Denial, grief, anger.

I thought perhaps another 24 hours or so would make me less jumpy, but it hasn’t. Although, hey, stress/disbelief/grief seems to be giving way to fury! Is that good? You tell me. If I hadn’t been alerted to this post by LGM, I doubt I’d have seen it. (I’m allergic to McArdle.) It’s long, and meandering, and not very good, but it does include this whopper toward the end:

I’d also like us to encourage people to gang rush shooters, rather than following their instincts to hide; if we drilled it into young people that the correct thing to do is for everyone to instantly run at the guy with the gun, these sorts of mass shootings would be less deadly, because even a guy with a very powerful weapon can be brought down by 8-12 unarmed bodies piling on him at once. Would it work? Would people do it? I have no idea; all I can say is that both these things would be more effective than banning rifles with pistol grips.

You know, I was sort of waiting for someone to say this. As I recall, something you heard from this corner of the internet after the Virginia Tech massacre ran along these lines. It wasn’t a full-throated roar — in fact, if I’m remembering correctly, it mostly came from the terra cotta-toothed, since-disgraced John Derbyshire — but it was there, couched as a rueful observation about the decline of the American male: All those shots fired, surely he had to reload at least a few times. Why didn’t one of these young men rush him and take him down? What has happened to the masculine impulse? Were no first-graders brave enough to run at the madman with the gun? What sort of children were these?

I still haven’t gotten over the columnists who, after 9/11*, were back on their old hobby horses within days, in particular the conservative women who sneered at the stewardesses on United 93 who thought they might join in the rush to the cockpit, using hot coffee as a weapon.

* or, as paid-by-the-word Mitch Albom put it in Sunday’s column, “al-Qaida’s diabolical Sept. 11, 2001 attack.”

To Megan McArdle and her Libertarian buddies, I say: Sounds like a plan. You first.

I really need to stop this now. One last story, thanks to Jolene: How our gun culture is unique in the world, in four amazing charts.

Oh yeah, and this, too: How Newtown, given the opportunity to examine its gun culture and consider new ordinances controlling it, took a pass:

“This is a freedom that should never be taken away,” one woman said. Added another, “Teach kids to hunt, you will never have to hunt your kids.”

You know what Dr. Phil has to say about that.

Palate cleanser? PALATE CLEANSER, STAT. How about this, Professor Hank Stuever’s supplemental reading list to his class at the University of Montana, on the occasion of class’ end. Just scanning the list, much of which I’ve read but much of which I haven’t, made my heart soar like a hawk. I have a very busy day today and won’t have time to read much of it, but just looking forward to dipping into something tonight will carry me through the day.

And by then, I might be back to something approaching normal. Let’s hope so. Happy Tuesday, all.

Posted at 12:47 am in Current events, Media |

72 responses to “Denial, grief, anger.”

  1. Dexter said on December 18, 2012 at 1:02 am

    My longtime friend Greg, going back over 42 years since our army days, once help promote Jimmy Greene, a saxophone player.
    Greg is a native New Yorker who has resided in rural Connecticut for 34 years.

    Mr. Greene’s daughter was murdered by the Newtown madman last Friday. Following is a song Jimmy Greene wrote for his daughter, and following that is my friend’s email excerpt .

    “I learned today from a radio colleague that the daughter of a jazz musician we know was among the victims in Newtown on Friday. Jimmy Greene had just started teaching at Western CT State College in Danbury this semester, and I guess had taken up residence in Newtown for a convenient commute. I helped spread the word on this fine saxophonist’s talents when he was a student under Jackie McLean at the Hartt School at Univ. of Hartford.”

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  2. Jolene said on December 18, 2012 at 3:02 am

    There’s a very sweet piece of home video of Ana Grace Marquez-Greene singing w/ her brother.

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  3. ROGirl said on December 18, 2012 at 4:01 am

    Nancy, your links are kind of wonky today. They don’t work.

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  4. nancy said on December 18, 2012 at 4:39 am

    Fixed. Stupid WP app.

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  5. Minnie said on December 18, 2012 at 7:47 am

    I hope that outrage will translate into action. What I will keep in mind is the father and daughter I saw yesterday. They were headed into a store and both, but especially the father, radiated wariness. I don’t think they were anxious about finding the perfect Christmas gift for the mother.

