Everybody wanted to have their picture taken with the rats. I mean, who wouldn’t?
It was a cold morning, and I walked around a bit before noon. The debate was going on inside, the Capitol doors were locked, but the mood was pretty upbeat outdoors. Everyone had to know this was a done deal, but they were going to make a fuss just the same. Some people drove a long way:
I love those jackets. Maybe I should join the Steelworkers apprentice program. And now I wouldn’t have to pay dues.
Even the horses wore riot gear:
But there was no riot. The Americans for Prosperity got their tent pulled down, which I suspect is exactly what they wanted. And this happened:
I’d like to know what went on between the edits. Seriously, when I was there, it was a high-spirited, but not mean-spirited, crowd.
One of the big rats was moved to the top of the east-side steps.
But in the end, this was a total rout for the GOP. This Jonathan Chait piece gets to the heart of it, as does this Yglesias piece. And a few zillion more that you can easily find with a little Googling. In the meantime, I recommend this Gene Weingarten Sunday story on the ongoing — yes, still — case of Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald, he of “Fatal Vision,” “The Journalist and the Murderer” and many other articles and tomes. It’s a good read, pegged to the entrance of none other than Errol Morris on the scene, but the chat he did about it yesterday is better:
I remember the killings. I was an 18-year-old hippie at the time, roughly the same age as Helena Stoeckley. I didn’t do as many drugs as she did, but I did plenty, including mescaline, LSD, and heroin. When I read in the newspaper that Jeffrey MacDonald – still presumed an innocent victim – told police that his attackers had been vicious hippie intruders who chanted “acid is groovy – kill the pigs,” I knew he had done it. As did every hippie in every city who read that statement with any degree of analytical thought. No self-respecting killer hippie would ever have uttered, let alone chanted, that uncool, anachronistic thing as late as 1970. That was exactly what some ramrod-straight 26-year-old Ivy League frat-boy doctor who was contemptuous of the counterculture would have thought a hippie would say.
I was only 12, not a hippie (although an aspiring one), still innocent of the drug culture, but I recall having almost the exact same thought. An early sign of my ear for dialogue, I hope.
Yeesh, this was a long, tiring day, and all I want to do now is rinse it off, maybe with a glass of wine. I leave you with this:
One step forward into the new day, eh?
Edit: I hear the complaints about the comments of late. Considering responses. Please stand by.
Danny said on December 12, 2012 at 1:07 am
Okay, at first I thought your reference to “some people drove a long way” was a jest and that the silhouette on the jacket was that of a Hawaiian island. But alas, it was the Upper Peninsula, which is undoubtedly dissimilar to Hawaii.
Danny said on December 12, 2012 at 1:12 am
Hmmm, Ravi Shankar has died and he lived right down the road from me. I didn’t even know he was sick…
Kim said on December 12, 2012 at 8:02 am
Think of all the people who stood in front of the rat with the “Gov. Synder” sign. I mean, seriously, can’t anyone proof the governor’s name? Top 5 rule of journalism is you get the person’s name spelled incorrectly and what else did you miss getting right?
nancy said on December 12, 2012 at 8:07 am
Yes. And that was a sign someone had to make, not just a scrawled-with-Sharpie deal.
beb said on December 12, 2012 at 8:53 am
Compared to the Haymarket Riots Tuesday with Snyder was a very quiet day, though you wouldn’t know it from the conservative outage that one man could hit during a scuffle.
While the U.P. isn’t as far away as Hawaii, it’s still a bit of a haul.
I haven’t heard of Ravi Shankar in a long time. Sorry to hear that he had died, but he must have been up there in years since he was an old man when I was a youth.
coozledad said on December 12, 2012 at 9:09 am
They were way off on the governor’s name. It’s Devos. Dick DeVos.
Julie Robinson said on December 12, 2012 at 9:11 am
As noted on the radio, many folks today are more familiar with Ravi Shankar as the estranged father of Norah Jones.
Then there’s this from the morning paper, about the closing of a Super 8 in nearby Markle. It seems they failed to pay their sales tax and thus lost their retailer certificate. Nothing out of the ordinary until I read the name of the company: Aryan Hospitality. Who would possibly think that was a good name for a hotel company? The mind reels.
And I’m all for putting up a gate.
