The list lengthens.

I had a few notes tucked into a draft post, but once again, the week has been overtaken by events – both breaking just this afternoon.

I’m thinking specifically of Roy Moore and Louis C.K., of course. The Moore story is the grossest, of course, for a number of reasons. Some are obvious, but to me, it was noting the age of consent in Alabama (16, of course). Because it’s not enough to point out that a 32-year-old man was trying to date a girl literally half his age and barely able to drive. You have to note that it could be, technically, legal.

Man, Alabama is a weird place:

Wendy Miller says that Moore approached her at the mall, where she would spend time with her mom, who worked at a photo booth there. Miller says this was in 1979, when she was 16.

She says that Moore’s face was familiar because she had first met him two years before, when she was dressed as an elf and working as a Santa’s helper at the mall. She says that Moore told her she looked pretty, and that two years later, he began asking her out on dates in the presence of her mother at the photo booth. She says she had a boyfriend at the time, and declined.

Her mother, Martha Brackett, says she refused to grant Moore permission to date her 16-year-old daughter.

“I’d say, ‘You’re too old for her . . . let’s not rob the cradle,’ ” Brackett recalls telling Moore.

Miller, who is now 54 and still lives in Alabama, says she was “flattered by the attention.”

“Now that I’ve gotten older,” she says, “the idea that a grown man would want to take out a teenager, that’s disgusting to me.”

It’s times like this I can almost thank God for Twitter, which gives such an immediate voice to the ones screaming in my head. Right now, I’m reading that some Breitbart guy is on the radio defending Moore because three of the four girls were “legal” and Moore himself was single at the time. Good to know!

Oh, and here’s the Alabama state auditor:

Moore began dating his wife Kayla around this time, according to Ziegler. “He dated her. He married her, and they’ve been married about 35 years. They’re blessed with a wonderful marriage and his wife Kayla is 14 years younger than Moore.”

Asked whether or not the report would upend Moore’s campaign, Ziegler predicted that Alabama voters would be angrier at the Washington Post for “desperately trying to get something negative” than Moore for his dalliances with teenage girls decades ago.

“He’s clean as a hound’s tooth,” Ziegler claimed, before relying on Scripture to defend Moore.

“Take the Bible. Zachariah and Elizabeth for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist,” Ziegler said choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. “Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

Yes, that’s true, but as I recall from my catechism class, Joseph kept his hands to himself and they both died virgins. So there’s that.

And then there’s Louis C.K., whose thing was whipping it out. Whipping it out and polishing the bishop in front of women, while they…sat in frozen horror? Tried to leave the room? I imagine the reaction is part of the fun for these creeps.

Glad to see some nuance noted here:

For comedians, the professional environment is informal: profanity and raunch that would be far out of line in most workplaces are common, and personal foibles — the weirder the better — are routinely mined for material. But Louis C.K.’s behavior was abusive, the women said.

“I think the line gets crossed when you take all your clothes off and start masturbating,” Ms. Wolov said.

Yes, I’d say so.

Men! Are we going to have to go over the rules again? Apparently so. They’re almost identical to the ones for whether you should ever send a lady a dick pic, and they boil down to this: No. With a trusted partner who has expressly given consent to watching you do that? Sure. With everyone else? No.

OK, then. I have an evening thing tonight and then a housecleaning date with myself tomorrow. Best hop to it. Have a great weekend, all, and may no one appear before you in tighty whiteys unless you’ve asked them to.

Posted at 4:41 pm in Current events |

136 responses to “The list lengthens.”

  1. Deborah said on November 9, 2017 at 4:53 pm

    Go back and read Coozledad’s comment near the end of the last thread if you haven’t already done so and also go to the link he provides there. We think things are bad now (i.e. C.K. etc) this has been going on for eons. I hope that the fear of getting outed will at least stop some of it.

    Also, I got my Roys and Rogers mixed up in my comment on that thread.

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  2. Peter said on November 9, 2017 at 5:31 pm

    Polishing the bishop? I think this is more in the choking the chicken territory.

    Some years back a person was arrested who would do something similar to women in a particular hospital’s recovery room. My coworker said: “It takes a special person to see someone come out of surgery, wearing hospital garb, all pasty from the surgery, probably has a huge bandage or two on, and go “BOY that makes me horny!!!”

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  3. Peter said on November 9, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    And another thing: Boy, that Roy Moore is just going to be a gift that keeps on giving, isn’t he.

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  4. coozledad said on November 9, 2017 at 5:45 pm

    I’m just waiting for Roy Moore’s holiday special. I’ve got a feeling it’ll become a Christmas tradition.

    Bet he isn’t Joseph at this year’s living nativity.

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  5. basset said on November 9, 2017 at 6:25 pm

    An article about store returns:

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  6. Charlotte said on November 9, 2017 at 8:12 pm

    Thank goodness for this freelance gig so I could send Doug Jones $100 this afternoon. If the Democratic Party doesn’t show up in Alabama with every resource it has I’m going to give up what few shreds of hope I had for it. What could be more clear? Are you for the pedophile racist? Or for the GUY WHO PROSECUTED THE KKK ASSHOLES WHO BLEW UP THOSE LITTLE GIRLS? (sorry to shout, but really.)

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  7. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 9, 2017 at 9:31 pm

    I have a horrid feeling Moore will stay in the race, and will not lose by a landslide. If he wins, even worse, but it’s bad enough he’s not likely to be disavowed by his supporters. There’s already too many I’ve heard here in Ohio ready to lead with “well, he was single. That’s a little young, but did he know what her age was?”

    Meanwhile, in DC, this was an interesting take on Carter Page’s encounter with the joys of a congressional investigation –

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  8. beb said on November 9, 2017 at 11:20 pm

    Is there a Republican who isn’t at heart a sex pervert?

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  9. coozledad said on November 10, 2017 at 12:03 am

    The links are authoritarianism and regressive male identity. It’s not an exclusively Republican domain. Just prepronderantly.

