Visit. Stay a while.

The other day Alan remarked that The New York Times needs to employ more people who don’t live in New York. He was carping about some illustrations in this story – “that isn’t a come-along, and who wants Blundstones to wade through disaster debris?” – that for the record, I consider fairly minor quibbles. But I’d been thinking the same thing after listening to a podcast they did about the affordability crisis in large coastal cities.

Totally valid story, that one, and something we’ve been discussing in the comments here, of late. But their suggestions of the “affordable” cities young educated people are allegedly fleeing to? Austin. Phoenix. Miami. Atlanta. Um, hello? And the episode started so promisingly, with a young woman who’d left Brooklyn because she realized she’d never be able to own anything, much less the bar she aspired to run, if she stayed in New York. She’s now in Birmingham, Alabama, with not one but two bars, a big house with a yard, a car and four dogs. But those other four cities? All have median home prices above $500,000, with the exception of Atlanta, where it’s $400,000, but you’d happily pay the extra $100,000 to escape from its typical traffic jams.

I waited to hear mention of…well, why not Columbus, Ohio? Indianapolis? St. Louis? Or are they all lost to us, too? When we drove to Nashville in March, we stopped for the night in Cincinnati, and found a hotel on the Kentucky side of the river. The desk clerk informed us that we probably couldn’t get a house there, either, at least not in a nice area close to the river, for much less than half a mil.

So I guess we’re staying put, at least until Michigan comes fully into its own as the Saudi Arabia of fresh water. This column is paywalled and the Detroit News doesn’t do gift links, but it tracks precisely with my thinking after the census showed Michigan again failing to grow very much, and the powers that be announced a study group to come up with a growth strategy. I’ll quote more liberally than I usually do:

During her annual address at last week’s Mackinac Policy Conference, Whitmer said Michigan “will be a climate refuge” in one breath, but then in the next said the state shouldn’t make that the strategy to address the fact Michigan has leaped from the 29th oldest state in 2000 to the 13th oldest state in the 2020 Census.

“But our population goals cannot be cynically fueled by climigrants — these are people who migrate to Michigan because of climate change,” Whitmer said. “It’s got to be driven by our ability to address global challenges and what we have to offer.”

What Michigan has to offer climigrants is water and mostly predictable four seasons of weather. (Yes, it snows. Get over it, folks. Nature is beautiful.)

The global challenge is going to be access to fresh water. Michigan has got 21% of it — and 80% of North America’s freshwater is contained in our Great Lakes, our thousands of inland lakes and rivers, and our deep underground aquifers.

Whether it’s for human consumption, growing food, sustaining forests or building electric vehicle batteries, Michigan has the water to sustain our future and the other states won’t — and state and other officials should not be omitting that from the sales pitch of why people should move to Michigan.

Bingo, although I’m a little concerned about referring to the Great Lakes as “ours.” (Swim across all but one of them, and you come ashore in Canada.) Not only that, you can still get a house here for less than $400,000, or even $300,000. Plus we have great music, friendly people and reproductive freedom now embedded in the state constitution.

Meanwhile, Axios informed me this morning, two major insurers are no longer writing homeowner policies in California, and new-home construction is being restricted in Phoenix for, guess why, lack of groundwater.

So, Phoenix as the bolt hole for fleeing Angelenos? Miami — ha ha! Miami! with hurricanes and rising sea levels! — for New Yorkers? I don’t think so.

Waiting for a firestorm or hurricane to get you? Try Michigan. You can sprinkle your lawn here, even though we, too, are in an extended dry spell. All we have to worry about are occasional tornados. And the housing is (relatively) cheap. You can be my neighbor.

Posted at 7:29 pm in Current events, Detroit life |

52 responses to “Visit. Stay a while.”

  1. Julie Robinson said on June 6, 2023 at 8:25 pm

    You forgot to mention winter. I’ll trade not becoming suicidal from lack of sun for all of Florida’s problems. But I agree with the Times’ myopia. Hasn’t the city always been that way?

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  2. Jeff Gill said on June 6, 2023 at 8:45 pm

    I read that whole post imagining it in Tim Allen’s voice. Pure Michigan…

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  3. alex said on June 6, 2023 at 8:55 pm

    Julie, we used to have that New Yorker New York-centric poster in our office but it disappeared a while back, probably because someone decided it was som kind of icon for liberals.