    On Friday we’re to go to a party given by a long-time friend. Probably among the guests will be a few Second Amendment nuts, and I hope fervently to avoid them. The last time we were in this situation was before the election and I could not keep from going all political on them.

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  6. alex said on December 18, 2012 at 7:50 am

    So does McArdle get paid by the word also? Must be a nice gig, typing out every damn fool thing that comes into your head without any concern for the reader.

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  7. coozledad said on December 18, 2012 at 7:57 am

    I just wonder who told McArdle she had anything to say. She must have received at least some kind of logistical support from another idiot.

    There is no way something that stupid is the act of a lone typist.

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  8. Scout said on December 18, 2012 at 8:02 am

    I think McArdle got what she wanted out of that pile of word vomit. Lots of people giving her attention she wouldn’t have otherwise gotten.

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  9. Bob said on December 18, 2012 at 9:31 am

    It took four whole days after the shots were fired for me to run across the first piece arguing that the shooting was a planned provocation staged to abet a UN-disarm-US-civilians master plan. International bankers are involved.

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  10. BigHank53 said on December 18, 2012 at 9:36 am

    Megan McArdle is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Koch Industries, Inc. There’s no way to tell how congruent her original opinions were with glibertarinism*, but she is now a comprehensive supporter of plutocracy.

    Megan possesses that rare combination of gifts: a firehose-like facility with English (3,000-word posts are not unusual), above-average intelligence, and a level of self-satisfaction that’s usually only found in dictators. She’s not wrong. She’s never wrong. When she was business/economics editor, she once got a figure wrong by a factor of 1,000; then defended the claims made in the column. Over here– –one blogger has spent more time than I care to consider fisking Megan’s compulsive idiocies.

    Megan’s stupidity is all her own. Her rise to prominence*, however, will pretty much convince you that drinking heavily is a sane and rational response to modern American politics.

    *Libertarians usually wish to see a radical reduction in the power of the state. I could probably even name a couple if I had to. Glibertarians just think that the rules are for other people, usually those poorer or browner or less fortunate than themselves. They spout endless rhetoric about freedom, individuality, and meritocracy, but inevitably wind up voting a straight GOP ticket. see also Reynolds, Glenn

    **Look up David G. Bradley. Have a drink handy.

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  11. coozledad said on December 18, 2012 at 10:27 am

    What I’ve always wondered is if these people are the brains of your outfit, how are the troops able to avoid walking into oncoming traffic, or consistently avoid choking hazards or suffocating in laundry bags (accidentally)?

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  12. Danny said on December 18, 2012 at 10:37 am

    What I’ve always wondered is if these people are the brains of your outfit, how are the troops able to avoid walking into oncoming traffic, or consistently avoid choking hazards or suffocating in laundry bags (accidentally)?

    I agree with this and that is one of the funniest things I’ve read in a few weeks. Even know you probably don’t care, thanks, you owe me a keyboard.

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  13. Danny said on December 18, 2012 at 10:38 am

    “Even though” I meant, cripes I can’t think yet.

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  14. Bitter Scribe said on December 18, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Yes, Megan, you first. Take Derbyshire and Mark Steyn (who said the same obnoxious thing after Virginia Tech) with you.

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  15. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on December 18, 2012 at 11:03 am

    This is too long for a comment, but it’s my best attempt to sum up what I’m thinking right now. Plus, if you don’t want to know, you just skip clicking on it!

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  16. Charlotte said on December 18, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Wowza — so I texted my next-youngest cousin last night after the Ed Show was highlighting those huge magazine clips. He’s an FBI agent, who trains the SWAT team — a real gun guy. Was a Jr. National trap and skeet champion. He’s got kids now — two girls, 6 and 10 — asked him as a law enforcement guy and a dad, what possible justification is there for these clips? Got the full 2nd ammendment “we need guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government” back. Wha? Isn’t *he* the tyrannical government? Alarming on so many levels (and makes some of the crazy welling up from his father after my grandmother’s death make a little more sense).

    Do. Not. Understand.