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  10. Icarus said on November 10, 2017 at 6:16 am

    Rufus: Mary gave birth to Christ without knowing a man’s touch, this is true, but she did have a husband. And do you really think he would have stayed married to her for all those years if he wasn’t getting laid? The nature of God and the Virgin birth are all leaps of faith, but to believe a married couple never got down…well that’s just plain gullibility!

    From the movie Dogma

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  11. Mark P said on November 10, 2017 at 8:46 am

    I was telling my wife that Alabama Republicans would vote for Moore if they personally witnessed him sodomizing Jesus on the courthouse steps. Then Slate had a piece saying essentially the same thing. As you may guess, I don’t have a high opinion of Alabama, Republicans, or, especially, Alabama republicans.

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  12. coozledad said on November 10, 2017 at 8:58 am

    This is the Republican party. A nidus of cockroaches.

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  13. Deborah said on November 10, 2017 at 9:20 am

    When you read the circumstances of how Moore started a relationship with the 14 year old, it is telling. She’s with her mom, who’s about to go into a courtroom about a child custody case, they don’t say it but it was probably a case involving the girl herself. So Moore knows this child is probably vulnerable to his advances in the first place. One can only imagine as a lawyer, how many times he took advantage of young women going through trying times. Disgusting. No wonder he’s such a sanctimonious bastard now, he didn’t marry until he was 38, so there are probably a bunch of these cases waiting in the wings. But what is almost more disgusting are the people who are coming to his defense, saying it’s no big deal. What is wrong with people?

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  14. Michael Einheuser said on November 10, 2017 at 9:33 am

    Stay out of downtown Detroit if you don’t want to see men (and presumably) women running in tight underwear.

    Briggs Detroit’s photo.
    Detroit Santa Speedo Run
    Public · Hosted by Briggs Detroit and The Greening of Detroit

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  15. Icarus said on November 10, 2017 at 9:34 am

    “But what is almost more disgusting are the people who are coming to his defense, saying it’s no big deal. What is wrong with people?”

    How much do you want to bet that if we took the same situation but changed one variable — the color of the man’s skin, or make him Muslim instead of Christian — and oh the pearl clutching!

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  16. coozledad said on November 10, 2017 at 9:46 am

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  17. Deborah said on November 10, 2017 at 9:55 am

    It’s snowing in Chicago. My husband has been visiting his uncle about 2 hours north of Chicago, where the wind chill is 2 now. Winter is here, not much of a fall.

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  18. Julie Robinson said on November 10, 2017 at 9:57 am

    The speed of these revelations, after years of silence, is stunning. You have to wonder who will be next. It’s uncomfortable but important.

    Cooz, I always learn new vocabulary from your posts; had to look up nidus.

    And I really thought Nance remembered catechism wrong about Mary and Joseph; after all the New Testament is full of references to Jesus’ family members and even says Joseph didn’t have union with her until after Jesus was born. But googling around I found some mighty fine tap dancing on the issue by Catholic theologians, mostly along the lines that brothers and sisters can be interpreted as cousins or friends. Okey-dokey, then!

    Edit: Deborah, I spent most of the fall in Orlando, and this weather is hitting me with brutality. It’s harder every year.

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  19. Deborah said on November 10, 2017 at 10:05 am

    A thirty-something year old guy dating teenagers is just gross. Even if they’re over the age of consent, it’s dispicable. Here’s a guy who went to law school and was a practicing lawyer for years while he was doing this. What in the world did he think he had in common with those young girls? What did they talk about on dates? I mean these girls were barely done playing with dolls. They were in high school. One woman said she dated him openly when she was 17 said he was romantic, wrote her poetry and played the guitar for her. She was 17 and he was in his 30s!

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  20. Peter said on November 10, 2017 at 10:09 am

    I am a guy who always sees the glass as 1/4 full, so I do think there’s a silver lining with Mr. Moore – Steven Bannon and the Mercers have just become the George Soros of the GOP. Any GOP pseudo moderate who gets challenged by a RWNJ (paging Dr. Kelli Ward) and out will come the commercials showing the nutty candidate, Roy Moore, and Steve “the pedophile enabler” Bannon. And, should any of those yahoos make it past the primary, it’s going to be open season on them.

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  21. Jeff Borden said on November 10, 2017 at 10:10 am

    I’ll bet you dimes to doughnuts that Roy Moore is elected. This is a man who was tossed off the Supreme Court twice for violating federal law –displaying the Ten Commandments and refusing to accept the legality of gay marriage– yet it only made him more powerful. His “charity” was a scam that funneled hundreds of thousands into his account, but those reports are ignored by Alabamans. And the accusations came from that Bezos/Amazon/Washington Post liberal snake pit, which all true ‘Muricans know is directed by Beezlebub himself. \

    Watch and see. He’ll be Senator Roy pretty soon.

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  22. Charlotte said on November 10, 2017 at 10:16 am

    The thing with young girls is a core belief among the homeschooling evangelicals — they advocate pairing young girls off with older men who will “mold” them into “proper helpmeets.” There’s a lot of $$ and political activism that’s come into the GOP from this group — and if you can stomach it, Kathryn Jones book Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement is a very thoroughly researched expose of this gang. Of whom Roy Moore is right in their sweet spot.

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  23. Heather said on November 10, 2017 at 10:16 am

    Hate to say it but Jeff B. may be right. Moore actually sent out a fundraising letter capitalizing on these charges:

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  24. Deborah said on November 10, 2017 at 10:20 am

    Don’t get me started on Trump and the five prostitutes he was offered that night in Moscow. I for one will watch every minute of the pee tapes when they finally come out.

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  25. Sherri said on November 10, 2017 at 11:04 am

    When you don’t regard women as human beings with autonomy and agency to begin with, what’s the big deal?

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  26. coozledad said on November 10, 2017 at 11:07 am

    I’ll bet Putin has had those prostitutes killed.

