I guess we’ve all been considering how we want to be in the coming weeks and months. How we want to conduct ourselves, think of ourselves later. Do we want to be heroes? Some people say that. They’ll shelter Anne Frank’s family, dammit! Screw those Nazis, they won’t hoard toilet paper!
I have no illusions about my own morality or ability to stand up to extraordinary measures. Sure, I’d put the Franks up, if they asked. But if the Nazis came snooping around later, or worse, the Serbs, and grabbed my daughter and threatened her with rape or worse if I didn’t talk? Yep, the Franks are in attic. We’ll just go out for coffee until you’ve dealt with them. No worries, I’ll clean up.
But we probably won’t have to deal with Nazis, or Serbs, in the coming misery. Rather, it’ll be poverty, and shortages and brother-can-you-spare-a-dime. I think, in that case, I want to be generous.
There are two kinds of generous. Foolishly so, and sensibly so. And a third, maybe: Just-because generosity. My boss gives a buck to every bum we pass on the street. It’s kinda comical. He engages them in conversation. He offers them small tasks in exchange for a few dollars more. He once stopped on the way back from lunch last summer to talk to a guy we both knew to be a heroin addict who grew up in Grosse Pointe and now sleeps rough, downtown. My editor was suggesting job opportunities, and the junkie was saying he couldn’t apply because he didn’t have a state ID. My editor said, “I could take you down to the library and show you how to get the documents you need, online.”
“Yeah, but you know? There’s an opportunity cost to that,” the junkie replied. I rolled my eyes so hard I actually may have sprained them, then said I would nip into the coffee shop we were standing in front of, because I could use a double espresso.
When I came out, they were still discussing the economics of giving up an hour or two of panhandling vis-a-vis the chance of getting a paying job later. I separated them – the junkie probably figured time chatting was money lost – and I laughed as we walked the final block back to the office.
“You are the world’s softest touch,” I told him. We agreed there are worse things to be.
You might call that foolish generosity, but as I’ve often told my husband: If I had to sleep on the street, I’d want to be high all the time, too. Giving a buck or two won’t change anyone’s life. But it might make the next hour a little better.
The spot outside my Saturday breakfast spot is popular with bums. They say they’re hungry. I ask what they want to eat, go inside and buy it, taking it out in a go box. “Make sure the wrappers go in the trash,” I say, then go back inside and have my own eggs.
I expect, in the coming days, weeks, months – people will lose their jobs. They’ll need help, need cash, need something I can maybe help them with. I want to do that. I’m not going to give away money to anyone who asks; I have needs, too. But I won’t be a pig about what I have. I’ll share. I’ll overtip. I’ll buy stuff I don’t need if I can afford it, and it helps the seller in some significant way. (Which is to say, bring me your Girl Scout cookies.) I don’t want to be an asshole, crouched in my bunker, thinking only of my own family. Stacking up boxes of ammo, or some other paranoid must-have.
Another friend of mine received this piece of mail at his house today:
It was a campaign mailer. Speaking of generosity.
God, this country. Enjoy Wednesday.
Deborah said on March 24, 2020 at 11:12 pm
So this is interesting to me, what’s happening at NN.c. Seems to me that there was definitely an uptick in comments which could probably be due to more people working from home etc. then yesterday there seemed to be fewer comments. I’m curious what’s going on. Online burnout? Less time because working at home means no escape from work? Emotional Malaise? What’s going on in your head?
alex said on March 24, 2020 at 11:17 pm
I remember when I was in my 20s and living in Chicago my mom would come for visits so she could take me out to restaurants she wanted to try out and go shopping on Boul Mich and she’d buy me clothes and things for my apartment. One time when we were approached by a panhandler who complained of hunger, my mom offered to take him into a deli and buy him some food. He cussed her out and made such threatening gesticulations that it cured her of wanting to ever help a bum again.
I’m enjoying working from home and hope when this shit’s all said and done that it will become a permanent arrangement. Not only do I not have to deal with the beggars on the street, but I don’t have to blow money on overpriced coffee and food, and if there are any distractions while I’m working they are pleasant ones rather than annoyances. I’d be a whole lot more productive, I suspect, and my employer could save a lot of overhead on office space.
Really, it’s a ridiculous waste to commute to a job you can do from home.
jcburns said on March 24, 2020 at 11:22 pm
I had a theory once, Deborah, that whenever I commented, it threw cold water on the thread of comments and maybe I shouldn’t do that.
But I think it’s hard to correlate and speculate, because blog comments are a great mystery of life.
Looking forward to your academic paper on it though…
LAMary said on March 24, 2020 at 11:54 pm
I usually am pretty generous, but right now my income is zero and my sons’ incomes are zero. I was unemployed for about seven months in 2019, so zero savings. All the charities that used to get monthly donations from me are begging me to come back. In the last year I learned how do deal with a horrible company that Chase bank sold my mortgage to. I finagled a major mortgage payment reduction. I learned how to smell age discrimination and I learned how to just not take any shit.
I figure my sons will come up with some sort of work and I’ll get unemployment and maybe I’ll get a check from the feds.
I have a garage full of small appliances and expensive cookware that my brother in Colorado sent me when he thought he was dying. So I’m going to figure out how one sells three air fryers, two espresso machines, a lot of All Clad and Le Creuset and some expensive knives while adhering to social distancing rules. In other words, I’m going to get through this. One son is considering asking his father for some financial assistance. The other son said he’s going to ask his father to give me some financial assistance. In his words, “He never gave me a dime and you invested a lot in in us.” It will be interesting to see if that pans out.
jcburns said on March 25, 2020 at 12:09 am
My sister in San Diego inherited a large collection of extremely heavy Le Creuset from my dad, and after a bunch of pondering, we found it just easier to toss it in the pickup truck and drive out there and give it to her. Via Seattle. Long story. The cookware offered great traction over the coastal passes.
LAMary said on March 25, 2020 at 12:26 am
I imagine it would, especially over the back wheels. I have big Dutch oven that is ridiculously heavy. I should say I have three Le Creuset Dutch ovens, all the max size they make. Two were gifts from the same brother and one was his. He gave me two because he forgot he had given me one the year before.
Using them regularly builds character. Also biceps.
beb said on March 25, 2020 at 12:32 am
Republicans will fund-raise off of anything. It’s enough to make one think that Republicans deliberately infected America with the Coronavirus in an effort to make Trump seem presidential and to fund-raise the heck out of the country.
