Dry all over.

Alan took a spontaneous three-quarter day off today, after his scientific study of lake levels determined that if he didn’t get his boat out of our marina today, he wasn’t going to get it out at all. Day after day, blue-sky high pressure. We had a little rain the last couple of days, but not enough. If we don’t have a shitload of snow and spring rain and maybe a little dredging, we’re going to have to find a new place for Lush Life next year.

Yes, I know. First world problem. But it is ours.

So, now: The debate. I’m starting to loathe these affairs. Who the hell is still undecided on October 16? If these are actually helpful to voters, I’ll eat my damn hat. So if Jeremy Epstein is worried about getting a job, all I have to say is, hey, did Mitt get a haircut? And did he just say “Mr. Gas?” Sounds like the villain in a Beano commercial.

Mr. Gas, Mr. Coal. I did not have those in the drinking game.

God, I hate this. Candy Crowley, stick your head in an oven. Put a sock in that guy’s mouth first.

What? No taxes on capital gains or dividends? Good news, Paris Hilton! (And all the Romneys!) I must have misheard that.

I can’t stand that smirk. He really does remind me of the boss who laid you off. Yeah, that guy.

I hate these 72 percent questions. Too, too reductive. But is Mitt endorsing affirmative action? OMG.

Champening. It’s what small businesses need.

I will say this: It’s good to see the prez with a head of steam again. The pension answer was great. “It’s not as big as yours.” NURSE, BRING SOME ICE FOR THIS BURN.

Tigers up by two in the sixth. Ohhh-kay.

Annnnd here comes the 47 percent zinger annnnd scene.

This one wasn’t even close. What’s your call?

Posted at 12:40 am in Current events, Same ol' same ol' |

81 responses to “Dry all over.”

  1. brian stouder said on October 17, 2012 at 12:56 am

    I loved it. I usually don’t actually shout at the TV; even watching F1 races – it’s not something I do.

    But tonight, when the president slapped that chucklehead around – and especially on Mitt’s Libya delusion – I exclaimed several times.

    Nance is right – I don’t think these things really move many voters; they’re a pageant for people who already know what they want….and I got precisely what I wanted, in every respect.

    And now, again – forward we go

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  2. Dexter said on October 17, 2012 at 1:17 am

    Brian and Nance are right; undecided voters on October 16 are just a bunch of shitheels.

    I watched the debate in between hitters and innings, because the Tigers and Yankees were in a dog fight to the last pitch again. Mr. Superstar of October, Raul Ibanez, was at bat with two strikes and Phil Coke struck him out. Another nail-biting helluva game. 2-1 Detroit. Tigers lead the pennant series 3-0.

    I am hoping for a San Francisco-Tigers World Series next week.

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  3. Dexter said on October 17, 2012 at 1:25 am

    It was strange when I realized Alex Rodriguez of the Yankees had been benched. He’s not hitting these nights. He makes roughly $171,000 for each game the Yankees play, whether he plays or not.
    Not a bad wage for a benched cheerleader. No Mariano, no Jeter, no A-Rod…and no reason why the Tigers can’t finish them off really quickly.

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  4. Sherri said on October 17, 2012 at 1:39 am

    I’m not shedding too many tears over the Yankees having to pay $171K to ARod: http://www.forbes.com/teams/new-york-yankees/

    I’m right there with you, Dexter, hoping for a Giants-Tigers World Series.

    James Fallows had some discussion about undecided voters a few days ago, and ran a couple of responses from some people giving their perspectives as undecided voters. I don’t think they came off as well as they thought they might: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/undecided-voters-speak/263554/

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  5. Dexter said on October 17, 2012 at 1:53 am


    Mitch does some straight sports reporting here, but he misses the point. Verlander was not sharp last night, he struggled quite a bit and relied on the defense to make plays behind him. When JV is “on”, he strikes out ten or so hitters , and last night he only had three strikeouts. JV is so damn good that even when he really doesn’t feel it, he can still shut out the goddam New York Yankees for 8-plus innings.

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  6. Linda said on October 17, 2012 at 4:53 am


    What irks me about many undecided voters is the tone of righteousness, which I detected in the 2 who wrote to Fallows. They act too good for these flawed people who show up and dare ask for their vote. Then, when they make a choice, it’s often for dumb, shallow reasons.