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  17. Deborah said on December 18, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Maybe someone already linked to this, Charles Pierce has another good one

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  18. Minnie said on December 18, 2012 at 11:17 am

    A friend emailed this suggestion for my dilemma about Friday’s party at the bar (see #5).

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  19. John (not McCain) said on December 18, 2012 at 11:27 am

    I’m perfectly willing to consider McArdle’s recommendation, on the condition that she demonstrate its effectiveness first.

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  20. Danny said on December 18, 2012 at 11:35 am

    I’ve always thought the “tyrannical government” argument to be a very bad one for these modern times that we live in. Do any of these people realize that the “government” we speak of has so much technology and firepower that we might as well resort to shooting spitballs. They are less lethal and less likely to yield the result of AC-130 gunships hovering over our houses.

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  21. adrianne said on December 18, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Perhaps someone needs to point out to Ms. McArdle that the two adults who did rush the gunman – Principal Dawn Hochsprung and school psychologist Mary Sherlach – were both mowed down by Adam Lanza with his Bushmaster rifle. So, um, “rushing the gunman” is perhaps not the greatest deterrent in the world.

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  22. Mark P said on December 18, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Charlotte, I suppose your cousin’s attitude is consistent with some right-wing concept about gun ownership, but it is, of course, in direct opposition to the wording of the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. It’s dismaying that a federal officer would think that way, given the FBI’s oath to support and defend the Constitution.

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  23. mark said on December 18, 2012 at 11:41 am


    If a lightly armed civilian insurgency is easily subdued with AC-130 gunships and other superior technology, why did we have such difficulties in Iraq and Afghanistan. Those guys were just “shooting spitballs”, right?

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  24. Julie Robinson said on December 18, 2012 at 11:47 am

    mmJeff, I agree with much of what you say about young men, but I cannot support a homophobic group like the Boy Scouts. Our own experience with one troop (only one, mind you) was a militaristic emphasis on saluting and drilling. And God forbid you weren’t properly uniformed down to the last detail of the kerchief.

    Our Girl Scout experiences were so different; they were all about lovingly building up confident girls. And no one cared a whit about a uniform because they cared about the inside, not the outside.

    We were also part of the Indian Guides through the Y, and they did all the camping stuff while also focusing on learning about Native Americans. Professor Google tells me they have lost the Indian appellation and renamed themselves Adventure Guides.

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  25. Danny said on December 18, 2012 at 11:50 am

    mark, you may be right, but in Iraq and Afghanistan there seemed to be different rules of engagement in place than, say, during the firebombing of Dresden in WWII. Who’s to say that this could not change in the future.

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  26. Chris in Iowa said on December 18, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    Thank you for the supplemental reading list. I’ve read much of it, but not all of it. So much to read. So little time.

    The Gay Talese profile on Frank Sinatra reminded me of a profile on Talese that I saw a few months ago. Forgive me if nn.c is where I first saw this link, which is very possible. But I really liked this video. Wish I had a home office like that in which to write.

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  27. Charlotte said on December 18, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Well, that’s always been the crazy-paranoid side of the family, and while he’s never made any secret of the fact that one of the reasons he joined the FBI is because he really likes guns — I was quite shocked that fatherhood hasn’t changed his perspective that “the right to bear arms … is to protect a free people from losing their liberty through invasion, or more significantly, from a tyrannical government.” (Also, the mansplaining, even on a text exchange, was annoying. Now I remember why we spent half our childhood fighting –)

    My sweetheart pointed out last night as we were discussing this that all these so-called originalists miss the biggest point of the Constitution — that our democracy is based on one of the great experiments in collective action in history. Seems to me that our best protection from a “tyrannical government” isn’t a lot of guns, but a motivated and empowered electorate.

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  28. Sherri said on December 18, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    The Newtown massacre seems to have hit home for Cerberus Capital. Cerberus Capital Management is the private equity firm that owns Bushmaster, maker of the gun Adam Lanza used. Cerberus has announced that they are selling their subsidiary Freedom Group, which is their firearms holding company (they also sell military weapons to the US and other governments.)

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  29. Sherri said on December 18, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    More on private equity and guns:

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  30. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    That “rush the shooter” idiocy is similar to

    Let’s you and him fight. I’ll watch your stuff.

