…I felt less sad and upset after 9/11. Everything gets more difficult for us (meaning me and mine) from here on out — work, finances, everything. I hope this isn’t going-on-2 a.m. drama, but we’re now in uncharted waters, and there be many, many monsters about.

I HAVE to get some sleep, because it’ll be battle stations at work tomorrow and god knows what thereafter. Talk amongst yourselves, and I’ll be back when the well refills.

Posted at 1:25 am in Uncategorized |

137 responses to “Honestly…”

  1. Joe K said on November 9, 2016 at 1:50 am

    I know we don’t agree on everything, but I always respected your opinions way back when you were writing in fort wayne. But for you to say your sadder tonight then after 9/11, well I just lost some of that respect, the murder of all those people meaning less than a election just because your candidate didn’t win? Hopefully after you get some sleep you can reevaluate your thoughts and maybe see that the world is not going to end unlike how it ended for the victims and there families on that horrible day.
    Pilot Joe

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  2. susan said on November 9, 2016 at 1:56 am

    You don’t get it, do you Joe. What a dumbass.

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  3. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 9, 2016 at 1:58 am

    Trump won places that went solidly for Obama over Romney. This is not going to be explained as mere racism; sorry, Cooze, but it isn’t. I voted for Hillary, and I’m going to rest easy on that, as did a number of my conservative friends, and yet . . . here we are.

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  4. alex said on November 9, 2016 at 2:01 am

    I’m in bigger shock than I was on 9/11.

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  5. Crazycatlady said on November 9, 2016 at 2:02 am

    Indeed, the world will not end. But it will be harsher and darker for the people.

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  6. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 2:06 am

    I was watching with a friend. Her husband is a city manager for a nearby town, and when he came home tonight, he said that a couple of school board members said they weren’t sure how many kids would show up tomorrow, there was that much fear among the immigrant community. So yes, Joe, this does make some of us sadder than after 9/11. It’s not about Hillary losing, it about what amTrump victory says about why America is. 9/11, while a tragedy, didn’t call into question American ideals. This does.

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  7. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 2:16 am

    I love you, Jeff, but it’s a whole easier to say it’s not about racism (or bigotry in genera) when you’re a straight white man.

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  8. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 2:23 am

    Join me in supporting the ACLU: https://action.aclu.org/secure/defend-liberty-equality-justice

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  9. Jill said on November 9, 2016 at 2:31 am

    I just tweeted that very thought Nancy, that I will remember tonight like I remember watching 9/11. The horror of the hatred and ignorance…crashing around us. Of course, for the moment, we have only the fear of the future crashing but it seems very real tonight.

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  10. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 2:32 am

    I fear for Little Bird’s healthcare. That’s the worst of it for me. Markets are plummeting. I don’t even care. What a fucking mess.

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  11. Dexter said on November 9, 2016 at 3:04 am

    World markets are in a tornado as a stunned nation tries to accept reality. I take no joy in the fact I did vote for HRC, because I feel like I am now living in an alternate universe; we are all just a big box of Schrodinger’s kittens here for now…if this thing detonates….

    I sat watching , running to the kitchen to make cup after cup of Earl Grey tea, and becoming increasingly shocked…I mean I thought Lewis Carroll had put a rabbit hole in my yard and I had stepped in. All the cartoon renditions of the great Oompa-Loompa Trump ran through my head as I felt like, well… if I hadn’t really transversed over to the other side of reality, I had at least time-travelled back to 1965 and Timothy Leary had dosed me with a double Owsley’s.

    9-11 I was also stunned and mad and revengeful, May 4, 1995 , the day a co-worker was gunned down to death in our company parking lot one minute before I saw the aftermath, and now 11-08-16, as FDR is screaming from the grave, “A day that will live in infamy, part deux.” These are a few of my least-favorite things. The multi-millionaires and the billionaires and ther soon-to-be Right-wing Supreme Court have won, and I and my ilk have just been mauled by the Revenant bear.

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  12. Hattie said on November 9, 2016 at 3:15 am

    I’m 77. This is like the Kennedy assassinations, and Martin Luther King’s. And there were many terrible years after that. We forget the true, cruel, murderous nature of our country, which leads us to be overly optimistic. I’m not afraid for myself, at my age, but I have daughters and grandchildren who will have to live through the terrible times ahead.

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  13. Little Bird said on November 9, 2016 at 3:19 am

    I’m so fucked now. I’m sitting here with friends trying to figure out a way to expatriate. I’m actually afraid for my health/life.
    What the hell is WRONG with America?

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  14. FDChief said on November 9, 2016 at 3:59 am

    Holy fucking hell.

    I feel like a huge plurality of my “fellow citizens” has just handed me a half-empty Bud Light, doused our apartment with JP-4, pulled out a cigarette lighter and belched”OK! Now watch THIS shit!”

    What? Because four years of pantsuit wonkery was gonna be too fucking boring for you douchenozzles?

    I’m sickened…and at the same time I plan on viewing the Trump Administration as the sort of bizarre entertainment seldom encountered outside of a slasher flick. The only real question is whether our tangerine-hued overlord can reach Peak Wingnut or whether Joni Ernst catches him in her gelding shears…

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  15. Heather said on November 9, 2016 at 4:46 am

    I’m terrified. I’m trying to take the view that the veil of illusion has been lifted and now we know what we are and what we’re dealing with, but it’s not really working. I’m trying to find comfort somewhere, anywhere. I don’t think I’ve ever felt so frightened and alone.

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  16. ROGirl said on November 9, 2016 at 5:57 am

    Oh my fucking God.

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  17. Dorothy said on November 9, 2016 at 5:59 am

    I am physically ill this morning – having gotten sick around 12:15 this morning after seeing where the electoral vote count stood. The rising despair and shock are just about too much to handle. And around 3 AM, in between small bouts of sleep, I had a terrible thought and now think I’m becoming like a Trump voter – I thought “All we can hope for is that he gets sick, and dies, and cannot complete his term.” And then I wanted to get sick again – this isn’t how I think. Why would I wish someone DEAD?! But my gut tells me it’s the only way we as a country will be able to survive – if he doesn’t. And now all I can do is cry.

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  18. David C. said on November 9, 2016 at 6:12 am

    I see the prototype of a Trump administration in Duterte in the Philippines. Trump isn’t going to be able to deliver the jobs or anything else he promises, so he’ll keep them occupied shooting “drug dealers”. I’m just beside myself and I don’t know what to do.

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  19. Suzanne said on November 9, 2016 at 6:18 am

    I went to bed when I knew tRump & Gov My Pants were up, hoping for a Cubs-like end of game victory. My sister-in-law is married to an immigrant from the Middle East who is now a citizen, but I will urge them & their beautiful children to move to Canada. I fear for them.
    There is no reality now. None. Reality is whatever you make it.

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  20. marianne19 said on November 9, 2016 at 6:18 am

    In the “honeymoon” period, Congress will pass Ryan’s budget, they’ll appoint a Supreme Court justice to the right of Scalia (!), and so much more. If Trump were to die, Mike Pence will be happy to sign off on the same policies. Maybe the racism, xenophobia and misogyny would be more polite. My heart goes out to you, it’s awful to feel like that. Joe, more people may die from losing health care and other services than died on 9/11 so I understand how people can think this is worse. Very sad day for our country.

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  21. Suzanne said on November 9, 2016 at 6:19 am

    And I think Nate Silver is probably going to need a new job.

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  22. Andrea said on November 9, 2016 at 6:33 am

    Joe, many more people will die in the war on Iran that trump will precipitate, and in the soon to be unchecked global climate change. Not to mention the 20 million people who will lose their health insurance. Just because the deaths won’t come in the collapse of two towers does not mean they won’t come.

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  23. Suzanne said on November 9, 2016 at 6:45 am

    I’ll tell you what concerns me most, which I saw almost no news coverage of. Trump’s business venture are surely getting financed by foreign banks because US banks won’t touch him. Who does he owe? And how much? And what happens if they try to call in his loans? He’s now got the military at his beck and call to take care of that. Sad day for the USA.

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  24. alex said on November 9, 2016 at 7:20 am

    A madman as president and both houses of congress in the the hands of the GOP. This is a disaster worse than 9/11. We figured out who our enemies were pretty quickly that time. Now we live amongst them and have no idea who they are.