David C. said on March 25, 2020 at 6:18 am
I’m in a pretty fortunate position right now. My job is completely safe. The DoD isn’t giving anybody slack on contracts. It sounds like we’re each going to get a $1200 check. It would be nice, but we don’t actually need them so they’re going right to the food bank. I hope most people who have secure jobs donate theirs.
I’m starting to get into the swing of working from home. I’m particularly liking meetings on Webex. I can nod off and nobody knows it. I know others are too. When someone is asked a question twice and they finally answer sounding like they just woke up and either say they were muted or multitasking I know they just woke up.
Suzanne said on March 25, 2020 at 6:58 am
I put this on the last comment section just as the new post was going up.
It is worth reading, it is terrifying, and yes, I do firmly believe this is what is happening. When tRump yesterday announced that he wanted churches full on Easter, I knew immediately he was letting evangelicals know he was on their side and God wouldn’t let them down. We have churches in our area who still held services last Sunday and have only cancelled this Sunday’s because of the governor’s edict but are very upset about it. If tRump says they should open their churches to celebrate Easter, they will.
They truly would, I believe, expose their flock to a deadly virus to prove that they serve God rather than man.
Peter said on March 25, 2020 at 7:50 am
Suzanne, it’s times like this when I revive my “is Trump stupid or evil” debate (sure, it could be both). Part of me says he’s an evil genius by the Easter move, part of me says his brain must have clicked on for a minute and said “I’m screwed if the only people who like me can’t go to church on the holiest day of the year”, part of me thinks the real reason he’s doing it is so his golf clubs can open up the buffet line that day and collect that sweet sweet Easter money.
I got that letter yesterday as well. I thought it came from the CDC and I threw it out without opening it because I was so pissed that he’s manhandled the government like Daley and Blagojevch who plastered their name on every government surface that didn’t move. It’s from the campaign? Now I have to wash my hands again.
Dorothy said on March 25, 2020 at 7:58 am
In the last 60 hours or so we’ve been considering the possibility of my husband taking an early retirement. An email went out Monday evening to employees about the issue for employees over 60 (he’ll be 63 in May). However he always talks about his skill set being unique as an engineer, and his expertise being in demand. If he decides to keep working, he cannot change his mind and take the retirement package. So it’s a lot to digest. There’s a meeting he’s attending (online) this morning on the topic and after that he hopes to be able to make a more informed decision.
So I’m worried about what’s ahead in our future, and I’ m also worrying about my youngest sister. She’s divorced, has been teaching high school English since her divorce. She hasn’t been working at that position for much longer than 8-9 years, and she supplements her income with selling a line of clothing, but cannot do that under the current restrictions. I’ll likely be sending her any money I get from the government. Another sister is 6 years older than me and lives hand to mouth because she’s disabled and living on assistance. Periodically she contacts us with a dire need due to bouncing checks – we sent her $500 in February to help with that. I’m confident she takes turns with other siblings. My mother was always helping her out so I knew when she died we’d all have to pick up where Mum left off.
For these reasons I feel like I have to look out for family instead of doing much charitable giving. I do a little, but I never feel like it’s enough.
Deborah I don’t have any theories about the abundance or low volume of comments here. It’s cyclical. Some topics elicit more opinions than others I think. This virus is going to be just about the only topic of conversation for the foreseeable future. Some days people want to engage, and other days it’s too much and (for me) I avoid reading or commenting. But honestly many days, this page is a lifeline.
TGF said on March 25, 2020 at 8:03 am
@Deborah — there was a lag in my life while Cincinnati schools closed and rescheduled meetings to online format, pushing things out to this week. That plus some rainy days and being glued to the daily OH Dept of Health briefings meant I was at the ‘puter continuously, so commenting more than usual.
Because horticulture is a subset of agriculture, we’re an “essential” industry so work continues for us. What was supposed to be a rainy week has eroded into fine, overcast days in the 40s & 50s, making for a nice, slow spring. Since we worked Saturday & Sunday, I’ll be exhausted by the time rain arrives on Thursday night.
Regarding some earlier comments on the current legal question whether abortions are essential or elective, DeWine and Acton are tap-dancing to throw all questions the state’s AG Yost. This should shake out on the basis of procedures being essential from a standpoint of timing. Since abortion does not involve opening a body cavity, adjustments could be made to adopt reusable protective gear, freeing up disposable supplies for COVID19 use. I’m certainly old enough to remember when that was all anybody had or used.
Am I certain that abortion rights will prevail in OH? Not entirely. But then I’m not sitting in the bleachers. Continuing to work to turn our statehouse blue.
Suzanne said on March 25, 2020 at 8:52 am
“Absent scientific evidence that COVID-19 spreads more quickly in religious gatherings than others, your order amounts to unconstitutional religious discrimination.”
The world has gone mad. Truly.
Mark P said on March 25, 2020 at 8:53 am
Dorothy, if your husband has unique skills, maybe he could do some consulting. That usually pays a much higher rate than actual employment.
Deborah said on March 25, 2020 at 9:24 am
Going to Abiquiu, I need to unplug. I’m starting to self destruct.
Dorothy said on March 25, 2020 at 9:47 am
Yes Mark – we realize that for sure! He works with other consultants from time to time and that would be lucrative.
My niece reached out to me a couple of days ago, asking me to make some cloth masks for her mother-in-law who was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer last week. She doesn’t know what stage it is yet. She thought it might be helpful for her (and her husband who will be accompanying her to appointments) to wear masks in the coming months so as not to catch anything from anyone – a small thing in the face of this massive virus. I’m so happy to help. I just found a half yard of Steelers fabric in my stash so my niece’s father-in-law is getting one made in that fabric. Back to the sewing room!
Julie Robinson said on March 25, 2020 at 10:58 am
We’ve been down and out and received help, so we’ll donate our windfall. It may also go to family, as both our kids are on shaky grounds. Our daughter’s church has already been paying her a reduced salary, and our son started a new job in December and could be a victim of last in first out. We’ll just have to see.
In the meantime our daughter is offering garden consultations in our front yard garden. She’s helping people at a safe distance, and some have even paid her. She’s preaching the gospel of community and sustainability, and it also fulfills her need for social contact. She’s giving people moringa leaves to eat and seeds to grow–it’s very high in all kinds of vitamins, apparently.