    Hot airplane coffee would make an effective weapon. Then again, tepid airplane coffee might be even more effective. Brown vitriol.

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  31. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    After taking a look at the Hank Stuever book Tinsel (I’m not much for non-fiction, but I might have to read that), I came across a story about this guy’s Christmas decorations in Athens, GA:

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  32. DellaDash said on December 18, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    I’m a fiction girl, myself, Prospero…but ‘Tinsel’ is a helluva stranger-than-fiction good read, and right in your wheelhouse.

    Excuse the trivolity (trivial frivolity), but ‘The Voice’ finale is tonight, and I told brian I’d get back to him with some feedback…so…

    …when a performance is visual, I will always be responding to body movement. (For instance, watching an early TV appearance of Mick Jagger where he was made to sit still on stage, was like seeing him in a straight-jacket. The song was dead. Noodle-body Jagger, spasing out all over a stage, is required for the combustion that delivers his raw vibe.) My friend Diana is tuned into vocal virtuosity…

    On the final six:

    Amanda, who you so pumped about, brian
    Me – liked her low register, but when she started to wail, it set my teeth on edge
    Di – she’s got Whitney chops, no doubt, but something is missing…like she isn’t always connecting with the lyrics. She should get her big voice to Broadway.

    Two-Toned Hair (Melanie?)
    Me – liked her fine
    Di – she’s good but at age 17, has a lot of maturing to do

    Tre (?)
    Me – enjoyed his performances
    Di – for 18 years he’s doing some amazing stuff, but, like 2-Tone, still needs to mature

    Scottish Guy
    Me – doesn’t need to sing, only talk in a Scottish burr and I’m seduced
    Di – cute and can sing…he should get into acting

    Me – like her fine…haven’t heard anything I’d buy (didn’t catch the ‘Stupid Boy’ performance)
    Di – she can sing!

    Red Beard Guy
    Me – Liked his cover of a Joe Cocker song mucho! Funky in his own way. My fav.
    Di – He’s kinda Dr Johnish with that New Orleans vibe. Her fav.

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  33. adrianne said on December 18, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    And…Gov. Rick Snyder’s approval ratings are in the dumpster after Right to Work nonsense.

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  34. Sherri said on December 18, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    Sports Illustrated’s 100 Greatest Sports Photos of All Time:

    Some real gems in there. Jackie Robinson stealing home plate. Bob Beamon in mid-leap. Two different views of Mazeroski’s home run, including my favorite, a fan reaction shot taken of fans watching from high overhead at the Cathedral of Learning, overlooking Forbes Field (number 46.)

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  35. Kirk said on December 18, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    Sherri, I love that Pittsburgh picture, too. I like the surreal quality. Hadn’t seen it until it showed up in someone’s magazine ad 8 or 10 years ago.

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  36. Sherri said on December 18, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    Kirk, I heard from a Pittsburgh friend that the picture was only recently discovered (where recently could well be 8-10 years ago – in other words, since I left Pittsburgh over 20 years ago.)

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  37. paddyo' said on December 18, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    BTW, Nancy and Jolene —

    Y’know that first chart in the Washington Post piece you cited about our unique American gun culture?
    The one showing the USA!-USA! with nearly 90 guns per 100 in population?

    Well, count on that stat to keep rising:
    Here in Colorado, home of a matching set of mass-murder bookends in Columbine and Aurora, the gun-buying hysteria reached a dubious record over the weekend.
    The Denver Post lead story today says more than 4,100 requests for gun-buyer background checks were filed with the state on Saturday, the day after Newtown.
    Most here in a single day, ever . . .

    Oh, and while digging out that link on The Post’s website, I noticed a fresh lead story on the home page about a pre-dawn triple-murder/suicide in one of the ‘burbs north of Denver.

    Still bleeding, America.

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  38. LAMary said on December 18, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    Paddy-o, are things weird in Colorado Springs? I know the whole Focus on Family thing is there. I applied for a job there and they have expressed serious interest in me. I remember it as a very nice city, but I’ve heard it’s got lots of stuff that I probably wouldn’t enjoy going on these days.