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  27. Deborah said on November 10, 2017 at 11:12 am

    Here’s an interesting take on Moore’s chances. The last part makes me hopeful

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  28. Scout said on November 10, 2017 at 11:54 am

    Trending on Twitter: #StatutoryRoy & #RoyMooreChildMolester

    Dear pedo apologists: please, continue. Keep talking. We’re listening. And we’re remembering who you are. Hannity is all in. I’m sure that we’ll soon hear the official FoxNewsTalkingPoints via one starry eyed sycophant who likes to stir the turd here at nn.c. I won’t call him out. (But his name rhymes with Dial It Slow.)

    Last night, driving home from a poetry slam at about 9:40 MST, Spouse and I saw a huge meteor streaking downward, straight ahead of us. We were driving due west. It was so cool, especially that we both saw it!

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  29. coozledad said on November 10, 2017 at 11:55 am

    The baseline for the GOP is raw evil.

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  30. alex said on November 10, 2017 at 12:19 pm

    I’d lay money on it that Dial It Slow voted for Governor My Pants.

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  31. Deborah said on November 10, 2017 at 12:20 pm

    Thinking back about my high school days, if I had heard of any teenage girl in my school or anywhere, dating a guy in his 30s I would have been horrified. Do any of you know of anyone in that scenario? I mean I know sometimes students get in relationships with teachers, there was one incidence of that in LB’s high school, but I believe the teacher was in his early 20s, not that that makes it OK. It just doesn’t seem like that much of an age spread was common, in the least. Am I wrong?

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  32. Jolene said on November 10, 2017 at 12:32 pm

    It just doesn’t seem like that much of an age spread was common, in the least. Am I wrong?

    No, you’re not wrong. My sister’s husband is 19 years older than she is, but she was 32 when they got married. Different story.

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  33. Sherri said on November 10, 2017 at 12:46 pm

    There was a student in my high school who married a teacher right after graduation, and the teacher was in his 30s. But I grew up in the South.

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  34. Charlotte said on November 10, 2017 at 12:53 pm

    My father has married two women that he met when they were in their late teens. My Beloved Stepmother was 19 when he started dating her — he was 38 (I was 11). They were together 15 years before he fled to Prague (To “be Earnest Hemingway in Paris in the 20s” — genuine quote, he said it without irony). There he met his 3rd wife, also 19 at the time. He was, by then, 59. They’re still together.
    And I was told all my life that I was being a scold for thinking it was all skeevy as fuck.

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  35. Peter said on November 10, 2017 at 12:58 pm

    In my mom’s neck of the woods (Serbia) that’s the norm – my grandfather was 15 years older than my grandmother, for example.

    You needed some time to accumulate enough dinars to keep the lovely young thing at home with the kids…

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  36. ROGirl said on November 10, 2017 at 1:07 pm

    My mother took up with someone 22 or 23 years younger than her, which caused my father to kick her out of the house (I think she was looking for a substitute son, my brother was around 18 or 19 at that point). They ended up getting married. She died last year at the age of 93. He died the year before, not sure of the exact cause, but he was an alcoholic. I thought she drove him to drink, but apparently his father was an alcoholic, too.

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  37. ROGirl said on November 10, 2017 at 1:10 pm

    My mother took up with someone 22 or 23 years younger than her, which caused my father to kick her out of the house. They ended up getting married. She died last year at the age of 93. He died the year before, not sure of the exact cause, but he was an alcoholic. I thought she drove him to drink, but apparently his father was an alcoholic, too.

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  38. coozledad said on November 10, 2017 at 1:57 pm

    There is, or should be, an unbridgeable gulf between a grown man and an adolescent: one of experience, intellect, maturity, self awareness…
    If you find yourself trolling for youngsters you suck at life, and you are a clear and present danger in a host of ways. A failure to understand the nature of consent is the most violently systemic psychological flaw, one that can only be addressed with incarceration.

    The entire Republican party has a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of consent, and it will continue to entertain that misunderstanding until it is shamed out of existence, or jailed.

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  39. Peter said on November 10, 2017 at 2:22 pm

    I just saw Louis CK’s response to the NY Times article on Slate.

    Roy Moore: read it and take notes.

    I don’t for a second condone what Louis did, but this is no run of the mill weasel word apology.

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  40. Bitter Scribe said on November 10, 2017 at 2:24 pm

    Over on Wonkette, a woman in the comments recounts how one guy, on the first date, excused himself to the men’s room, then texted her a dick pic from there.

    Whew. I thought I’d heard of some weird courtship rituals but…

    Regarding Moore: I notice he’s saying the allegations are vile, disgusting, etc., and even soliciting money that way, but he’s not denying them.

    Yes, Roy, it is vile and disgusting for a 32-year-old man (a criminal prosecutor!) to strip a 14-year-old girl down to her undies and try to get her to jack him off.

    Regarding Louis CK: Too bad. I’d always kind of liked him.

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  41. Jolene said on November 10, 2017 at 2:59 pm

    I don’t for a second condone what Louis did, but this is no run of the mill weasel word apology.

    I agree. Some FB commenters objected to the fact that he does not actually say “I apologize,” and others were critical because he referred to the idea that these younger female comics admired him. I suppose one could rephrase in certain ways, but I read his statement as an expression of deep regret and a promise to be different.

    Especially compared to what we’ve seen from other recently revealed perpetrators, his statement is mature, eloquent, and seemingly authentic.

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  42. Deborah said on November 10, 2017 at 3:02 pm

    I realize there are a lot of what used to be called May-December relationships but they usually don’t start when one of them is still in high school. After I was divorced and before my husband and I got together seriously l had a brief fling with a guy 6 years younger than me, I was 38 or 39 at the time and I was uncomfortable knowing he was younger than me, even though it wasn’t that many years difference. My husband is 3 years older than me,

    It’s turned into a sloppy day in Chicago, I just got back from an errand, slippery in lots of places.

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  43. Joe Kobiela said on November 10, 2017 at 3:15 pm

    Really hate to disappoint you Scout, but haven’t had Fox News on in a long time, or any other news, its just all the same He said, She said.
    But if Nancy stops by, would like to know whats going on at U.M. Suspending the Greek system? Also are you taking in the speedo run Sunday? Spectator or participent
    Pilot Joe

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  44. Jolene said on November 10, 2017 at 3:23 pm

    More accounts of things that shouldn’t have happened:

    Anthony Edwards

    Diana Nyad

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  45. Deborah said on November 10, 2017 at 3:45 pm

    I think Republicans are just digging their graves deeper and deeper. The more they say about Roy Moore the worse they sound.