Peter said on December 12, 2012 at 9:15 am
Aryan Hospitality? I’ll take the room with a tub instead of a shower! You’ve been a great audience – don’t forget to tip your waitress!
nancy said on December 12, 2012 at 9:18 am
A little Googling indicates Aryan Hospitality is based in India. Maybe it means something different there, like “no bedbugs” or something.
coozledad said on December 12, 2012 at 9:21 am
They were kicking ass until they tried to expand the franchise into Russia.
Dave said on December 12, 2012 at 9:44 am
Reading the Jeffery McDonald story, I’m struck by what I’m always struck by. How does any woman have such a miserable life that she marries a prisoner and tells what a great loving marriage they have, such as Kathryn McDonald and her now ten year marriage to this man? I know it happens, probably more than we are aware of.
Just today, I saw this in the story about the execution in Florida of the “Death Row Romeo”:
“Pardo was dubbed the “Death Row Romeo” after he corresponded with dozens of women
and persuaded many to send him money”.
There are some things I’ll never understand.
Right-to-work in Indiana, doesn’t surprise me that it has happened, but Michigan? Oh dear.
Yes, and I fear what else will happen in Indiana with these clowns coming into office.
Dorothy said on December 12, 2012 at 9:45 am
‘been a long time since I laughed out loud, literally, at something I read here. You did it for me, Nance, with the “no bedbugs” sentence! Thanks for that. I can’t do that too much while I’m at work because I don’t want anyone finding out what I’m reading on my computer screen.
Happy birthday a day late to Mark, and two days late to Charlotte. (Lord I hope I got those names and dates right.) Your grandma’s stories are still rolling around in my head two days after I read your wonderful tribute to her.
Crossing my fingers that Jolene, Deborah, etc. are still at least reading here even if they are withholding commenting for awhile. I try to skip over comments that I know are going to make my blood pressure scroll higher for a bit, but then when I do, I miss the context of some of the following comments. It’s enough to make me dizzy. Or, as my dad used to say about me, dizzier.
brian stouder said on December 12, 2012 at 9:53 am
Dorothy, I’m going to steal your “or dizzier” line.
PS – and speaking of a dizzy Dorothy, we couldn’t help but note the impressive previews for Disney’s new Wizard of Oz prequel, which will be a movie I will want to see. I can probably trade Pam the Victor Hugo movie for the L Frank Baum one
BigHank53 said on December 12, 2012 at 10:01 am
Is there anyone here who hasn’t also read Gene Weingarten’s piece on children forgotten in cars? It’s a very, very tough read, but worth it.
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on December 12, 2012 at 10:08 am
THAT’S the one he won the Pulitzer for, IMHO. The Joshua Bell piece was nice, but it became the marker for the “kids in cars” and “Zucchini” pieces, let alone the Ted Gup (sp?) story that no one else could have written. Seriously, I cannot imagine a single other writer, present illustrious company included, who could have gotten, participated in, and written a story like that. Let me rummage for the link . . .
Dorothy said on December 12, 2012 at 10:09 am
I saw those previews on Saturday too, Brian, and was amazed that I had not read anything about that movie! Not that I’m current on every single movie being filmed these days, but I do try to keep up with my Entertainment Weekly subscription. That one was not even on my radar. FWIW we are going to see Les Miz on Christmas Day since we have no visitors coming. (All the excitement begins the next day..!) Hells bells, we might make it a double feature since we’ve got nothing else to do. Second choice would be Zero Dark Thirty.
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on December 12, 2012 at 10:11 am
Hah. Ted Prus. Ted Gup wins his own Pulitzers. Anyhow:
nancy said on December 12, 2012 at 10:11 am
I’m a “Tears for Audrey” fan, m’self.
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on December 12, 2012 at 10:13 am
Four years later: http://blog.mlive.com/chronicle/2008/11/sun_why_ted_still_wont_vote_fo.html
coozledad said on December 12, 2012 at 10:13 am
In some ways, I like seeing the smirky little Republican ids show up here. For one thing, it answers the question “What happened to all those whey faced little booger-pickers on the school bus who dropped off the radar after elementary school?” I thought the ceaseless grinding of the wheels of fate and evolution had consigned them to a potter’s field- but no, I misunderstood evolution, and in particular, the Darwinian concept of fitness, which is shorthand for the willingness to procreate randomly with any breathing thing until one achieves a plurality of little booger-pickers.
With this advantage, it doesn’t matter how many fathers come home and spray the trailer with shotgun pellets, or how many times junior finds dad’s Franklin Mint James Bond commemorative Walther P-38 and unloads it into his siblings, some of them will live to fuck, and fuck they will, and make more and more 2nd amendment trolls.