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  25. Sue said on November 9, 2016 at 7:29 am

    It’s Wisconsin on a national level – contemptuous legislators marching in step with a heartless executive, and a blatantly biased supreme court to handle the complainers.
    We’re about to get it good and hard in a way Mencken could not have imagined.
    And I am so not looking forward to Sean Hannity as White House press secretary.

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  26. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 9, 2016 at 7:47 am

    Sherri, it’s perhaps easier to make personal accusations, but look at what I *said*. I was assuming the same as you, then looked at vote totals. When she loses places that went solidly for Obama, I think your assumptions need some adjustment.

    And I voted for Hillary. Without hesitation.

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  27. Jeff (the mild-mannered one) said on November 9, 2016 at 7:48 am

    Nate Silver was adjusting faster, more accurately to incoming info than most. But lots of pollsters are going to have trouble getting their last billings cleared.

    I thought this was a useful analysis: the shifts were subtle, not as huge as you might think from the EV totals this am.


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  28. James said on November 9, 2016 at 7:54 am


    We have met the enemy, and he is us.

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  29. basset said on November 9, 2016 at 8:08 am

    Be strong, everyone. We have a nation to preserve here, and it’s not gonna be easy.

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  30. Jolene said on November 9, 2016 at 8:29 am

    I am absolutely stunned. I have been saying for a long time that this election and what I was reading on the Internet were teaching me a great deal about who is living in this country and that what they were teaching me was profoundly disturbing. Now, I am nearly catatonic. The list of things at stake is utterly amazing: climate change, arms control, foreign policy, the Supreme Court, progress for women and minorities, not to mention human decency.

    He is ignorant of so, so many things. Can you imagine him talking over research directions with the head of NIH or NASA? And think of who he has empowered. Rudy Giuliani and Vladimir Putin. Awful, awful, awful.

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  31. basset said on November 9, 2016 at 8:30 am

    I’m expecting the Reichstag to get torched any day now.

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  32. Mark P said on November 9, 2016 at 8:36 am


    Nancy, I know exactly what you mean about 9/11. The September 11 attack was terrible, but it directly impacted a limited number of people. The country came together afterwards, and the world did, too. But this election has the potential of impacting millions of people. If Donald Trump does what he says he will, and if the manipulators behind him control him and get what they want, this county will no longer be what we used to think it was or could be. Part of me wants him to do what he says, because I think a whole hell of a lot of people who voted for him would be very, very sorry in four years. But, if he does what he says he wants to, it will also hurt a whole hell of a lot of innocent people.

    The Republicans decided to shit in their own bed. Unfortunately, we’re also in that bed.

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  33. alex said on November 9, 2016 at 8:41 am

    I haven’t spoken to my elderly parents yet today. They’re both latecomers to the Democratic Party and both were terrified of a Trump presidency. My dad’s a WWII refugee from Europe and this election has been like history repeating itself.

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  34. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 8:51 am

    The uncertainty is staggering. We have no idea what is going to happen. I think Obamacare will certainly be repealed, but replaced by what, if anything? I think Roe v Wade will be overturned eventually. Marriage equality, will be reversed. There will be wars. Lots and lots of people will end up deported. Guns will go through the roof and more people will be in gun accidents, especially children. Mass murders will increase as background checks are lowered. Suicide rates will increase. I don’t honestly think there will actually be a wall, because of the cost. Imagine how many street people will be out there begging when the social programs are discontinued. Climate change will progress unabated, coastal cities will begin to be underwater in the not to distant future. There will be another debilitating global recession, it may already be starting. More people of color will end up in prison and black men will be killed by cops with impunity. Women will be harassed and discriminated against in the workplace, more than ever. Sexual assault will increase. Pollution will get worse as coal and unregulated oil consumption will be encouraged, solar and wind power will be discouraged because they’re renewables and will be harder to be profitable. Food production will become dangerous because of deregulation. Of course taxes will go down for the wealthy and probably up for the middle class. Income equality will be impossible. The press will become a joke. I can’t even imagine what will happen to Muslims. There will be terror attacks because of the way Islam will be regarded globally. Social security will be privatized, Medicare will be cut back. People will go to bed hungry. Creative and innovative people will flee to less oppressive places in the world. I hope I’m dead wrong about a lot of this, but the thing is we really have no idea what will become of our nation. I’m serious, it’s not going to be pretty, people will suffer.

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  35. BethB from Indiana said on November 9, 2016 at 8:53 am

    My step-daughter expressed her feelings (and mine) very well: “I’m stunned and horrified. How did this happen? Wins across the board? I’m scared like never before. We’re doomed.”

    I got up twice in the night to check my phone for news, and it never got any better. I am still in shock.

    No one I voted for here in Indiana won. I knew I was one of the few Democrats in Hamilton County, but I thought that some of “my” candidates for state and national offices would win–not a one. I am sick at heart and so frightened.

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  36. Julie Robinson said on November 9, 2016 at 9:00 am

    The five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. I’m simultaneously in 1, 2 and 4.

    Like Little Bird, my sister won’t be able to get insurance if the ACA is rolled back. And she won’t be able to afford her life-saving meds. How many millions will be facing this?

    Our 401K will tank and we may have to delay retirement.

    Family members who are gay are worried about their rights and personal safety.

    Friends are writing that their children are terrified, especially those with other than white skin.

    Acceptance is going to take a long time.

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  37. Suzanne said on November 9, 2016 at 9:06 am

    “my sister won’t be able to get insurance if the ACA is rolled back. And she won’t be able to afford her life-saving meds. How many millions will be facing this?”

    But Pro-life! Your sister, sadly, is not counted in that.

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  38. FDChief said on November 9, 2016 at 9:13 am

    Re: 9/11 it’s really this simple – in 2001 the US was attacked by a foreign enemy. In 2016 a huge portion of our own neighbors and fellow citizens chose to attack the weakest and most afflicted among us. If you can’t see why the latter is worse, Joe, well…

    Welcome to the new Gilded Age, ladies and gentlemen. Gents, your picks, shoeshine boxes, and cardboard off-ramp signs are over there. Ladies…well, let’s just say that the master expects you in the Blue Bedroom presently.

    It’s Trump’s world now.

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  39. nancy said on November 9, 2016 at 9:21 am

    Let’s not get carried away here. Keep in mind Trump is on track to lose the popular vote, and the people who voted against him did so with extreme prejudice. I think O’care is toast, but I think there will be public pressure for them to come up with something, anything to replace it. (We’ll see if they do.) I’m not worried about civil liberties falling in one fell swoop as much as I am their steady erosion, via an insane SCOTUS.

    My heart breaks for people like one of my former students, a Muslim woman of great intelligence and promise, who tweeted last night that she feels like “a pimple — something unwelcome that grew up in this place.” She is an AMERICAN, through and through, and she’s now terrified for her personal safety and that of her children. Even in Dearborn, that’s not alarmism. The lunatics will feel emboldened to stop by and wave their pig heads and burning Qurans at people, as they’ve done in the past.

    This is far worse than 9/11. That was an attack, by a foreign force, something that’s been going on throughout history. It was terrible, but it made its own grim sense. This is a slasher movie. The calls are coming from inside the house.

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  40. ROGirl said on November 9, 2016 at 9:23 am

    I’ve been thinking that it’s time to sit shiva for democracy.

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  41. jcburns said on November 9, 2016 at 9:43 am

    I’m not a big fan of the Electoral College system this morning.

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  42. The Truffle said on November 9, 2016 at 10:06 am

    I am thinking that after this election the Nate Silvers are toast. Who would take them seriously anymore?

    The Trumpkins are going to regret their vote.

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  43. Jolene said on November 9, 2016 at 10:07 am

    Not a big fan of third-party candidates. In both Florida and Pennsylvania, Johnson got more votes than Trump’s margin of victory. Most of what I heard about third-party voters was “Never Trump, but I don’t like her much either.” To me, that suggests those votes would have gone to Clinton, if people had taken the future a little more seriously.

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  44. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 10:11 am

    I agree that our civil liberties won’t be taken in one fell swoop but will erode over time because of SCOTUS.