    I read the Diana Nyad piece yesterday after one of my friends shared it on Facebook. My friend has a young daughter, they live in France now, she and her brother were adopted by my friend and his partner, when the kids were infants, both African American. My friend sat his daughter down after reading the Nyad story and had a long talk with her, she will soon be entering her teens, she’s very athletic and beautiful. I understand his concern for her. What a world.

    Jolene, the Anthony Edwards link didn’t work

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  46. coozledad said on November 10, 2017 at 3:47 pm

    its just all the same He said, She said.

    No. It’s she said, and she said, and she said,and she said,and she said, and she said,and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said, and she said.

    I can’t believe social services let you keep your children, boy.

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  47. Scout said on November 10, 2017 at 3:56 pm

    “He said, She said.” Ohhhhhhkayyyyy, … wow, you never disappoint.

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  48. Charlotte said on November 10, 2017 at 4:11 pm

    Try this one for Anthony Edwards:

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  49. Heather said on November 10, 2017 at 4:25 pm

    Here’s another viewpoint on the Louis CK apology:

    I guess I just don’t understand in what world it’s OK to ask if you can pull out your dick during casual conversation.

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  50. Joe Kobiela said on November 10, 2017 at 4:44 pm

    Ok Ill try to explain in a simple way He said,she said.
    Now pay attention, one side says one thing happened,the other side says the opposite thing happened.
    He said, she said.
    Pilot Joe

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  51. susan said on November 10, 2017 at 4:50 pm

    Guess I will put this here again. It never grows old. I wonder if part of the problem is that men have that thing dangling right down there in front of them all the time, and they have to mess with it every day, several times a day, just to pee. Constant reminder of, oh yeah, that thing. That thing that that thing does.

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  52. coozledad said on November 10, 2017 at 4:50 pm

    Dick for a brain.

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  53. susan said on November 10, 2017 at 5:18 pm

    Melissa McEwan has something to say about Louis CK. She’s a very powerful writer/thinker about this subject, in particular.

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  54. Heather said on November 10, 2017 at 5:24 pm

    One side says something didn’t happen, multiple people on the other side who don’t know each other and have no real reason to lie say it did.

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  55. Sherri said on November 10, 2017 at 5:39 pm

    I do hope that we’re at a turning point, that we will change our ways in regards to sexual harassment and sexual assault, but then I remember that it was only last year that Brock Turner got a six month sentence for raping a woman on the Stanford campus, and he only served three months of that sentence.

    I don’t think anything will really change until there are more women in positions of power. That’s why I’m seeking out women to run for office and supporting them. Sorry, guys, I’m done with “all things being equal, I’ll support the woman,” because things are never equal. I am supporting women who are qualified, period, not just women who are equally qualified or more qualified. Do they meet threshold? Good enough for me!

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  56. Scout said on November 10, 2017 at 5:46 pm

    Thanks for mansplaining, ‘He said, she said.’ Oh, the irony.

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  57. Sherri said on November 10, 2017 at 5:51 pm

    I’ve been trying to decide what Joe meant by his post, but finally just decided to apply Hanlon’s Razor.

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  58. David C. said on November 10, 2017 at 5:54 pm

    Now the Kentucky Republican says every income group would see a tax cut — on average.

    On average, every American has one testicle and one breast too.

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  59. Joe Kobiela said on November 10, 2017 at 6:07 pm

    I’ll try one more time, I’m not talking about Louie CK or the Alabama senator, i was speaking about not watching the news, either fox or one of the mainstream, one network says one thing and the other says the complete opposite on the same story.
    Sorry if you didn’t understand.
    Pilot Joe

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  60. Bitter Scribe said on November 10, 2017 at 6:17 pm

    Sorry if we don’t believe your explanation, Joe.

    It turns out that even prisoners like to flog the bishop at female guards. Geez, you’d think there’d be no power imbalance here, but apparently the guards are being told (no doubt by male supervisors) that it’s all “part of the job.”

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  61. jcburns said on November 10, 2017 at 6:35 pm

    Joe, you don’t seem all that willing to believe the woman, the other three women with similar stories, and the two dozen or so corroborating interviews from people on the record in the same story.
    We’re talking an amazingly well-sourced Washington Post report. Reported and written by people who went out and did the hard work of reporting. If you put that up against a cable news network—Fox News—that is basically just reacting to that report and letting Moore emit statements that are, even on simple examination, non-denials….well, there’s no comparison.
    It is not he said, she said. And it really never should be.

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  62. jcburns said on November 10, 2017 at 6:39 pm

    And I think what really gets me about your flip “he said, she said” stuff is that it totally negates the reporters’ hard work. Here, I’ll put it in a way that might help you understand: it’s like when people say “pilots don’t really do anything, the autopilot does all the work.”

    The reporters did the work.

    The accusers had the courage to come forward and name names.

    Moore is guiltier than sin.

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  63. Julie Robinson said on November 10, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    A very apt comparison, JC.

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  64. nancy said on November 10, 2017 at 6:46 pm

    JC is exactly right. If you can’t understand that, you’re ignorant of how journalism works.

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  65. Sherri said on November 10, 2017 at 7:02 pm

    A friend of mine told me yesterday that his wife was sexually assaulted by a student at a nearby college. His wife is Asian, small, and teaches at the college. When she reported it to the administration, the reaction was basically “these things happen.” She was told she still had to allow the student into her office hours if he wanted.

    When my friend, an African-American Oregon linebacker, started walking her to her classroom since the college showed little inter in protecting her, they called security and told him he was banned from campus.

    My friend is not some steroid-raged hulk; he’s a fit man who is a successful lawyer with one of the name firms around here.

    This is recent, and happened here in the Seattle suburbs.