I’ve been very skeptical about people sewing home made masks, but our hospital has now asked for them and is providing kits with everything needed. I drove over first thing and they were already out, but said they’ll have more tomorrow.
LAMary said on March 25, 2020 at 11:43 am
I may be misremembering this, but I think that campaign thing gets held up by Dr. Birx and others when Trump does his daily dump on television. It’s something that looks like that.
4dbirds said on March 25, 2020 at 11:47 am
Hubby and I will not be receiving the check and we are thankful to be in that position. We both have well-paying and secure jobs. My sons will receive them and they both need it. We are also all healthy and that is most important. I don’t venture out except for a walk or a quick trip to the grocery store. I get in and out.
Peter said on March 25, 2020 at 12:07 pm
LA Mary, if you’re watching those dumps so I don’t have to you’re doing the Lord’s work.
One of my wife’s friends posted on Facebook that she’s taken her bras and made masks out of them. My wife said if she did that she’d have to cut out holes for the eyes.
I’m really sorry I missed the online event. Let me know if you’re going to do that again.
Don’t think we’re going to get a check – my lovely wife is working from home, and I have my own practice which right now is going bonkers – a lot of my clients want to get their permit work in now and see if the City will turn it around. However, I do see me twiddling my thumbs in a month.
My son works at the airport and right now is classified as an essential worker, although his shift has been reduced to five hours. He thinks they’ll all be furloughed by the end of the month unless China flights resume.
LAMary said on March 25, 2020 at 12:15 pm
I was online discussing the Trump daily dump with some old high school friends and one mentioned that Trump’s hand motions when he spoke reminded him of a T Rex. You, know? He’s right. Tiny hands moving back and forth in a useless way just like a T Rex.
susan said on March 25, 2020 at 12:25 pm
LAMary @21— Yeah, and FatNixon’s brain is at the end of his tail, just like a stegosaurus.
Jeff Borden said on March 25, 2020 at 12:57 pm
Shopped for fish, fruit and veggies at Tony’s Fresh Market on Lincoln this a.m. about 8:30 a.m. because the store is reserving 7 to 9 a.m. for over 60 folks. The only noticeable shortages were toilet paper and paper towels. The ranks of good coffee in bags has been decimated, leaving only the big guys like Folger’s and Maxwell House. And the store is limiting egg purchases to two cartons per customer. Some of the checkout staff were wearing masks. Same with some customers. But not a majority.
I’m making it a point to stay out in the park with Cosmo until after 6 p.m. CDT so I don’t run the risk of hearing that fucking Queens bray on the nightly propaganda show. I’m developing an allergy to that sack of shit. And he’s moving into Dick Cheney territory as the politician I most despise.
Jeff Borden said on March 25, 2020 at 1:23 pm
This made my day. . .
alex said on March 25, 2020 at 1:26 pm
My wife said if she did that she’d have to cut out holes for the eyes.
Best humble brag ever!
I got the same blue Trump coronavirus mailing today along with one from Melania hitting me up for money. I’m afraid to put a nastygram into the return envelope lest I get placed on some watchlist of subversives.
Sherri said on March 25, 2020 at 1:50 pm
The Federalist published an article suggesting the equivalent of chicken pox parties for COVID19. I think that’s a fine idea for anyone associated with the Federalist, particularly the anonymous funder of that rag. I know just the place for their party. There’s this nursing home near here that has some newly empty rooms.
A friend of a friend is local ER doc who wrote about his experience for the Columbus Dispatch (he’s from Columbus): https://www.dispatch.com/opinion/20200324/column-emergency-room-physician-writes-from-covid-19-front-lines
Sherri said on March 25, 2020 at 1:55 pm
When would people like to do another online gathering? I was thinking this weekend maybe. What’s a good time, keeping in mind that I’m not going to get up at 4 in the morning to host a 7 am Eastern time event? So, nothing before 9 Pacific, noon Eastern.
Dave said on March 25, 2020 at 2:10 pm
I get mail from the Trump committee, too, but I didn’t get the scam coronavirus mail. It has my full name on the address. I’ve no idea why I get this junk. I keep thinking I’ll send it back, perhaps after we run out of toilet paper but I know I’d never really do that.
LAMary said on March 25, 2020 at 2:21 pm
I’ve got 16 rolls of toilet paper, but only six rolls of paper towels. I’m encouraging use of cloth kitchen towels but for all the hand washing going on here we need paper towels. Sprouts Market has lots of dried beans on hand, btw. I’ve got a pickup order for four kinds of beans, onions, savoy cabbage, pasta, etc. There’s minestrone in my future if everything is in stock.
Sherri said on March 25, 2020 at 2:25 pm
I got the postcard. It’s worse than a campaign mailer, *because it’s not a campaign mailer.* If it were a campaign mailer, it would have to say somewhere on it that it was paid for by the campaign, and it does not. Instead, the permit number indicated is G-10, which is for official USPS mail.
So, our government sent out something that had to praise Our Dear Leader while trying to inform the public. If only it were a campaign mailer!
TGF said on March 25, 2020 at 2:33 pm
Some of you may recall that Walton is home to a next of far-nuts anti-vaxxers — https://wgntv.com/news/unvaccinated-kentucky-teen-who-sued-over-chickenpox-policy-now-has-the-illness/
The Mayor is entitled to his rant.
Jakash said on March 25, 2020 at 2:46 pm
I know the Maximum Leader isn’t much for foresight. Still, the idea that Easter would be a “beautiful time” to declare victory and stop the social distancing is remarkably stupid, even by his standards. If the election were 2 days after Easter, I could believe that he is so egomaniacal and self-serving that he’d sacrifice lives if he thought it would help him win.
But, it’s not 2 days after Easter. If we put the economy over following the directives of those who know about this stuff, it will result in many more ending up dead. That will not be good for either the people, the economy, nor Dolt 45. And it will play out long before the election, which is the only thing besides his personal wealth that really seems to concern him.
We were at Whole Foods 45 min. after opening. No pasta that didn’t cost about $5-a-pound, no regular pasta sauce (plenty of Rao’s on offer!), no regular canned tomatoes, or paste, or sauce. The frozen vegetables weren’t going to hold out for long, but we were finally able to get some. The fresh produce was amply available. (Alex would have appreciated the bounteous display of onions…) Didn’t check on things we already have, as the witching hour was ending and non-seniors started coming in — oh, no! I felt like it was a light enough crowd that I was comfortable in keeping the distance. Lots of products had quantity limits on them. The folks with masks at this store were mainly the ones filling bags for shopping services, or whatever. (Loophole — they weren’t seniors.)