Arguing with these people is like deciding you want to electrify your house, and instead of going to purchase some wire, you instead stick your dick in a steaming bowl of oatmeal. Statistics say you are not apt to be pleased with the results, and you still won’t have any ice to treat your cock.
nancy said on December 12, 2012 at 10:17 am
Having enjoyed a steaming bowl of oatmeal for my breakfast this very morning, all I can say is: Thanks. Thanks for putting that in my brain today. Although I am also laughing, so there’s that.
Deborah said on December 12, 2012 at 10:23 am
Dorothy, don’t worry, I’ll never stop reading.
Peter said on December 12, 2012 at 10:27 am
“Stick your dick in a steaming bowl of oatmeal” I’m sure there’s a German porn site that specializes in that, and no, I’m not going to look for it.
Sorry for my incomplete knowledge, but aren’t Aryan’s from India in the first place – the whole Indo-Aryan language thing, the swastika originally an Indian religious symbol, etc.
The Reader had an article once about the number of unrelated Patels that run and/or own hotels in the US – basically a few worked in hotels, bought them, brought over more Patels from their home province to work with them because of the home town discount, and it went from there.
Mark P said on December 12, 2012 at 10:30 am
I suspect that Aryan does mean something else in India, since the word originated there with no negative racial meaning. But it shows a real disconnect with what’s going on in the U.S., not to mention world history, for even an India company to name itself that today.
Mark P said on December 12, 2012 at 10:32 am
Peter, I believe that Patel is a common Indian name that originally indicated a profession, like Smith or Carpenter, and that profession actually had to do with renting of housing.
Snarkworth said on December 12, 2012 at 10:37 am
Somewhere I read the names of the board of directors of some U.S. motel association: Patel, Patel, Patel, Maloney, Patel and Patel.
MichaelG said on December 12, 2012 at 10:41 am
Belated Happy! to Mark and Charlotte.
Icarus said on December 12, 2012 at 10:44 am
Reading the Jeffery McDonald story, I remember watching Fatal Vision on TV and wondering, how does a Green Beret not out ass kick a bunch of hippies?
Keep in mind I was 13-14 at the time
Jolene said on December 12, 2012 at 10:51 am
From Wikipedia, the derivation of Aryan.
Bitter Scribe said on December 12, 2012 at 10:53 am
I’m a little uncomfortable calling Indian people “Patels” because of that jerk line from that jerkass David Mamet.
As for MacDonald, I thought the case against him was solid and still think so today.
Jolene said on December 12, 2012 at 10:58 am
how does a Green Beret not out ass kick a bunch of hippies?
Many people, challenging MacDonald’s explanation of the crime, have wondered why they would leave the most threatening person in the house–a healthy male–alive, while killing a female and two small children. Clearly, it would make more sense to take the male out of the picture first. Of course, that assumes some rationality, which was not part of the picture MacDonald painted of the “attackers.”
But I am with Gene. MacDonald did it. It’s the only fact that explains everything.
Jolene said on December 12, 2012 at 11:09 am
In case you missed it, Mick Jagger doing The Top 10 on The Late Show last night. Just amazing how slender and lithe he is. Will be 70 in July.
Julie Robinson said on December 12, 2012 at 11:24 am
Thanks for all the explanations, and I’ve heard that many hotels these days are owned by Indians and Pakistanis. Noble Hospitality sounds like a place I’d like to stay; Aryan, not so much.
LAMary said on December 12, 2012 at 11:56 am
There are four Dr. Patels where I work and every time I hear one of them paged I think of that David Mamet line.
Prospero said on December 12, 2012 at 12:11 pm
I knew hippies back then that could have kicked MacDonald’s ass. But they were really Cointelpro thug infiltrators, aiding the war effort. Better to drink that wine, Nancy, than to bathe in it. Jagger’s was hilarious on that Top Ten, but may favorite part of the video is the ending with the great Solomon Burke song. I think that’s the best cover the Stones ever did:
One thing that always struck me about the Jeffrey MacDonald murder story is comparisons to the assumptions brought to it by Americans with those that attended the OJ trial. Despite a mountain of valid forensic evidence against MacDonald and the absurdity of his claims about what happened, there are still folks that insist MacDonald is innocent. OJ may well be guilty, but it’s an immutable fact that nobody ever proved it, nor even presented any reasonable evidence against him, in fact, no evidence was presented that wasn’t fairly obviously manufactured, but everyone assumes guilt, perhaps because of the civil show trial. The civil trial did serve a valid purpose, which was to get Ron Goldman’s money-grubbing obnoxious dad off my TV. I remember when MacDonald was arrested, belief in his guilt or innocence became an ideological divide indicating opinions on the war. How fucked up is that. You know Nixon thought a Green Beret wouldn’t have done that.