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  66. Deborah said on November 10, 2017 at 7:08 pm

    I was wrong about something I said here earlier. I said Moore was a 30 something practicing lawyer when he came on to the teenage women. In fact he was actually an assistant district attorney which makes it even worse when it comes to him having a power position. Super disgusting. An assistant district attorney was dating teenage girls when he was in his 30s.

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  67. Joe Kobiela said on November 10, 2017 at 7:46 pm

    Please believe me I was not talking about the sexual allegation, {he said,she said,}
    I was speaking about how one network spins a story on way and the other networks spin its another way.
    Pilot Joe

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  68. Mark P said on November 10, 2017 at 8:10 pm

    Sherri if that had happened to my wife and the school had responded that way, their next communication from me would have been a gigantic lawsuit for failing to provide a safe workplace. And I would have started looking for other women who had similar experiences. I might also have asked for a meeting with a good reporter.

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  69. Rana said on November 10, 2017 at 11:14 pm

    And, Joe, what people are saying (and you seem to be ignoring) is that it’s not just “spin.” It’s one organization making shit up, and another one relying on extensive research and interviews. When you’ve got all the facts on one side, it’s by definition NOT a “he said, she said” situation.

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  70. Dorothy said on November 11, 2017 at 5:08 am

    Joe if you haven’t watched tv news ‘for a long time’ as you said @ comment 43, htf would you even KNOW that it’s ‘he said/she said’? The hole you’re digging for yourself is bottomless. Maybe it’s time you give up trying to argue your way out of it.

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  71. ROGirl said on November 11, 2017 at 6:13 am

    I was trying to edit and posted twice, oops.

    Did any network try to defend Anthony Weiner? Indefensible behavior shouldn’t have a political bias.

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  72. coozledad said on November 11, 2017 at 7:26 am

    This is the party of Dennis Hastert. They’re a stain.

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  73. alex said on November 11, 2017 at 9:06 am

    Scrolling through nymag this morning there was nothing but one depressing headline after another. Now someone’s accusing George Takei of sexual aggression. This carnage, it ain’t pretty. So I clicked on the one headline that promised some levity:

    Note the link at the bottom to an item about pumpkin spice causing a school evacuation.

    I guess “fart” is part of the casual lexicon now. I didn’t even realize I’d used it until after I received a phone call from my bank just this week asking why I was late on a credit card payment. “Oh, I just brainfarted it. Let’s take care of it right now.” “I totally understand,” said the caller.

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  74. Deborah said on November 11, 2017 at 9:17 am

    After Trump has been trumpeting Putin’s innocence in the news today, could it be any more obvious that the Russians have some amazing dirt on him. I wonder if we’ll ever find out what it is?

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  75. alex said on November 11, 2017 at 9:28 am


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  76. coozledad said on November 11, 2017 at 9:51 am

    At this point, Trump could bottle Putin’s piss and sell it to his toothless base, and they’d drink it. It’s not like they haven’t been indulging every filthy cousinhumping perquisite for so many generations they conflate education with the devil and shit for food.

    Here’s Roy Moore’s bundle of recessive traits/attorney having a big spazzgasm on TV. Look at that fucker and tell me there’s anything approaching a moral case against abortion.

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  77. Deborah said on November 11, 2017 at 11:15 am

    My favorite reply to that tweet in Coozledad’s link is that the banjo playing kid in Deliverance got himself a law degree.

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  78. Jeff Borden said on November 11, 2017 at 11:48 am

    Nice to see the Orange King siding with Vladimir Putin over his own intelligence agencies. He told Little Donny he didn’t fuck with American elections and Little Donny swallowed it whole. What an ass. And look at how easily the Japanese and Chinese played him for a chump. Abe gave the bigot-in-chief a customized golf hat –with gold letters!!!– while Xi staged the kind of hugely elaborate events sure to bedazzle a not very bright nouveaux riche asshole from Queens. All the world knows that if you massage the ego of our pussy-grabbing prez, he’ll do anything you want.

    I’m kind of looking forward to see what SNL does with Roy Moore tonight. Not that a pedophiliac theocrat can be embarrassed or anything. Nor, apparently, can the Republican Party.

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  79. ROGirl said on November 11, 2017 at 12:06 pm

    Leave Vladdy alone, you guys! He said he didn’t interfere in our election, and that’s good enough for me.

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  80. coozledad said on November 11, 2017 at 12:12 pm

    According to Putin spokesman Dmitri Peskov, the conversation never happened. The subject wasn’t even brought up.

    Trump’s lying about his lying. He wants to fire Mueller before Mueller takes him apart on the stand.

    There aren’t any good Republicans. They’re all in with Trump, and they’re all in with Russia.

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  81. Sherri said on November 11, 2017 at 2:33 pm

    More good local news from Tuesday’s election:

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  82. beb said on November 11, 2017 at 3:20 pm

    I was beginning a post a day ago contrasting CK Louis and Kevin Spacey to Roy Moore. Spacey is being edited out of a finished but unreleased movie while Louis has had two lucraive gigs cancelled. That’s how toxic Hollywood finds those men. Moore, on the other hand is still regarded as the front running the Alabama election. Toxic, not so much.

    Then I heard reports that our daughter, who has been in Indiana for a couple years looking after my Dad was not being treated well and dropped everything in mid-post to come bring her home, only to be talked into waiting a day. So this morning I was treated to an hour of local CBS news coverage. Everything seemed to have a decidedly conservative bias. This station, I think, was one brought out by the Sinclair Group, a noted conservative syndicate.

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  83. Deborah said on November 11, 2017 at 5:57 pm

    Off topic, not sure why I’m dropping this now but my husband’s uncle who is quite wealthy is a huge tipper when he goes out to eat or other venues where you tip.

    My husband and I used to eat lunch at a restaurant in Taos where the artist Agnes Martin frequently ate lunch. When she died she bequeathed her valuable white Mercedes to the usual waitress who waited on her there. I love stories like that.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

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  84. David C. said on November 11, 2017 at 6:58 pm

    I hope the waitress sold it. A Mercedes is quite a money pit for anyone, let alone a waitress.