As we were approaching the door on the way in, I noticed a 30ish couple in front of us. They read the sign on the door about the first hour being for seniors, but proceeded to go in, anyway. Only to be met by an employee standing there checking IDs. D’oh!
susan said on March 25, 2020 at 3:04 pm
PSA: “Safe Grocery Shopping in COVID-19 Pandemic” Here
video by a physician
beb said on March 25, 2020 at 3:22 pm
Peter @12: It’s not an either/or situatin; Trump is evil and stupid.
Arguing that abortion is a non-essential procedure is nonsense. It’s one procedure where the longer it is delayed the more complicated it becomes. It should be considered an essential activity.
Apparently Trump today said that states should be nice to him and do things for him if they want anything from the Federal government. He sounds just like a mobster saying that. Also, what’s the point of having a federal government if they’re not going to help the states in a time of crisis?
Icarus said on March 25, 2020 at 3:30 pm
having Worked From Home in one capacity* or another for the better part of the last two decades, I sometimes forget how many people don’t get that opportunity. And as we are learning now, in a good many of those cases people could work from home but their employers don’t want to sans very one-off exceptions and sometimes not even that.
I learned at an early age that there is just so much downtime and wasted time at the office. Sure there are busy seasons but there are also inefficiencies and people who spend more energy looking busy than actually getting anything done.
WFH has some definite advantages but there are drawbacks too. it’s all about tradeoffs. You get left out of things because of outta sight, outta mind. You might hit your fridge a little more than at the office.
I didn’t mind going into the office a few days a week but with small children in daycare (and now in pre-K), it wasn’t easy to keep to a steady schedule.
* I worked at one place where you could WFH all you wanted…after you put your 40-50 hours in at the office.
Sherri said on March 25, 2020 at 3:46 pm
My husband has been working from home for a couple of weeks now, and Microsoft at least has made it clear that there is no end date yet. Originally, when they sent everybody home, it was through today, but obviously, things have changed. He’s got less downtime, because Sharepoint usage has gone up and they’re trying to manage capacity and performance.
Seems like a minor thing, but Inslee finally signed a proclamation last night suspending part of our open meetings law. There was a section in our law that required that meetings be physically accessible to the public, and that’s not possible right now, so none of our councils could legally meet.
Sherri said on March 25, 2020 at 4:08 pm
Seth Moulton should be primaried, stat.
Suzanne said on March 25, 2020 at 4:14 pm
Jim Banks is the co-sponsor of that resolution, Sherri. No surprise. He is a special kind of stupid. He’s obsessed with blaming China for the pandemic and want to sue or something. He tweets about it all the time. He is doing nothing to stop it now that it’s here, nothing to obtain medical supplies, nothing to promote social distancing. Never a mention of Trump’s delayed response to the virus’s arrival. But a constant drumbeat of blaming China. Constant.
Deborah said on March 25, 2020 at 5:08 pm
In my case the mask wouldn’t even cover my nose.
Heather said on March 25, 2020 at 5:39 pm
I just got back from a solo bike ride (veering away from anyone in my path) and I cut through a park on my way home. It is going to be impossible for Chicagoans to maintain social distancing as the weather warms up, based on how many people were out today in 50-degree weather. It’s going to be a mess as we’re all tired of being cooped up all winter already. I think Mayor Lightfoot is going to close the parks, trails, and beaches, which is probably necessary. I’m not even going out for food anymore so if I do ride my bike I’m going to stick to the side streets.
ROGirl said on March 25, 2020 at 6:03 pm
I went to the grocery store at lunch time, it was almost empty. I picked up the items that I wanted. They had a lot of paper towels, but it’s a good thing I didn’t need any tp.
JodiP said on March 25, 2020 at 7:08 pm
Our governor issued a shelter in place order effective midnight Friday. It will last for two weeks, and be extended if needed.
He did a great job laying out the numbers if we don’t do this. It’s all about buying time to transform buildings into hospitals, getting repsirators and PPE.
An actual quote from my wife’s boss (who is of course, also a NURSE) “You are overracting. This is not that serious. This will be over by Easter. If I can survive breast cancer, you can survive this.”
This, in response to one of her direct reports, who, along with the rest of the team has been asking what the plan is vis a vis the pandemic. They literally are getting their next day’s assignment the day before. (My wife works in a GI clinic, where all elective procedures have been cancelled, so they are being re-allocated. Not just in a very well organized fashion.) If managment really doesn’t have a plan, fine, say so.
I’ve been a supervisor for all of 7 months, and I’m holding team meetings e/o day to check in with how people are doing, making sure they have information, assisting in efforts for them to do their work without face to face meetings. It’s not that hard to be supportive in times like this.
Also: for people experiencing substance use disorders and homelessness, it often takes many, many contacts and efforts to engage before they decide they trust someone and are ready to make some changes. I see this every day in the work my teams do. They–clients and staff–are amazing. Please don’t call them bums. It diminishes their humanity.
David C. said on March 25, 2020 at 8:19 pm
This left a mark. The tRumpies have sent C&Ds. Like that’s going to work.
Bitter Scribe said on March 25, 2020 at 10:50 pm
Finally got the nerve to look at my IRA. It’s down $24,000.
I’ve been trying to remind myself that there are a lot of people who are out of a job and have to worry about making next month’s rent. But it still hurts.
What really pisses me off is, when and why did most people’s retirement become dependent on this goddamned casino we call the stock market?
Joe Kobiela said on March 25, 2020 at 10:58 pm
Let’s play would you rather. Would you rather have the Corona virus be over next week but it guarantees Trump gets 4 more years,or would you rather have it drag on till mid May destroying the economy and causing a depression but guarantee a Democrat win?
I’ll hang up and wait for your answer.
jcburns said on March 25, 2020 at 11:16 pm
Joe, I’m having trouble with your hypothetical — the economy crashed in major part because Trump refused to heed EARLY warnings of pandemic and when presented with pandemic info from the Obama administration ignored it—and then got rid of the task force that could have made things different.
The coronavirus will not be over next week. It won’t be over in mid-May.
The amount that our hospital facilities are overwhelmed and underequipped is directly controlled by how successful we are and will be at maintaining social separation AND how successful government (all, federal, state, local) is at getting resources—PPEs, ventilators, respirators—where they need to be in time for their need. So far we’re doing the social distance thing nationally in a pretty impressive way, but the President’s impatience and inexperience in dealing with the markets from the big chair are making things very, very problematical.