    If it weren’t for the regressive (read neo-nazi) politics of the state of Indiana, a city like Fort Wayne is an outstanding bargain in terms of quality of life and bang for the buck. And even here we’re atypically inflated. Housing stock is limited and people have bidding wars over anything worth having. But, hey, when Michigan becomes Mecca, we’ll be the affordable suburb with the ever-so-slightly shittier climate.

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  4. Jim G said on June 6, 2023 at 9:35 pm

    As a resident of the DC area whose last house cost nearly $1 million, and that in an “affordable” area of the metro, being able to get a house “in a nice area close to the river” for half of that sounds wondrous.

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  5. Brandon said on June 6, 2023 at 10:06 pm

    I like the post from fifteen years ago today, in which Nancy likened this blog to a bar and its regular commentariat as bargoers, much like Cheers.

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  6. basset said on June 6, 2023 at 11:30 pm

    Me too, except that she thought I mostly didn’t agree with her politically. I must not have been communicating that well.

    Mrs. B and I had planned to sell up and move further out from Nashville, but reasonable access to both a hospital and fast Net service were hard to find. So we’re fixing up the little tract house we’ve been in since before the flood, next step was gonna be a walk-in shower to replace our tub but the first estimate was $12-14,000 depending on what grade of plastic we wanted. Just to tear the tub out and put in a shower stall. May have been out of touch on that kind of thing, but it seems like a lot.

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  7. susan said on June 7, 2023 at 12:08 am

    Yeah, but Jim G, that house for half a mil near the river is in the Cincinnati area. I grew up there. Nope.

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  8. David C said on June 7, 2023 at 6:03 am

    My sister-in-law and her husband live in Phoenix. His solution to water isn’t far off of “kick their ass and take their gas”. He’s sure there’s going to be a water pipeline from the Great Lakes to out west. So, the Saudi Arabia of fresh water, yes.

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  9. kath said on June 7, 2023 at 7:46 am

    A few months ago, the NYT had an article about climate refugees moving to Duluth, MN. When it’s over 100 degrees elsewhere in MN, it’s always sweater weather by the lake. One guy move d from California and bought 8 houses to use as rental properties. Meanwhile the housing market is red hot and people who’ve lived there their entire lives can’t afford a house. Winters there are very tough. One year when I lived there it snowed 5 feet before Thanksgiving and the coldest daytime air temperature that I was outside in was -37 degrees. Good luck Californians.

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  10. alex said on June 7, 2023 at 7:47 am

    Politico goes all Kitty Kelly on Mike Pence with a list of every embarrassing factoid you need to know about his sorry ass:

    It’s a nice break from the main theme of other reportage the last few days: What lane does he think he’s in?

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  11. Dorothy said on June 7, 2023 at 8:08 am

    Alex this is likely a pretty common insult, but it still made me laugh. My husband said he read something over the weekend about Mike Pence that I keep laughing about. Mike Pence: he’ll come in fourth in a three-way race.

    Basset that sounds terribly high to me, too. I’d keep searching for another contractor and get at least 3 quotes.

    This morning I had to email the construction supervisor for our growing neighborhood to let him know that my neighbor and I opted to pick up the empty beer cans, water bottles, Subway sandwich wrappers, etc. that the workers are leaving all over the property being built across the street from our homes. My neighbor spied a container with a bunch of yellow liquid in it, and it sure as shit wasn’t Mountain Dew. First of all – there’s a freaking dumpster for the construction debris. It’s where Rene and I put all the garbage we picked up! And I guess I can’t blame them for peeing into a container since we cannot see a port-a-potty for these guys to use. That is on the builder – give the workers a place to do their business with dignity you bastards! But hey – if you piss in a bottle, for crying out loud PLEASE dispose of it yourself.

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  12. Jeff Gill said on June 7, 2023 at 8:22 am

    In this neck of the woods, getting 3 bids would be difficult. Hire us or hire someone else is the reply of many understaffed contractors.

    Dorothy, it’s a straight up OSHA requirement to have a portalet or some option for any job site that is more than roll on, roll off.

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  13. David C said on June 7, 2023 at 8:57 am

    My construction story beats yellow liquid. When our house was being built, we came in and there was a five gallon bucket sitting in the the middle of the dining room with a brown cylindroid in it. Also the piece of fiberglass insulation he wiped himself with. There are gas stations within a few blocks with rest rooms so what the…

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  14. Little Bird said on June 7, 2023 at 9:44 am

    Quick question about water and Michigan…. what about Flint?