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  39. Dorothy said on December 18, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Sherri & Kirk – we have a poster of that Cathedral of Learning vantage shot in our office at home. When we first saw it, we could have sworn two of my brothers were in the picture. From the back the guy in the medium tone jacket and white shirt, and in front of him the dark jacket and white shirt who looks like he’s holding hands with the lady in front of him look so much like my oldest brothers, Greg and Dave. But the boys were 11 and 10 (but two months away from their birthdays) in October 1960, so it could not have been them. I was three years old and definitely remember the screaming and yelling at our house when the Buccos went all the way that day! My poor baby sister Chrissy (15 months old) cried and cried when everyone else was carrying on.

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  40. Dexter said on December 18, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    Sherri, thanks for the link to the SI pictures. I paused longest at #19. Wilt is wearing Chuck Taylor Converse All-Stars, the same shoe all of us on our high school team wore.
    What also caught my eye was the thick smoke in the background there at the new Philly Spectrum arena. Young people might be shocked to learn that smoking used to be allowed almost everywhere, and dense smoke clouds from thousands of burning cigarettes and cigars polluted the air in all indoor arenas.
    #49, showing Bob Cousy, is an outstanding photograph as well. Cousy was my very first boyhood NBA hero. I wore his uniform number 14 on my 6th grade homemade basketball jersey.

    #31, Hank Aaron, is a great photo. The Pittsburgh student-fans cheering from afar is special…I had never seen that one.

    I maintain that the single greatest moment in all sports history is depicted in #18. Don Larsen’s perfect World Series game from 1956. Don Larsen and Yogi Berra are both still alive.

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  41. Suzanne said on December 18, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    Bob @9 I wondered how long it would be before the conspiracy guys went into action. We all know that nothing just happens, don’t we?

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  42. Jolene said on December 18, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    Great pics, Sherri. Love the Forbes Field shot and all the flying basketball players.

    Paddyo’, Colorado is not unique in the upsurge of gun sales. I happened to see a report from Portland (Portland!) in which the dealer being interviewed said that this past Saturday–the day after Newtown–was his best day ever.

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  43. Dorothy said on December 18, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    I loved the contrast between #76 (glee being shown by Roger Staubach) and any of the other overly-celebratory current day athletes and their penchant for over reaction, when all they are really doing is what they are supposed to do – and get paid for – catch the ball, put points on the scoreboard, etc. I hate showboating, I really do. There’s natural enthusiasm and excitement, and then there’s showboating. Yech.

    Aren’t I a Sour Sadie today, though?!

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  44. Joe K said on December 18, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Butkas at 51, says it all for me, greatest linebacker ever.
    Pilot Joe

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  45. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    Shopping, shipping, done and done.

    The great thing about that Pittsburgh picture is seeing all the college young men in jackets and ties. In 1960. O tempora, O mores, as Marcus Tullius Cicero would say.

    I wonder what the current NFL commissioner would make of the hit on Gifford by Bednarik and Bednarik standing over ga-ga Gifford gloating in that SI photo. Different times. $million fine. I was hoping to see a picture of Kirk Gibson pumping his fist rounding 2nd after the tater off Eckersley, but I don’t think anyone ever got a still of that. I remember well watching Beamon go 29, and it was obviously amazing even before it was measured, back when it was still broad jump. The photo of Russell and Wilt is a great one too. Slender men, if you put them together, they might make one Big Aristotle. The Cousy shot is brilliant in portraying his ridiculous speed relative to the other players. The Havlicek stole the ball picture causes synesthetic memories for me of Johnny Most rumbling “Havlicek stole the ball. It’s all over.”

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  46. Dexter said on December 18, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Too easy, Pilot Joe…too damn many other great ones…off the top of my head, in no particular ranking order…lessee…linebacker, eh?
    Ray Nitschke Jack Ham Sam Huff (yeah, I really do remember seeing him play, eons ago on B & W television) Jack Lambert Joe Fortunato Kevin Greene Nick Buoniconti Junior Seau Joe Schmidt Bill George Mike Singletary
    OK…I will give you my All-Time Best Linebacker in History:
    Lawrence Taylor of Big Blue New York Giants, #56 on his back

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  47. Dexter said on December 18, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    prospero: Havlicek stole the ball…

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  48. Joe K said on December 18, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    Sorry Dex,
    Listen to those who played against him and watch the tape, those guys feared him
    Pilot Joe

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  49. Sherri said on December 18, 2012 at 5:15 pm

    I like the Jacques Plante photo, too. Playing hockey goalie without a mask, that’s intense.