    So many voters seem to view themselves as political consumers, as opposed to citizens. They keep searching for someone perfect enough to earn their vote and gain their attention (i.e., voting for Bush because Gore “irritated” him). We don’t have the “right” to be perfectly courted by perfect candidates. We are citizens, and have the obligation to pay attention and sift through boring information to make choices. People, get over it. And get over yourselves. All the people who run for office have flaws, but somebody has to run the show.

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  7. coozledad said on October 17, 2012 at 6:15 am

    We have a lot of unused old schoolbuildings in the US that could be repurposed into factories where people who thought Romney could be president can be herded daily to make cheap plastic toys. The twelve foot electrified barbed wire fences would only be there to keep idlers from gawking and throwing rocks at the monkeys.

    I got to give it to Romney’s team. They must have worked for weeks to perfect his hand gestures. They almost got him up to “line boss at a heat treating plant”. Good job, losers.

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  8. ROGirl said on October 17, 2012 at 6:53 am

    Watching the Tigers smack the Yankees around was deeply satisfying.

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  9. David C. said on October 17, 2012 at 6:55 am

    Because I remember the Tigers in 2006, I’m not sure it would be such a good thing to sweep the Yankees. In the ’06 ALCS they swept the Yankees or won in 5 and because of rain delays in the NLCS sat around for the better part of a week. They came out really listless and weren’t sharp at all.

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  10. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on October 17, 2012 at 7:04 am


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  11. Deborah said on October 17, 2012 at 7:34 am

    Charles Pierce, preach it brother http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/last-night-debate-13800806

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  12. Deborah said on October 17, 2012 at 7:37 am

    And I will add that I slept through the night for the first time in months.

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  13. Deborah said on October 17, 2012 at 7:46 am

    More about those binders http://blog.thephoenix.com/BLOGS/talkingpolitics/archive/2012/10/16/mind-the-binder.aspx

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  14. alex said on October 17, 2012 at 8:07 am

    Binders full of women — it sounds like the creepy stuff Moamar Qadafi had under his bed.

    Glad to see that Romney can indeed be knocked off his game. His petulant side is so unbecoming. It’s also Mitt at his most genuine. I’m sure I’ll hear all sorts of water cooler talk today about how Mitt made Obama his bitch and I’ll have to stifle my amusement. This debate probably won’t change anyone’s mind but it sure brings into high relief what a dishonest and opportunistic empty suit it takes these days to have a shot at a general election victory under the GOP brand.

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  15. brian stouder said on October 17, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Deborah – a buddy sent me that same ‘binder of good women’ link, and it is definitely good stuff.

    And Alex, there is a light frost in our office this morning, too – which is fine with me.

    It is vastly more pleasant to smile politely and glide past; and I’m betting the several fellows who (separately) sought me out last time to ask my opinion of the show will skip asking me that, this time.

    This is the enjoyment of the fruits of victory – not unlike when one’s baseball team (or F1 driver!) wins

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  16. Julie Robinson said on October 17, 2012 at 9:02 am

    The Pierce column is well worth reading, and I loved your second comment, Deborah. Retirement is good, no?

    Unlike Brian, I AM someone who shouts at the TV, and I began about two minutes into Romney’s first response. And this time I was joined by my husband, he of the mild mannered-ness to rival Jeff. He finally decided he was getting too worked up to sleep and stopped watching.

    Candy Crowley showed some real mettle in shutting Romney up, but I think that Obama also realized he couldn’t let Romney talk all over him as he had in the first debate. They both grew a pair.

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  17. Connie said on October 17, 2012 at 9:19 am

    Any other Tiger watchers have a brief Kirk Gibson moment during that last at bat?

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  18. coozledad said on October 17, 2012 at 9:23 am

    Pareene, as usual, nails it:
    “Obama clearly prepared for his Libya response. Romney makes a dumb mistake: Obama says he spoke in the Rose Garden after the attack and called it an act of terror. Romney says “no you didn’t.” Obama says “get the transcript.” Crowley says ‘he did.’ The audience applauds Crowley live fact-checking Romney. Like, twice. They applaud twice. Romney stutters through the rest of his response, and it doesn’t matter what he says: He just got fucking destroyed. By the audience, basically.”

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  19. BigHank53 said on October 17, 2012 at 9:32 am

    Little known fact about heat-treating plants, coozledad: they frequently have a lot of potassium cyanide hanging about. (It’s used for case-hardening.) Like, 55 gallon drums full of the stuff. 25 grams is usually a lethal dose. Everyone tends to be very polite.