I’d rather have Trump and Pence transported to an undisclosed location in the Mojave Desert and let the CDC and crisis people do their important work unimpeded.
Or, you know, the 25th Amendment.
jcburns said on March 25, 2020 at 11:31 pm
And Joe, here’s some reading on how the Trump administration ignored the 69-page National Security Council playbook.
Do you feel good about that choice? When Trump says over and over again “Nobody could have anticipated this” and there is all kinds of factual evidence that lots and lots of people anticipated this very thing, does that fill your heart with pride?
It can’t. It just can’t.
LAMary said on March 25, 2020 at 11:43 pm
Can we change that to the Sonoran Desert, the southern part of it. I don’t want them in the Mojave. I speak for all of California.
LAMary said on March 26, 2020 at 12:31 am
Just had a half hour of socially distanced interaction with my older son. It was very sweet and sad and odd. He had made a run to the Indian grocery for me and I gave him about five pounds of assorted pasta from my stash. We discussed the lack of traffic, the increase in the local coyote population and caught up on the health of other acquaintances and family members. I guess we’ll get used to it.
Jakash said on March 26, 2020 at 1:21 am
I’d rather you not be such a troll, PJ, but that’s about as likely as the crisis being over next week. What a fucking question. Many will *die* because you thought it was clever to vote for an incompetent charlatan for president in order to piss people like us off. I’d rather you and about 80,000 other like-minded adult children hadn’t done that. I’d rather not pretend that Democrats are the main problem when it comes to politicizing crises.
Would you rather tell us what you think of David C.’s video 2 comments above yours, or would you rather have us continue to conclude that you’re incapable of reasonable argument? Does it not matter at all to a self-styled patriot such as yourself that you can’t trust a word that the President of the United States utters, especially at a time like this?
Little Bird said on March 26, 2020 at 2:07 am
I’d face palm, but we aren’t supposed to touch our faces.
beb said on March 26, 2020 at 2:48 am
Even Dr Fauci couldn’t not facepalm when in the presence of Trump.
Seriously, a president who doesn’t think it’s his job to organize and direct production of critical medical supplies. Who doesn’t think he has any responsibility for responding to the plague. Who is more concerned about the stock-market than the health of Americans. Who is more concerned about his chances of being re-elected than the crisis? If the Earth were to open up and swallow the White House in one gulp the country would be in a better place, with real leadership.
ROGirl said on March 26, 2020 at 6:28 am
I have a would you rather. Would you rather end the social distancing/stay at home orders in 2 weeks to try and get the economy back to normal, and without any credible evidence to back it, potentially exposing millions of people to illness or death, or would you rather listen to medical professionals who have scientific data and facts to support their recommendations?
If you own resort properties and hotels that are currently losing a lot of money, you would rather see people out and about, and in church on Easter, to celebrate the resurrection of the son of God.
David C. said on March 26, 2020 at 6:29 am
Economies recover Joe, dead parents don’t. My parents and parents-in-law are all in their 80s and therefore very vulnerable to this virus. Hell, I’m 60 and therefore somewhat more vulnerable. How many people do you want to die in order to save the economy from a temporary albeit severe downturn.
Joe Kobiela said on March 26, 2020 at 6:57 am
About the answers I expected and before anyone asked, yes if it meant that this would be over tomorrow but President Trump was no longer President it would be worth it.
Suzanne said on March 26, 2020 at 8:21 am
It is amazing how quickly the prolife elites embraced pro death practices when their investments were under threat. Lightening speed.
jcburns said on March 26, 2020 at 8:45 am
Joe, thanks for answering a different question. I’m still interested in how you feel about decisions Trump made (in all our names) like ignoring/discarding the pandemic playbook, disbanding the pandemic team, stating this will (paraphrasing) be 14 deaths and then zero…when this happens, do you smile and say “hey, there’s my guy!” or is is closer to “my god, what have I done?”
Because if I voted for Trump, I’d sure be closer to the latter at this point.
Joe Kobiela said on March 26, 2020 at 10:03 am
I think it really didn’t matter how he handled it the people on the left would not have agreed with anything he did, he was in a no win situation. I think the last pole show that the majority of people think he is doing a good job on this epidemic, could he have done better? Probably but you can go back thru history and find fault with just about anything in hindsight. What I worry about is this going to become the new norm? From here on out are we going to shut the entire nation down every time there is a new sickness? As a nation this is unsustainable, I think by the end of next week the people of this country are going to start demanding things get back to normal virus or not. So yes I’m glad I voted for him and yes I’ll vote for him over Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders and by November when hopefully this virus is a bad memory and the economy and market are close to being back to normal the majority of the people will feel the same way. I guess we will have to wait and see.
I hope all of you stay healthy, take my advise turn off the news, go outside get some fresh air take a walk, ride a bike, go for a run, it will do you good.
Icarus said on March 26, 2020 at 10:13 am
Even a perfect response won’t end the pandemic. As long as the virus persists somewhere, there’s a chance that one infected traveler will reignite fresh sparks in countries that have already extinguished their fires. This is already happening in China, Singapore, and other Asian countries that briefly seemed to have the virus under control. Under these conditions, there are three possible endgames: one that’s very unlikely, one that’s very dangerous, and one that’s very long.
basset said on March 26, 2020 at 10:14 am
And how do you turn a Trump supporter into a socialist?
Give him a $1200 check.
jcburns said on March 26, 2020 at 10:15 am
“people on the left would not have agreed with anything he did” <- Joe, this kind of statement just is maddening because it is so wrong. People "on the left" or even "on the right" want the President to do things that relate to science and/or facts. When he did things that (appeared to be) in line with what Fauci and the CDC recommended, I would (and those on the left would) say "Good, I am glad."
This whole poor Trump, he’s in a no win situation is even more propoganda. Please don’t buy into it.
Trump CAN make good decisions involving resources, people. He just has to make ones that are based in reality, science, the data.
You’re a pilot. You understand that you have to make corrections earlier than your eyes tell you—or “gut” tells you—because the science says that air flows a certain way, and gravity is uncompromising. If you wait too long, you can’t make the plane magically reposition itself. You have to trust in science and invisible curved lines in 3d space.
This is one of those situations. It’s not political. I don’t care about the polls, I care about the science.