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  50. Bitter Scribe said on December 18, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    Sherri: Except didn’t Plante become the first goalie to wear a mask?

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  51. Sherri said on December 18, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    He did, Bitter Scribe, which just shows that he was both intense and not an idiot!

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  52. paddyo' said on December 18, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    LAMary —

    Well, yeah, the Springs is home to Focus on the Family, plus Ted Haggard’s old mega-ministry, New Life Church. (Hmm, come to think of it, the rehabilitated Ted’s new but smaller church also is in the Springs.) It is HQ for a heavenly host of evangelical Christian religious org’s and ministries (100 or more by some counts), lots of Bible/hope/missionary/youth outfits (Bibles For The World, Compassion International, International Bible Society, New Hope International, The Navigators, Young Life, etc.).

    The Springs has a ton of military: Army’s Fort Carson, NORAD headquarters, Peterson AFB (Air Force Space Command) and a couple of other smaller bases, not to mention the Air Force Academy. Thus, it also has a considerable retired military cohort. After all, it’s a liveably sized city (pop. roughly 400K) in a spectacular setting (Pikes Peak, Garden of the Gods, funky Manitou Springs, elegant Broadmoor resort, etc.). Oh, and lots of Olympians, too (USOC training center/HQ).

    In addition (or perhaps because of), it’s a Republican stronghold — mostly white, fairly conservative. Maybe not as right-wing a fortress as Provo, UT or Lynchburg, VA, but the GOP runs things. The well-regarded and progressive Colorado College has thrived there for ages, so there’s at least some liberal leavening in the loaf.

    As for “weird,” well, depends on your definition. They sure are down on taxes (aren’t we all) — but to the point of drastic cuts in city services, staff, even turning off a third of their street lights, vs. raising their low sales and property taxes. Then again, you might detect a whiff of Prop 13 in that . . .

    Let’s say moving to the Springs might take a stretch, or at least require some cultural acclimation, for a progressive sort from L.A.

    For what it’s worth, here’s one measured take from someone who moved there from California about 15 years ago, presumably as a kid or teen:

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  53. Jolene said on December 18, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    Michelle Malkin lives in Colorado Springs. Running into her at the supermarket could ruin your whole day.

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  54. LAMary said on December 18, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    Thanks, Paddy. I knew about the military, and having graduated from DU, I definitely knew about Colorado College, one of our big hockey rivals. Does anyone bitching about taxes acknowledge that all the military and retired military are paid for with taxes?
    I know it’s a beautiful place and Manitou Springs is commutable. The houses are cheap compared to LA. We’ll see if the company I’m talking to is willing to fly me out for a talk. So far it’s all be long distance, but they like my resume.

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  55. LAMary said on December 18, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    Jolene, that depends on what I was driving when I ran into her.

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  56. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    Joe Theissman agrees with Dexter on linebackers. Joe Schmitt was a great LB for sure, as was his teammate Paul Naumoff (though he went to Tennessee).

    Masks for goalies in the old days were better, before they looked like video game art. They hand drew stitches marks on them. Hilarious.

    I was under the general impression that the whacknuttery in Colorado Springs emanates from the cultish born-againism of the Air Force Academy hierarchy.

    I too remember seeing Sam Huff play on b&w TV. For some reason, a couple of days ago, I was thinking about favorite Giants players from time back way back, two burners, Homer Jones and Spider Lockhart. It’s kind of hard to believe that the SI photos don’t include this one×10-sm-holo.html

    Which I believe can be called “iconic” without a whiff of irony.

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  57. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    The Y. A. stood for Ylverton Abraham. No wonder he went with the inits.

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  58. LAMary said on December 18, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    I don’t think the born again stuff is from the Academy. I think the Focus on Family and Ted Hazzard stuff surfaced in the eighties. I lived in CO in the seventies and the Academy (Zoomies!) was there but the Christian right wing stuff wasn’t.