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  85. Deborah said on November 11, 2017 at 7:26 pm

    I don’t know David C. That sort of burst the bubble for me.

    Is it just me or do others think this amazing point in this social and cultural moment where women are coming forward with #me too stories is going to take a nasty turn? By that I mean that high powered men are going to come out in force and squash the movement. Maybe it’s just my glass half empty penchant. I hope to god I’m wrong.

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  86. Icarus said on November 11, 2017 at 8:13 pm

    Good read for all,especially Pilot Joe

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  87. brian stouder said on November 11, 2017 at 9:45 pm

    I think there is an interesting under-tone in this (national) moment of discussion, about things that usually proceed without overt-comment….a sort of evil, perverse version of “Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus” kind of bullshit.

    I’d guess that every person that’s worked for – say – 20 years (or more) knows that some men are predatory shit-piles, and that those men feel enititled to act in a particular way toward particular women (whether younger, or who report to them, or whatever)…and that this ‘common knowledge’ gets conflated with ‘acceptance/normalcy’….

    despite that such behavior always was wrong, and always will be wrong, period.

    The fact that our current, altogether tiresome president is ‘all-in’ with the predatory shit-pile crowd truly wears me out.

    Lately I’ve been consuming a bit less news each day – so if I fall a bit more silent in the coming days (so to speak) – that’s what the malady is…

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  88. Mark P said on November 11, 2017 at 10:16 pm

    Icarus, I followed that link and I kept wondering, “Who the hell are these people? Why are all the men the writer knows so screwed up?” I really don’t know that many men who have that many problems with how to treat women. Maybe I’m sheltered, or maybe I just don’t hang with the “right” crowd.

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  89. Sherri said on November 12, 2017 at 12:18 am

    Mark, given the experience of women, you probably know more men than you think with problems around how to treat women.

    You may not notice it, because it’s just part of the culture. But we do.

    We practice avoiding the unwanted hugs and kisses. We notice the men who use terms for women as an insult. We are aware of the men who ignore us in professional settings, or diminish us. And those are the minor things, but those things matter, too. It’s wearing to deal with; it takes energy and effort that you don’t then have available to devote to your work. It makes you question your worth and whether you belong.

    So yes, Mark, I’m betting you do know men who aren’t clear on what it means to actually treat women as full human beings.

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  90. Deborah said on November 12, 2017 at 12:26 am

    Fantastic link Icarus. It makes me so glad that I’m not young, single or still working anymore. What a mine field that was.

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  91. adrianne said on November 12, 2017 at 6:31 am

    Even “woke” men like my husband were astonished to learn the prevalence of sexual harassment in the workplace and elsewhere. I do hope this is a breakthrough moment, but then, I thought Anita Hill was a breakthrough moment and look what happened after that? That POS Clarence Thomas gets onto the U.S. Supreme Court. We are women, hear us roar.

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  92. Deborah said on November 12, 2017 at 8:20 am

    So I read on FB that Roy Moore’s son was recently arrested for a hunting violation, but this is the 9th time he’s been arrested. The time before this one was for drug charges. Didn’t say what the other 7 times were for. Sounds like a troubled kid with a powerful dad.

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  93. Deborah said on November 12, 2017 at 9:20 am

    Wow, this is textbook, have you ever looked up demagogue in Wikipedia? It doesn’t mention Trump but it describes him completely. Especially when you read the methods demagogues employ, it’s kind of amazing

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  94. coozledad said on November 12, 2017 at 10:19 am

    Trump has defined his Presidency as a satrapy of the Russian Neo-Stalinist state. The Republican House and Senate make some faint noises of protest, but watch their actions. They see themselves prospering under this satrapy, so they’ll legislate every potatoey whiff that jets out of Putin’s ass. They’re traitors.

    They’ve reconfigured the judiciary the same way Republican state legislatures racially gerrymandered voting districts. Democracy can’t stand against traitors. Historically there are a limited set of options available to a citizenry whose rights have been stripped in the interest of a foreign power, but violence is chief among them.
    Republicans are now plotting to postpone an election where they’re stuck with an outed pedo candidate. A registrar in Virginia has sabotaged a district vote count by willfully denying access to absentee ballots, and in Georgia, election tallies have been scrubbed in the special election as an investigation was getting underway.
    If they won’t let you vote them out, you’ll have to burn them out. That’s all you’ve got.

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  95. coozledad said on November 12, 2017 at 10:30 am

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  96. coozledad said on November 12, 2017 at 10:33 am

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  97. Suzanne said on November 12, 2017 at 10:43 am

    I go back and forth between Tillerson being a Russian tool or Tillerson being utterly inept at his job. I suppose inept would be the best hope.

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  98. Deborah said on November 12, 2017 at 11:04 am

    Does this mean there are pee tapes out there with Tillerson in them? Lordy, that is a creepy thought, I don’t believe I would watch those.

    edit: The United States of Exxon Mobil

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  99. coozledad said on November 12, 2017 at 11:45 am

    Poland is a Fascist shithole. Always has been.

    I wish there were some way to reenslave its dumbass inbred population to a resurgent Mughal empire.

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  100. coozledad said on November 12, 2017 at 11:51 am

    Mughal Make that Timurid empire. They’d raze it and leave a tower of skulls.

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  101. ROGirl said on November 12, 2017 at 12:19 pm

    Masha Gessen’s take on survival in the Trump era, based on her knowledge of Putin’s Russia.

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  102. Icarus said on November 12, 2017 at 5:21 pm

    Poland is a Fascist shithole. Always has been.

    As an American of Polish descent, I’d appreciate if you wouldn’t paint with such broad strokes. We were not fascists when Pulaski and Kosciuszko stopped by and help train Washingtons troops so you could win the American Revolution.

    And If America had kept its promise and provided support during the Warsaw uprisings, perhaps WWII ends sooner.

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  103. Deborah said on November 12, 2017 at 5:49 pm

    I found the Masha Gesson piece extremely interesting. The fact that she circled back to look at how her predictions played out particularly. I can’t say that it was earth shattering, but what is? The comparisons of Trump’s behavior to totalitarian dictators and demagogues is of extreme interest to me right now. It’s scary.