    I’m still reeling over how wrong the polls were, from the beginning. Was it that people were embarrassed to admit just how racist and misogynistic they are? I don’t get how they could have gotten it so wrong for so long? It makes you realize that the political consultant class is just as full of hype as can be.

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  45. Mark P said on November 9, 2016 at 10:13 am

    The Donald Trump/Republican party’s relationship with racism/white supremacists is kind of like the relationship between lung cancer and cigarettes. Not everyone who smokes gets lung cancer, but virtually everyone who gets lung cancer is a smoker. And so, not every person who voted for Trump is a racist/white supremacist, but every racist/white supremacist who voted voted for Trump. The simple truth is that racists and white supremacists have found that the Republican Party best embodies and represents their values, and the Republican Party has brought them into their big, old, white tent.

    I don’t know what the Trump America will be like, but I know several groups that urgently need to have a come-to-Jesus meeting. One is the Democratic Party. They need to determine exactly what happened and why and make sure it doesn’t happen again. The Republicans have been good at that. And the news media need to decide whether creating a good story is worth destroying the country. Treating Trump and the Republicans like the opposite side of a coin with Democrats on one side and Republicans on the other is a disservice to truth and their fellow Americans. I believe that the media contributed to a narrative that cast Hillary Clinton as as distasteful a choice as Donald Trump. Watch any TV interview and pay attention to how the interviewers put words into the mouths of the people they interview. It’s everywhere. Watch when they interview someone whose relative was killed. They will ask something like, “Are you devastated? Are you finding it hard to face the world every morning?” And the interviewee will respond, “Yes, I’m devastated. I find it hard to face the world every morning.” Maybe they felt that way before the question was asked, and maybe they didn’t. But they have spoken the words and now they own them.

    And Obama needs to fire the head of the FBI, but he won’t. He’s too good a man and he cares too much about the country. I can’t believe we came from where we were eight years ago to where we are now.

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  46. Mark P said on November 9, 2016 at 10:15 am

    And, Nancy, I know you’re a journalist, and I don’t mean to paint you with the same brush. I’m talking mainly about the national news media, and specifically about television, both cable and network.

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  47. Suzanne said on November 9, 2016 at 10:20 am

    What I so fear is a rogue Trump. If his first action as POTUS is to order Hillary Clinton to be locked up without charges, who will stop him? The GOP, which now completely controls the Congress, has shown no desire to put skids on him, so who will? If he tells the FBI director, or whomever, to “lock her up”, who will refuse, knowing he or she will simply be fired and someone who will do his bidding will be brought in?
    I’m hearing a lot of “oh, we have checks and balances” from a lot of people, but who will insure those are followed? Paul Ryan and friends certainly won’t.

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  48. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 10:25 am

    I’m putting Planned Parenthood on my regular donation list. Little Bird used them for years before the ACA, she could gyn care there for less than paying uninsured rates. Also the ACLU as Sherri suggested.

    We really need to combat the propaganda organs of Fox News and shock jock radio, somehow. People are obviously getting highly slanted misinformation about the world.

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  49. Suzi said on November 9, 2016 at 10:52 am

    Thank you posters for sharing your emotions and thoughts. I don’t share them, but it is helpful to understand their depth and sincerity. As a person who is on the extreme outside of political thinking, I never experience a sense of solidarity or satisfaction with any presidential candidate. They are all just a version of coke or Pepsi, and I want a v-8. I say this because I have spend the last 30 years reading reactions like the ones above. Things are never as good as they seem, or as ad as they seem and that is true in every part of life. So find your hope,give it an extra cup of coffee this morning, and begin working towards the future you want, brick by brick. As Wendall Berry says, “Be joyful, though you know all the facts.”

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  50. brian stouder said on November 9, 2016 at 10:59 am

    Suzi, that has the ring of truth.

    And, the “happy crowd” right now won’t be very happy as their guy proceeds, and doesn’t always get his way (even if Congress is controlled by the R’s, they’ll have different priorities)

    And somehow, the enemy will be “the media”, as various people (like that Mark Burnett guy from The Apprentice)
    slowly cash-out their stored video of the President of the United States talking about women as body parts and playthings – to be cast aside when you’re done playing with them

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  51. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 11:03 am

    Suzi, I appreciate your optimism, and we have a lot of building to do, indeed. But there are real people who are going to suffer in the meantime and some of us are related to those people very closely. I am heartbroken for those people.

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  52. Suzanne said on November 9, 2016 at 11:15 am

    I feel like a Debbie Downer this morning, but Brian, all you say is contingent on Pres Trump acting like a normal president and abiding by the rules. He’s a completely different beast and I don’t think he will. He’ll belittle Paul Ryan and whoever else disagree with him like he did in the debates, calling them names, etc., until they back down. Did it hurt him with his followers? Not one bit. Did it hurt him when Hillary held her ground in her debates and was measured and well versed in policy when he scowled, sniffed, and pranced? No. He was able to push any reasonable GOP candidate into the ground and stuff mud in his or her mouth and walk away smiling. Why would anyone think he’ll act any differently now that he has more power & more support?

    The enemy won’t be just the media. It will be who and what he decides it is. His voters have given him that power and he will do whatever necessary to hold on to it.

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  53. adrianne said on November 9, 2016 at 11:17 am

    Mercifully, this is when the system of checks and balances kicks in. There isn’t much that Trump can do on his own, and the Republicans are at war with one another. It is a very sad day for America, but it’s not the end. As I was making my home on the late MTA train from New York City, I eavesdropped on a conversation among four young men, who looked to be of Arab heritage, and hearing how worried they were about the election aftermath. Trump has unleashed a tsunami of hate and fear in this country.

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  54. ToneyR said on November 9, 2016 at 11:19 am

    I thought this thing was supposed to be rigged! What happened to the rigging?

    My wife is frantic. My seventeen year old daughter, who is preparing for college next year, is beside herself. My two teenage boys are…teenage boys. But all have questions about what happens next which leaves me as the one who has to remain calm and keep a stiff upper lip. The big question i’m stuck on is how do we move forward. Especially when the folks who voted for Mr. Trump seem intent on their pound of flesh.

    But at least we returned this hard working Dem to the Michigan house where he can continue his good work – http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/08/25/michigan-rep-brian-banks-arraigned-felony-case/89362390/

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  55. Suzanne said on November 9, 2016 at 11:22 am

    I hope you are right, Adrianne, but with an incredibly weak GOP in charge of Congress and a Supreme Court with a missing member, who exactly is going to make sure the checks and balances work if Trump decides they don’t matter to him? I don’t see that anyone will.

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  56. Julie Robinson said on November 9, 2016 at 11:23 am

    Suzi, our son has felt the same as you, and after Sanders lost he reluctantly decided to support Hillary. Now he wants to blow up the Democratic Party and replace it with a much more liberal group. Interesting times we live in, as the old Jewish curse goes.

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  57. nancy said on November 9, 2016 at 11:24 am

    I’m taking input on what the top-10 list looks like. So far I’ve come up with this:

    1) Nominate a 35-year-old right winger to SCOTUS.

    2) Announce the endless inquiry into Hillary Clinton’s “illegal activities,” chaired by AG-nominee R. Giuliani.

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  58. Jean Shaw said on November 9, 2016 at 11:30 am

    I guess I’ve fast-forwarded to acceptance, but it’s a steely, blunt acceptance. I plan to spend some time thinking through my priorities and figuring out where and how I want to contribute my time and energy.

    You can’t wring your hands and roll up your sleeves at the same time….

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  59. Suzanne said on November 9, 2016 at 11:30 am

    Head of Dept of Transportation: Chris Christie

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  60. brian stouder said on November 9, 2016 at 11:36 am

    Suzann for thread win!!

    Aside from that, eight years ago, I was happy happy happy – and a little surprised – when Senator Obama won the presidency…..and then I cam to work, and it was if an early frost had descended upon the place; lots of sullen faces, short, clipped conversations, and so on.