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  15. Mark P said on June 7, 2023 at 10:11 am

    I was listening to one of those long-form interviews on public radio. Someone had written a book about the unaffordability of those coastal cities. She started by talking about the service economy people, like hotel and restaurant employees, but almost immediately went to the well-off-but-not-quite-well-off-enough professionals. The author and the interviewer completely forgot about the real losers in the housing race. But who cares about them? We need to worry about someone who can’t afford $1 million+, not someone who has trouble finding an apartment for less than twice their monthly income.

    Atlanta is not an alternative, unless you want to spend most of the rest of your life in traffic. My brother worked at the Georgia Tech Research Institute and found a nice older home about two miles from his office. That was close to 20 years ago, and developers were already buying houses with fairly small lots, demolishing the house and putting three or four houses up. Of course my brother was coming from San Diego.

    The coastal elite don’t think about places like St Louis or Huntsville, Al, or Albuquerque because no one points them out as they fly over. They are incredibly ignorant of anything outside their personal bubble. That’s why they think that housing is a problem for young professionals but can’t seem to remember that the people that served them their lunch need a place to live, too.

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  16. LAMary said on June 7, 2023 at 10:14 am

    Yeah, Allstate and State Farm dropped the whole state here. I know Allstate dropped lots of specific locations years ago. I live in one. Why? We have a lot of trees and grassy hillsides I guess. If I was going to move I have no idea where I’d go. Maybe some place in northern CA that isn’t considered cool and doesn’t have the potential to spontaneously combust.

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  17. JodiP said on June 7, 2023 at 10:24 am

    Just looked up median home prices for the Twin Cities: $322,461.

    And yeah, the north shore (Duluth) is a beast in the winter. You really, really have to be OK being indoors or embrace it. A couple years ago we did a winter trip to Grand Marais which is about 2 more hours north. It was fantastic–XC skiing and a very memorable guided hike through one on the state parks with a woman who was over 70. We were able to go to many waterfalls that aren’t accessible in other seasons. The WC was -35 but we were so active we stayed warm.

    Even here in Minneapolis we still get some long-ass winters with a lot of snow. This past one was one of those.

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  18. nancy said on June 7, 2023 at 10:47 am

    What about Flint and water, LB? The general narrative is pretty well-known by now: The emergency financial management of the impoverished city decided to save money by no longer buying water from Detroit. It had to come a long way and some of it was uphill, so they paid the highest rates in the water/sewer district. He decided to restart the old water-treatment plant on the Flint River, which didn’t have the necessary equipment to add the anti-corrosive chemicals that keep lead from leaching into the water via the pipes. (Older homes nearly all had lead service lines.) They thought they’d be fine until a second Lake Huron pipeline came online in another year or two, but they weren’t.

    People who bleat “Flint still doesn’t have clean water” are wrong. The source was switched back to Detroit as soon as the scope of the disaster took form. Unfortunately, the damage was done by then, and the long, long, very laborious process of digging up old service lines and replacing them with PVC began. Last I read, they were closing in on finishing it. It took years.

    Also, remember a few years back, when Elon Musk, perhaps high on Adderall or his own ego, tweeted that he would “fix” Flint? He didn’t.

    Here’s something I wrote about the pipe-replacement project, in 2016.

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  19. Little Bird said on June 7, 2023 at 12:10 pm

    Thank you for clearing that up!

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  20. alex said on June 7, 2023 at 1:17 pm

    So Chris Licht is out at CNN. In his Atlantic interview the other day, he was arguing that the world needed more journalists with the MAGA mindset to balance out all of the liberals in the business. I say why stop with journalism? MAGAts think they know more than doctors and scientists too.

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  21. Jeff Borden said on June 7, 2023 at 2:04 pm

    David C,

    My sister (who lives 20 miles south of Lake Erie) and I have often talked about the growing political power of the west and southwest and whether it might translate into a water grab from the Great Lakes. As noted above, they are considered international bodies of water, but with all the America Firsters around these days, who knows if that would hold up?

    When I moved to Chicago in 1989, I thought it might be the last livable big city. We had a two-bedroom apartment in Lakeview with central HVAC two blocks from Lake Michigan and four blocks from Wrigley Field at a cost of $750 per month. Eating out was cheap. A bicycle gave you entry to the entire city and its 26-mile uninterrupted lakefront.