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  59. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 6:39 pm

    And what about Ray Lewis at MLB, y’all?

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  60. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    Grain of salt with this source, but it’s the first I came across, and it reiterates stuff I’ve read in all sorts of media sources since the middle of the 90s:

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  61. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    Another Socialist organ heard from.

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  62. MichaelG said on December 18, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    Talk about a real palate cleanser! The tamale lady showed up today and I got a dozen of the best. It’s been several months. Mary, Catherine, Danny, you guys have a tamale lady come to the place where you work?

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  63. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    Actually, I’d say the best MLB in the NFL currently is Patrick Willis. It’s hard to say, with teams playing three down and four backers, but Willis is fast, ferocious and fearless. I doubt any of the old time guys could run with the newest generation at that position. Mike Curtis was another maniac LB:

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  64. Sherri said on December 18, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    Pros, the Niners play a base 3-4 defense, but the combo of Willis and Navorro Bowman at inside linebacker is a nasty one. I’m hoping that Marshawn Lynch can find a few holes on Sunday night.

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  65. Catherine said on December 18, 2012 at 7:35 pm

    Tamale lady… if only. I work from home mostly. But I am getting my 6 dozen tamales from the Corn Maiden on Thursday at the South Pasadena farmer’s market! Yes, I’m psyched, and yes, we will eat them ALL.

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  66. LAMary said on December 18, 2012 at 8:06 pm

    No tamale lady here, but plenty of them in my neighborhood. Where I used to work there was one but I think the hospital might frown on someone wandering the hallways with a tub of tamales.

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  67. Sue said on December 18, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    Dear Teachers of America, or at least those in Tennessee and Texas and apparently a growing number of other states who might be asked to pack during school hours:
    In addition to your education duties, the citizens of this country are entrusting you with the responsibility of maintaining the safety of our precious children. It is, of course, ridiculous to think of hiring a trained law enforcement professional to police our school halls, that would be asking too much of taxpayers. Instead, in the event of an attack by a crazy person bent on destroying another safe haven in our communities, you will be expected to act and react with the same precision and focus as the police officers whose surrogates you are expected to be. With minimal training and practice, of course, unless you want to do that on your own time.
    So, in addition to acting as a teacher, counselor, social worker, nutritionist and diagnostician, the tiny matter of SWAT responsibilities will be added to your job description. Please remember that this new responsibility will not include any extra respect from your community, as you will continue to see school board members elected on their ability to portray you as grasping and greedy. There is only so much we are willing to do, really; after all, you only work nine months a year.

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  68. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    Sherri, I saw Willis play in person in college. He was a monster player even then. Extremely fast and a very sure tackler, which art seems to be in decline.

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  69. basset said on December 18, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    Just mentioned this on yesterday’s thread and wanted to get it out there again:

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  70. Prospero said on December 18, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    Football folks: Which was funnier, Romo’s Butt-Face-Plant or McFadden getting his helmet stuck to a DB? Both fracking hilarious, but I have to say Romo running his mug into the Right Guard’s ass.

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  71. susan said on December 19, 2012 at 12:14 am

    Yeah, that’s about right. Seven with women as subjects. Out of a hunnert. Surprised it was that many.

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  72. Dexter said on December 19, 2012 at 12:17 am

    prospero: The helmet lock was a real hoot. Also, I was waiting for you to bring up Ray Lewis. I left him off my list because I don’t like him. I cannot deny he’s right up near the top, as is Butkus. Joe, I just meant Butkus wasn’t the only great LB…I remember what a legend he was and is…so iconic. Another great icon from back in the 1950s is Paul Hornung. My high school friend went to Notre Dame in the fall of 1966 and even then, ten years after Paul Hornung had left ND for the pro league, Hornung stories were legendary. Paul played halfback, quarterback and place kicker.
    Many times Paul was found after curfew on the wrong side of that little lake that separates Notre Dame from the St. Mary’s campus. There were plenty of places to hide with the St. Mary’s cuties off the pathway that surrounds that lake, and plenty of places to sneak into when the winter came.

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