    Then today I come to work, and so far I have not uttered one syllable about the election, while at the same time it’s as if the Super Bowl was played last night, and “our team” won! Speaking only from my point of view, our Indiana Republicans don’t win well, and have no grace when they lose

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  61. brian stouder said on November 9, 2016 at 11:40 am

    Re Nancy’s list:

    Task Kelly Ann Conway to get going on the 2013 White House Correspondant’s Dinner speech RIGHT NOW. (Gotta get permissions from Pink Floyd for ‘Another Brick in the Wall’ lyrics)

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  62. alex said on November 9, 2016 at 11:43 am

    One thing to consider is that the GOP-controlled congress is going to be forced into a position where it has to act. The last eight years has all been about obstructing Obama. I very much doubt they’re going to trash the Iran treaty and go to war like they’ve been talking about. Had anyone other than Obama been president they’d have signed the same goddamned treaty. And with health care, I predict they’ll re-jigger it somehow so that it’s a Republican health care plan that they can take credit for, perhaps even making it better. But that’s just my optimism this morning in the face of such a disappointing election. I guess what gets me the most is that so many people would prefer a president as grotesque and unqualified as the Donald, especially when Obama’s approval rating is at 56 percent. It’s really just a big “fuck you” to the system. And the system is just going to say “fuck you” back. This congress isn’t going to roll back international trade or do anything for blue collar workers. It’s nothing that’s in their power, and it isn’t in Trump’s power to do anything unilaterally. Four years from now, the same angry and powerless pissants who put Trump over the top will still be angry and powerless and here’s betting they’ll vote for change again.

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  63. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 11:49 am

    I just spoke with Little Bird she is quite distraught, and stress exacerbates her condition which is troubling. I said to her that we will always take care of her, and that in the meantime we have to get her as healthy as possible so she can withstand whatever her condition throws at her. I told her that we managed her condition before the ACA when she couldn’t get insurance and we can do it again. I know that we can. It’s too bad it has come to this for the sake of people who may not have family in a position to help them. I hope beyond hope that the Republicans do something for people with pre-existing conditions, since there are so many people out there with them, including many Republicans who aren’t elegible for Medicare yet. We shall see.

    I’m really not as worried that Trump will do things unilaterally. I’m more worried about what the Reublican house, senate and president and a right wing SCOTUS will do together. Trump/Pence will be a rubber stamp for all kinds of shit coming down the pike.

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  64. nancy said on November 9, 2016 at 11:51 am

    I just read another half-assed dashed-off piece about the “elites” who failed to understand “flyover country,” etc. I’d like to flip that a bit: When was the last time people in Flyover America visited Eliteville? I was raised in Ohio, lived 20 years in Indiana and another 12 in Michigan, so I feel I’ve done my time with the people of Flyover. In my affluent community here, people travel a lot — not just to New York, San Francisco and other recreational cities, but to Europe, Asia, South America, etc. But in Indiana that was far rarer, probably because of money but also because of a simple lack of interest. Who cares how they do things in New York? I can go to Chicago, and it’s the same, plus cheaper. Europe is full of rude people, and I don’t speak the languages. We go to Florida, where we have a time-share, and the kids like Disney. And so on.

    If it’s important for elites to get out of their comfort zone, etc., it’s equally important for Real America to see the other side, too.

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  65. CW said on November 9, 2016 at 12:02 pm

    A couple of thoughts:

    What about the corrosive effect of 25 years of relentless, false accusations against Hillary Clinton by the far right? People believe this garbage. She killed Vince Foster! She and Huma are secret lesbians! I had a conversation Sunday with a couple of guys on a golf course, who sincerely believed that Hillary Clinton sat atop a massive drug smuggling and murder ring. I said, how do you suppose that she’s managed to mastermind that for decades and never be arrested or charged, or even have any credible evidence of it come forward? One of the guys mumbled that a lot of palms must have been greased to cover it up. WTF. You can’t fix that level of stupid.

    I recently read a great book called “White Rage,” by Carol Anderson, a history professor at Emory University. Her thesis was that every time since the Civil War that African Americans have made advances they have faced angry white reaction from both the courts and legislatures. It’s hard not to see some of that today at the end of the Obama presidency.

    So, in closing: white men – we’re idiots.

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  66. brian stouder said on November 9, 2016 at 12:05 pm

    it’s equally important for Real America to see the other side, too.


    But Real America will retort with “This is how most people live, and therefore if you understand US – then you understand “real America” – which is more important!

    which is horse hockey.

    HRC – who has literally done the door-to-door work, and read the reports, and worked on policy, and implemented decisions –

    she has a better understanding of the United States of America (top-to-bottom, south to north, empowered and disenfranchised) then President-elect Trump will ever, ever have – even if he actually gives two shits and works to improve in that area (which he won’t)

    In terms of “Real America” – Donald Trump might as well be from Uranus

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  67. Jakash said on November 9, 2016 at 12:14 pm

    I thought after being so relieved by the elections of 2008 and 2012 that the new Democratic “coalition” would hold. But it seems that the turnout just wasn’t there. Damn. If all the people who’d voted for Obama in 2012 voted for Hillary, she’d have won handily. And Obama certainly tried to get them to. I feared all along that the 25 years of attacks on Hillary would be tough to overcome, but still hoped it was possible. It is truly disturbing that this yokel could actually be elected, and last night was even worse than 2004, which was my previous election night nadir. I really couldn’t bear to watch; rather we just checked in every half-hour or so for more grim results and then went to bed while there was still at least a glimmer of hope. But you folks have covered most of the emotional and rational reactions I’ve been experiencing. The thing that pisses me off most, I think, is that the Grand Turtle of Kentucky is going to get away with his outrageously disgusting ploy of stonewalling the duly elected President on the Supreme Court pick, rather than being charged with treason.

    On a lighter note, there was a “CBS This Morning” story about some of the other issues decided yesterday. The chyron read something like “We Go High”: “Some states legalize recreational marijuana.” So, there’s that…

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  68. Peter said on November 9, 2016 at 12:14 pm

    Well, good morning. I was an election judge yesterday and then I had to help out at two sites that had voting problems so I didn’t get home until the wee hours and that was the first I heard about this disaster, and apologies to Joe, but it hit me just as hard as 9/11. And then these random thoughts:

    1. What to compare this to – the pundits are saying it’s like Truman/Dewey; but is this how people felt after Nixon won in ’68? No, maybe this is more along the lines of how southerners felt after Lincoln won in 1860.

    2. Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, W, Warren Harding, even James Freaking Buchanan – step aside. There’s a new No. 1 for Worst President Ever, and he’s going to set the new gold standard.

    3. Months ago I amended my bucket list to live long enough to eat ten pounds of asparagus and then pee on Trump’s grave. I think that’s going to be a bit more complicated to pull off now, and then:

    4. Maybe there’s an opportunity. I could be the architect for The Donald J. Trump Presidential Library and Casino. It will be the biggest and best, and he won’t understand architectural sarcasm, so that could be fun. But I’d have to do it pro-bono, since I’d get stiffed on the fee anyway.

    Well, back to drinking.

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  69. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 12:26 pm

    Jeff(tmmo), I don’t want to fight with you, but I wasn’t talking about electoral politics, I am talking about how you feel if you aren’t a straight white man, or someone who fits in their definition of Real American. It’s hard not to feel like the racists, the bigots, the xenophobes, and the misogynists have taken over after the campaign Trump ran. Everybody who voted for Trump isn’t a bigot, but everybody who voted for Trump decided that bigotry was okay, because the bigotry wasn’t subtext.

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  70. Peter said on November 9, 2016 at 12:46 pm

    I can’t top Suzanne, but how about: Ben Carson, Surgeon General. Or Alex Jones, Ambassador to the Holy See. Or Rush Limbaugh, Chairman, Federal Communications Commission.

    Oh the humanity.

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  71. Joe Kobiela said on November 9, 2016 at 12:50 pm

    Well I just watched Hillarys speech and Obamas speech, hopefully you will listen to what they said and take it to heart, I know for the first time in 8 years I agreed with Obama, and actually got thru one of her speeches. So I could sit here and gloat, but I tried to be a good loser the last two times, and I’m going to try and be as good as a winner this time, won’t rub it in, I hope I can vote the same way in four years if he decides to run.
    Pilot Joe

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  72. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 12:51 pm

    Brian, there was much downballot good news in Washington, though it will be days before we know for sure about some of it. A huge light rail expansion is passing by a margin that’s likely to hold up. A statewide minimum wage increase to $13.50 is way ahead. Despite money thrown at the races by Bill Gates and charter school advocates unhappy with the court’s ruling, all of the incumbent Supreme Court justices defeated their opponents.