It’s also interesting that MacDonald’s lawyers used habeas corpus as a basis for his appeals. The Scalito Court has been doing it’s best to dismantle that legal doctrine for years. MacDonald’s seven SC reviews is anomalous to the point of being suspicious.
brian stouder said on December 12, 2012 at 12:15 pm
Worth clicking just to see the photos…and one could have a little fun with a caption contest, I betcha
Trevor Goins lives about a half-mile from the explosion and was watching television in his apartment when he saw a ripple in his coffee cup and the floor shook. “I thought possibly (it was) a plane crash,” said Goins, who immediately went outside with several neighbors. “It was so loud it sounded like a turbine engine. You almost had to put your hands over your ears.” He got in his car and drove closer, seeing fire that stretched as high as the hilltops.
“The flames were so high, they were so massive,” he said. “I could only imagine what had happened” Carper said the flames spanned about a quarter of a mile and ran through a culvert under the interstate. “It actually cooked the interstate,” he said. “It looks like a tar pit.”
beb said on December 12, 2012 at 12:29 pm
I think Patel means farmer, but I could be wrong. In any case I am mercifully unexposed to any Mamet comment regarding them.
Dexter said on December 12, 2012 at 12:53 pm
This gun is pretty close to the real thing that Coozledad mentioned in the infamous oatmeal-fuck post.
It was less than forty years ago when toy guns became so non-grata…I bought a bean-shooting plastic full size gun that loads and looks like this. I’ve had it 41 years, this plastic toy, and it still shoots navy beans with accuracy. It was banned for sale because it was too easy to use to rob banks.
When was the last time you heard of someone from your immediate area being killed in Afghanistan? It’s been a long time here. This morning I heard about a soldier from the Cincinnati area being killed in Afghanistan.
I always flash back to old TV news stories from my high school days when I hear of any war deaths, when Uncle Walter would say, “220 US soldiers were killed lat week in Vietnam, with 2,400 Vietnamese dead.” I guess we just got used to it, didn’t pine over the fact that many of us young kids were ticketed for that place in the short-future. I wonder how people really “took it” when WWII deaths were reported back home…especially when the dead were buried there, gone forever.
Bitter Scribe said on December 12, 2012 at 12:59 pm
Propsero, you’re way, WAY out of line calling Fred Goldman names. He was not “money-grubbing” or “obnoxious.” He was a grieving father cheated out of justice by a slimy defense lawyer who dealt the race card from the bottom of the deck.
Prospero said on December 12, 2012 at 1:18 pm
I had three different Patel families worth of students when I was teaching HS, and it was always a happy occasion to find the name on a class roll. One guaranteed diligent, friendly, respectable and bright student at least, guaranteed for the class. I always knew I could trust family names in this way, which may or may not say something about nurture and nature. And there is much to be said for the presence of even one reliably good kid in a class, no matter the preponderance of juvenile and infantile delinquents.
Here’s a book I just had delivered that I bought as a Christmas present:
I’m ordering it for myself immediately, after a quick scan. Heard about this through nyrb Classics, a great source for books. I think a lot of y’all would find both the book and the source interesting. nyrb is great for mid 20th century literary fiction that has fallen into the memory hole. Last superb novel I got from them, The Mangan Inheritance, by Brian Moore, Kingsley Amis funny. They send excellent bookmarkers with every book, and even sent me a nice carryall perfect for bringing the IPA bottles to recycling once.
Basset said on December 12, 2012 at 1:18 pm
Dexter, “gone forever” indeed… my FIL and I were walking the old family farm a few years back when he pointed out a grove of… I think they were poplars… that his family had planted “to remember me by in case I didn’t come back” from WW2. As it turned out, Hiroshima and Nagasaki got nuked while he was on a troopship headed that way, and a bigger fan of Harry Truman you could not find anywhere.
Meanwhile… Anyone know if the Ford Rouge overpass, site of the 1937 battle, still exists? Seems that with yesterday’s events some recognition should have been made there.