    I can’t say that any more. We’re waaaaaay overpriced. My silly little house of 1,300-square-feet is appraised at $647,000 by the county auditor. There’s nothing in our neighborhood below $750,000.

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  22. Scout said on June 7, 2023 at 2:29 pm

    I’ve lived in Phoenix for 40 years and have witnessed changes in climate; even hotter summers and increasingly colder winters with shrinking decent weather springs and falls. Water isn’t a day to day issue yet, but it’s going to be. We had a wet winter with lots of snow up north so that helped temporarily. Housing is ridiculous. I guess it seems affordable if you’re moving from Southern California, but to people like us with moderate and soon to be fixed incomes, it’s insane. A year and a half ago we wanted to sell our 1400 square foot home on a giant lot for something about the same size with a small yard. Silly me, I thought it could be a lateral move or even a $$ downsize move, but no. Investors were buying everything up over asking and paying cash. Luckily we decided not to list our house until we found something else first. We are considering Mexico for retirement. No cold weather and we’d be escaping Magadonia.

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  23. Mark P said on June 7, 2023 at 4:30 pm

    People who talk about a pipeline from the Great Lakes to the Southwest don’t have a clue how much it would cost, both in initial construction and ongoing costs. Same with the idea of desalination plants on the West Coast with pipelines heading east to the desert. I don’t think the rest of the country will feel that charitable, and the people living in the desert sure as hell won’t want to pay the entire bill.

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  24. Sherri said on June 7, 2023 at 5:38 pm

    What Mark P says. A water pipeline from the Great Lakes to the West is a pipe dream, so to speak.

    There will have to be changes in how water is used in the West, in agriculture especially. Like not growing water intensive crops like alfalfa in areas that require intense irrigation, then exporting the alfalfa.

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  25. Deborah said on June 7, 2023 at 6:22 pm

    I’ve been doom scrolling about climate change the last few days because I’ve pooped myself out doing so much gardening since I got to NM. I’ve had a major shift in plans about the situation and I’m not buying or planting anymore, mostly gardening will involve cleaning/keeping up with what is already here in our Santa Fe yard. The snow pack from the winter was decent and it has been incredibly rainy here since mid-May, haven’t even needed to turn on the building’s drip irrigation system. The nearby Santa Fe river is rushing, everything is green, green, green and cool but of course it can’t last. There have thankfully been no fires either, that I’ve heard of anyway.

    Speaking of fires, you folks who live in the Northeast (are there any here?) and Northern midwest are you experiencing the smoke from the eastern Canadian fires? Photos of NYC skies are unbelievable. I read that the smoke stretches across the east coast, west to Minnesota.

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  26. David C said on June 7, 2023 at 7:25 pm

    We’re getting some smoke from a couple of smallish fires in Michigan. Nothing like out east. The sky is white instead of blue. That never happens when the dew point is only 40° like it is. Once in a while we get a whiff of smoke and they say the air is unhealthy. So it’s a beautiful day and we have the house shut up.

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  27. Dorothy said on June 7, 2023 at 7:45 pm

    Here in central Ohio the skies are white, too but I’m not having trouble breathing. Then again I have no issues like asthma. My windows have been open the last 72 hours and it’s been pleasantly cool at night. I think we’re expecting rain on Sunday so that will help.

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  28. Sherri said on June 7, 2023 at 8:19 pm

    I feel for anyone dealing with poor air quality like NYC. It’s pretty much become an annual thing around here, but not usually until August. Skies like you see in the pictures are why I gave up and installed air conditioning in our house a few years ago.

    My AC is running today, in June, because it’s 86 out there. We’ve already had a significant heat wave in May this year, and June is looking like it’s going to be warmer than normal. June is usually called Junuary around here, because it’s often cool and rainy; the rule of thumb is the rainy season doesn’t end until the 5th of July. Little League has a hard time getting their games in because so many get rained out. Not this year.

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  29. Suzanne said on June 7, 2023 at 8:49 pm

    Our daughter lives out East and says it’s terrible. The air smells like a campfire and the sky is yellowish.

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  30. Joe Kobiela said on June 7, 2023 at 9:02 pm

    Flew a charter to Boston Monday and came back today went up to 24,000ft to get over the smoke, couldn’t see much straight down, visibility at Fwa was down to 5 miles or so.
    Pilot Joe

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  31. Mark P said on June 7, 2023 at 11:12 pm

    The Atlanta TV stations have been showing the milky skies there, but it’s not as bad here in NW Georgia. But I did get a whiff of smoke when I took the dogs for a walk. Fortunately it’s not much of an issue here.