    Unfortunately, it looks like Republicans will retain a slight majority in the state senate, where they block any attempt at an income or capital gains tax in order to raise revenue to fund our schools at the level required by the state Supreme Court ruling.

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  73. elaine said on November 9, 2016 at 12:53 pm

    nancy @64 – Amen to that.

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  74. Icarus said on November 9, 2016 at 12:55 pm

    My wife thinks that the last minute email scandal cost her votes. That and good old fashioned voter suppression tactics in the south.


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  75. susan said on November 9, 2016 at 12:57 pm

    Thanks, Pilot Joe. How white of you. Such a mensch.

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  76. Jolene said on November 9, 2016 at 1:00 pm

    In addition to giving to the ACLU and Planned Parenthood, consider the National Resources Defense Fund and other environmental organizations–especially those who focus on legal challenges to environmental degradation. I just heard Paul Ryan talk about what can now be done, and it looks like repealing environmental regulations will be right up there with the 35-year-old Supreme Court justice and investigating Hillary Clinton.

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  77. Peter said on November 9, 2016 at 1:10 pm

    Ooh – Roger Ailes, Chairman EEOC

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  78. Deni Menken said on November 9, 2016 at 1:13 pm

    My daughter zipped down from Chicago last evening with a nice bottle of Champagne. Around midnight one of her friends with an Asian background texted a wry farewell message to all of her chums as she was headed to an internment camp in the morning. We did laugh but then sadly put away the lovely old champagne flutes that my late mother received as a wedding gift and quietly tucked the sugar cubes back in the only-for-company sugar jar. No fizzy celebration for us girls.
    I feel like I did when the ERA was finally steamrollered. A heaviness of loss. Hope once again snatched back. Ugh.

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  79. nancy said on November 9, 2016 at 1:13 pm

    Joe, I’m trying really, really hard to stay in my reporter head today, to be as dispassionate and analytical as I can, so I’m going to be calm and measured here and tell you that your response — that everyone has to be good and accepting and extend the hand of brotherhood and rise above and all that — is going to be a tough sell. Your candidate — I assume he’s your candidate — spent more than a year lying, abusing, insulting and otherwise being a jackass to not just his opponent, but to large swaths of the population. I mentioned my Muslim student earlier? This is a widespread reaction in Metro D today, fear and trembling by American citizens who happen to wear headscarves. As a member of the news media, who has spent my career trying to provide useful information and commentary for less money than an average teacher makes? I for one don’t appreciate those “Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required” T-shirts that got the Trump crowds so amused. As a woman who doesn’t appreciate being kissed by random dudes or having my pussy grabbed or being reduced to an order of fried chicken on some chaw-spittin’ feeb’s back? Let me just say that rising above and walking in the light of love and all that is going to be a tall fucking order for me for a while.

    That said, I’ll go back to working on my story about the fallout. I’m asking calm, balanced questions. I’m exploring future paths for our nation. That is all. Enjoy your airplane, and your freedom, and all that.

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  80. Scout said on November 9, 2016 at 1:21 pm

    9/11 and 11/9 are two dates that will live on in infamy. We slept not a wink last night, the feeling of dread is overwhelming.

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  81. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    I do understand flyover country, or at least the southern version of it. It took me a while to get the huge chip off my shoulder that seems to get attached at birth there. Resentment and distrust of outsiders isn’t new.

    I’ll admit, this feels very personal to me. It’s like being told again that I’m wrong for being who I am, feeling what I feel, thinking the way I do. That was my experience growing up, with parents who weren’t capable of coping with the apple who fell far from the tree and are authoritarian. I know now that their greatest fear was that I would reject them, but what I saw was the anger, and it hurt. So this whole election has been a painful reliving of that, and I grieve.

    And yet I know I am relatively safe. I’m in a blue bubble. I grieve even more for the immigrant, the poor, the people who aren’t the Randian supermen of Paul Ryan’s fantasies, because it’s not just Trump who was elected. Despite the destruction wreaked by Republican economic policies in Kansas and Louisiana, Ryan is ready to apply them on a national scale.

    My daughter is graduating from college in May. This probably substantially hurt her chances of getting a job, because companies pull back in the face of uncertainty. When The ACA is repealed, will she be able to stay on our policy until 26? We can manage, but not everyone can.

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  82. Little Bird said on November 9, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    I’ve reached the crying stage of all this.

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  83. Icarus said on November 9, 2016 at 1:37 pm

    @Peter, can I steal these? If i have the energy I could do a photo gallery….

    I’m struggling to find any positive or ray of hope. All i have so far is that Bush lost the Senate shortly after being sworn in his first term. (Am I remembering that correctly?) Hopefully Trump doesn’t do too much damage before that can happen again?

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  84. Joe Kobiela said on November 9, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    So as I understand, it you don’t agree with the presidents speech?
    Or Hillarys?
    Then what’s your plan? You want him to fail? That’s not what I heard in those conssestion speeches, Yep people said they wanted Obama to fail, and I thought it was wrong and so did every one on this board, Now if you want Trump to fail it makes you no better than those that wanted Obama to fail, True?
    Personally I don’t think I said or wore or agreed with the things you mentioned above, did I or are you just lumping all of Trumps supporters in one bunch. You know the problem with Liberals is you just can’t believe there are people who don’t think your the smartest person in the room, some times your not.
    Take a page from the Presidents speech, you got beat, it happens, pull your self up, dust yourself off, and work on winning the next one.
    Pilot Joe

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  85. Sue said on November 9, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    I’m figuring Scott Walker for Department of Education or Department of the Interior. He’s been a good little soldier, I think he’s expecting a reward.
    If you want to see what might happen in the next four years, look to Wisconsin for the last 6.

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  86. Heather said on November 9, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    I keep trying to find something to make me feel better and it’s not working. Obama is speaking now–he’s very good and comforting; Clinton’s speech was moving and heartbreaking, but their words about never giving up are ringing hollow to me now.

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  87. Heather said on November 9, 2016 at 1:47 pm

    Nobody’s said we want Trump to fail. We’re afraid of his unstable personality and dangerous policies. That’s it.

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  88. Sue said on November 9, 2016 at 1:47 pm

    My donations today have gone to a couple of organizations that support investigative journalism, one in WI and one national. We’re going to need those people.

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  89. Jean Shaw said on November 9, 2016 at 2:01 pm

    Well, a miracle has occurred: I kinda agree with Pilot Joe. Kinda.

    Kids, we got beat. But dammit, my people are tough. I’ve been remembering family stories all morning–stories that go back to before the Civil War. And while we were not on the right side of that particular moment in history, we’ve done some amazing things since. So I fucking refuse to curl up and weep.

    (And I’m laughing at myself for channeling my mother just now. If you didn’t know her well, you’d see a gracious, kind Southern teacher. But once you knew her, you knew what that look in her eye meant … everybody scatter!)

    Ah, Southern Poverty Law Center, I feel some money coming your way from me today.

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  90. Scout said on November 9, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    Joe, seriously, you say you don’t want to gloat. So stop gloating and then dislocating your shoulder patting yourself on the back. Thanks.

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  91. FDChief said on November 9, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    Why the hell should I want a return to the financial regime of 1929? Or the pre-EPA environment of Love Canal? Or the pre-Civil Rights society of open racism and sexism?

    If “wanting Trump to fail” means wanting that agenda to fail, well..you’re damn right I want it to fail. Why would anyone not a two-yacht bankster want that to succeed..?

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  92. Jolene said on November 9, 2016 at 2:14 pm

    Joe, it’s not Trump’s failure that I fear, but his success. I fear that he will succeed in enacting large tax cuts for the very rich, that he will succeed in repealing environmental regulations, that he will succeed in disrupting international alliances, that he will succeed in scuttling the Paris Agreement on climate change, that he will succeed in appointing Supreme Court judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade. There’s no end to the damage his successes could do.

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  93. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 2:19 pm

    The good news is we got in IL is that Tammy Duckworth got elected to the senate. One more woman, that’s good.

