor the Dailey family because of corruption or autocratic rule, it’s their unshakable belief in the old GOP shibboleth about old Dick dleivering for JFK in 1960, sans any attempt at all of evidence. It’s a matter of faith, nothing more, and losing all those elections to them.
Joe K said on May 2, 2012 at 8:03 pm
Daley had a deal to keep Meigs open after taking Federal money to upgrade Ohare, then in the middle of the night after the field was closed they blocked out the field camera’s and dug giant x’s in the middle of the runways, The faa was not notified, when the controllers came to work the next day they found the field in that condition. There were airplanes left stranded on the field, for some time before they were given permission to use the taxi way to leave.
Pilot Joe http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2003/03-1-157x.html
Connie said on May 2, 2012 at 8:19 pm
I saw that picture of the icky tanning woman earlier, and I wondered: What does she see when she looks in the mirror?
Bitter Scribe said on May 2, 2012 at 8:28 pm
I had/have no use for Daley, but the Meigs thing didn’t spill my beer. So some rich jerks have to wait in line at O’Hare with the rest of us. Boo freakin’ hoo.
Deborah said on May 2, 2012 at 8:31 pm
Connie, the over tanning thing must be a form of something similar to anorexia, an inability to see thier own body image. An odd psychological phenomena.
Joe K said on May 2, 2012 at 8:53 pm
What about the people that lost their jobs do to Meigs closing, not to mention the extra 15-20 min for the coast guard helicopters to respond, which may not sound like much unless your the one being rescued. Next time you fly out of Ohare and are 25th inline, just think how much less traffic there would be at Ohare if meigs was handling that traffic?
brian stouder said on May 2, 2012 at 8:53 pm
Well, mom decided Shelby can see her movie with her friends, so I had her mow the backyard (in exchange for the special dispensation, of course!*), and everyone is now happy.
We’ll report back after they see it (presumably this weekend)
*Yeah yeah yeah, there isn’t any real rationale in this trade; so sue me, ya damned Swedes!
David C. said on May 2, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Officially known as the International Military Tribunal for the Far East. After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as ‘water cure,’ ‘water torture’ and ‘waterboarding,’ according to the charging documents. It simulates drowning.” Politifact went on to report, “A number of the Japanese soldiers convicted by American judges were hanged, while others received lengthy prison sentences or time in labor camps.
They DID torture Pilot Joe. If we are to ever again have any credibility to accuse other countries of human rights violations, we have to own up to our own and appropriately punish those responsible. To not do so, would be to give any other country a green light to treat our POWs from any future wars in the same manner. Is that what you want?
Joe K said on May 2, 2012 at 10:05 pm
Watch last weeks 60 minutes. I doubt any of our enemy’s would really give a shit what the Geneva convention says do you?
coozledad said on May 2, 2012 at 10:20 pm
David C.: According to the wisdom that prevails in Joe and every other Republican’s reality, it’s only torture if a nonwhite does it. If a nonwhite country gives in to its rightist elements, we obliterate them, unless they’re producing diamonds for jet trash.
If we do it, it’s for God.
I’m at least thankful we didn’t use the American version of water torture employed in the 19th century against the Filipino “insurrection”. It involved pumping enough water through a tube in the prisoner’s throat to distend the upper bowel and trigger hemorrhaging.
Coupled with the Brits’ invention of concentration camps in the Boer War, I think it would be fair to describe the West as “godless” and “barbaric”, and inherently dismissive of the value of human life. But I would be remiss if I didn’t mention the expedition of German Christians into the Namib desert to exterminate the Herero and Namaqua tribes. Read about that one, Joe.
Whitey’s a piece of motherfucking work.
brian stouder said on May 2, 2012 at 11:11 pm
Actually, what polite American society during Andy Jackson’s time called “Indian Removal” policy was a flatly genocidal program.
Some (in fact many) people reflexively roll their eyes if you mention American slavery, but the plain fact is that when the (seemingly infallible, god-like, and all wise) Founding Fathers did their thing, most of them also owned slaves; and not for nothing, but I have no use at all for Thomas Jefferson – a horrible bastard who could write.
I have read that the nazis were impressed with how effective the American “reservation” system was, and that this example served them when they set up their own concentration camps.
And indeed, you don’t have to read very far into anything about Teddy Roosevelt before you start tripping over the bullshit word “ayrian” every whip-stitch. He and his cronies were very big on that, which leads to the Philippine morass Cooz refers to, and ultimately to the Pacific War of the 1940′s.
I think one of the biggest lies that too many people readily (even eagerly) accept is the bullshit idea of “American exceptionalism”.
America has never, ever been “excepted” from human cruelty and ignorance and prejudice. I am very proud of my country for struggling mightily – especially amongst ourselves – against this sort of thing; but it is a fight that is never over.
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on May 2, 2012 at 11:39 pm
Dust Bowl Dance – Mumford & Sons
The young man stands on the edge of his porch
The days were short and the father was gone
There was no one in the town and no one in the field
This dusty barren land had given all it could yield
I’ve been kicked off my land at the age of sixteen
And I have no idea where else my heart could have been
I placed all my trust at the foot of this hill
And now I am sure my heart can never be still
So collect your courage and collect your horse
And pray you never feel this same kind of remorse
Seal my heart and brake my pride
I’ve nowhere to stand and now nowhere to hide
Align my heart, my body, my mind
To face what I’ve done and do my time
Well you are my accuser, now look in my face
Your oppression reeks of your greed and disgrace
So one man has and another has not
How can you love what it is you have got
When you took it all from the weak hands of the poor?
Liars and thieves you know not what is in store
There will come a time I will look in your eye
You will pray to the God that you always denied
The I’ll go out back and I’ll get my gun
I’ll say, “You haven’t met me, I am the only son”
Well yes sir, yes sir, yes it was me
I know what I’ve done, cause I know what I’ve seen
I went out back and I got my gun
I said, “You haven’t met me, I am the only son”
David C. said on May 3, 2012 at 7:25 am
Yes Joe, I do expect any country we are at war with to abide by the Geneva conventions just as I expect us to do the same. Do you remember when you were in school and you were taught that Allied prisoners were treated brutally by the Germans during WW II but German prisoners were treated well by the US? How did that make you feel? I felt proud. That’s what American exeptionalism should mean. It should mean that we hold ourselves to the standard of what’s right, not what seems expedient at the moment. That any enemy may not abide to the Geneva Conventions is not a reason to not abide ourselves and to say it is seems rather childish, IMO.
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