Dorothy said on December 12, 2012 at 1:21 pm
I’m not arguing with you Dexter, but I just wanted to point out that the Navy Seal who was killed rescuing the kidnapped doctor in Afghanistan recently was from the town next to where I lived for 13 years, Monroeville PA. One of my brothers knew his dad. And my brother-in-law leaves on Friday for his 9 month stint over there, and in June my son will be starting his 9 months. All of my hopes are pinned to the wish that both will come back to us, intact and alive, when they’ve completed their service.
Prospero said on December 12, 2012 at 1:31 pm
Scribe: Fred Goldman had had nothing to do with his son for years befor the kid died. And His incessant presence in front of cameras was obnoxious. I think his behavior indicated he was after every dime he could squeeze out of the case. And the “slimy defense lawyer” merely pointed out there was no credible evidence against his client and a great deal of evidence that a clearly racist cop had gone out of his way to fabricate stuff. I believe its my prerogative to doubt Mr. Goldman’s sincerity. I also think that the civil wrongful death trial being moved to Simi Valley, where actual real time video evidence was insufficient to get Stacey Koons convicted of using excessive force in “arresting” Rodney King is evidence the fix was in somehow, as is the ridiculously trumped up frame job that eventually put OJ in jail for “kidnapping”.
Bitter Scribe said on December 12, 2012 at 1:41 pm
Prospero: Goldman went in front of the cameras as often as he did to make sure that his son, the victim, did not get forgotten in the media circus. How much contact he had or didn’t have with his murdered son has nothing to do with the price of rice.
“No credible evidence” my ass. There was blood DNA evidence that solidly implicated Simpson, which the defense got the jury to ignore through a naked race hustle, abetted by an ass of a judge.
Linda said on December 12, 2012 at 1:49 pm
What a bizzaro situation: McGinniss suckered MacDonald, and MacDonald suckered Erroll Garner. He flattered him into thinking that he would be returning Garner to his great breakout triumph: freeing an innocent man from prison. And in a sense he did, because the media tends to not pay close attention to stuff, and is eager to write man bites dog stories. Who’s zoomin’ who?
Linda said on December 12, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Re: your question on women who marry guys like MacDonald. The relative of a woman who married a serial killer once said of his relation that she couldn’t deal with real relationships with men, and having a “marriage” with a guy who wouldn’t get out of prison, except in a box, gave her the title of “marriage” without the reality. That made some odd sense to me.
coozledad said on December 12, 2012 at 2:01 pm
Linda: Given that information, I’m starting to see dollar signs in a “born losers” online dating service. There’d have to be some kind of insurance fee payable if the incarcaree got sprung, but that’s what actuaries are for.
DellaDash said on December 12, 2012 at 2:04 pm
Bitter Scribe – not sure whether to admire you for rebutting some of Prospero’s outrageously twisted rants…or to pity whatever tender bits of yours just got scorched in steaming oatmeal…
Chris in Iowa said on December 12, 2012 at 2:08 pm
File this under: Newspaper management hits a new low.
Jolene said on December 12, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Here’s an intriguing tidbit that popped up in my FB newsfeed: An almost free alternative to the Pap test that is saving lives in India and other developing countries. I wonder if it will come to be used here. Unfortunately, there’s no info in this article comparing the accuracy of the two tests. Still, interesting to know about.
Prospero said on December 12, 2012 at 2:28 pm
Ravi Shankar had another beautiful and incredibly talented daughter named Anoushka, who is pals with Norah Jones and has collaborated with her:
One gorgeous song.
Blood evidence in the Simpson trial: There was ample evidence that the DNA samples were out of custody and in Fuhrman’s possession for periods of at least a day at a time. He obviously faked the glove, why would anybody believe he didn’t tamper with the blood evidence?
All in all, evidence was out of chain of custody and that was admitted to by both Fuhrman and Marcia Clarke. Fuhrman admitted to walking around with the blood samples over a weekend before putting them into the lab. Pointing out Fuhrman’s unquestioned bigotry was not sleazy, it was what a responsible lawyer owes his client. The blood evidence was roundly disputed by Dr. Henry Lee, the foremost criminologist in the USA at the time, as to potential contamination and the integity of the process by which the evidence made it to trial. And if the “race card” was in play, I’m sure that had nothing to do with holding the civil trial in Simi Valley.