    Well Joe, I think you’re gloating, even if you think you’re not. Sorry to hear you voted for Trump, I suspected as much all along. My right wing sister thinks in about a year Trump will be Democrat again. We’ll see.

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  94. jcburns said on November 9, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    No Joe, I don’t want Trump to fail.

    I want him to stop saying racist/sexist things that encourage actual full-time racist/sexists or those who are intolerant of other beliefs. I want him to say “that’s not OK.” I want him to pick judges who respect women’s rights to their own bodies. I want him to act in a way where people of Earth say “those Americans are good people” as opposed to…well, you’ll see what they say.

    That’s for starters.

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  95. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 2:27 pm

    Here’s what’s probably in store for Obamacare http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/trump-win-obamacare-repeal

    Thanks, Joe.

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  96. brian stouder said on November 9, 2016 at 2:30 pm

    Well, Joe – let’s make a deal. Whereas President Obama ran on several big things, including healthcare reform, and whereas when he won, the Democrats had Congress, and whereas the president then spent all his political capital (and his party’s control of congress) getting his agenda through; and whereas President Trump will also arrive with his party firmly in control of both houses of congress – therefore – we can reasonably conclude Trump is a flummoxed fuss-and-feathers only, if he doesn’t accomplish a really big thing or two in his first term, as he’s promised – yes? So for example, that great big wall he’s always promised, should take shape, yes? And – no more Muslims until “we know what the hell is going on” (whatever that means), right? And he must always use the correct propaganda terms, right? (“Islamo-fascists” leaps to mind)

    And, no grabbing Vlad Putin’s cock, when they share a locker room at the next international conference, and feel the need to draw closer, right? And – President Trump can order the IRS to finish their audit, so he can immediately release all his taxes for the past decade or two, right?

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  97. alex said on November 9, 2016 at 2:35 pm

    Well, Joe, you just heard from some of the smartest people in the room. They don’t care for your farts and I don’t either.

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  98. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    Again, Trump is just the symptom. The people in flyover country think the Dems don’t care about them? I’m fucking tired of conservatives who think liberals are the enemy. I’m sick of people who talk about Second Amendment solutions. I.m fed up with people who don’t think they’re racists but just don’t think those people are worth much. I’m appalled by “good” Christians who want to sift through the Bible to find the few slivers they can use to clobber people they don’t like, while ignoring the vast swathes about loving people. I’ve heard hate the sin, love the sinner enough to know it’s about excusing their own bigotry, not about actually loving the other person.

    It’s not about wanting Trump to fail, Joe. Who knows what the fuck Trump even wants to do? He has no coherent policy agenda. It’s about wanting the hate to be beaten back.

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  99. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 2:57 pm

    My daughter under my advisement made an appointment with her primary care physician to see if she can get every possible medical test done before January that she can. That includes a brain scan to make sure she doesn’t have any tumors there, which is not uncommon for her condition. Here’s hoping she can get it all done before it’s too late. Again, thanks Joe.

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  100. Heather said on November 9, 2016 at 3:00 pm

    I was going to get genetic testing for BRCA and some other genes correlated with women’s cancers, but I’m worried laws on privacy and preexisting conditions are out the window too–so I don’t want it on my record. Not doing it now, and hoping this decision won’t end up killing me.

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  101. Jolene said on November 9, 2016 at 3:05 pm

    Imagine how Barack Obama must feel having to hand over the White House to the Birther-in-Chief. Gawd.

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  102. Judybusy said on November 9, 2016 at 3:18 pm

    Joe, I’ll echo what Jolene said at #92. I fear all the hatred he’s stirred up, and the backlash that will now likely rage unabated towards people of color, those with disabilitites, and the LGBTQ folks. How can you think that a man that brags about grabbing women by the pussy and inciting hatred towards large segments of America is possibly qualified? Didn’t that bug you at all? I sincerely want to know how you just shoved all that stuff out of your mind.

    For some reason, what bothers me the most today is the racism. I want to be a better, a more effective ally to people of color. I can give money, but I also want to take action that makes a difference. I had some powerful talks with two black women in my office today and hugged one of the black attorneys and let him know the struggle ain’t over. I also read with second graders at a school with no white children in it on the north side of Minneapolis. The public defender’s office and other county folks have been doing this for years, and joined when I began this job. Doing a tiny bit to offset the awful achievement gap in our schools.

    On Monday, we had our monthly Master Gardener meeting. The speakers were a husband and wife team talking about Latino culture–we do some work with local Latinix (a new term I’ve been seeing around and which the speakers validated) and community gardening. I think I will learn Spanish and volunteer for that project.

    I ask all of you to stay involved, or get involved!

    Thank you for this community.

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  103. Jean Shaw said on November 9, 2016 at 3:20 pm

    Jolene, no kidding.

    And Deborah, good call on getting your daughter to make that appointment.

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  104. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    As Judy Busy said, thank you for this community. I’m bleeding.

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  105. Peter said on November 9, 2016 at 3:31 pm

    If I may rant, what really pisses me off is Michigan. Nancy, how do explain that a state that had a water system go down the crapper due to state GOP dumbasses vote for much much more of the same on a national level? How could they vote for a guy that, had he been in charge, would have cut off the auto industry and let them die? Maybe they should test the water supply in Traverse City and Grand Rapids as well.

    Sure, I can be upset that someone with no manners or class or ethics gets selected over someone who is competent, and while loudly proclaiming to hire the best minds to run the government will instead have government by crony ala Newt, Rudy, Chris, et. al. No, what galls me is that you can bet that the Trump U case will be derailed in the best interest of the government.

    What a sack of crap.

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  106. brian stouder said on November 9, 2016 at 3:35 pm

    Just for the record, let me just bluntly state that I DO want President-elect Trump’s new administration to succeed, as any American would.

    If he keeps us out of war (despite Iranian sailors’ flipping us the bird, or whatever), and if he makes good trade deals, and steers the country’s economic interests such that we gain back industrial manufacturing jobs, and invests in our infrastructure – then so much the better, yes?

    I betcha betcha betcha that he doesn’t run for re-election in 4 years, given his age – but we have lots of other fish to fry between now and then!

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  107. nancy said on November 9, 2016 at 3:38 pm

    The Trump surge came from rural areas, particularly up north, where they feel little connection to Flint and its problems. I guess they all have wells.

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  108. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 3:48 pm

    I’m mad at myself for not knowing better that this was going to happen. I went on a road trip this summer from NM to Chicago across the Great Plains and the Midwest and I saw for myself how devastated small towns were across that region. How could I have turned a blind eye on that, and think that wouldn’t have some effect? I had to get off the interstates in a number of locations to avoid torrential rains and every time I did I saw all of the evidence that things were not good. Also the small town in IL where my husband grew up in across from St Louis where we designed the playground for last summer had been hit hard, we read that it went 67% for Trump. Of course it did. Trump isn’t going to help these people but they don’t know that yet. They will eventually, what will happen then?

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  109. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 3:56 pm

    It’s too soon for a real autopsy of the electio, because exit polls aren’t good enough for the kind of analysis that will be forced upon them by the media the next few days, but my bet is that Trump engaged rural voters in a way that Romney and McCain simply couldn’t. He made them feel important.

    To say it’s about economics is to say that these voters are stupid, and maybe I’m weird, but I think it’s more respectful to call them bigoted than stupid. Bigoted implies that they have agency, that they made a choice that advanced what mattered to them. An economic case implies that they believe an alleged billionaire from New York who lives in a gold-encrusted penthouse and doesn’t care about anyone but himself will help them, and I don’t think they’re that stupid.

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  110. Suzanne said on November 9, 2016 at 4:03 pm

    If Trump brings lots of good jobs to the good old USA, good for him. But at what cost? Hitler made the economy soar, too, for a while. And how? His businesses have mostly failed.

    Yes, the middle has been hollowed out, but some of that is a failure to change with a changing economy. Instead of adapting and figuring out new ways to do things, they just kept waiting for the jobs to come back.

    The big loser in this election is any semblance of facts. You now are free to make your own reality and act on it.

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  111. alex said on November 9, 2016 at 4:07 pm

    Amen, Sherri. There are plenty of people around here who aren’t hurting financially but worry that the world is falling under the control of people they’ve long regarded as their social inferiors and this is a last-ditch effort to postpone the inevitable.