And yes, in the future if there is “a new sickness” and the solution to it is social distancing and closing down schools and businesses, we must do that unless we have another tool in the toolbox. Right now, these are the tools, this is the science.
Heather said on March 26, 2020 at 10:20 am
I’m not a public health expert or a politician, but even I took note way back in late January/early February when epidemiologists and scientists were warning that this virus scared them, and that we should be ready to face something worse than we’d ever seen before. It’s the president’s job to take these threats seriously and he still can’t do it. So yeah–if I paid attention to this, Trump sure fucking well could have done better. He literally had a roadmap laid out for him for what to do and ignored it. He and his ilk are going to be responsible for thousands if not millions of deaths, and I hope that they face charges for it in a court of law eventually. He and the GOP literally don’t care if people die. And Joe, that includes you and yours. This isn’t a partisan issue. Death is an equal opportunity threat.
“You can go back thru history and find fault with just about anything in hindsight.”–yes, and still Trump refuses to learn from his mistakes as the infection count rises higher and higher.
As I said on Facebook, I’m not overstating things when I saw we are watching mass murder by the state play out in real time due to a lack of prep and the refusal of the federal government to act to the height of its powers in addressing this situation. Last time it was camps, this time it looks different. Ever wonder how people in Syria feel about living in a country where a leader bombs and poisons his own people? It’s kinda like this.
Suzanne said on March 26, 2020 at 11:00 am
“From here on out are we going to shut the entire nation down every time there is a new sickness?”
From here on out are we going to stop flying Boeing’s 737 Max airplanes just because a couple of them crashed and killed a bunch of people? I mean, it nearly bankrupted Boeing. So, I guess pilots like you should be allowed to fly them, Joe, and people allowed on them. Sure, some will die, but what can you do? Gotta keep Boeing afloat.
Mark P said on March 26, 2020 at 11:25 am
Donald Trump is a textbook case of projection. That trait is so strong in his personality that he seems almost like a caricature. In fact, I consider him and his followers evidence that we are living in an alternate reality, one that is separated from what we used to consider normal. It’s as if some all-powerful being thought it would be an interesting experiment to create a world where the most powerful country in the world elected an obviously incompetent, psychopathic criminal as president. You know, just to stir the pot a little.
Oh, and it seems that his followers share the trait of projection.
LAMary said on March 26, 2020 at 11:34 am
Joe, your politics don’t bother me. Everyone has a right to whatever political view the agree with. What bothers me is the reasoning you use to get to your political views. You really need some non Fox information.
Deborah said on March 26, 2020 at 11:43 am
You’re probably going to have to define projection to him.
Julie Robinson said on March 26, 2020 at 11:48 am
Nothing is going to change Joe’s mind so I will just rejoice that we’ve had two decently warm days in a row with some SUN. That and two good walks have improved my mindset immeasurably.
Our son’s law firm has been classified an essential service and he still has a job. Fingers crossed it lasts!
LAMary said on March 26, 2020 at 12:03 pm
Joe’s question about if/then made me think of a Zippy comic strip I read at least thirty years ago. I loved Zippy. Anyway, Bill Griffith, the guy who drew and wrote Zippy, attended a comic book convention and at a Q and A session someone asked the question,” If Jesus Christ and Superman had a fight, who would win?” I know it’s not directly applicable but I had the same reaction.
Deborah said on March 26, 2020 at 12:10 pm
This may not be simple enough:
Projection is a psychological defense mechanism in which individuals attribute characteristics they find unacceptable in themselves to another person. For example, a husband who has a hostile nature might attribute this hostility to his wife and say she has an anger management problem.
Jakash said on March 26, 2020 at 12:19 pm
Good point about the Max 8, Suzanne.
Yeah, Mark P, if you had told me there were as many people in the country who “think” like Joe does, I just wouldn’t have believed it. It does seem like an alternate reality.
That’s why the “Cult 45” designation for Trumpeters resonates for me. They’re amazingly brainwashed. Not that long ago, PJ would concede that he doesn’t really like Trump that well, but he was at least better than Hillary. Now, after all we’ve seen, he’s fully on board.
Trump blatantly lied for two months about the most important issue that he’ll face as president. He did nothing to prepare either the government nor the citizens for the “war” that he was told was coming. Rather than do anything about it, he actually said it would end like a “miracle.” Even now, he refuses to use the power he has to do what needs to be done. And he still lies to the country, when lies will cost lives.
PJ’s takeaway, after having witnessed all this: “could he have done better? Probably but you can go back thru history and find fault with just about anything in hindsight.”
Yet 4 people died in Benghazi and that was a complete deal-breaker when it came to Hillary.
“Could he have done better?” Well, I suppose he could lie every *other* time he speaks, instead of every time. Perhaps he could *not* have shut down the operation in charge of pandemic preparedness in 2018. Maybe he could at least *pretend* to care more about human life than the stock market. So hard to say, but — probably.
Jeff Borden said on March 26, 2020 at 12:23 pm
While I fully agree much of this current mess was exacerbated by that ignoramus in the White House, my largest beef is with American conservative philosophy and the Republican Party. Forty-plus long years of trashing government as an enemy, an impediment, a problem to be overcome by Randian supermen in the private sector, who will deliver health and prosperity to all if we’d only let them loose and free them of any rules or regulations. Forty-plus long years of arguing the best government is small and local, which allows a nincompoop in a backwater like Mississippi to flout common sense and science, even though the virus won’t respect state lines. My mantra from now until I die will be to vote against EVERY Republican running for EVERY office in Congress. The party is rotten to its core and needs to be beaten into dust. Maybe something better will emerge. Fuck the GOP.
Sherri said on March 26, 2020 at 12:31 pm
Joe, this is *my* community that took the hit because the president you support is incompetent and stupid and has dismantled the infrastructure to provide an adequate response to a crisis. Those are my friends working in hospitals risking their lives and health without sufficient resources. It’s only because people here went against your president’s administration that the alarm was raised as soon as it was.
There’s no such thing as a perfect response to a crisis. But when you ignore the warnings, when you dismantle the organization built to handle the crisis, when you fill your administration with toadies rather than competent people, and then throw away the big binder helpfully labeled PANDEMIC PLAYBOOK in favor of whatever your worthless son-in-law happens to heard that day, well, you pretty much define the worst possible response to crisis.
So, in that context, I’m going to be rather uncivil: Fuck you, Joe, and the plane you flew in on.