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  20. coozledad said on October 17, 2012 at 9:39 am

    BigHank53: Goddamn. They never told me that. All I remember is standing next to a thing that looked like an oven that periodically opened, belched fire, and singed my eyebrows.
    There was probably a class action lawsuit against TRW that would have netted me twenty bucks, but I missed out.

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  21. Jolene said on October 17, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Some non-debate-related entertainment: a time-lapse video of the space shuttle on its way across LA. Lots of great shots that give a sense of the spectacle and scale of this undertaking. Almost wish the film moved a little more slowly to give more of a chance to focus on shots like people looking out their apartment windows at the space shuttle going down a residential street.

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  22. Deggjr said on October 17, 2012 at 10:05 am

    As an American League / non-Tigers fan, I hope Justin Verlander starts the 7th game of the World Series (on the road). The location will be on him.

    What the fans really want to see is their side win.

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  23. coozledad said on October 17, 2012 at 10:32 am

    My wife’s big laugh from the debate last night is Romney pushing the idea that interest income even means anything to the middle class. we don’t have kids and bank all that money that would otherwise go to keeping them clothed, fed, and out of the fucking army. Our interest earnings are 0.5%.

    It won’t cover the property taxes, but it could conceivably keep us in oats, flour and beans.


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  24. MichaelG said on October 17, 2012 at 10:35 am

    I wonder if the full content of what was said at the debates is as important as the bites that get replayed over and over on the news and elsewhere.

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  25. Jolene said on October 17, 2012 at 10:38 am

    One of the better jokes in response to Romney’s “binders full of women” remark.


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  26. Bitter Scribe said on October 17, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Jolene: That was my favorite line too. It made me think of a harem. Yes, I am perverse. Thanks for asking.

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  27. Prospero said on October 17, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Apt movie analogy. And how does Mittens know what’s in the Presidential pension portfolio? Caymans investments? Swiss and Chinese investments. That was just a litany of Willard’s own IRS-avoiding chicanery. What do these two things have to do with one another, but, how the hell would RMoney know how Presidential pension funds are invested. Struck me as weird, unless Windsock is already coveting that pension money as another ill-gotten gain, with which he will continue to create exactly 0 jobs while not paying taxes on it. Speaking of which, I say after all this time and 1.5 total tax returns, it’s fair and reasonable to assume some monstrous tax avoidance is being cloaked.

    Not as funny as the Big Dog picture, but this is pretty clever. Looks like a Led Zep album cover.

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  28. Prospero said on October 17, 2012 at 10:59 am

    Those binders are intended expressly for the use of those OB-GYNs that haven’t been “able to practice their love with women all over the country”.

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  29. Julie Robinson said on October 17, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Oh Jolene, thank you, I needed a laugh like that today. It’s been a rough last two weeks, but vacation starts tomorrow!

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  30. Charlotte said on October 17, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Glad to hear you all are so sanguine — I find Mitt so upsetting that I couldn’t really watch. I processed the last of the hot peppers (strung some on ristras, chopped the others up and salted) and made dinner while my Beloved yelled at the TV from the other room. His bullying of Crawley and racist posturing toward the president (all I could think of was that awful governor of Arizona with her finger in his face) just made me crazy. Woke up in the middle of the night upset about it all — the same way I found Reagan infuriating and upsetting as a 20-something.
    However, this tumblr (which came out before the debate was even over!) did cheer me up some: http://bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com/

    And I too am on team Tigers/Giants.

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  31. Prospero said on October 17, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Good news, fersher.
    Democrat Kathy Hochul wins Jack Kemp’s old district, that was GOPer controlled for 40 years, with GOPer plans to FUBAR Medicare the crucial issue.

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  32. Chris in Iowa said on October 17, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Deborah, thank you for the link to the Charles Pierce column.

    “You’ll get your chance in a moment. I’m still speaking.”

    Has anyone ever publicly addressed the President of the United States in such a dismissive way? Any president?

    I keep thinking of the aneurism Sean Hannity would have had if the roles had been reversed and challenger Barack Obama had spoken that way to President Mitt Romney.