    I went out to lunch with friends and we commiserated. And there was no shortage of people high-fiving and gloating about the election. I heard about a fracas with our waitress before I arrived. She asked everyone why so glum and they said they were disappointed with the election. The waitress said she was very happy about it, to which one of my lunch partners replied “Really? How can you support a man who says he grabs women’s pussies?” She slammed down his glass on the table and was terse and barely hospitable for the duration. I almost stiffed her on my tip, but thought better of it.

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  112. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 4:10 pm

    I see what you mean about calling someone bigoted rather than stupid. It assumes there’s some thought or strategy rather than mindless incoherence. I think the vote for Trump was chaotic and emotional not thoughtful at all.

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  113. alex said on November 9, 2016 at 4:15 pm

    I guess I’ll immerse myself in the Susan Faludi book, finally. My mother already read it. After seeing it on my coffee table, she ordered it online and gave me so much detail about it that I hope it’s not going to spoil it for me. She liked Faludi’s writing and is ordering another one of her books. My parents spend most of their time reading and devouring books these days and are more than happy to have the television off after this horrific election season.

    I’m dreading the return to work tomorrow. I feel physically ill. I’m sure my blood pressure is through the roof despite my medications and it may take a while for it to come down.

    As a minority and as someone who has experienced discrimination firsthand, I find this election extremely haunting and disturbing. Being snubbed by my neighbors on Halloween didn’t upset me this much. I’m terrified that antagonistic, bigoted speech and behavior are going to become the new norm and like I said it’s just making me physically ill.

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  114. CW said on November 9, 2016 at 4:25 pm

    Alex, be well and hopefully we’ll muddle through somehow. It’s little solace, but more Americans voted for Hillary yesterday.

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  115. Dave Bell said on November 9, 2016 at 4:25 pm

    I think what the voters did yesterday was akin to what Minnesota did in ’08 when they wanted real change. They voted in Jesse Ventura as governor.

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  116. Dorothy said on November 9, 2016 at 4:27 pm

    My cousin’s daughter is going to classes in Pittsburgh – not sure what campus. She heard a male student say today as she walked by “Trump won so I’m gonna grab all the pussies I want!”

    That’s just one of the things we despise about Trump, Joe. We could go on and on but I think you should be able to figure out the rest, what with so many people chiming in here today.

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  117. adrianne said on November 9, 2016 at 4:31 pm

    Deborah, you speak the truth! Alas, the evidence was all around us, but the very poor job done by pollsters this season obscured the anger.

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  118. Judybusy said on November 9, 2016 at 4:39 pm

    Dave Bell, Ventura was elected in 1998. I lived here then, and thought it would be a disaster. Surprisingly, it wasn’t. He was more fiscally irresponsible than I would have liked–he gave away all the state surplus to taxpayers, so we lost a safety cushion we really could’ve used later. He is socially pretty liberal, so there wasn’t that nonsense.

    Dorothy, that’s just terrible. A couple friends have posted pics of Nazi flags flown: one in San Francisco, and one in a suburb here. Trump has created this environment where it’s acceptable to openly hate and persecute.

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  119. Jolene said on November 9, 2016 at 4:56 pm

    The idea that Trump went to Michigan’s Upper Peninsula seeking support is a reflection of the deep cynicism of his campaign. When I saw, over the weekend, that he had gone to the Minnesota Iron Range, I just shook my head. Before somebody told him to go there and make a speech, he had no idea the Minnesota Iron Range existed.

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  120. Bitter Scribe said on November 9, 2016 at 4:59 pm

    Trump has gone from joke, to sick joke, to black humor, to horror. And it’s a nightmare we can’t awaken from.

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  121. Little Bird said on November 9, 2016 at 5:04 pm

    One bit of good news; a friend of mine is legally able to officiate marriages. She thinks that while it might be possible that same sex marriages will become something that can’t be done in the very near future, it’ll be harder to void the ones already existing. So to that end she will perform weddings, for free. Just get get her the bus ticket.

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  122. Jakash said on November 9, 2016 at 5:08 pm

    I suppose the tallies are incomplete (I’m getting this from Wikipedia) but Rump currently has less votes than either McCain or Romney got. So does HILLARY. That is, as of now, she’d have lost the popular vote to either McCain or Romney.

    The Republicans voted for the “Republican” candidate. Despite what we’d been led to believe about “Never Trump,” that’s certainly not unusual. The problem is that the Democrats did not vote for the Democrat the way they did for Obama. Doesn’t seem much more complicated than that, to me. The “independent” vote and third-party candidates surely factored in, but the millennials and folks bamboozled by the email nonsense are what cost her the election, as much as those folks who managed to see past Rump’s many, many flaws and check the box next to the R. I’m very upset about this, don’t get me wrong, but let she or he who’s never voted for a Democrat just BECAUSE they were a Democrat cast the first stone. If one is an anti-abortion, small government, 2nd-Amendment fetishist, it’s not totally voting against one’s interests to try to stop the election of Hillary, whatever the flaws of the guy standing in the way. Do I think it’s disgusting that anybody would vote for that particular guy for any reason? You betcha! Do I think that makes all the folks who voted for him racists and misogynists in their own lives? No.

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  123. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 5:32 pm

    Look, there but by the grace of God go I. I grew up in a lower middle class family, we moved to Miami, FL from Iowa because my dad had served in the Caribbean during WWII, and fell in love with the tropics. My mother was from NW MO and my father was from SW IA when they met. They got married in 1944, when my mother was in her early thirties and my sister was born in 1949, I was born in 1950. My parents had lived in Green Cove Springs, FL before we were born when my Dad was still in the Navy, but my parents went back to the Midwest to raise a family. After we were born in IA my parents moved to Miami because my father really wanted to live in that climate. My mother was unhappy there which telegraphed to me and my sister. We were raised in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church and both my sister and I ended up going to one of their colleges in Nebraska. Our mother died when I was 14 and my sister was 15 which had a huge influence on us. Somehow, probably because I ended up working in St. Louis for an Architecture firm I did become “worldly wise” I became curious about life outside my immediate surroundings. I started to travel for work and realized my views were not the only ones out there. I came to this way later in life than many people do so it was a bomb that dropped on me. I’m putting this here because I realize that people have many different paths through their lives and some have way farther to grow in experiences than others. I was one of those people. I still have a long way to go. My sister is very different than me, even though she lived through the exact same experiences. Go figure?

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  124. Connie said on November 9, 2016 at 5:38 pm

    So Joe K always trashes us. But what did we do that made Cooz come out of hiding to trash us.

    My township supervisor boss (indiana, think mayor)) lost his election, so new boss for me.

    Lisa Brown got re–elected county clerk. My daughter quoted me on facebook as saying all Women in Michigan vote for Lisa Brown. All the county voters at work said of course, even the men. Nobody had to ask who she was. Lisa was my state rep a few years ago when she was punished by house leadership for saying the word vagina on the house floor. The conversation was about those vaginal sonar transduser thing that so many states were trying to pass laws requiring to make abortion even more difficult.

    Word is Macomb county gave Michigan to Trump. Macomb is just north of mine and Nancy’s suburban counties. I was surprised mine went for Clinton.

    I am in a bad mood. I have been filled with despair since the Syrian refuge crisis began. I am sad and disappointed, but nowhere near as angry as so many of you seemed to be. I am going to grin and bear it and to keep working on keeping my politics off my facebook page, which I failed yesterday when I shared the I’m with her photo. And like some of you I would happily go full proressive, left of the,Dems. Heck, I’m more likely a Socialist.

    Forget climate change. My biggest fear is that he would be willing to push the button.

    Plus My life is nuts. I am perfectly healthy, but I am seeing two different physical therapists, specialists, at two different buildings for two unrelated things. Plus today I went to the dentist.

    My new library building opens on Jan 17. I was just there to admire but not walk on the new high tech linoleum flooring going in several back of house spaces. Moving a library is complicated.

    http://www.commercelibrary.info/new_library Feel free to admire my in process baby.

    And yes Suzanne wins.

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  125. Connie said on November 9, 2016 at 5:46 pm

    Judybusy I also lived in Minnesota when Ventura was elected. I remember how shocked my office gang was the next morning, far more so than my cohort of Hillary supporting librarians. We were more resigned this morning. (We’re librarians of course we’re for Hillary).