4dbirds said on March 26, 2020 at 12:33 pm
This is why I mostly ignore JTFP.
Joe Kobiela said on March 26, 2020 at 12:42 pm
I would not hesitate to fly on a 737 Max as long as the crew was trained to U.S. standards, you have to be able to actually fly the aircraft not push buttons, it’s called stick and rudder skills, the max pilots that crashed were trained to push auto pilot on at 400ft and auto pilot off at 200ft, the problem was they couldn’t hand fly the airplane, the copilot on the second crash only had 250hr total time, in the U.S that barely qualifies you for a instrument rating, but what would I know about flying compared to those experts here?
Scout said on March 26, 2020 at 12:52 pm
Our blog hostess posted this article on FB this morning. The people who most need to read it aren’t part of this community, save one, but it is impetus for all of us to make sure this bumbling, lumbering, lying spectacle of incompetence is voted out in November.
alex said on March 26, 2020 at 12:58 pm
Experiencing diminishing sense of smell today. Mild sinus headache so hoping it’s something else like spring allergies.
Obviously Joe comments here only to antagonize. He really needs to STFU.
Deborah said on March 26, 2020 at 1:10 pm
PJ, so you admit we should listen to experts? Like scientists and medical professionals maybe?
Little Bird said on March 26, 2020 at 1:20 pm
There are three people in a room. An epidemiologist, a reality show host, and a pilot. Which one do you trust in the middle of a pandemic?
St Bitch said on March 26, 2020 at 1:54 pm
Well you’ve succeeded, Pilot Joe, in escalating distress and tension among those of us who gather here, from our various outposts, to commune, connect, find solace, share information in order to conscientiously try to navigate the unknown, ease the pressure, uplift our spirits.
I don’t know why you take obvious satisfaction in plucking our beleaguered feathers, nor why you don’t just flock with your own birds…but you strike me as the most isolated of us all.
Suzanne said on March 26, 2020 at 1:55 pm
Pilot Joe, you might have no problem with flying the 737 max but I can tell you, I wouldn’t get on one.
Sherri said on March 26, 2020 at 2:11 pm
Right now, it may be blue states like Washington, California, and New York getting hit, but at least those states have functioning governments with competent people in charge. This virus is going to roar through the South like a tornado, leaving destruction in its wake, and that region is ill-equipped for it.
Jakash said on March 26, 2020 at 2:47 pm
2 pithy zingers from Little Bird today. Nice!
PJ, as usual, provides us with insight as to how the dangerous, incompetent boob who’s grossly mismanaging this crisis still retains any support at all in this country. PJ’s a *pilot*, in case you didn’t know. ; ) If he can compartmentalize certain facts and totally ignore or dismiss others this easily, imagine what it’s like for people with no understanding of science at all…
Icarus said on March 26, 2020 at 3:03 pm
it seems to me that many of the left will constructively criticize “their guy” but those on the right can find no fault with Trump. Well except Crytal Minton, when she criticized him for not hurting the right people.
Joe Kobiela said on March 26, 2020 at 3:15 pm
Lots of comments today but no one answered the original question.
LAMary said on March 26, 2020 at 3:20 pm
Because it made no sense, Joe.
Jim said on March 26, 2020 at 3:24 pm
“Let’s play would you rather. Would you rather have the Corona virus be over next week but it guarantees Trump gets 4 more years,or would you rather have it drag on till mid May destroying the economy and causing a depression but guarantee a Democrat win?
I’ll hang up and wait for your answer.”
If he promises not to start WWIII, and to cause the death of no more than 1000 people from here to the end of his second term, then yes.
Now you answer this one: why did his administration pay no damned attention to the 2016 guidelines for dealing with a pandemic?
For me: I will smash my tv if I hear one more public person say no one could have seen this coming.
Heather said on March 26, 2020 at 3:26 pm
I see Joe is playing Mr. Gotcha. https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
jcburns said on March 26, 2020 at 3:27 pm
And Joe, for maybe the third time, how you do feel about Trump ignoring/discarding the pandemic playbook, disbanding the pandemic team? It can be multiple choice:
Scout said on March 26, 2020 at 3:32 pm
Dear Joe, nobody here is required to play your cringe inducing what-if game. Nor are we required to give you any attention at all, but if we do, it’s entirely up to each one of us to decide what kind of attention you’ll receive. You certainly seem to enjoy making a fool out of yourself for our benefit, though.
ROGirl said on March 26, 2020 at 3:48 pm
Isn’t life too short for this?
Sherri said on March 26, 2020 at 3:57 pm
Here’s the answer to your question, Joe: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sealioning
Sherri said on March 26, 2020 at 4:08 pm
Like I said, this virus is going to destroy the South.
Dorothy said on March 26, 2020 at 4:54 pm
Alex I’m a little bit worried about what you said @76. I assume you know that a diminished sense of smell and taste COULD be a symptom of the virus, right? And I’ve heard headaches are another symptom. Please – take your temperature (it’s not always going to be rising when you first have symptoms but it’s an important step, to track your temp) and be aware that you might need to get tested.
You guys all know how I feel about the one who’s causing all the ruckus today, right? So I won’t comment on it. Suffice to say I’m still thinking that you just can’t fix stupid. So give up, everybody. It’s hopeless. I would politely suggest that we just completely ignore him.
Sherri said on March 26, 2020 at 5:08 pm
How do people feel about a virtual gathering on Saturday at 1 pm PDT, 4 pm EDT?
Dorothy said on March 26, 2020 at 5:15 pm
I think I’d be available then, Sherri. We might be going out for a long drive that day, but then again I already participated the other day so I would not be missed.
Dexter Friend said on March 26, 2020 at 5:23 pm
In case anyone here lives basically on SS benefits, the question was answered today. If you were mailed a form 1099 from the government, for either tax year 2018 or 2019, you will get a check, processing begins in 3 weeks. If you have moved , you must contact Social Security to get your address corrected. This is contingent on the House passing this bill, which is a no-brainer. Any further payments will require another bill to be passed. So, you are set if you received the 1099 form. 🙂
LAMary said on March 26, 2020 at 5:33 pm
I had a nasty cough for about the last ten days and I was getting a lot of social distancing action like the people in my household moving away rapidly. I never got a fever. Never made it above 98.1. The cough is pretty much gone now. I never felt sick, just very snotty. At a time of great household paper product shortage I went through many tissues. Several boxes. I’m pretty sure it was just a plain old cold. Never lost the smell and taste senses. Never had a headache. Just lots of gross mucus. I can’t say I wasn’t concerned that it was something scary. Thank goodness it wasn’t.
beb said on March 26, 2020 at 5:40 pm
PJ’s question is a variation of the classic Trolley dilemma: You see a runaway trolley heading towards a group of people but you can throw a switch to divert the trolley to another line which will kill one person. If you do nothing five people will die, if you throw the switch one person will die. Which will you choose. There is no good answer to this dilemma, it exists to explore the limits of one’s philosophy.