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  32. Deborah said on June 8, 2023 at 12:22 am

    Aw shucks, the pianist George Winston has died. I really liked his music, while it helped me get through leaving my marriage. I went to see him in concert when I lived in St. Louis, I can’t remember now if he played barefoot or if he had socks on, it was more than 30 years ago.

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  33. LAMary said on June 8, 2023 at 12:35 am

    Ditto on the horrible air and weird sky color, Sherri. That’s not uncommon here from late summer to late October. The sky is pretty much the same color day and night with a red sun or moon showing in a gray (light gray or dark gray) sky.

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  34. Sherri said on June 8, 2023 at 1:27 am

    Staging a Trump rally isn’t the only reason he’s gone, but Chris Licht sure crashed and burned at CNN. He was trying to execute a stupid strategy his billionaire right wing boss wanted that was doomed, but he didn’t even execute it well.

    Licht himself doesn’t appear to be a MAGA, but as Perry Bacon says, he’s definitely “auditioning to be today’s version of the white moderates” MLK took to task in Letter from a Birmingham Jail.

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  35. Dexter Friend said on June 8, 2023 at 3:31 am

    LA Mary, 53 years ago when I frequently drove from Monterey to San Francisco, I’d drive through Half Moon Bay, a quaint small village on the ocean, and I thought that maybe if it was in the stars I would love to live there someday. Last year the place kept popping up in the news for its lavish golf courses. I didn’t recall it that way, but I researched the real estate value for prospective home buyers. It ain’t no sleepy little affordable village no more! More like Malibu pricing.

    I have been dx’d with both COPD + asthma. I have it controlled with two inhalers and a pill, but yesterday we had a slight smell of smoke and a weird sky, and I had my first coughing fit in a long time, and we haven’t gotten anything like the east has.
    Al Roker’s map showed we are going to really get a dose of smoke today, the 8th. I have plenty of Combivent. That is the rescue inhaler.

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  36. Marie said on June 8, 2023 at 5:36 am

    Reporting in from NW Connecticut. Tuesday was otherworldly around here, woke up to a bright orange/red sun and extreme haze and gray skies. The entire day it was light out but with a yellow cast, extremely hazy/smokey, sun was never really “out” through the haze. It was very eery and post apocalyptic. Yesterday was not as bad as it was on Tuesday here, I think the worst of the smoke was in the NYC area then. I do have a lung condition and the air smells like smoke, intermittently much stronger. I read about air filters etc and decided to run my forced air unit on just the fan. (It’s not very hot here, 60-70, sun being blocked so much it’s not heating up during the day, otherwise I could turn on the a/c). Main point is the fan is circulating the air through the filter but not heating or cooling it.

    Perhaps this smoke will wake up a few more people to the dangers of climate change and air pollution. On the other hand, I had a plumber here in the midst of this who told me “Now Biden wants to get rid of all natural gas everywhere in the US”. Is this a new FOX talking point?

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  37. Dorothy said on June 8, 2023 at 7:19 am

    On TODAY just now Al Roker mentioned he was on a plane leaving LaGuardia yesterday and as the plane rose, the smoke actually got into the cabin of the plane causing people to cough. They thought the plane’s HEPA filters would keep it out but that didn’t happen.

    And my daughter in the D.C. area just texted that it’s very smoky smelling there this morning.

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  38. alex said on June 8, 2023 at 8:48 am

    In lighter news, Pat Robertson croaked. Hope he likes his special place in Hell.

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  39. Deborah said on June 8, 2023 at 9:19 am

    I was beginning to think that Pat Robertson was a vampire or something, that guy was an old man when I was a kid.

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  40. JodiP said on June 8, 2023 at 9:28 am

    Reporting from Minneapolis: it’s been hazy a bit the last few days, but today is sunny and clear. I checked on air quality on our pollution control agency and it’s marked good for most of the state. Maybe 24% is moderate, the next level down.

    I am reading Bill McKibben’s Substack and the most recent one was a reminder that billions of people in Asia experience what the NE has right now every day due to pollution from exhaust and industry. It’s so bad that the stats on its contribution to deaths is very sobering.

    I tried creating a hyperlink but when it didn’t work I saw that in the editing feature extra code was added. This happened yesterday as well. Any idea what’s going on? You can just search for it too–it’s free to read and it’s the most recent post.