MarkH said on December 12, 2012 at 2:29 pm
First of all, many thanks to all of you for the birthday greetings yesterdy. It’s all good; I try to count my blessings every day. One of which is tuning into nn.c where I tend to learn something every time. even from Prospy. Except today. Go, Scribe!
Back to Jolene’s reference to Mich Jagger. Conventional wisdom used to be that “Brown Sugar” was written about Tina Turner. Not so. I always thought it was written about Stones sorta-groupie/singer Claudia Linnear. Now comes British singer Marsha Hunt auctioning off a bunch of Jagger love letters (fetching $300,000) and there are claims she is the inspiration?
Cooze or Prospy will likely weigh in on this one. Inquiring minds want to know.
MarkH said on December 12, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Mark P said on December 12, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Chris in Iowa, the newspaper’s behavior was exceptionally unprofessional. Every manager at every level of any organization should have at least a mental list of everyone but himself that gives the order in which layoffs will occur. If I had been given that choice, I would have told them to go f*** themselves and would have stood on a desk in the newsroom to tell everyone what had happened.
Bitter Scribe said on December 12, 2012 at 2:37 pm
Prospero: Utter, complete bullshit.
Fuhrman was an LAPD homicide detective and as such was part of “the chain of custody.” The entire case against him boiled down to, “He uttered the word ‘nigger’ in a completely unrelated context, therefore he could have been out to frame OJ.” The dumbshits on the jury bought it, and they should never have had the chance to do so because that jackass of a judge should have shut down that defense before it ever saw the light of day.
Danny said on December 12, 2012 at 2:42 pm
Prospero would have made an ideal OJ juror. Arguments to the contrary are hereby nullified and will not be heard. Court is adjourned and these proceedings are closed.
mark said on December 12, 2012 at 3:08 pm
If Prospero had been a juror, he would have also single-handedly found and prosecuted the real killer and explained how he could have saved the victims with aggressive emergency medicine while simultaneously protecting Nicole’s home and valuables from dishonest onlookers.
I’m also declaring my statements to be immutable fact so, you know, I win.
Danny said on December 12, 2012 at 3:09 pm
Money quote: “The Homeland Security Department instructed federal agents not to arrest him until after Election Day, a U.S. official involved in the case told the AP.”
Narrative much, DNC?
BigHank53 said on December 12, 2012 at 3:09 pm
Now, I’m of the opinion that OJ did kill his ex and Ron Goldman, and also of the opinion that the jury reached the proper decision.
The blood evidence is there. But the LAPD did such a motherfucking awful job of handling it that it is conceivable that it was all fabricated. Fuhrman mishandled evidence. (And lied under oath–whoopsie!) Van Atta mishandled evidence. The technicians at the LAPD crime lab mishandled evidence. If the LAPD had been in charge of the Jeffery McDonald case, the crime scene photos would all have a thumb in them and McDonald would be earning 1.2 mil a year shooting Botox into has-beens’ foreheads right now.
And they knew it was a huge case, that there would be lawyers and private investigators up the wazoo, and they fucked the chicken anyway. How much effort did they put into an ordinary case? How sure are you that anyone they sent to prison was treated fairly? If OJ walking around free is the price of forcing the LAPD to act like a competent police force*, then so be it.
*I have no idea if they’ve learned their lesson or not. Likely not.
Julie Robinson said on December 12, 2012 at 3:11 pm
Well, Heloise is always saying how wonderful vinegar is! What I find just as wonderful is that it took eight years for the test to be accepted, but the health workers didn’t give up. How many Westerners would have that kind of patience?
Danny said on December 12, 2012 at 3:12 pm
I’m also declaring my statements to be immutable fact so, you know, I win.
mark, I like the cut of your jib, Mister!
Danny said on December 12, 2012 at 3:14 pm
BigHank, good points.
brian stouder said on December 12, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Well, I’ve got decades of experience as a denizen of the cheap seats. Here at nn.c, or at a Fort Wayne Community Schools board meeting, or at a gathering of Lincoln scholars, or at an IPFW Omnibus lecture – look up there in the nosebleed section, and that’s where I’ll be, yes?
And, I recall being upset and distracted by the OJ acquittal, way back in the day. It all seemed so obvious, from where I was sitting. As the years have gone by, I reached the (plainly obvious) conclusion that if you can afford the very very very best defense attorneys, and all that that entails (private investigations and expert witnesses and mystical litigators), why then – you’re gonna get every benefit of every doubt that they can produce. And, that’s OK. (what would the alternative system be, if we traded in our jury system?)