To the extent that Boeing made major modifications to the airplane’s handling such that it required error catching sensors then failed to make the sensors redundant (thus fault tolerant), then argued that pilots did not need additional simulator time to learn how to handle the new equipment was so irresponsible that the company needs to be broken up and sold off. If we let it to continue to live it will just do something like this again.
Deadline Detroit has picked Nancy’s Eastern Market photo, the one of the banner saying Spread Out as their pic of the date. Kudos, Nancy.
alex said on March 26, 2020 at 5:40 pm
I’d be game for a video meet up on Saturday.
Dorothy, I’m aware and that’s why I’m taking precautions. Temp has been 97.8 all day. Feeling a little woozy but not terrible. Right now prepping to make some spaghetti sauce. On cutting up an onion, I noticed the pungency more than the smell. I’m doing Italian sausage with mushrooms and peppers and gonna simmer it nice and long.
My partner is working out of town. His employers must have been insane to send people out of town last week. He’s supposed to return this weekend, but if I’m getting sick then his employer had better put him up in a hotel. Probably should do it anyway, dumb Republicans.
LAMary said on March 26, 2020 at 6:27 pm
My three pack of bandanas arrived today. They’re from a company called Calamityware. From a distance they look like typical bandanas but the design is actually little skeletons, some of them walking little skeleton dogs. I decided to wear one as a cootie mask while out of the house. Those years of working in a hospital have given me an appreciation for dark humor.
Julie Robinson said on March 26, 2020 at 9:16 pm
Mary, I had that same cold for five to six weeks in January and February; tons of mucus and unrelenting coughing. Never ran a fever, never had it go into my chest, was exhausted and miserable the whole time. I could barely get out of bed. Doctor’s office: push fluids.
Alex, are you taking your temperature? My mom and I both have been and have learned we share the trait of normal temps being low, pretty consistently 95.5. That, or we’ve both got faulty thermometers.
LB, great burns.
Deborah said on March 26, 2020 at 9:26 pm
Sherri, I was finally able to get your link about sealioning to work out here in Abiquiu. Everyone, you should click on it if you haven’t yet.
Today lasted 20 years, too long of a story to describe here. It involved me helping myself to a half of one of LB’s gummies to calm myself down.
alex said on March 26, 2020 at 9:35 pm
Temp’s been holding steady at 98 all evening. Fragrance from cooking dinner was underwhelming which I find concerning. Could smell garlic on my fingers after mincing it although it didn’t seem particularly strong. My spaghetti sauce tasted okay. Ate it like a soup instead of boiling pasta. Plenty left over for meals/snacks the next few days, in addition to the big Thai beef salad I made last night. What threw me this morning was that beef salad. I made it with fish sauce. It smelled amazing last night but I couldn’t smell it this morning. I could taste it though.
Just finished working for the day. Want to relax.
Saw a funny in the KPC News (paywall) about a woman in Pleasant Lake who got arrested for bestiality with a dog after dropping off pictures to be developed at Walmart. She told the police her camera ran out of storage space. Also that she didn’t know it was illegal. 55 years old.
Bet I know who she voted for in 2016.
Mark P said on March 26, 2020 at 9:47 pm
OH! NO! ALEX!! Take it back! Take it back!
That poor dog.
LAMary said on March 26, 2020 at 10:42 pm
That’s the one, Julie. I felt pretty beat some days but not always. Having said that I’m stuck in the house. Haven’t been out since the thirteenth, so I haven’t been very active. I’ve been drinking a lot of water and chamomile tea and getting plenty of sleep. Also eating many oranges and clementines, making soup, taking steamy showers. I’ve washed my morbid bandanas so now I can wear one when I take a stroll with the geriatric Lab. The bandanas smelled of the sizing chemicals so I had to run them through the wash before wrapping one around my face.
Younger son picked up a temporary job to replace the merch roadie gig. He’s packing covid 19 test kits for shipping at Quest Diagnostics.
Joe Kobiela said on March 26, 2020 at 11:38 pm
Trump must have done something right early on or Chuck Schumer On Feb 5 wouldn’t have tweeted the following,” The premature Travel ban to and from China by the current administration is just an excuse to further his ongoing war against immigrants “
Mark P said on March 27, 2020 at 1:00 am
JK, are you following Dear Leader’s practice of playing fast and loose with the truth? The Chuck Schumer tweet was fabricated. He never tweeted what you claimed. That claim was debunked by the AP more than three weeks ago.
Jakash said on March 27, 2020 at 2:11 am
I’m shocked! Shocked to find that PJ is passing along right-wing fever-dream fake news. Not as shocked that, as Mark P. notes, it’s month-old fake news, however…
“Some conservative websites and Twitter users are spreading a false rumor that Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., deleted a tweet from early February criticizing President Donald Trump for banning some forms of travel to and from China.
The tweet was never deleted, because Schumer never sent it.
We rate this claim Pants on Fire!”
Dexter Friend said on March 27, 2020 at 3:00 am
This man is going to save many lives if people go along with his men and the plan he brings: https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/army-corps-of-engineers-gives-options-to-states-facing-covid-crush-81265733635
Dexter Friend said on March 27, 2020 at 3:06 am
Attention anyone who has an inactive Sirius XM radio at home or in a vehicle, or in several vehicles…all unsubscribed people can get totally free radio for 90 days now, not even a credit card reference, nothing. Just call or click them and they will beam you in.
ROGirl said on March 27, 2020 at 3:41 am
Haven’t been sleeping well recently. I got out of bed, fired up my laptop, and…it’s crashed, black screen of death. Under normal circumstances I could ask an IT guy at work to look at it.
Icarus said on March 27, 2020 at 9:17 am
Dorothy @ 11: you know your situation better than any of us but my gut tells me that your husband should take that package. As Mark said, he could likely find supplemental work as a consultant.