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  33. coozledad said on October 17, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Charlotte: I know just what you mean. I had to get juiced to watch that sumbitch. The fact that Romney is even in the race is yet another reminder that half the country is pig ignorant and hateful, and proud of it.

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  34. Scout said on October 17, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    I know this is processed through my own filter, but I watch Mitt and see a thin-skinned asshole, barely able to contain his contempt for the POTUS (for Pete’s sake) and shudder to think of how he would comport himself with other world leaders. This just isn’t even funny any more.

    But this is: http://bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com/post/33761218580/a-touching-story#notes

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  35. Kaye said on October 17, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Scout, I share your opinion of Mitt. Check out the Esquire link above which contains this gem: “But not even I expected Romney to let his entitled, Lord-of-the-Manor freak flag fly as proudly as he did on Tuesday night. He got in the president’s face. He got in Crowley’s face. That moment when he was hectoring the president about the president’s pension made him look like someone to whom the valet has brought the wrong Mercedes.”

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  36. Sherri said on October 17, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    I like the point at the end of the article Deborah pointed to at #13:

    Third, note that in Romney’s story as he tells it, this man who had led and consulted for businesses for 25 years didn’t know any qualified women, or know where to find any qualified women. So what does that say?

    Binders full of women, indeed. I know there are women who are going to vote for Romney simply because he is Team Republican, but all I can say is, no self-respecting woman should go anywhere near him.

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  37. brian stouder said on October 17, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Chris in Iowa – your ‘Hannity-aneurism’ comment is a long homerun into deep right field!

    Made me laugh out loud

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  38. DellaDash said on October 17, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    It was most def a screen-yeller, with a few deliciously shallow tomandlorenzo moments to admire how POTUS was rocking his prez threads…then time-out to laugh at the pre-debate Daily Show, where, of all people, David Simon popped up in a clip from Stewart’s guest-filmmaker documentary about the debilitating long-term effects of the war on drugs (so NOT a campaign issue)…then back to trawling the punditverse for gloat injections…although not nimble enough to avoid hearing how a few undecideds are buying into a better Romney America, and suffering without Cooze on my shoulder to whisper only the most vulgar shtick from his bottemless bag that could express my depth of contempt.

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  39. Prospero said on October 17, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Best of all possible? Undecideds all vote for that pot-head Libertarian from New Mexico. These navel-gazing Onanists seem like the same group of people that voted for Darth Nader in 2000, and ushered in Shrubco.

    When RMoney brings up his term as Goober-nor of Mass. I want somebody to ask him to explain why he bought all those hard drives from state government computers and destroyed them.


    And when he mentions all of his holdings being in a blind trust, somebody has got to quote his mocking dismissal of blind trusts during a debate with Ted Kennedy. “The blind trust is an age-old ruse, if you will. Which is to say you can always tell a blind trust what it can and cannot do. You give a blind trust rules.”

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  40. brian stouder said on October 17, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    (in fact, I was watching Lawrence O’Donnell speaking with Governor Pataki in the spin-room, and Sean went bolting past in the background, as if he was looking to make an emergency down-load into the nearest toilet. POssibly this is why your comment struck me as especially on-target) (so to speak!)

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  41. jcburns said on October 17, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Did Jeremy get a job yet? Maybe the Romney campaign can hire him to drag Romney’s binders full of women to the nearest landfill.

    Also, I have this question I want to ask. Me and the brain trust put it together when we were on our cigarette break, discussing, as we do, security at our embassies worldwide. So I have this question. i think it’s a good one.

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  42. Dorothy said on October 17, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Julie where are you headed for vacation? We leave in 23.5 hours for Tampa. It’ll be a nice long weekend there, seeing our daughter who’s coming from Norfolk, culminating with my 37 year old nephew’s wedding on Saturday afternoon.

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  43. Dorothy said on October 17, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    JC is back from vacation!!!! Welcome back, buddy. And I’m guessing the edit button will be back before we know it!

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  44. nancy said on October 17, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    J.C. is back from his vacation…in FRANCE. You can see why I was hesitant to ask him to fix the edit button from the Loire valley.

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  45. jcburns said on October 17, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    I sold the ‘edit’ button to pay for some Vin du Côtes de Rhone and a fine Comte fromage or two, topped off with Pain au Chocolat. I got the better end of that deal.

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  46. Scout said on October 17, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Lucky J.C.! Welcome back. We missed you. Also, too, the edit function!