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  104. coozledad said on November 12, 2017 at 6:01 pm

    That’s funny. My ancestors showed up here from the disease pits of Ireland, England, Germany and France, and aside from having to admit they were all trash having to crawl out from under the depredations of more moneyed trash, I never gave a thought to being anything other than being an American.

    I don’t know why people entertain the idea their cultural home was in some godforsaken tubercular poverty ridden backwater they were too poor to navigate as peasants, especially when most of them were driven out by hunger at best, and frequently at the point of some jumped up syphilitic Jaeger’s sword.

    I suppose I should have more sympathy since all of the Irish are supposedly kings, but taking a look around the hyphenated Micks in my genetic pool, it looks like they’re mostly kings of getting liquor in their bellies. Fuck the old country. Its people were ignorant, lax and lucky as fuck to be vomited up on these shores, given a sacred opportunity to eat and live just because they were whiter than somebody else. And they ought to take every opportunity to flay the fascists who’ll turn this country into yet another locus of uneducated cheap “white” labor.

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  105. alex said on November 12, 2017 at 6:06 pm

    Another winner for dinner. Mark Bittman’s pressure cooker porcini risotto.

    I took the liberty of adding some diced up and browned chicken breast. Delish. And all done in a New York minute.

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  106. Deborah said on November 12, 2017 at 6:28 pm

    Breitbart (Bannon) has sent reporters to Alabama to come down hard on the Moore accuser (the one who was 14) and this is what I meant when I said what I did In comment #85. Not that these reporters are powerful people, but I think this is an abomination. They will paint her as being a slut, you can bet on that. This is exactly why women don’t report these assaults. End of story.

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  107. Suzanne said on November 12, 2017 at 10:02 pm

    Why don’t women come forward? Why didn’t all those boys fondled by priests? It’s the same thing. Afraid, embarrassed, sure no one will believe them. Look what happened when a few kids did report the priests. Nothing, for the most part, not until years later when the evidence started flowing over the dam.

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  108. jcburns said on November 12, 2017 at 10:27 pm

    As another American of Polish descent, I too would appreciate if you wouldn’t paint with such broad strokes. It kinda negates anything good you say when you’re willing to negate millions of people based on a stereotype. This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes us split into factions beyond number, all sniping at each other.

    I think Dr. King would urge us to go the other way. Cooz, want to apologize?

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  109. Jakash said on November 13, 2017 at 12:22 am

    Uh, unpopularly and lamely adapted…

    First he came for Joe, and I did not speak out —
    because I was not a Troll.

    Then he came for Jeff (tmmo) and I did not speak out —
    because I didn’t live in Licking County.

    Then he came for every single freaking Republican and I did not speak out —
    because I was not a freaking Republican.

    Then he came for the Poles — and all Hell broke loose!

    (Well, I actually *did* speak out with regard to Jeff and every single freaking Republican, but that kinda ruins the effect…)

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  110. Dexter said on November 13, 2017 at 1:11 am

    Mom’s side of the family was easy to trace, since she told us: they came to shores as indentured servants from Switzerland… Bern, Switzerland in fact. Now I find they were living in tubercular pits of garbage and syphilitic shit and piss? Sweet dreams to THAT! Mom said they worked in Swiss watchmakers shoppes and as clerks in various stores in Bern…imagine…I wonder how the super-tidy and clean Swiss people stashed the hell-pits.

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  111. coozledad said on November 13, 2017 at 3:44 am

    Tribalism is an odd phenomenon, especially among people who got booted out of some whiteistan:

    Fascism, slavery and general cluelessness form a substantial part of the Euro legacy. I guess I just don’t get white pride. But you do you.

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  112. Deborah said on November 13, 2017 at 6:03 am

    Turns out from my sister’s DNA test that I’m way more British and Scandinavian than I thought. So you better not say anything about the uptight Brits and Scandinavians or you’ll hurt my fee fees.

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  113. coozledad said on November 13, 2017 at 7:04 am

    Old white dudes have been having a bad week. It shows. I think they ought to form a club and march around with tiki torches or something to celebrate their “heritage.”

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  114. coozledad said on November 13, 2017 at 7:37 am

    Deborah:I’m 2% sub-Sharan African, so by some of the logic of the guys on this thread, I’m H. Rap Brown. There’s no ethnically homogenous group on the planet, and there hasn’t been for thousands of years. The Poles themselves were part of the Khanate, so they’re at a minimum a mixture of Mongolian, Turkic, ethnic Chinese, Persian, Central Asian and everyone else who’s been kicking them across the landscape since they were white goblins wiping their asses with moss and worshiping a stick that fell out of a tree. And then they were Russia’s slaves, and then they weren’t, and now they’re itching to be Russia’s slaves again. You know, white people.

    To me, it seems ridiculous that folks nurse an amour propre about what flavor of jizz caused them to come about. It’s weird, frankly.

    There is no ethnic nation to be nationalist about. Japan comes close, but they didn’t fucking spontaneously generate. Ask the Ainu people about that.

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  115. coozledad said on November 13, 2017 at 7:45 am

    Today would be another good day to get down on our knees and kiss some Navy Seal ass.

    Every Navy Seal I’ve ever met was an eternal sixteen year old douchebro.

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  116. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 13, 2017 at 8:49 am

    I believe “misanthrope” is the word y’all are looking for.

    Not that misanthropes don’t have a fair amount of data on their side, most days.

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  117. coozledad said on November 13, 2017 at 8:59 am

    I’ll take it over old racist misogynist, any day. And it’s a hell of a sight better than torture apologist crypto Nazi.

    In the white room with white people near white station
    white roof country, no black people, no Hispanics
    Silver health plan Sunbeam toaster Hellmann’s mayo
    Dawn light smiles on propane grill of my contentment
    I’ll break off my arm where the sun never shines
    Digging for for gold where the pinworms fend for themselves
    Dressed in chinos, pastel Izod at white station
    Platform docksides, restless waistband, fuck you Windows®
    I walked into black line forming at white station
    As I walked out, felt warm urine in my chinos…

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  118. Heather said on November 13, 2017 at 9:16 am

    I experimented with my slow cooker this weekend and made this:

    Browned the meat first, didn’t have any olives, but still mighty good. I halved the recipe and it’s still too much for one person though. My neighbor is usually the beneficiary of these things.