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  41. ROGirl said on June 8, 2023 at 9:39 am

    I drive east in the morning and usually the sun is really bright and the glare bothers me, but it has been noticeably hazy the past few days. I usually walk at lunchtime and haven’t had any problems.

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  42. 4dbirds said on June 8, 2023 at 11:25 am

    My son has been accepted in this program. Sorry don’t know how to do tiny URL. He is a coder who works from home and wants to first find an affordable apartment and then maybe a few acres to also have a hobby farm. He moves in September. He realizes that Oklahoma is a regressive state, but Tulsa is somewhat blue and who know if enough people move to these smaller red states maybe just maybe they can turn them purple.

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  43. 4dbirds said on June 8, 2023 at 11:37 am


    I live in the Virginia suburbs of DC, and I definitely felt a tinge of smoke at the back of my throat when I went out this morning.

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  44. LAMary said on June 8, 2023 at 1:09 pm

    Pat Robertson’s 700 Club was named that referring to the monthly donation Pat was asking for. My ex’s grandmother who was living on Social Security and what she could make selling Avon products was sending that con man cash every month. I doubt it was 700 bucks every month but she was hitting us up for monetary help pretty often. We didn’t know it was going to Pat. I want a refund of those bucks.

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  45. Deborah said on June 8, 2023 at 1:54 pm

    My former Mother-in-law was a big 700 Club fan, when she came to “help out” for a couple of weeks after LB was born she had that crap on our TV, it drove me nuts. I don’t know if they contributed but I wouldn’t be surprised. The shysterism of those “gimme gimme” religious types is appalling. The mansions, cars and jets those “preachers” have is disgusting. My husband’s younger daughter got caught up in the cult of one of those people, at this point no one in his family knows where she is, she left her husband and young teenaged daughter to follow the scam. She suffers from bi-polar disorder and was definitely exploited in a vulnerable state. It sickens me.

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  46. Julie Robinson said on June 8, 2023 at 2:00 pm

    Vampire/vulture; both work well for Robertson.

    4dbirds, the Tulsa program looks intriguing. Keep us tuned in to how it goes for your son.

    I’m glad the burn smoke wasn’t in NYC when we were there two weeks ago because I have asthma and some additional lung damage from Covid. It’s under control so much of the time that I didn’t even think about packing my rescue inhaler.

    A couple of Broadway shows and Shakespeare in the Park cancelled last night for the safety of their performers. Remember reading about the Fresh Air Fund? Its purpose was to get inner city kids out to camps in upstate New York, where they could breathe fresh air for a couple of months. Hope it doesn’t need to be brought back.

    When I was a kid and we’d drive into Chicago from rural Sycamore I would always get a headache the moment we reached the smog zone. The city got the air cleaned up for the most part and the headaches stopped.

    Apropos of nothing we saw the touring cast of Into the Woods last night, most of them straight from Broadway. It’s another Sondheim masterpiece and left me in a puddle of (good) tears.

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  47. Brandon said on June 8, 2023 at 2:04 pm

    How Did The 700 Club Get Its Name?

    In 1962, the station suffered financially and almost closed. It had a total operating budget of $700 per month. To keep the station on the air, WYAH produced a special telethon edition of the show. For the telethon, Robertson set a goal of 70 members each contributing $10 per month (equivalent to $97 in 2022), which was enough to support the station.[3] Robertson referred to these members as the “700 Club” and the name stuck. The telethon was successful and is still held annually. [2] –Wikipedia

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  48. Julie Robinson said on June 8, 2023 at 4:23 pm

    Deborah, I forgot to mention that my family also listened to a lot of George Winston. I never saw him in concert, but others reported he did indeed play barefoot. He was fighting multiple cancers for the last 10 years and had undergone a bone marrow transplant. Grim stuff. I think I’ll go have a listen to some of his music in his memory.

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  49. Deborah said on June 8, 2023 at 7:59 pm

    OMG, OMG, OMG, he’s been indicted again!!! I don’t know much more than that except they think it’s 7 counts but unknown what they are.

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  50. Scout said on June 8, 2023 at 8:09 pm

    Donald Trump: “I have been summoned to appear at the Federal Courthouse in Miami on Tuesday, at 3 PM.”

    heh heh

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  51. LAMary said on June 8, 2023 at 8:16 pm

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  52. LAMary said on June 8, 2023 at 8:28 pm

    Gym Jordan said it’s a sad day for America.

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