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  47. Julie Robinson said on October 17, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    It’s not France or even Florida, but I’m sure gonna enjoy myself visiting our daughter, who lives north of Seattle. My mom is coming along for the first half and we’re all going to a figure skating competition. It’s a bucket list item for me and when I saw how close it was to Sarah it was a no-brainer. We leave the house tomorrow at (gulp) 5 in the morning. Enjoy yourself, Dorothy, and welcome back, JC!

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  48. Dorothy said on October 17, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    France?! Wow. I can only dream. You have a lovely time, too, Julie. I always come back to work rejuvenated when I’ve gotten to spend some time with my daughter.

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  49. Jolene said on October 17, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    What do you think? Is this for real?


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  50. brian stouder said on October 17, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Jolene – I’ll betcha she’s a Glen Beck listener

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  51. Jolene said on October 17, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Prospero, your link @ 31 is more than a year old.

    As to how Romney would know what’s in O’s pension fund, I imagine it’s a matter of looking at his public disclosure forms. If he’s reported holding, say, certain mutual funds, then it’s just a matter of looking at how those finds are invested. I’m not an investment expert, but it seems likely that the SEC would require mutual funds or other such instruments to disclose their holdings.

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  52. del said on October 17, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Le Beaujolais nouveau est arrivee, JC? Hope the trip was fun.

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  53. Judybusy said on October 17, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Oh, god, Jolene, that was freakin’ hilarious! The debate last night made for a tough phone bank,as people didn’t pick up. Those that did tended to say, “I’m watching the debate, now’s not a good time to talk.” We just plowed through and got 125 shifts scheduled for folks to make calls to defeat the marriage amendment. I can’t believe I have just two more Tuesday evenings of calls before the election!

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  54. Jolene said on October 17, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    I’ll betcha she’s a Glen Beck listener

    Could be, but she’s also from my home state. If this gets out, I may have to start falsifying my birthplace.

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  55. brian stouder said on October 17, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Judybusy – I can see where you got the name!

    Last night was dad’s night at your daughters’ school – and they had free pizza, bottled water, and bingo (for inexpensive treats when you win) – and I was volunteered as one of the servers.

    about 400 people had indicated they’d attend, and we had 80 pizza pies (sausage pizzas, pepperoni pizzas, and cheese pizzas) – and I was worried we’d end up with leftovers.

    That didn’t happen!

    Probably closer to 500 people showed up, and we had exactly the right amount of pizza – even allowing seconds. (I was surprised that demand for cheese pizzas was so strong. It was the first flavor we ran out of)

    After the pizza and all the bingo (which was a hoot), there were lots of dried beans all around the cafeteria (they were the markers in the bingo games) and other stuff – and the girls and I were there to the bitter end, sweeping and cleaning and so on.

    But we were home just before 9, so I went into debate-mode as the girls hit the showers

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  56. brian stouder said on October 17, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Jolene, when she said

    “The government can guide deer to lower traffic areas,”

    I thought she sounded like a full-ride Becker

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  57. Sherri said on October 17, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    The war on drugs is quietly somewhat a campaign issue up here in Washington, as we have an initiative on the ballot to legalize, license, and tax marijuana. The initiative is endorsed by a pretty wide consortium of organizations, not just NORML, including the typically conservative Seattle Times. There’s not much organized opposition; while much of law enforcement might be opposed, they also would benefit from the taxation, so it’s not a high priority. Not all of law enforcement is opposed, either; both candidates for King County Sheriff (Seattle is in King County) have endorsed. The biggest opposition is from the medical marijuana community, because the initiative has a DUI threshold for marijuana impairment in it.

    I’m cautiously optimistic that both this initiative and the referendum on same-sex marriage will pass.

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  58. DellaDash said on October 17, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Interesting, Sherri.

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  59. Sherri said on October 17, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Timothy Noah attempts to track down the provenance of the phrase “trickle down government”: http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/108724/brief-history-trickle-down-government

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  60. Bitter Scribe said on October 17, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    That woman in Fargo must be a sister of the woman who watched a TV documentary about how deforestation deprives owls and other birds of habitat and responded: “Don’t those poor owls know enough to get off the trees before they’re cut down?”