    And if I still lived in Indiana all of my candidates would have lost.

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  126. Sue said on November 9, 2016 at 5:49 pm

    I wonder:
    Now that we have a president who won’t take our guns away, how is the NRA going to keep the extremely lucrative ‘buy lots of guns’n’ammo before it’s too late’ thing going? Slave uprising fears maybe?
    Has anyone told Melania yet that if Donald dies her son does not inherit the crown?

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  127. Colleen said on November 9, 2016 at 5:51 pm

    “It’s about wanting the hate to be beaten back.”


    My aunt (who I adore)posted something on FB about “taking our country back”. From whom? The coloreds? The homos? The A-rabs? Who had our country that it needed taking back?

    And Nance, couldn’t agree with you more about people in flyover country needing to get out more. The big city needs to understand you? Well you need to have a little understanding about the city. Of course, these are people who are afraid of going into downtown Fort Wayne, so setting them loose in NYC isn’t going to happen.

    The big manufacturing jobs that allowed a high school graduate to go in the day after graduation and get a job that allowed for a nice house, two new cars every few years, and a weekend place at The Lake AREN’T COMING BACK. No matter what our President-elect says he’s going to do.

    I think what pisses me off the most is that by voting for Trump, all of those people said his crass, bigoted, sexist ways were just okayfine with them.

    I can’t believe there won’t be some kind of backlash to his attempt to roll back the ACA. 20 million people are a lot to kick off health insurance.

    I’m rambling. I’d be lying if I didn’t admit to being pretty nervous about where the next four years are going to take us.

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  128. David C. said on November 9, 2016 at 6:35 pm

    I feel like Nellie Bly at the asylum today.

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  129. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 6:40 pm

    Jakash, maybe they aren’t all racists and misogynists. What I can say is that they think it’s okay to be racist and misogynist. As I said, the racism and bigots and misogyny wasn’t subtext in the Trump campaign, it was right out there in the open. Millions of people said, that’s okay by me. Millions of them call themselves evangelical Christians, too.

    It hurts me as a women that the people who voted for Trump don’t think his misogyny mattered, because it’s a message to me that they don’t think women matter enough. It hurts me as a human being that he could call Mexicans rapists, and demonize immigrants, and mock a disabled reporter, and people didn’t think that mattered because they didn’t think those people mattered enough.

    This wasn’t about a disagreement over political philosophy. It was a fundamental difference in how to treat people.

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  130. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 6:54 pm

    Seattle promises to remain a sanctuary city: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-will-remain-sanctuary-city-for-immigrants-despite-trump-presidency-mayor-says/

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  131. Jeff Borden said on November 9, 2016 at 7:23 pm

    When I woke up around 5 a.m., my wife was sobbing in bed. We fell asleep when the returns were grim, but my confidence that California and other Western states would turn the tide was intact. She had turned on the radio because the curiosity was killing her. She has not wept like this since her mom died. I never want to feel like this again. And I’m a white male. . .I am golden.

    At 65, I have come to the painful conclusion that I will not live to see racial and social justice in America. Maybe it was always an illusion, but damn, after President Obama was elected I had reason to hope. But that ugly monster never went away. It stayed in the shadows and got bigger and fatter and bolder until it found someone to take it off the leash. Maybe the orange ape will be a one-termer. Maybe not. But our society has suffered a setback that will take a long time to overcome again.

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  132. Jakash said on November 9, 2016 at 7:55 pm

    I apologize for feeling compelled to respond, Sherri, as I certainly don’t like arguing with you, and I’m certainly disgusted by the same things that you are when it comes to Rump. But when about half of the voters, including many women and Hispanics, voted for the guy, I just think there’s more to it than that.

    I’m not attempting to say that Bill Clinton and Rump are the same or promote a false equivalency. There are many big differences. But I’d be hard pressed not to admit that Bill had more than a streak of misogyny and was clearly a philanderer. When I supported him, was it because I didn’t “think his misogyny mattered?” No. Was it because I disrespected women, starting with his treatment of Hillary, FWIW, or thought women don’t matter enough? No. It was because, flawed as he was, he represented the best chance at enacting the policies that I thought were good for the country. I disagree vehemently with those who think Rump’s “leadership” will be good for the country. In fact, as for him being President, I’m as outraged by his incompetence and ignorance of the issues as I am about his disgusting behavior. But I recognize that sometimes I myself have ignored unseemly behavior in supporting somebody who represented the policies I was for.

    Democratic governor Rod Blagoevich won reelection in Illinois in 2006 by an 11% margin even though plenty of folks assumed he was crooked and would be indicted at some point. (Which he was, before serving out the term, of course.) It’s not just Republicans who can stick their heads in the sand and ignore what they choose to ignore in pursuit of a big win.

    I realize we’re all reeling today and want to paint with a broad brush. And, as I was afraid of months ago, I think this election has proven — remarkably, given the treatment Obama has received — that sexism is a bigger barrier to the Presidency than racism. But I just don’t think the basket of deplorables is as big as you seem to, even though the number willing to look the other way is frightening, indeed.

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  133. Sherri said on November 9, 2016 at 8:00 pm

    This Washington wanted no part of Trumpism: http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/there-wasnt-a-trump-effect-in-washington/

    I send you these links not to brag about my home, but to remind you that there are places in this country that do reject Trump’s call. The Washington branch of the ACLU is a strong one, building a strong bench for the national org. We’re returning a veteran Senator to Congress in Patty Murray, and we elected an Indian-American progressive to Congress in Pramila Jayapal.

    Step by step. As the late great Miss Molly said, freedom fighters don’t always win, but they’re always right.

    Bigotry is always poisonous, even to the people who commit it.

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  134. Charlotte said on November 9, 2016 at 8:09 pm

    I was so upset I finally just closed the computer and drove down to Yellowstone to hang out with the bison. And then cried as I considered that Sarah Palin’s name is being bandied about as Sec of the Interior — the woman who authorized the state of Alaska to kill all the wolves from planes. And the reno’s they’re doing on the Mammoth hotel, — all I could see was a huge gold Drumpf piece of garbage in its place.

    A friend posted on FB this morning that her 18 year old daughter, who has Down Syndrome, was in tears this morning asking if this means it’s going to be “like in the olden days when they sent people like me away.”

    And I blew the fuck up at two guys chatting in the coffee shop as if this was just a normal election, not the nation deciding that sticking it to a highly competent, intelligent, deeply prepared woman was SO MUCH FUN that they’d elect an authoritarian Fascist.

    And then I texted my Muslim friend and told her that I’d join her on the barricades with my “mazel tov” cocktails when they try to make her wear a crescent badge.

    And then I made a plan to stay healthy, since I”m going to lose my health care and it’s a long way to 65 (if Drumpf doesn’t manage to destroy Medicare before I get there).

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  135. Heather said on November 9, 2016 at 8:36 pm

    I have been following a journalist on Twitter who writes about authoritarian regimes. She predicted this a year ago and predicts worse to come. It sounds extreme, but isn’t Trump extreme, and aren’t a lot of his followers? I share her feed here so you can choose to decide if you want to know what might be coming down the pike: https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior

    On the other hand there is a huge protest going on right now in downtown Chicago that is making me feel better. I feel lucky to live in such a liberal city and fearful for those members of minority or marginalized groups who are in redder spaces. I also read that transgender support groups are reporting a rash of suicides already.

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  136. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 9:12 pm

    Yes, Heather there is indeed a huge protest going on in Chicago. My husband came home from his teaching gig and told me there were a bunch of young people that completely shut down traffic on Mich Ave. I had awakened from a nap because I didn’t get much sleep last night so I didn’t know anything about it. My husband said the people were shouting “not my president”. I don’t know anymore than that about it.

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  137. Deborah said on November 9, 2016 at 9:52 pm

    Jakash, when I was active in NOW way back in the 70s after I had graduated from college we knew that many women went against their own best interest because they were appeasing the men in their lives, fathers and husbands or boyfriends. It’s well documented that people do this, they try to identify with the winning team even if it means they lose big time. So when women voted for Trump it didn’t surprise me, it saddens me a great deal though.

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