And then, about 2 months ago, I got hooked into real-live, honest to God (so help me, God) jury duty, for a real-live trial where an actual person (who was younger than me by a decade) was on the receiving-end of the State of Indiana’s best efforts to imprison him, most likely for the rest of his life.
And therefore, let me just say, with all due respect for everyone’s opinions, I have very great respect for juries, whatever they decide; and imperfect though this system (or any system) is, I wouldn’t trade it for anything else.
And also, I really (really) enjoy the view from the cheap seats, and don’t envy the folks in the consequential ones (at all)
Prospero said on December 12, 2012 at 4:03 pm
BigHank@58: Agreed. LAPD employed a flaming racist ahole lead detective that provided an unmistakable appearance of malfeasance, and who retreated immediately after the trial to lick his wounds at an Aryan Nation enclave. If anybody can tell me how I suggested I thought Simpson was innnocent, please explain. All i said was that the evidence presented at the trial was insufficient for a reasonable person to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt under the American system of justice. The historical context is the rampant, unrestrained corruption of LAPD at the time the whole thing happened, in which the DA of LACounty Gil Garcetti was eventually embroiled and implicated. At the bottom of my disgust with the whole fracas as it played out is the extent, in the long run, to which Gladstone’s Ratio (“better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffers”) got flushed down the plughole, despite being as basic to American justice as anything.
And taking evidence walking around with you for a couple of days before logging it in and providing it for analysis is breaking the chain of custody, without a doubt, which is why Fuhrman lied his ass off about it under oath, and previously to that, to his superiors. Part of what Fuhrman convenitently didn’t log in for a few days while he had complete access to the crime scene were samples of Simpson’s blood given voluntarily. On the witness stand, Henry Lee opined that he would assume the samples were contaminated under such circumstances. At the time, Roger Cossack and Makeover Van Susteren said they figured the blood evidence was toast.
Had I been a juror, I would have found the prosecution well short of proving dick, much less guilt, beyond a reasonable doubt, because I believe they were. That is the way it’s supposed to work.
Prospero said on December 12, 2012 at 4:05 pm
Fuhrman was at the crime scene several times with vials of Simpson’s blood that had not been logged into evidence. It came out in the testimony at trial. Maybe he was trying to get OJ off.
Bitter Scribe said on December 12, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Fuhrman was the lead investigator in the case. How could he possibly be considered “outside the chain of custody”? The OJ case was one of the most noxious cases of racial manipulation in U.S. history.
Bob (not Greene) said on December 12, 2012 at 5:02 pm
Please, God, tell me there won’t be an emotional, irrational discussion of the OJ case. Let’s stick to how crappy Fender guitars are or how Barry Bonds is pure as the driven snow.
Bitter Scribe said on December 12, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Or better yet, stick to the original topic of this post.
What I as someone unfamiliar with MI politics would like to know is: How the hell did the Republicans manage to control the legislature AND the governorship?
Prospero said on December 12, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Because there are protocols for ensuring the integrity of evidence, and carrying around evidence that requires laboratory analysis on your person violates those protocols. This was all part of the trial testimony, and it seems clear to me why it was so damaging to the prosecutions’ POS case. Only in a Frnz Kafka fiction would Fuhrman’s actions be normal, and then only as a plot device to put a victim of a corrupt legal system in an absurdly untenable situation. As it was, the blood samples from the scene were taken after Fuhrman finally submitted Simpson’s blood to the lab. At that point, he could claim until blue in the face that everything was above-board, but he had tainted the evidence beyond credibility. Coupled with the famous thumping glove, a juror that bought this evidence was not behaving rationally nor justly.
Citibank: Just like Hostess, only ten times more outrageous.
Prospero said on December 12, 2012 at 5:12 pm
Neither of which I ever said, Bob (NG). I have a Fender bass that I think is a fine guitar. I don’t think a Tele is as good as a Les Paul (all I ever said on that subject too). Never said Bonds didn’t use PEDs. I did say nobody has proved the Ds EP, nor that Bonds used them.
LAMary said on December 12, 2012 at 5:42 pm
Could we not get into Fender guitars, drummers or whatever else is argued about using the “yes (he, she it) is, no it isn’t, yes (he, she it) is..” school of debate? I have to go read recipes for health on the NYT site when those start.
Danny said on December 12, 2012 at 5:42 pm
Whew, I am glad that I am not the only one to remember the Bonds discussion of yesteryear.