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  61. Danny said on October 17, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    BigHank53, not sure about the potassium cyanide these days. My understanding is that most plants have gone away from all cyanide compounds and use much cleaner and safer methods to get disassociated carbon and nitrogen for carberizing or nitriding processes. The only holdouts would be perhaps old FAA approved parts that require carbo-nitriding. It is a pain to get FAA parts re-approved with a different heat-treatment, dimensional tolerance, etc.

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  62. Suzanne said on October 17, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    I wouldn’t consider myself undecided but I keep an open mind and watched last night’s debate hoping Romney would give me a reason to like him. He didn’t. He was rude. His comments about capital gains tax (we don’t have enough money for that) and that he didn’t know any qualified women to bring into his cabinet, but when he found them, he let them have flexible hours so they could cook bothered me (and I love to cook!).

    I’m also sure I heard something about his tax code changes giving people $25,000 in tax breaks. Yippee,I’d say, except that I don’t make that much a year, meaning all those tax breaks would have me paying no income tax which would make me a 47% slacker. So, either way, I lose.

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  63. Jeff Borden said on October 17, 2012 at 5:15 pm

    One thing that always sticks in my craw about rightwingers is their refusal to simply face the truth. Some of the louder howler monkeys are bashing Candy Crowley for fact-checking Willard on his Libyan attack comments and, believe it or not, are claiming Mittens was correct in his assessment that President Obama ever call it a terrorist act. Naturally, they are bashing Crowley for pointing out this egregious error.

    Folks, it’s on fucking videotape from the Rose Garden. I wonder sometimes if you couldn’t smash a conservative’s big toe with a sledgehammer only to hear them say, “You didn’t hit me,” even as they hopped around on one foot.

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  64. 4dbirds said on October 17, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    Linda, I stole your comment about consumer voters. It was spot on.

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  65. Prospero said on October 17, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    Borden: The same people are claiming Bindrs of Women was taken out of contextAnd Rmoney and the President on gas prices and US production last night? The President had the facts, incontrovertible, at his fingertips, and got off a good one about RMoney’s chances of getting gas prices down by doubling down on Shrubco supply side deregulation and laissez faire enforcement and tax cuts. But guess what. Part of the echo chamber must have slipped down the memory hole. Fox News had this all sussed out more than four years ago, especially Spinmeister O:


    And you know, W wasn’t dealing with the Koch Kriminal Konspiracy buying up oil on the futures market and holding several tankers full off shore to manupulate prices.

    When Willard posited the $25 grand worth of deductions, and then said you can pick which ones you want to use, I nose-tricked my IPA. What a doofus. I can use the deduction for my ballet horse? Gee, thanks Massa RMoney. WTF was he talking about, and anybody that buys that $25grand nonsense is an idiot, He took more than $50grand on his horse Bojangles. His constituency won’t stand for that sort of tax coe.

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  66. David C. said on October 17, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    John Fugelsang was on Stephanie Miller and said anyone who is undecided should probably be given a drool cup from Obamacare. Sounds about right.

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  67. Prospero said on October 17, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    RMoney and Lyin’ Ryan can claim until they are blue in the face they don’t intend to dismantle Medicare, but Tommy Thompson is already lobbying to be put in charge of the demolition:


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  68. Scout said on October 17, 2012 at 6:44 pm

    Undecideds are the same idiots I encounter every day claiming to be “Independents” because “both sides do it.” I know where they get this crap too, from sources that should have more integrity, like NPR, who had Mara Liarson on this morning talking about how both candidates needed to be fact checked post debate. I’m not going to pretend that the POTUS doesn’t frame some things to put them in the best possible light, but I simply do not see the equivalence to the outright, bold-faced, mendaciousness that Rmoney tosses off practically every time he opens his mouth.

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  69. Sherri said on October 17, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    What I’m ready to call bullshit on is the concept of “socially liberal, fiscally conservative,” like it’s really possible to separate the two. What most people really seem to mean by that is, you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn’t impact me, which is not socially liberal. They mean I don’t care who you marry, but they don’t mean, we need health care for all. They mean I mostly want abortion to be legal, as long as I don’t have to pay for it. They mean we should have better schools, but don’t raise my taxes.

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  70. Danny said on October 17, 2012 at 8:13 pm

    Odd, as I usually think of myself as socially conservative and fiscally liberal. My only caveat for the latter is that government tends to be very wasteful and irresponsible with money.

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  71. Sherri said on October 17, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    “Government is wasteful” means government spends the money on things I don’t like.