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  119. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 13, 2017 at 10:47 am

    My wife hates olives, our one area of basic incompatibility. If it tasted good without, I’ll have to try it.

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  120. coozledad said on November 13, 2017 at 10:53 am

    Moore, Moore, Moore
    How d’ ya like ‘im
    How d’ ya like ‘im

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  121. Julie Robinson said on November 13, 2017 at 11:15 am

    With both sub-Saharan African and Ashkenazi Jewish genes, I’d fail the one-drop test a couple of different ways. My response is to quote CS Lewis, who said this in a children’s book: “You come of the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve,” said Aslan. “And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth. Be content.”

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  122. Sherri said on November 13, 2017 at 11:30 am

    Boys, stop fighting among yourselves long enough to read Rebecca Traister:

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  123. Connie said on November 13, 2017 at 11:48 am

    23andme says I am 100% European. I wanted it to tell me I was Dutch.

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  124. Jeff Borden said on November 13, 2017 at 1:12 pm

    This is two days old, but I’ve since read similar stories. Ol’ Roy’s voters are not the least bit disgusted by the aging pedophile. Hell, some of them say it will make them MORE likely to throw him their vote.

    This is the issue I confront when I’m told I need to understand Orange King supporters. In one of the stories I read earlier, a man in an Alabama town was asked about voting for Moore. He said something to the effect that this was “a Republican town, man. If he murdered Obama, we wouldn’t care.” Variations of this statement are made whenever the prospect of collusion with Russia, the enormous amount of cronyism and corruption in this administration, the barrage of lies unleashed every day are raised. Yeah, our leader is a genital grabbing con man and an inarticulate buffoon who appears to be suffering from dementia, but he ain’t no Demoncrat! How does one engage with these kinds of folks?

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  125. Peter said on November 13, 2017 at 1:25 pm

    Well, now there’s TWO silver linings to having Trump in charge (the first being that any state or local government, no matter how inept, looks good by comparison).

    Back in the day, when something from the past came out, it was the whole “that happened so long ago in my youth, I apologized for it then and I apologize for it now, and I’ve asked the Lord for forgiveness”, and hope for the best.

    Cowboy Roy Moore could have done that, and he would have done just fine, especially down in Alabama. BUT NO, thanks to the Trump Playbook, old Roy is doubling down and pretending to sue the Post, to hilarious effect.

    They always say that first thing you do when you’re in a hole is to stop digging, but these Trump guys, they’re a little slow on the uptake….

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  126. Mark P said on November 13, 2017 at 2:07 pm

    Jeff Borden — Moore could rape Jesus, Mary and Joseph at the pulpit in front of the entire congregation of any Alabama Baptist Church and the congregation would vote for him, just as long as he’s running as a Republican and he’s carrying his little pistol.

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  127. Peter said on November 13, 2017 at 2:23 pm

    Q. When did Trump learn to tell the difference between a chickpea and a lentil?

    A: When he learned that it doesn’t cost 10,000 rubles to have a lentil on your face!

    I’m here all week! Try the veal!!

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  128. Scout said on November 13, 2017 at 2:32 pm

    “…but he ain’t no Demoncrat! How does one engage with these kinds of folks?” You don’t. It’s a pointless waste of time. The best use of time is to find people who are sane but disengaged from politics and get them to vote like their life depends on it. Because it does.

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  129. Deborah said on November 13, 2017 at 3:40 pm

    I’m sorry, there may be a fifth accuser but did she have to get Gloria Allred involved? Anyone but Gloria, please.

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  130. Dexter said on November 13, 2017 at 4:10 pm

    Being reared Methodist in a tiny rural/small town in NW Indiana, I had never heard of Ashkenazi Jews until friends began sending in their spit and finding out they too are Ashkenazi, most of them are about 20%…none of them had a clue. I sent in that kit NatGeo had about ten years ago and all I got back was that my ancestors, over the centuries, began in what is now Iran and slowly spread across the Siberian Plain and “settled in Eastern Europe”. These modern DNA tests are more scientific, breaking down make-up percentages. To me, my supposed former-Iran location seemed , well, I will say I was very skeptical. Still, I am not compelled to check it anymore.

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  131. Icarus said on November 13, 2017 at 4:12 pm

    Roy Moore: Is keeping him around long enough to win the seat, then he resigns and the governor appoints his (republican) replacement a likely scenario?

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  132. Deborah said on November 13, 2017 at 4:32 pm

    And Icarus, there are rumors out there that his replacement would be Sessions, after they’ve replaced Sessions with someone who will relieve Mueller of his duties. Seriously.

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  133. jcburns said on November 13, 2017 at 4:39 pm

    Maybe I’ve missed it, but what specifically about Gloria Allred is so despicable?

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  134. alex said on November 13, 2017 at 4:50 pm

    Gloria Allred represented Paula Jones. I can still remember the spectacle of Paula Jones fake-crying while Allred defended her as a “feminist hero” at her first press conference. It was the most disgusting piece of GOP theater I’d ever seen — up to that point.

    Most people were familiar with Jones already by that point. She had been featured in a couple of Jerry Falwell’s Vince Foster murder conspiracy videos.

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  135. Deborah said on November 13, 2017 at 5:44 pm

    Allred has always struck me as an ambulance chaser. She shows up whenever there is a litigation spectacle, whether justified or not, she manages to be in the limelight sitting next to her client front and center on the tee vee. She makes me question the credibility of these cases. I’m sure that many of them are legitimate but her presence makes it seem lurid, IMO, obviously. I would love it if someone would prove me wrong, because some of the cases seem important, like the one involving the Trump accuser and of course this one involving Moore.

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  136. adrianne said on November 14, 2017 at 11:47 am

    Sorry, I love Gloria Allred. She’s a fighter.

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