Danny said on December 12, 2012 at 5:44 pm
Mary, I thought you were going to take that time to write to your shampoo manufacturer regarding what a fine product they have.
LAMary said on December 12, 2012 at 6:01 pm
In fact they do have a fine product. Yay Pantene for fine hair (the one with the yellow and gold label). The coditioner is excellent as well.
I’m going to go look at lentil recipes now.
Catherine said on December 12, 2012 at 6:22 pm
Hey, wasn’t the world supposed to end about 3 hours ago?
Bitter Scribe said on December 12, 2012 at 6:29 pm
Prospero: Those “protocols” are ticky-tack chickenshit that should never have been allowed to serve as the basis for letting a killer go free. And they weren’t. They were just the excuse for a jury inflamed by racial resentments, skillfully stoked.
LAMary said on December 12, 2012 at 6:30 pm
I think it’s the 21st, Catherine. That’s either the day the world ends or my next payday. I forget which.
MarkH said on December 12, 2012 at 7:01 pm
It is, of course, the 21st, so stand by. However, to today I made it a point to note when my official nuclear clock hit 12:12:12 on 12/12/12. I was expecting some sort of lightning strike or religious epiphany about 12/21/12, but it just continued to snow.
LAMary, something you and I have in common (maybe some others here as well) is we spent a significant amount of time tending bar in the ’70s. You in Denver and me in Columbus only wishing I was in the Rockies sliging cocktails. I imagine we could share some war stories sometime.
alex said on December 12, 2012 at 7:52 pm
For some levity—and a slight change of subject—one of my old English teachers passed along one of the more amusing videos I’ve seen in a while. Even though it’s not in English, no subtitles are needed.
coozledad said on December 12, 2012 at 8:42 pm
No one could see this coming.
But there’s no such thing as bad publicity. Right Cher?
I was out in the backyard a shovellin’ snow
When John McCain was picked to run against the negro
Grandpa had to do whatever they said
preacher Joe was no-go
Grandpa felt that old pressure inside of his head.
Grifters, sharks, and skanks
We’d hear it from the people in the know
They’d call us sheisters, wolves, and scum
And people thought the GOP would come around
But people shore is dumb.
My daughter found a skater with a giant inseam
He couldn’t block the shot, so she took it for the team
She was eighteen, he was mentally three
the campaign was alerted
But grandpa couldn’t hear through the haze of whiskey
We never had schoolin’ but we could smell a mark
there was blood in the water so we all commenced to shark
The only real hitch was our problem child, Crack.
So we shipped the little monkey off to jones in Iraq
Lizards, whelps and dreck
we nearly had the country by the balls
They’d call us
Fraudsters, maggots, scuzz.
But ever night Levi’s mom would come around
And treat us to a buzz
Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on December 12, 2012 at 10:10 pm
Chain of custody. Spent an hour of my life I won’t get back listening to a new set of protocols our already cash-strapped juvenile probation department will have to use because, when a drug charge was used to try to get a kid into treatment who was PV’d on a tricky-to-prove charge (i.e., the person they beat up didn’t want to testify), the defense attorney, doing their job, I know, successfully challenged whether or not the urine sample was truly in a chain of custody from the pee in a cup to the OSHP lab.
Now, aside from our inability to run full tests on everything we’d like due to budget pressures, I’d like to know when, in the history of the world, a juvenile court officer has tampered with a urine sample in order to falsely accuse a kid. Anyhow, since the parallel assertion is that “another juvenile who wanted to get my client in trouble could follow the car of the PO, get into it while they do a check on another juvenile, tamper with the sample, and then return it and relock the car” (again, has this ever happened anywhere, ever-ever?), now if you have reason to test a kid while out in the field and make further checks, you have to carry the sample with you into wherever you go, homes, McD, wherever, until you get back to our offices and “secure” the urine sample.
It’s insanity, and this whole general assumption that cops and prosecutors are prone to tampering with evidence I find ludicrous. But you’d expect me to say that. We have too many things to do in too little time to figure out how to make samples work in favor of the prosecutor’s batting average, which we care much less about than they wish we did, truth be told.
Henry Hank Chapin said on December 15, 2012 at 1:59 am
Oh man, that Handsome Fox dude with the big hair tangled with a guy who really knew how to fight. I think the handsome Fox guy was instigator whose mission was to get entangled in arguements, but he met his match.