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  72. Linda said on October 17, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    Danny, a couple of caveats to your caveat:

    1) Can we compare medicare to private health insurance? The private sector has about 17% overhead vs. 2% for medicare.

    2) Do you want to tell the happy folks of Indiana that their toll highway is run so much more efficiently in a private/public partnership than it was under the state? Or the happy people of Chicago now that their parking meters have been privatized? Politicians who are in heat to get quick money for their coffers and strike deals with the private sector have been snookered when they should have held tight.

    3) The private sector has the right to pick and choose its targets and has the luxury of not service non-profitable people–charter schools can cherry pick students, for instance. Bookstores can set up shop in affluent neighborhoods, not in many rural or low-income neighborhoods that public libraries have to serve.

    4) The private sector is in fact, protected by privacy. People in Ohio can look up the salaries of their officials and civil servants, but when my sister’s ex-boss took his mistress to Vegas and put it on the company’s expense account, nobody else knew.

    5) Golden parachutes by elite failures have scrubbed out the idea of meritocracy and efficiency.

    There is a knee jerk assumption that the government “wastes” and private enterprise is “efficient,” but capitalism is not about that. It’s about getting people to part with their money. If the conditions are right in a particular market to drive costs down, they do. When they don’t, they don’t.

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  73. Jolene said on October 17, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    An extension of the “women in binders” meme.

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  74. Dexter said on October 17, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    Well parley voo frenchy! Welcome back Mr. Burns.

    Women in binders. Last evening someone had started a Twitter page and it had 14,000 hits overnight. All a bunch of jokesters, I was told.

    I rode my bike into the wind for four miles just for the fun of having the gales blow me back home. Simple pleasures for simple minds.

    Tigers vs. New York Yankees rained out, postponed tonight.

    Stephanie Miller’s healthcare guru, Jackie Schechner, is a riot also. Steph’s show has become must-tune-in TV for a little while at least, every day.


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  75. Danny said on October 17, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    Linda, I agree with your examples of the toll roads and the parking meters.

    Sherri, no. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. There are plenty of examples of government being wasteful and irresponsible with taxpayer funds and if you don’t know of any, shame on ya. Surfs up. Aloha from Kaua’i!

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  76. Sherri said on October 17, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    Not my job to give examples for your position, Danny. One person’s waste is another person’s essential spending.

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  77. Danny said on October 17, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    Well, then you can essentially enjoy your $800 dollar toilet seats.

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  78. Sherri said on October 17, 2012 at 10:45 pm

    Got a source for that, Danny?

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  79. brian stouder said on October 17, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    One person’s waste is another person’s essential spending

    Government cannot do anything right – except waste money?

    Well – it was a massive government project that put human beings onto the surface of the moon, yes? And the transcontinental railroad was a fairly massive government project, which the government got going on as it was busy fighting a massive rebellion by 19th century plutocrats willing to fight to the death (the death of poor white trash – and not themselves, of course!) in defense of their (the plutocrats’!) right to perpetuate enslaving other people.

    Now you can say – there was all sorts of chicanery and fraud and corruption and profiteering in amongst the massive transcontinental railroad efforts; and you can say the same about the massive war effort that saved the Union and ended Constitutional slavery.

    Possibly we can agree that humanity in general treats real money like Monopoly money; there’s lots of gamesmanship and self-interest and greed and waste and inefficiency.

    It’s a human thing, more than an institutional thing. The government has, I would argue, LOTS more on the results side of the ledger than any other single human institution.

    ‘Course, if you disagree, feel free to go somewhere that has no operational government, and start an enterprise, and prove the theory that business (free of government) is more virtuous than government. Possibly you could become a captain of a Somali pirate ship, for example; or maybe a Syrian shoe-maker. If so, best wishes and good luck

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  80. Rana said on October 17, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    “Government is wasteful.”

    To which I retort, “And private business is not? Please.”

    At least with the former I have some say about it.

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  81. Linda said on October 18, 2012 at 12:29 am

    Danny and Sherri–
    Re: the toilet. Actually, it was a $600 toilet developed by NASA. Here’s some talk about that: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=25975.295;wap2

    According to a procurement guy I know, the toilet had to actually come to some tough specs, custom-made, and probably cost a lot for a legit reason. OTOH, where the govt really spends too much, according to him, is for ready-made stuff that is easy to find.

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